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PostSubject: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat 21 Mar - 5:29

What did everything think of this episode? I liked it. Not as good as episodes 15 and 16

Pros:
ROLLING HEART VIBRATION
TUXEDO LA SMOKING BOMBER
Momoko
Artemis returns this episode (good. I was kinda getting concerned)
Esmeraude's voice is amazing
The Shitennou's return
Artemis attacking the cameraman
And that brief scene with Rubeus and Calaveras kinda makes me ship them

Cons;
Yet again Moon Pride interrupts an emotional moment
Usagi looking kinda weird in some scenes
Rubeus become Captain Obvious
And Minako's henshin pen became GIGANTIC in one scene

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat 21 Mar - 9:35

I was glad they actually used Usagi's correct wand this time.  I guess they've learned their lesson after the major backlash they got from the last episode for using the wrong wand.  I loved the scenes with Usagi and Naru and Naru and Umino trying to cheer Usagi up.   It was great to see some bonding scenes between Usagi and her classmates.   It gave me the nostalgic feels from the old anime with that moment.  I loved finally seeing Rolling Heart Vibration which looked cool seeing in animation form finally and I loved that we got to see Tuxedo Mask finally get his own attack with Tuxedo La Smoking Bomber!   I liked seeing Momoko but I wish they had given her some actual lines in this episode and a scene or two where they show her interacting with Chibi-usa.  I did love though that they showed Asanuma and Kotono being concerned about Makoto and Rei.  It's nice knowing that the other Sailor Soldiers have people from their ordinary lives who are concerned about them too.   I also liked the scene where Rubeus declares he's going to expose Wiseman's fraud one day.  It made it seem more like Rubeus actually cares about what's going on to his family and isn't just some evil jerk like in the old anime.  Making things look gigantic seems to be the trend with this episode as they made Tuxeod Mask's mask look randomly really big in one scene too.  All together I really enjoyed this week's episode and I'm really looking forward to seeing Pluto in action next time!  And I'm glad we only have to wait two weeks for Pluto instead of three!
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat 21 Mar - 10:18






Basically how I felt with today's episode. While this episode flowed better than the last episode. My main gripe is really with the original material the manga. It took them this long to question Chibiusa? After losing three of their friends. This should have happened once Mars was kidnapped. Because she got kidnapped right after Chibiusa appeared. This didn't raise a flag with anyone right away? Yes they were wondering if Chibiusa was an enemy, but they should have demanded answers right away.And yes she is a little girl, but people's lives are on the line.  ALSO Mamoru saw Chibiusa had a jewel and a key. He pays more attention to the key than the jewel? The jewel looks exactly the Silver Crystal. Just ughhhh the manga is filled with all these problems. If I'm wrong here about the manga feel to correct me. Crystal probably screw up some where with the story. 

Rant done

Venus rocked in this episode! It was nice to see her step up to the plate. Her attack looked great! One of the best attacks we had so far despite them keeping it simple. Also yay! Mamoru got his attack and they finally mention his powers. Took them long enough. Yay for the Shitennou appearing even though in the Dark Kingdom arc it looked they were compeltly gone and left no trace!

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat 21 Mar - 10:37

The manga can be a bit silly in its logic at times, like how everyone in the Black Moon arc seems to believe in pseudoscience.  Like I can accept that some people would buy into channeling but the manga acts like channeling is a huge worldwide craze.  It was the same thing with dowsing and crop circles. You'd think Ami at least would be a bit more skeptical about it considering she's supposed to be this science-minded genius.  And you'd think they would figure out by now that these mass pseudoscience crazes are all traps by the enemy.  It's not like the Black Moon is completely going out of their way to hide themselves.
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat 21 Mar - 10:47

Well in the manga they hide their black moon mark from people. Crystal just leaves them on there. It's like they think we're dumb wouldn't be able to figure out it's the enemy in disguise or something. 

I think the whole channeling craze comes from the time Sailor Moon was written. I think back in the 90s fortune telling was a big thing. Crystal is showing us that Sailor Moon has not age well. At least in PGSM they updated things like the girls going to a costume party instead of a ball and having a karaoke place instead of an arcade. The only thing Crystal has updated were the computers. They show DVDs, but today people stream things. Why would a channeling thing be on a DVD? Thats something Umino should have been streaming.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat 21 Mar - 11:48

Granted, I haven't seen the episode (I'll be doing that later today with a huge bowl of popcorn) but I'd like to defend the manga for a moment.

Keep in mind, despite practically being a worshipper of the manga, I will be the first to admit that it has fault and major ones at that. The pacing can be all over the place and characters can come and go without much warning. That being said, it is a product of its time.

Like Yami mentioned, fortune telling was huge in the 90's so it made its way into Sailor Moon, much like the Dark Kingdom stuff with the VHS's. Does this make Sailor Moon bad? Of course not. It's just a product of its time. Likewise, I forgive it for its problematic content like Mamoru kissing a drunk Usagi without consent. It's a bad sequence, but it's much easier to forgive knowing it was written nearly 25 years ago. There's a scene in the Ranma 1/2 manga, a manga which stars a character who transforms his gender constantly, where the title character says that he's going to "fix" a person who he believes to be a girl attracted to other girls. I adore Ranma 1/2 and the scene doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the series but it's something to acknowledge. (On a side note, I highly respect Viz Media for keeping the dialogue as it was rather than censoring it.)

Again, as Yami was saying, it was up to Toei to update some of the content of Sailor Moon for this new adaptation. They have gotten some things right but sometimes it's laughable. Sure the VHS's were turned to DVD's but why not take it a step further and make it a Netflix-like service? It would have hardly altered the story but made it more relatable. If Ranma 1/2 was getting remade today, I would expect that homophobic scene to be removed or altered. I expected Sailor Moon Crystal to be better but it seems to have failed in this regard.

Well, I've talked so much about it, I better actually watch the dang thing before I continue to comment on it.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat 21 Mar - 12:13

Not much could be said for this episode. I think it's a sad day when one of our good points is that Toei doesn't mess up what wand Sailor Moon is supposed to be using.

I wish they had kept Venus defeating Calaveras' power on her own instead of being rescued by Moon. I haven't reread the manga but I'm pretty sure she freed herself and retaliated before Moon even got there. It showed that Venus was stronger/more capable than the others and once again emphasized her leader status. But I feel like Crystal is so afraid to put any other senshi in the spotlight and needs Moon to appear like the strongest/most special one so they had her rescue Venus. This was a lot like the time they took away Beryl's kill from Venus and gave it to Moon. Venus' ability to not get trapped and kidnapped like the others was supposed to be special, and Moon was supposed to get scared that she'll lose Venus too but it would turn out she didn't because Venus isn't as easily defeated. So that part disappointed me.

Also I could have misremembered but I could have sworn we saw a "channeling" of Mercury, Mars, and Jupiter too (was that supposed to happen instead of Petz, Koan and Berthier during the showdown?)

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat 21 Mar - 14:44

There is a scene with Calaveras channeling the Soldiers in the manga that was cut out but Sailor Moon actually is the one who kills Calaveras in the manga.  I just checked my copy of it just now.  In fairness to the technology, DVD rental shops and arcades are a lot more popular in Japan than they are in America so it makes sense to keep them in Crystal too.
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat 21 Mar - 15:27

I'm sure they are, but streaming is huge in Japan as well. To me it didn't make sense for Umino to have that channeling on DVD. To me it something you would see on TV or online.


Despite Venus being saved by Moon I feel like this episode was better paced than the last episode. Plus Venus's attack is the best looking Crystal attack.  It would been nice if Venus saved herself, but I did like her "youre late" line.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat 21 Mar - 16:47

I liked it overall, but I agree it wasn't as strong as the Mars and Mercury, though definitely better paced than last time.
I enjoyed how balanced everyone's dialogue was too (except Zoisite :-P ). 
Also, Momo-chan!!!!!!!!!

To contribute to some of the prior discussion, I think some of the scenes, characters, and plot points being changed or dropped from the manga are them trying to create some hybrid anime/manga story with PGSM and Musical easter eggs, which is why Sailor Moon gets to defeat everyone e.g. However, I feel this is a detriment to the story instead of something that's appeasing fans of the original material.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat 21 Mar - 20:06

SailorKittyElyon wrote:
Pros:
ROLLING HEART VIBRATION
TUXEDO LA SMOKING BOMBER
Momoko
Artemis returns this episode (good. I was kinda getting concerned)
Esmeraude's voice is amazing
The Shitennou's return
And that brief scene with Rubeus and Calaveras kinda makes me ship them
Yes YES YESSSS!!!

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat 21 Mar - 21:07

Why did Toei make Tuxedo La Smoking Bomber look like a Kamehameha Wave attack in Crystal?
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat 21 Mar - 21:43

I finally watched the episode! THAT'S RIGHT, FOLKS. IT'S TIME FOR THE...


Choo... choo?

Wait, what do you mean the Sailor Moon Crystal Hate Train is on hiatus? Does that mean the show is finally good? Well... not exactly.

This week's episode was good for a Sailor Moon Crystal episode. There was nothing particularly insulting. It's sad to see that the animation is so stiff, especially for moments like when Chibi-usa reacted to the Black Moon crystal. It's hard to explain why the manga for all of its awkward art at least gets reactions and drama right.

Image!:
 

The scene is terrifying and rightly so. In Crystal, it's just awkward and stiff. Granted, Chibi-usa's actress did what she could to sell the scene, but the near slideshow animation just doesn't help. 

They did change A LOT from the manga in this episode and not for the better. Thank goodness we have missdream.org. I've usually read along with the manga for these episodes but I've lent them out to a friend so I haven't recently.

Why the heck did they leave the Black Moon mark on the Ayakashi Sisters' heads for all of the scenes they were in. It didn't make any sense. It's an immediate tip as to who they are. I used to think the soldiers were idiots for leaving Chibi-usa alone all the time, but the Black Moon clan must be more idiotic to literally leave their trademark stuck on their faces. No wonder they couldn't find "Rabbit."

Also, sorry Toei but the gemstones that housed the Four Generals TURNED TO DUST IN THIS VERSION. How does Mamoru still have them in his possession? I literally saw a comment on Crunchyroll defending this by saying that he was channeling their spirits through similar looking gem stones but I'm not buying it. At least it wasn't as moronic as the Redditor who defended a frame in which Sailor Venus suddenly morphed into Sailor V by saying we were seeing it from Sailor Moon's point of view. It's hilarious to see how far people will go to defend a multi-million dollar company.

Other Image!:
 

I'd also like to see someone try to explain why Toei cut this scene. In the manga, the three other sisters appear in place of the illusion of the soldiers. It's odd that they cut this part.

As I noted in my previous comment, Sailor Moon Crystal should have been an adaptation that fixed the issues the manga had. Even as an avid near worshipper of the manga, I still will admit that it has faults. It's a shame we couldn't have seen a better realization of it.

On a side note, I laughed very hard at Artemis full on attacking that camera man. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat 21 Mar - 23:11

I loved Artemis attacking the cameraman. 

I was happy to see him being used in Crystal. Thus far he hasn't really done much or not around at all in the past episodes. It makes me sad.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sun 22 Mar - 3:45

@Neon Genesis wrote:
There is a scene with Calaveras channeling the Soldiers in the manga that was cut out but Sailor Moon actually is the one who kills Calaveras in the manga.  I just checked my copy of it just now.  In fairness to the technology, DVD rental shops and arcades are a lot more popular in Japan than they are in America so it makes sense to keep them in Crystal too.

I know Moon was the one who killed all the Ayakashi sisters in the manga. My point was that usually by that point she's too late and her corresponding senshi is trapped in an attack and taken anyway, but it did not happen with Venus because she freed herself and retaliated. Hence my comment about Moon coming in later terrified that Venus had been taken, but she hasn't been.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sun 22 Mar - 9:58

@Sailor CJ wrote:
Also, sorry Toei but the gemstones that housed the Four Generals TURNED TO DUST IN THIS VERSION. How does Mamoru still have them in his possession? I literally saw a comment on Crunchyroll defending this by saying that he was channeling their spirits through similar looking gem stones but I'm not buying it. At least it wasn't as moronic as the Redditor who defended a frame in which Sailor Venus suddenly morphed into Sailor V by saying we were seeing it from Sailor Moon's point of view. It's hilarious to see how far people will go to defend a multi-million dollar company.
In fact, the gemstones of the Four Generals turned to dust in the manga too.

This is not so clear in the manga, but it shows the gemstones breaking and disappearing from from the hands of Mamoru in chapter 13.
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sun 22 Mar - 11:29

@Konja8 wrote:
@Sailor CJ wrote:
Also, sorry Toei but the gemstones that housed the Four Generals TURNED TO DUST IN THIS VERSION. How does Mamoru still have them in his possession? I literally saw a comment on Crunchyroll defending this by saying that he was channeling their spirits through similar looking gem stones but I'm not buying it. At least it wasn't as moronic as the Redditor who defended a frame in which Sailor Venus suddenly morphed into Sailor V by saying we were seeing it from Sailor Moon's point of view. It's hilarious to see how far people will go to defend a multi-million dollar company.
In fact, the gemstones of the Four Generals turned to dust in the manga too.

This is not so clear in the manga, but it shows the gemstones breaking and disappearing from from the hands of Mamoru in chapter 13.
Huh. Would you look at that.

Glorious Correction Image:
 
Whelp, I was wrong. That was totally in the original manga.

I still stand by my statement though that Sailor Moon Crystal should have made efforts to correct these changes. A quick second or two shot of Mamoru opening up a case of newly purchased gems might have solved this issue. Heck, there could have been many subtle changes that could have fleshed out the story. Ah well I suppose.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sun 22 Mar - 16:39

I hope Toei does the Mamoru and Usagi scene right next episode and doesn't animate it to look like Mamoru forced her. 

Spoiler:
 

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sun 22 Mar - 16:42

@Sailor Lily wrote:
I hope Toei does the Mamoru and Usagi scene right next episode and doesn't animate it to look like Mamoru forced her. 

Spoiler:
 
What kitchen floor scene?

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sun 22 Mar - 16:46

SailorKittyElyon wrote:
@Sailor Lily wrote:
I hope Toei does the Mamoru and Usagi scene right next episode and doesn't animate it to look like Mamoru forced her. 

Spoiler:
 
What kitchen floor scene?
Spoiler:
 

Enough said.  :bunnynarroweye

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sun 22 Mar - 16:53

@Sailor Lily wrote:
SailorKittyElyon wrote:
@Sailor Lily wrote:
I hope Toei does the Mamoru and Usagi scene right next episode and doesn't animate it to look like Mamoru forced her. 

Spoiler:
 
What kitchen floor scene?
Spoiler:
 

Enough said.  :bunnynarroweye
Oh, that scene


But weren't they in Mamoru's bedroom when that happened?

I think i might stay off Tumblr for a week, because i have a feeling people won't shut up about it

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sun 22 Mar - 20:15

^tumblr is toxic. It should be avoided at all costs

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Mon 23 Mar - 13:17

I JUST watched it so I'm not reading comments on here until after I've posted this. My apologies if I glaze over points that have already been made.

So, anyone else bust out laughing when Wiseman started speaking? Probably not.. I don't know why but his squeaky voice just got to me and I couldn't take him seriously AT ALL. I don't recall him having that same reaction from me in the other episodes. Maybe I wasn't as attentive?

Rolling Heart Vibration was pretty sweet, even though it was useless, but the animation was beautiful.
Tuxedo Kamen and his Smoking Bomber, daaaaang! I love that he is actually capable of being this powerful fighter. Not just throwing roses at people and causing less damage than a paper cut. 

Rubeus when he got smacked by the cane ... "You've injured me."

VERY accurate response there, haha, this made me giggle as well. It was just so ..idk.. obvious?

This may be because of my bias and initial hatred of Chibi-Usa from the old anime, but once again I was becoming annoyed with her. Always dodging questions from the people SHE went to to get help. However, at the end she made up for it by finally opening up. So, the crystal version of her is way better than the classic version by far. I don't include the manga because that's my favorite version of Sailor Moon no matter what but it's been a while since I've read them. 

This episode I feel had a better pace than the others, and I liked that they brought in the background characters more (Naru & Umino), especially Chibi-Usa's friend from school! Mars and Jupiter being missed by their friends was also heartwarming, just shows that Usagi isn't the ONLY one with people who care about her. Rubeus not trusting Wiseman and wanting to expose him was a breath of fresh air. These villains aren't just mindless subordinates following every order. They're intelligent and know what their true mission is, but their Prince seems to be losing his way. 

So far I've liked the Black Moon arc better than the first one, major improvements have been made save for a few weird animated moments but we're always gonna get those. Plus, we get Pluto in the next episode! She looks awesome from the previews I've seen, think I'm gonna have to blow off the dust off my mangas and re-read this one so I can really notice any changes that occur in the next episode.


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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Mon 23 Mar - 16:48

Yeah, this kind of in fighting between the Black Moon family is what we needed with the Shittennou in the first arc.  I also agree about the criticism of Wiseman's voice.  His voice was a lot more frightening and actually evil sounding in the old anime.  I guess they felt they had to go in this radically opposite direction with Wiseman after some of the flack they got for Metalia's wonky voice in the first arc.  I just don't know why Toei can't seem to pull off the voices of these ominous mystical forces bad guy characters like they were able to with the original series.
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Mon 23 Mar - 16:52

@swiggymoon wrote:


Rubeus when he got smacked by the cane ... "You've injured me."

VERY accurate response there, haha, this made me giggle as well. It was just so ..idk.. obvious?
OMG i forgot about that part! Rubeus had become Captain Obvious

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]   Tue 24 Mar - 21:58

What I liked:
Chibiusa freaking out about the earing+momo's appearance
Umino and Naru's involvement and noticing Usagi's change
Mamoru talking with the shinttouu-yes there's a plot hole considering the gems broke in the first arc but that plot hole has been around since the original chapters of the manga
Minor characters going to investigate the channeling session because of the disappearances-thought for sure that would have been overlooked
They kept the channeling thing thank goodness I thought for sure that would have been altered
Artemis knocking out the camera nice addition
ROLLING HEART VIBRATION BETTER LATE THEN NEVER
TUXEDO LA SMOKING BOMBER YAY HE'S GOT A POWER WEE
Looks like toei got the correct wand down for her attack this time.

Cons
Why did the channeling session take place outside instead of an auditorium? Easier to animate. (Pfffft)
Why was the Venus star rod so dang huge? You could use that as a melee weapon!
No ghosts of the other senshi getting hurt to help manipulate Venus's mindset? Aww. I always liked that dark turn
Why did rubis go "oh you injured me" instead of his famous "You've damaged my BEAUTIFUL FACE!"?
If sailor moon just threw her tiara, why is it still on her head?
Animation still sucks. We still got uneven chins and huge eyes. At least this episode seems to have less of that. 

All and all, they are seriously handling the black moon arc of the manga to a T, even the cutoffs are the same as the chapters. I'm really enjoying myself so far.

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SMC Episode 18 Discussion [Spoilers]

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