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 [Theory] Black Moon Clan, Shitennou, and Amazon Quartet

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east02west
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PostSubject: [Theory] Black Moon Clan, Shitennou, and Amazon Quartet   Fri 8 May - 23:03

I don't recall much about the Black Moon clan's origins, but it is my understanding that they're humans who
rebelled against the restored sovereign rule of the White Moon clan, who under the influence of Wiseman (Who had been previously banished.) seek to overthrow Crystal Tokyo.

Any way, perhaps it's the standard arc storyline which Naoko repeats throughout the series, however I was wondering if perhaps they were to be seen as corrupted forms of the generals born into the Crystal Tokyo of the 30th century. Not only are both named after precious stones, but they each correspond to one another's color scheme.

I know that we see Mamoru consulting with the Shitennou to which he gains access to his power, but it seems curious that he was the only one to truly be a match for Rubeus and Esmaraude when they attacked (For that matter, not even the inner senshi were matches for the Ayakashi sisters...). You likewise (with the exception of Rubeus) do have a bit of correspondence between the figures on the basis of each being royalty.

Now onto the Amazoness Quartet.

In the Dreams Arc we once again see the Shitennou consulted when Mamoru is ill, but if memory serves, with the awakening of the Golden Kingdom and the introduction of the Amazoness Quartet, this is the last time we ever hear of the Shitennou.

Is it possible that the Amazoness Quartet are the senshi forms of King Endymion's guard as inherited by the first daughter of the Moon and Earth. A daughter born of the Silver and Gold Crystals by means of physical generation as opposed to the virginal manner that Usagi was. Is it possible that the reason that ChibiUsa has yet to actualize her potential, is because she is destined to wield the ultimate power of both crystals in the future when she weds Helios (In my head canon he is the Priestly form of Endymion.)? After all, it does seem odd that four earthlings from the Amazon would randomly turn out to be princesses of their own planets/asteroids.

Let me know what you think of my theory.
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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Black Moon Clan, Shitennou, and Amazon Quartet   Sat 9 May - 16:11

Hey east02west! We like to keep religion off of the boards so please make sure your well wishes are not religiously based Wink

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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Black Moon Clan, Shitennou, and Amazon Quartet   Sun 10 May - 18:13

Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Black Moon Clan, Shitennou, and Amazon Quartet   Wed 3 Feb - 11:53

Bump.
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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Black Moon Clan, Shitennou, and Amazon Quartet   Wed 10 Feb - 3:27

@east02west wrote:
After all, it does seem odd that four earthlings from the Amazon would randomly turn out to be princesses of their own planets/asteroids.
 Technically, they aren't "just" earthlings.  In the manga, they were already destined by Queen Serenity/New Queen Serenity(forgot which) of the Silver Millennium/Crystal Tokyo to be Chibi-usa's guards and were not awaken yet.  However, Queen Nehelenia woke them up before Chibi-usa could be born.
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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Black Moon Clan, Shitennou, and Amazon Quartet   Wed 10 Feb - 9:14

Right.

However, they were born in the Amazon rain forest and born from stones in the manner of the Shitennou. We never really get a backstory to the Shitennou (or their re-awakening), and to me it seems rather odd that we don't see them in Crystal Tokyo considering that they ruled over various regions of the Earth during Silver Millennium. The Shitennou managed to remain sentient well after their corporal deaths, so it would seem that they didn't quite "die", but rather that they reverted to their stone forms. Doesn't it seem curious that the last time we hear of them is in the Dreams Arc with the birth of the Amazon Quartet? In many ways Mamoru's illness in Dreams mirrors that of Usagi's in the Black Moon Arc, however it's accomplished through the agency of Helios, Mamoru's priestly form. So much is not known about Mamoru's past, or relationship to Helios. Nevertheless, it would appear that the Dreams Arc addresses ChibiUsa gaining the power of the Golden Crystal, at least through the agency of Helios whom she is destined to wed.

How did Nehelenia wake up the Amazon Quartet, when she was preset at the birth of Usagi where she cursed her? Is Nehelenia the first incarnation of Chaos?
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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Black Moon Clan, Shitennou, and Amazon Quartet   Wed 10 Feb - 22:17

@east02west wrote:
Right.

However, they were born in the Amazon rain forest and born from stones in the manner of the Shitennou. 
 Where did you get that from?   Show me.
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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Black Moon Clan, Shitennou, and Amazon Quartet   Wed 10 Feb - 23:10

Act 45 of the Dreams Arc has them reverting to their stone/orb states, but I don't recall if it's in the same act that we're informed that Nehelenia had woken them up prematurely. In Act 47 Sailor Saturn gathers the Amazon Stones, and in Act 49 she gives them to Queen Serenity.


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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Black Moon Clan, Shitennou, and Amazon Quartet   Thu 11 Feb - 22:28

oh...  hmm.... never noticed that... that is weird.  However, this doesn't mean they are the incarnations of the Shitennou.  I mean the Shitennou were minerals, and specific ones at that.  And like you said the Amazoness Quartet are just Amazon stones.
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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Black Moon Clan, Shitennou, and Amazon Quartet   Fri 12 Feb - 9:08

Well, considering that ChibiUsa is the daughter of both Mamoru and Usagi, there needed to be a way to fuse their respective guardians. What better way to do so?

What however doesn't make much sense however is the following:

Considering that ChibiUsa isn't a direct clone of Usagi in the manner that Princess Serenity was of Queen Serenity, why would she be limited to one child? Also, something that bugs me is how we see Usagi holding onto the Silver Crystal of the future (or rather Minako), but we likewise see ChibiUsa producing her own when Setsuna dies. Are they the same crystal?

I still think that it's an open issue if Usagi and Mamoru are able to have a son, or perhaps that will come about from ChibiUsa and Helios' union.
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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Black Moon Clan, Shitennou, and Amazon Quartet   Fri 12 Feb - 10:16

@east02west wrote:
Well, considering that ChibiUsa is the daughter of both Mamoru and Usagi, there needed to be a way to fuse their respective guardians. What better way to do so?

Why do their guardians need to be fused? Chibiusa already inherits so much from her mother as it is, I think she deserves her own guardian separate from either of her parents. Not everything about her needs to originate from Usagi.

@east02west wrote:
Considering that ChibiUsa isn't a direct clone of Usagi in the manner that Princess Serenity was of Queen Serenity, why would she be limited to one child? Also, something that bugs me is how we see Usagi holding onto the Silver Crystal of the future (or rather Minako), but we likewise see ChibiUsa producing her own when Setsuna dies. Are they the same crystal?

I still think that it's an open issue if Usagi and Mamoru are able to have a son, or perhaps that will come about from ChibiUsa and Helios' union.

It was said that Moon royalty can only have one daughter per generation, though it's never explained why. It's a thing that just is. I'm not sure how they procreate affects that, unless they decide to adopt.

And no, those crystals aren't the same. Chibiusa has her own crystal, the Pink Moon Crystal, completely a separate entity from either the Silver Crystal of the past and future. It is her own Sailor Crystal and no one else's, not inherited or anything like that.

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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Black Moon Clan, Shitennou, and Amazon Quartet   Fri 12 Feb - 11:17

Code:
"Why do their guardians need to be fused? Chibiusa already inherits so much from her mother as it is, I think she deserves her own guardian separate from either of her parents. Not everything about her needs to originate from Usagi."




Because eventually Usagi would die, and ChibiUsa would inherit the throne and reign alongside her husband Helios. It's her destiny. 


I have to admit that Naoko didn't quite answer a number of these rather important questions. It's not so much a matter of allowing fans to speculate and theorize, but poor writing and not tying in together the stories accordingly. 


We still don't have a satisfactory answer of how Queen Serenity faced off against Chaos in the form of Nehelenia, prior to Chaos-Metalia inciting Beryl to take up arms against the Moon Kingdom. We likewise see that the Sailor Senshi are much older than Princess Serenity. Are we to assume that they were sent as "tributes" for the new born princess, or were they created by Queen Serenity? That's part of my "beef" with the series in that it doesn't resolve the conflict between their pre-reincarnate histories and the present histories. Stars was a disaster because of this in IMO.


It would make sense that the clone of Queen Serenity (Princess Serenity she was birthed from the Silver Crystal...) would inherit her "mother's" guard, and each successive generation of Crystal generated Serenitys would continue to inherit the same inner guard, and outer guard as their previous form. I would assume that with the generation of the next Serenity, upon achieving maturity the other Serenity would repose.


Note that it is canon that the union of the people of the Moon and Earth was forbidden. It can be assumed that the union of an immortal and a mortal would bring about chaos (which it did with Metallia's revolt). As such, ChibiUsa is the first of her kind.


However, Dreams throws us a curve ball with the very underdeveloped plot from the Dark Kingdom and Black Moon arcs with Mamoru's powers and the lingering presence of the Shitennou. Mamoru apparently is some sort of immortal whose counterpart is Helios (ChibiUsa ends up with her dad to some degree...). The Shitennou likewise remained dormant within their stones (Star seeds?) and could this be awakened when need be to potentially re-incarnate and potentially assume their kingly roles anew.


What time warp was Nehelenia sealed away within that she somehow managed to sense the presence of the Amazon Stones and was able to awaken them prematurely?


Do you see what I mean? Too many open ends.


Quote :
"It was said that Moon royalty can only have one daughter per generation, though it's never explained why. It's a thing that just is. I'm not sure how they procreate affects that, unless they decide to adopt.

And no, those crystals aren't the same. Chibiusa has her own crystal, the Pink Moon Crystal, completely a separate entity from either the Silver Crystal of the past and future. It is her own Sailor Crystal and no one else's, not inherited or anything like that."



It only becomes the Pink Moon Crystal much later. We assume by the end of the Dark Kingdom Arc that the crystal that forces her to awaken into ChibiMoon is in fact the Silver Crystal. Only later are we told it's something else.

See my point above about the Silver Crystal generating future Serenitys.

I have long theorized in other threads that Sailor Cosmos is in fact the original Queen Serenity who battled Chaos in a past that we're not privy to. Considering that ChibiUsa does not wield or inherit the Silver Crystal (or does she?), and by extension the Golden Crystal of her father (which makes the introduction of Helios rather awkward...). So perhaps Usagi-Serenity generates a new Serenity who inherits the future Silver Crystal, and perhaps the child of ChibiUsa and Helios inherits the Golden Crystal. 

The limit on one child of people of the Moon likely has to do with the fact that they share a common life source, the Silver Crystal. However that brings up other problems considering that the concept of Star Seeds is introduced so very late in the series. 
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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Black Moon Clan, Shitennou, and Amazon Quartet   Fri 12 Feb - 13:35

if you're gonna talk about moon royalty i'm gonna have to step in...*cracks fingers*

@east02west wrote:
We still don't have a satisfactory answer of how Queen Serenity faced off against Chaos in the form of Nehelenia, prior to Chaos-Metalia inciting Beryl to take up arms against the Moon Kingdom.

yes we did. Selenity used the Crescent Moon Wand to seal Nehelenia in a mirror in the palace.

@east02west wrote:
We likewise see that the Sailor Senshi are much older than Princess Serenity. Are we to assume that they were sent as "tributes" for the new born princess, or were they created by Queen Serenity?

much older? at best they are six or seven years older than Serenity. those were children and not teenagers bowing before their queen and princess right? while the idea of them being some kind of "tribute" is intriguing, this was probably the case in much nicer terms. i'm not sure Selenity would decide "oh my child needs guardians. i know, i'll use the starseeds of the planets in this solar system and craft castles there for them!" i think it's much more likely there were pre-existing people on the planets, and they entered an alliance of peace with the Moon, which is why they gave their princess senshi to guard her.

not to mention the fact the Silver Crystal has been demonstrated to be far more powerful than any of the planetary crystals. so it makes sense its owner would need protection.

@east02west wrote:
It would make sense that the clone of Queen Serenity (Princess Serenity she was birthed from the Silver Crystal...) would inherit her "mother's" guard, and each successive generation of Crystal generated Serenitys would continue to inherit the same inner guard, and outer guard as their previous form.

this would be a nice theory if the inner senshi had actually acted as guardians to Queen Selenity..but they didn't. there seems to be no prior guard for Selenity, only Serenity. and while i agree with the concept of the descendants getting an inner and outer guard as it makes sense, i hope you're not suggesting they get essentially the same person over and over.

@east02west wrote:
Note that it is canon that the union of the people of the Moon and Earth was forbidden. It can be assumed that the union of an immortal and a mortal would bring about chaos (which it did with Metallia's revolt). As such, ChibiUsa is the first of her kind.

while this is the case in the Silver Millennium, it's not the case anymore. Serenity was reborn as a regular mortal human. and the Silver Crystal grants her and everyone around her long life, essentially making the Earth immortal as the Moon once was. pretty sure the Crystal does not alter Usagi's genetic structure, hopefully not, making Chibiusa not really the first of anything. She's just the offspring of two fairly powerful crystal bearers, which i'm sure happens elsewhere in the universe.

@east02west wrote:
It only becomes the Pink Moon Crystal much later. We assume by the end of the Dark Kingdom Arc that the crystal that forces her to awaken into ChibiMoon is in fact the Silver Crystal. Only later are we told it's something else.

it's only the Silver Crystal in the anime, which Rini had been shown to have taken. in the manga, which i double checked, it's not even given a name or really mentioned. the big thing isn't she got a crystal, it's that she transformed.

@east02west wrote:
So perhaps Usagi-Serenity generates a new Serenity who inherits the future Silver Crystal, and perhaps the child of ChibiUsa and Helios inherits the Golden Crystal.

The limit on one child of people of the Moon likely has to do with the fact that they share a common life source, the Silver Crystal. However that brings up other problems considering that the concept of Star Seeds is introduced so very late in the series.

i believe the fact of one child only is due to the influence of the Moon Crystal. in general the Moon Crystal is very powerful, and is not the sort of thing that should be quibbled over. less heirs means less conflict. Chibiusa still has a Moon Crystal, even if it is her own it still probably draws from the same place as the Silver, so she will still have the same limitations. and Usagi has already had a daughter who inherits a Moon Crystal. if she "generated" another child, she might decide she deserves all the Moon Power, including the Silver and Pink crystals, thus conflict.

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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Black Moon Clan, Shitennou, and Amazon Quartet   Fri 12 Feb - 15:12

Quote :
yes we did. Selenity used the Crescent Moon Wand to seal Nehelenia in a mirror in the palace.

Yes, but we never get the impression in the Dark Kingdom Arc that Chaos had manifested itself prior to Metallia-Beryl's revolt against the people of the moon. The senshi gained *all* their memories of the past back, so it doesn't quite make sense that they wouldn't recall Nehelenia. I can excuse Usagi, but what were Luna, Artemis, and the rest of the senshis' excuses? Sure one could argue that they were too young to remember, but all things considered, it doesn't make sense. My proof? Luna and Artemis speak of the Sailor Wars having taken place *during* Silver Millennium as this is alluded to in their exchange with Sailor Animamate Tin Nyanko (see my thread on Diana as the new Sailor Mau), and Phobos and Deimos' exchange with Sailor Animamate Lead Crow. So even if the senshi didn't recall, at most their advisors would have (also the allusion to Sleeping Beauty is there. Nehelenia occupies the role of the black fairy and the move away from the lunar to solar calendar.).

It was poorly written on the part of Naoko, and to me it attempts to retcon the relationship between Chaos and Cosmos (the Silver Crystal) so as to set the stage for the Stars Arc. I mean throughout all the other arcs we never hear of Mamoru's crystal, an lo and behold he manages to have the counterpart to the Silver Crystal, and a priestly incarnation of his past self in Helios?  How many times was the Earth devastated previously that he managed not to be effected, and then somehow in the Dreams Arc he is? 

Queen Metallia was a formless spirit as was Pharaoh 90, but in Stars we're told that they were manifestations of Chaos as were all other enemies. Shouldn't that have been established since the series' inception? Namely that in so long as the Crystal remained active so too would Chaos seek to overwhelm and destroy its bearer. It would actually provide the sort of necessary tension and backstory to the figures that we're introduced to later on in the series. 

The Infinity Arc is my favourite, but it too suffers from a major plot hole. Apparently Pharaoh 90 was wielding influence on Earth since Hotaru's youth. Wouldn't that mean that the Outers would have awoken much earlier considering that Pharaoh 90 and crew are from outside our solar system? Who awoke them and provided them with their henshin sticks? Some might say that Hotaru had yet to awaken as Sailor Saturn, but considering the entrance of Pharaoh 90 during her youth, I don't think that's quite plausible.

Quote :
much older? at best they are six or seven years older than Serenity. those were children and not teenagers bowing before their queen and princess right? while the idea of them being some kind of "tribute" is intriguing, this was probably the case in much nicer terms. i'm not sure Selenity would decide "oh my child needs guardians. i know, i'll use the starseeds of the planets in this solar system and craft castles there for them!" i think it's much more likely there were pre-existing people on the planets, and they entered an alliance of peace with the Moon, which is why they gave their princess senshi to guard her.

not to mention the fact the Silver Crystal has been demonstrated to be far more powerful than any of the planetary crystals. so it makes sense its owner would need protection.

At best this is speculation. 

We don't know how the senshi or Serenity aged during the time of Silver Millenium, but I'll grant that they're about 8 or 9.

We get mixed messages about the inhabitants of the inhabitants of the various planets of the senshi. If Usagi is any indication, then it is entirely possible that Queen Serenity did in fact awaken the dormant Star Seeds of the planets to provide a guard for her daughter. The Amazoness Quartet only came into existence in the 30th century and were dormant within the Amazon rainforest where Nehelenia encountered them. 

I think it would have been better had her Inner guard had a more distant relationship with her in the manner that the Outer senshi initially do. Namely that they would have been allies of the Moon, as opposed to friends.

When Serenity and Mamoru repose, so too go the senshi of the planets. What purpose would ChibiUsa's guard have if she were to inherit the Inner and Outer Senshi? 

Doesn't Stars indicate that each time Usagi re-incarnates so too does everyone else?

Quote :
while this is the case in the Silver Millennium, it's not the case anymore. Serenity was reborn as a regular mortal human. and the Silver Crystal grants her and everyone around her long life, essentially making the Earth immortal as the Moon once was. pretty sure the Crystal does not alter Usagi's genetic structure, hopefully not, making Chibiusa not really the first of anything. She's just the offspring of two fairly powerful crystal bearers, which i'm sure happens elsewhere in the universe. 

Except that it did.

ChibiUsa did not grow or age normally, but remained a child. This only gets resolved when she gets Prism power (or whatever equivalent it was when she first transforms). Which brings up another question, if there never was a Sailor Moon, why does Luna give Usagi a brooch that allows her to become Sailor Moon? What was the source of her power? The dormant Silver Crystal within her, or some other source?

Quote :
it's only the Silver Crystal in the anime, which Rini had been shown to have taken. in the manga, which i double checked, it's not even given a name or really mentioned. the big thing isn't she got a crystal, it's that she transformed.

We're left to draw the conclusion that she only manages to henshin up by catalyzing some power within herself. Whether this is her own crystal or as I suggested above, prism power, we're left to draw our own conclusions. She didn't have a true compact her first time which leads me to conclude that it was likely Prism power. Still, it's anyone's guess.

Quote :
i believe the fact of one child only is due to the influence of the Moon Crystal. in general the Moon Crystal is very powerful, and is not the sort of thing that should be quibbled over. less heirs means less conflict. Chibiusa still has a Moon Crystal, even if it is her own it still probably draws from the same place as the Silver, so she will still have the same limitations. and Usagi has already had a daughter who inherits a Moon Crystal. if she "generated" another child, she might decide she deserves all the Moon Power, including the Silver and Pink crystals, thus conflict.

Not necessarily. 

We're informed that Helios lives within the Earth within Elysium. It's entirely within the realm of possibility that ChibiUsa would go on to reign within Elysium alongside Helios. Nehelenia was a self styled "queen" of the shadow cast between the Earth and the Moon, why can't ChibiUsa reign within the Earth with Helios? I'm sure ChibiUsa would be fine with that considering she wouldn't have to live in her mother's shadow. 

Who inherited the Golden Crystal if ChibiUsa only inherited her mother's Silver Crystal? Usagi could go on to bear Mamoru a son to whom the Golden crystal would pass on to. However, this is another instance of sloppy writing, because we later get the introduction of the Sapphire crystal (wouldn't that be where Mercury and Sapphire drew their energy from? Anyone else notice the parallel between the shitennou and the Black Moon clan?) which is said to rival the Silver crystal.
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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Black Moon Clan, Shitennou, and Amazon Quartet   Fri 12 Feb - 23:18

Pardon the "double post" (however, since a sufficient amount of time has elapsed, I don't think it qualifies as such...), but in case anyone is wondering where I got the idea that the Sailor Wars took place during Silver Millennium (or at some point preceding/during it), I'm referring to the exchange between Luna, Artemis, and Tin Nyanko in Act 53. Act 52 has the exchange between Phobos and Deimos with Lead Crow.

As to the Pink Crystal, I'm wondering if it's anything like the Pink Crystal the Usagi had on her original brooch in the manga:

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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Black Moon Clan, Shitennou, and Amazon Quartet   Sat 13 Feb - 18:12

@east02west wrote:


Doesn't Stars indicate that each time Usagi re-incarnates so too does everyone else?

Quote :
while this is the case in the Silver Millennium, it's not the case anymore. Serenity was reborn as a regular mortal human. and the Silver Crystal grants her and everyone around her long life, essentially making the Earth immortal as the Moon once was. pretty sure the Crystal does not alter Usagi's genetic structure, hopefully not, making Chibiusa not really the first of anything. She's just the offspring of two fairly powerful crystal bearers, which i'm sure happens elsewhere in the universe. 

Except that it did.

ChibiUsa did not grow or age normally, but remained a child. This only gets resolved when she gets Prism power (or whatever equivalent it was when she first transforms). Which brings up another question, if there never was a Sailor Moon, why does Luna give Usagi a brooch that allows her to become Sailor Moon? What was the source of her power? The dormant Silver Crystal within her, or some other source?

Quote :
it's only the Silver Crystal in the anime, which Rini had been shown to have taken. in the manga, which i double checked, it's not even given a name or really mentioned. the big thing isn't she got a crystal, it's that she transformed.

We're left to draw the conclusion that she only manages to henshin up by catalyzing some power within herself. Whether this is her own crystal or as I suggested above, prism power, we're left to draw our own conclusions. She didn't have a true compact her first time which leads me to conclude that it was likely Prism power. Still, it's anyone's guess.

Quote :
i believe the fact of one child only is due to the influence of the Moon Crystal. in general the Moon Crystal is very powerful, and is not the sort of thing that should be quibbled over. less heirs means less conflict. Chibiusa still has a Moon Crystal, even if it is her own it still probably draws from the same place as the Silver, so she will still have the same limitations. and Usagi has already had a daughter who inherits a Moon Crystal. if she "generated" another child, she might decide she deserves all the Moon Power, including the Silver and Pink crystals, thus conflict.

Not necessarily. 

We're informed that Helios lives within the Earth within Elysium. It's entirely within the realm of possibility that ChibiUsa would go on to reign within Elysium alongside Helios. Nehelenia was a self styled "queen" of the shadow cast between the Earth and the Moon, why can't ChibiUsa reign within the Earth with Helios? I'm sure ChibiUsa would be fine with that considering she wouldn't have to live in her mother's shadow. 

Who inherited the Golden Crystal if ChibiUsa only inherited her mother's Silver Crystal? Usagi could go on to bear Mamoru a son to whom the Golden crystal would pass on to. However, this is another instance of sloppy writing, because we later get the introduction of the Sapphire crystal (wouldn't that be where Mercury and Sapphire drew their energy from? Anyone else notice the parallel between the shitennou and the Black Moon clan?) which is said to rival the Silver crystal.
 First point:  Where in Stars does it indicate that every Usagi/Serenity is reborn everyone else is too?  Show me.  You brought it up, give us proof.

Second point: Luna gives Usagi the brooch because her, as in Luna's, memories were altered by Queen Serenity.  This was mentioned in the manga, but not in the original anime I believe.  Artemis did retain all the memories because he was needed to train Minako, to be the decoy princess in order to protect the real princess, Usagi.  Also, Chibi-usa did age normally, at least mentally she did, not physically.

Third Point: No comment.

Last Point:  Those of the moon kingdom/silver millenium only give birth to daughters, so I highly doubt Usagi would be able to bear a son.  Also, you got the Sapphire crystal wrong.  The Sapphire crystal is Sailor Galaxia's star seed.  Mercury and Sapphire do not cry their power from that crystal.  Mercury would her power from her own Mercury Crystal and Sapphire, and I'm guessing you are talking about the one from the Black Moon Clan, draws his power from the Black Crystal.
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east02west
Pyramidal Crystal


Pyramidal Crystal

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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Black Moon Clan, Shitennou, and Amazon Quartet   Sat 13 Feb - 21:41

Point 1: Act 52

The exchange between Usagi (speaking on behalf of her senshi) and Guardian Cosmos:

 "Do you want to create a new history of the stars? Does this mean you want to leave here in those star forms?"

 "We want to go live together always like this. We want to make our future like this. However hard it may be, we want to live these lives!" 

It follows that any which time Serenity were to be reborn, that the Silver Crystal too would follow. Just as the Silver Crystal would be reborn with its bearer, so too would her guard.

Stars' introduction of the Galaxy Cauldron doesn't quite jive with the Dark Moon Arc's continuity. Wouldn't Queen Serenity have sent them all to the Galaxy Cauldron to be reborn on Earth? Why would Endymion and the Shitennou have been able to be re-incarnate if they didn't have an equivalent of a Sailor Star Crystal? It's not as if they were all in suspended animation like Luna and Artemis.

Point 2: Luna's memories may have been altered, but it seems odd that Queen Serenity would have place her own daughter in harm's way by having her become a senshi. I'm not in a position to change what's canon in the series, but as I argued here (http://www.thegalaxycauldronforums.com/t12368-nehelenia-daughter-of-mamoru-and-usagi), I think it would have been better for the story to revolve around Minako initially, and then introduce Usagi as the protagonist later. But I digress as that's not a decision I'm in the position to make, nor are we discussing hypotheticals.

My main two points were the following: Given that Usagi wasn't drawing on the power of the Silver Crystal to henshin into Sailor Moon, what power was she drawing upon before? What exactly is Prism Power"? Did the disguise pen draw on the same power source? Given that Minako's henshin pen allowed her to disguise, are we to assume that all the senshi could do this,or were Minako and Usagi's pens drawing power from somewhere other than the Moon or Venus?

We're still left with the fact that both Usagi and Mamoru are concerned that she has stopped growing/aging normally, and that she has not awoken as a Sailor Guardian. It was both scenarios that had them concerned. ChibiUsa was the first "Serenity" to be conceived sexually as opposed to being "birthed" in the manner that Princess Serenity was from Queen Serenity (Refer to Act 52). The Silver Crystal was the source of the extended life (Which doesn't quite make the people of the Moon immortal,just long lived.), whereas the people of the Earth had shorter life spans. This somewhat gets thrown out of the window with the introduction of Helios (Endymion's priestly incarnation and counterpart to Queen Serenity of Silver Millennium) and the Golden Crystal. The power of the Golden Crystal is never quite explored, we're just informed that it was the counterpart to the Silver Crystal and belonged to Endymion. We're left wondering why Helios wasn't effected by the death of Mamoru during Silver Millennium, and for that matter why he figured so late into the series when it would have allowed for a more in depth understanding of Mamoru's powers and his ascension with Usagi to the throne. But all that said, does the Golden Crystal grant Endymion and the Shittenou and extended lifespan too?

Third point: Okay. 

I was just asking what the source of her initial henshin was. Sure it was a burst of emotion, but what crystal's energy was she drawing on?

Fourth point: The Moon Matriarch (Queen Serenity) didn't quite give birth, but rather she created Princess Serenity and gave her life at the Galaxy Cauldron. This goes deeper into the mythology associated with the *virgin* moon goddess Diana-Artemis in Greco-Roman mythology (Wonder Woman would be a good point of comparison on this point). Recall that the people of the Moon (who exactly were these people?) were forbidden to have relations with the people of the Earth. It would seem that during Silver Millennium, the people of the Moon kingdom were goddesses/immortals (ie. the myth of Selene and Endymion).

While it is true that the Silver Crystal can only pass between women, we are likewise left to assume that the Golden Crystal passes itself along men (Helios-Endymion/Mamoru) as we are informed that it is the counterpart of the Silver Crystal and complements it. Helios is god of the Sun, whereas Diana-Artemis was goddess of the Moon. This however was not explored and just raises more questions.

As to the Sapphire Crystal, I may have been wrong about Mercury and Sapphire (I still think the jury is out on whether there was meant to be any special significance to their names, or if they were just a renegade group who just so happened to have the names of precious stones (ie. Black Moon equivalents of the Shitennou).), but I don't believe that the Sapphire Crystal was intended to be Galaxia's Sailor Crystal. I sincerely believe that it was intended as the inverse of the Silver Crystal as was granted to her by Chaos. Note that her brooch has four crystals/stones which correspond to those on Usagi's original brooch. Why would such a weak senshi from a war torn planet have such a strong  Sailor Crystal? Frankly I think this should have been better explored instead of introducing the Starlights and their princess. Stars has too many figures in it.
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[Theory] Black Moon Clan, Shitennou, and Amazon Quartet

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