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 [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc

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PostSubject: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   27th June 2011, 7:05 pm

If you've seen the first few episodes of Sailor Stars, you already know what I'm talking about. Something was up with Mercury. They drew her funny. Her head seems smaller and fatter, unlike the traditional Mercury we saw for 4 seasons before hand. I've included a few images for comparison. What do you think happened? Did they attempt to change her look and it failed, or did they get a new artist who was incapable of drawing her correctly?

Regular Anime Mercury


Stars Mercury, Episode One


But by episode 4, something strange happens to Mercury...


And this continues through the Episode:


So my question is... WTF Mercury?


Last edited by Sailor Mars on 27th June 2011, 10:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   27th June 2011, 8:09 pm



In general, the art for the Sailor Stars changed. I think the changes were mainly created to depict the girls as older -- they are bit longer, with faces a bit more angular (possibly to be more "adult" like).

The bottom two caps that you are showing however are not limited to simply the stars. I do not know who that animator is, but he/she has been driving me crazy during all the seasons. His (i'm just going to use a male form) art pops up on random episodes and it is just so atrocious that it makes me want to weep. Seriously. The characters have huge, fat heads and their limbs (like hands or feet/boots) are hardly bothered to be thought out and drawn. Sailor Mercury is not his only victim.

This cap for example is from episode 83 of the R season. See how they all get fudged up?


It's horribly unfortunate. Crying or Very sad But not limited to just Mercury.
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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   27th June 2011, 10:32 pm

There were several different head animators that worked on different episodes. That is why you'll see a change in art styles. That is one thing that was very different about anime in that time period and that was inconsistency, depending on the show and budget.

I forget the names of the animators, but the one above seems to be the most hated. While it was not always my favorite, I didn't have a huge problem with it.

However, my favorite animation is from the SuperS season and the SuperS movie. It is top notch if you ask me. I didn't like a lot of the Stars animation simply due to the fact that they changed Usagi's hair color to this weird highlighter yellow! if you compare screen shots from the earlier seasons to later stars episodes, it makes me go wtf. I think Minako's hair was slightly changed too. I dunno what was different when it came to colors for that season. But it was weird.

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   28th June 2011, 11:05 am

@Mars: You seem to be a fan of the rounder Sailor Scouts. I agree with @Brit-chan in that SuperS was the most well drawn. In my opinion, it's followed by Sailor Stars.

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   28th June 2011, 12:30 pm

I hate the rounder looking Senshi!! I like when they look normal. Lol. I agree that SuperS had the best animation. That season, graphically, was by far the best AND my most favorite. Everything was so polished and... just perfect.
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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   28th June 2011, 1:43 pm

It was such a bad idea to bring that animator aboard. I know some people do not mind him but really, goodness. -_- It bothers me when his animation comes on episodes that are focused on Usagi x Mamoru especially. There are like, what? Four episodes total that feature them? And he has to come in and ruin those rare episodes? Gyah. The Glass Slipper episode in the S season really upset me. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   28th June 2011, 1:50 pm

I just hate that he comes in and suddenly the normal look of the senshi are completely altered and I'm like "What? Did my eyes just get dumber?" It's like he tries to make them look like Chibi versions of themselves... and it's just wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   28th June 2011, 5:23 pm

I'm sorry, but that particular artist doesn't know how to draw anybody correctly. Some people bitch that this artist is "underrated" and "gets too much hate from the fandom" but, in my humble opinion, he sucks. I'm being blunt here, I know, but I really just don't like his style at all. It's bad on the eyes. Thank goodness he only did one episode in Stars.

I agree with Brit-chan about that being the best animation style, but I still really like the animation in Stars. I know some people don't, and I'm totally fine with that, but I hate seeing squabbles in the fandom about such a stupid matter of opinion. (NOT here, some other places I've seen)

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   28th June 2011, 5:38 pm

I liked Stars for it's animation as well, because the seasons just got better as new technology became available over the years, but I enjoy SuperS darker look, as it was a darker season (in my opinion).
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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   28th June 2011, 6:18 pm

@Sailor Mars -- ""What? Did my eyes just get dumber?"
That comment made me laugh. Hehe. It is a bit of a shocker when you see the preview and you realize that HE animated that episode. Oh, the woes.

I can't really remember specifically the SuperS animation. I remember there being very pretty artwork though. I hate the SuperS out of all the seasons though because they made it all about Chibi-Usa and even gave her a more substantial role that Usagi. She's important in the manga but even in the end, it is Usagi who is the main subject.

I really liked the art in the Stars season too. As Sailor Mars said, it's probably because of the new technology acquired that they were able to add different effects and such.

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   28th June 2011, 6:28 pm

I think it was important in the Anime for Chibi-Usa to be the main character. For too long Usagi was like "Boo hoo, Chibi-Usa is stealing my spotlight. I hate my future daughter." But this season FORCED her to grow up and grow into the mom she was supposed to be... and it would be very hard to do that without making Chibi-Usa a main character for the season. I agree though. SuperS had AMAZING background artwork.
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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   28th June 2011, 9:04 pm

I'm a fan of Chibi-Usa/Helios so I LOVE the SuperS season. They are too cute. Plus I liked a lot of the MOTD, they had some hilarious ones.

And uh...best villains! Tigers-Eye, Hawks-Eye, Fish-Eye, and the Amazoness Quartet!

But back to animation...I like some of stars animation but a lot of it bothered me. In comparison to SuperS, it just wasn't as good in some eps, IMO.

Also, who's with me on a redo of the anime? Seriously. Maybe like a whole redo and cut out some filler and make the animation much neater and omg it'd be awesome.

But i doubt that'd happen. :/

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   28th June 2011, 9:08 pm

It'd be nice if they redid it but left the storyline intact this time around. Keep the lesbians lesbians and keep the Starlights the Starlights (cause even I'm still not certain what they were). But it would have to stay Jap anime and not American "anime".
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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   28th June 2011, 9:11 pm

Quote :
Also, who's with me on a redo of the anime? Seriously. Maybe like a whole redo and cut out some filler and make the animation much neater and omg it'd be awesome.

Oh my goodness, I always think that! I think it would be so awesome, with how much anime has advanced in animation, seiyuu and effects, that if the anime was re-done that it would be spectacular.

Aaaand, personally, I would like the characters to be more similar to the manga. ^^


Purely japanese. Not american either. -_-

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   28th June 2011, 9:13 pm

I was talking abotu the japanese version. English dubbing companies have no decisions in animation styles, just rewriting dialogue and plot points. XD

And yes! I think a FMA: Brotherhood esque redo is in need of Sailor Moon if you ask me. But i dunno if Naoko wants that. I think she wants to enjoy the 20th anniversary but i don't think she wants anything to that extent. Unfortunately if you ask me! Maybe she could get more say so in an anime redo. Oh well. Sad
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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   28th June 2011, 10:06 pm

I highly doubt a new sailor moon anime will over come about. I also think that the majority of fans would reject it as well. It would ruin all nostalgic feelings, I suppose. I don't look at it that way. We would have the old one, for our memories, and then the new one to make up for the injustice done to the manga. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   29th June 2011, 8:58 am

I think it would be cool if they made an OVA based on something in the manga; not to long, just to test the waters for interest in something bigger.

But I highly doubt that's going to happen. It's pretty clear that Takeuchi considers Sailor Moon, for the most part, to be a done deal.

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   29th June 2011, 9:33 am

@Sailor Cosmos wrote:
I think it would be cool if they made an OVA based on something in the manga; not to long, just to test the waters for interest in something bigger.

But I highly doubt that's going to happen. It's pretty clear that Takeuchi considers Sailor Moon, for the most part, to be a done deal.

Yeah, I agree. You know if not a sailor moon redo, a Sailor V ova would be really awesome too.
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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   29th June 2011, 11:20 am

@Brit-chan wrote:

Yeah, I agree. You know if not a sailor moon redo, a Sailor V ova would be really awesome too.

You know what? I'd MUCH rather see a Sailor V OVA than a Sailor Moon redo. I mean, Sailor V didn't get any animation whatsoever! I think there'd be a much better chance of Sailor V getting an OVA than Sailor Moon getting one.

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   29th June 2011, 6:27 pm

Agreed! It'd be nice if it stayed fairly close to the manga too, but it doesn't have to be THAT close. Just nothing like say...the difference between the SM manga and anime. XD

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   29th June 2011, 7:12 pm

Being completely biased here, I vote they make another movie that is ACTUALLY dedicated to Mamoru and Usagi in their manga form. Although the R movie was supposed to be about them, you notice that there was very little romantic scenes with them? They are nearly apart the whole time. -_- There was more romance in the S movie.

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   5th July 2011, 6:09 pm

The name of the animation director was Masahiro Ando. Wikimoon is kind enough to list all the episodes he oversaw. In fact, episode 170 is his final episode.

I don't like his style much, either, but I think it played out well in Usagi's Dance is the Waltz, one of my favorite episodes.

If the animation had consistently been as it was during the SuperS movie, I would be immeasurably happy.

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   5th July 2011, 7:34 pm

@Thereisnospoon303 wrote:
I don't like his style much, either, but I think it played out well in Usagi's Dance is the Waltz, one of my favorite episodes.

If the animation had consistently been as it was during the SuperS movie, I would be immeasurably happy.

Oh gosh, I think he ruined every episode that he animated. XD I was always incredibly disappointed when he animated an UsagixMamoru episode. It completely ruined it for me! I would get all excited for a finally! romantic episode and then he would come along and ruin things. Ah, woes.

Everyone keeps mentioning how the animation in the SuperS was their favorite. I can't really remember a distinction of it compared to the S series. SuperS was my least favorite season because I loathed how it was all about ChibiUsa. I do not hate her, but in general I hate when a child is the main character. I could never get into any anime or movie or show when a child is the main character. However, all this talk about the SuperS animation has me quite curious as to how it differed so much!

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   5th July 2011, 9:07 pm

I should be specific in stating that the SuperS movie animation really took my breath away. Of course, because they were doing a fifty minute long film, they could increase the budget as opposed to the serial episodes. On the whole, SuperS the season had some strong animation likely due to Sailor Moon being enormously popular and warranting greater investment.

I actually didn't so much mind the focus being on Chibiusa, though I would have preferred if they had stuck to a storyline which more closely followed the manga. Rather, I loathe the countless filler episodes found in SuperS, especially in comparison to the S season wherein even the "filler" episodes retained character and plot development. But there is a stretch of about then episodes in SuperS where the story remains stagnant, and all that occurs is the standard monster of the day formula. It was such a chore to get through it all.

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   5th July 2011, 11:24 pm

I agree that Ando's artwork is warped, and absolutely terrible for serious episodes. I mean, did he really have to do the art for the first episode of the third season? For an episode from the finale of Supers?

He's still probably my least-favorite artist in Sailor Moon, but I do find his artwork kind of endearing sometimes.



How could you not love this face? Well, okay, the eyes are kind of...weird...

ETA: To me, the first picture of Mercury just looks like her hair is longer. Maybe she decided to grow it out a little.
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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   11th July 2011, 10:17 am

Ando's art is better suited for lighthearted, filler episodes. It just looks.... weird when it's used in important and serious episodes. Plus, his artwork really stands out, so it's a little jarring when you go from him to another artist.

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   11th July 2011, 11:39 am

@Sailor Cosmos wrote:
Ando's art is better suited for lighthearted, filler episodes. It just looks.... weird when it's used in important and serious episodes. Plus, his artwork really stands out, so it's a little jarring when you go from him to another artist.

Even light-hearted episodes deserve respectful art! XD

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   11th July 2011, 12:16 pm

Hold on, somebody posted something completely relevant to this on my tumblr....

This is by veteranfangirl.tumblr.com;

"I know people have been coming to Masahiro Ando’s defense lately, but NO. While his style is really expressive and he does some things in a charming way…

1. The style is incredibly jarring with serious, dramatic episodes. It feels incredibly amateur, especially when people are dying with their feetless legs flailing around.

2. Yeah. The hands and feet. Dude, you’re a f*cking professional. Hands are an important thing to be able to draw and you can’t. This isn’t a style issue, the man just cannot draw hands. Oh, and feet? He doesn’t even make any attempt to draw feet.

Actually, those are the two things. His style is charming and expressive but absolutely impossible to be taken seriously — better suited to the more wacky episodes. And he certainly shouldn’t be in charge of any stock animation because then we’re stuck with a jarring change in animation.

That first thought is an opinion. But fact: drawing hands in little fists half the time is only one step up from drawing them behind the character’s back or in her pockets. (Yes, of course he draws hands in other positions, but the fact that he resorts to balling them up half the time is very telling.)

I personally have always felt that his style would be rockin’ for fanart. There’s nothing actually wrong with it in and of itself. It’s so stylized and unique. But this is a series and the animators’ work should all blend together fairly seamlessly. His sticks way out.

Yes, Taichi Nakamura (big-chins-and-stiff-bodies) and Michiaki Sugimoto (every-deformed-episode-of-Stars) are just as bad, sometimes worse. But I feel like while the blanket sentiment of “UGH ANDO’S STYLE IS LIKE SOOO UGGO” is unfair, people coming to his defense are ignoring the fact that he couldn’t draw hands and feet despite being a professional animator."

I completely agree with EVERYTHING she said.

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   11th July 2011, 12:32 pm

Just a question though, these one specific animators don't actually animate everything in an episode, aren't they animation directors? Basically, yeah, they will do work and direct the style, but there are many many other people drawing and animating. Could it be possible the bad hands and such could be from that? I dunno. Just throwing it out there while thinking about how the animation industry worked during that time (and still kind of applies to todays work).

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Sailor Mercury: Nehelenia's Revenge Arc   12th July 2011, 3:15 pm

I think because I look at this as a profession that I am so hard on these animators. There are so many talented people out there -- there is no need to settle on those who clearly are not properly equipped for the job.

Razz I know I may sound very harsh or opinionated, but as an artist, I almost take this personally. But please know that I respect everyone's opinions here and do not think ill of any of you for disagreeing with me.

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