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 Debate: Just how old is Pluto and why didn't she just take everyone into the past?

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PostSubject: Debate: Just how old is Pluto and why didn't she just take everyone into the past?   22nd December 2011, 9:44 pm

Here is something I have quite often wondered. What is the deal with Sailor Pluto? I want to open the floor for a debate regarding the following:

1) Was Sailor Pluto reborn like the rest of the Senshi or is she the same Pluto from the Moon Kingdom? Did she escape into time during the War? Just how old is she?

2) If She can control time, why not just take everyone back into time so that they could fight and prevent the destruction of the Moon Kingdom? Technically if she was able to take them to he future, why not just take them to the past when the war was going on?

My personal belief is that she is the same Pluto from the past and always was. She probably fought during the war and when all hope was lost escaped into time. Also, I feel like she was capable of taking people back to when the war was, so why didn't she? Don't get me wrong, I am aware that she was punished for opening the time tunnel for the future, but even before that happened, why didn't she ever just take people to the past? What was stopping her?

(I am aware that going into the past never happened due to the story line/ creator,but i want to know what else was stopping her.)

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Just how old is Pluto and why didn't she just take everyone into the past?   23rd December 2011, 12:05 am

There is a difference between "Sailor Pluto" and "Setsuna Meiou". :3

1) Pluto lives outside their world in another dimsion because she's special. Apparently Pluto has always existed and is therefore ageless. Setsuna is the incarnation of Pluto in the 20th century, who is twenty-something and a nurse.

2) An interesting point, this was actually acknowledged in the video game "Sailor Moon: Another Story" where they really did go back in time and had a chance to save the Moon Kingdom. It's decided that "the past is something that should not be changed", and you watch Queen Serenity die leaving me in tears T.T the entire Sailor Moon series puts great emphasis on how the "past is unchangeable, but the future is wide open", which would explain why they go to the future but not the past. Setsuna probably believes in this as much as Usagi and by extension Naoko Takeuchi. Besides perhaps a "Butterfly Effect" would cause terrible things in the present that Setsuna wouldn't try to manipulate.

I also believe that Pluto is ageless and exists eternally outside the 3rd dimension, she can incarnate herself into it, and it is possible for her to die when she does and that the Pluto of the Moon Kingdom always existed until the 30th Century, where I would like to believe Neo-Queen Serenity finally relieved poor Pluto of her eternal solitude and allowed her to live a life instead of Staying Alone and Forbidding Hades.

ALTERNATIVE THEORY:

Everything Setsuna does is really just part of a virtual reality game for her, she goes to various time periods and plays a life simulation game of some kind to see how long she can exist without dying, her life ending if she is either killed or has to use one of the taboos. When she loses, its merely GAME OVER: WOULD YOU LIKE TO PLAY AGAIN? And Setsuna decides whether she wants to play another round, whether she wants to go check on the oven or if she wants to lament over Endymion for a while. Perhaps her appearance in the SuperS Movie is merely because Haruka and Michiru know how much of a gamer Setsuna secretly is ... Essentially she takes on a random age each time she wants to play another round.

After that, now I'm thinking that once in a while if you get to the Space-Time Door there may be a sign that reads "LOADING PLUTO... 83%"
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Just how old is Pluto and why didn't she just take everyone into the past?   23rd December 2011, 3:31 pm

Well there is something to keep in mind in the manga, Pluto dies during the Black Moon Arc, we don't know the age of her then, but she never had died during the destruction of the Moon Kingdom. As UndergroundSources says, there is Setsuna Meiou who is an incarnation of Pluto. Like the rest of the senshi are reincarnations of their former selves.

I have a bit of a crack theory about Pluto. I secretly believe she is a time lord (a la Doctor Who). Her door is..could be...a Tardis. She guards Space AND Time! And is immortal! Setsuna Meioh is just a regeneration of her (though she managed to keep the same look). Also, the reason she is a Sailor is that she originally was the Senshi if Gallifrey (planet of the TIme Lords), but was sent on a mission to be the Sapce/Time Door Guardian and then became more closely involved with the Moon Kingdom (due to her falling in love with Endymion) and being fond of Queen Serenity and Princess Serenity.

Yeah.

It works. I promise.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Just how old is Pluto and why didn't she just take everyone into the past?   23rd December 2011, 7:08 pm

Brit-chan, you're just feeding my idea about a Sailor Moon/Doctor Who crossover so much! Pluto as sort of a rogue Time Lord is just awesome and being able to keep her look is pretty possible too. Time Lady's could choose what their appearance would look like.

Sailor Cosmos could become one of the Eternals too.

Anyway! As for 2, I think the reason she doesn't is because the consequences of changing the past would be disastrous, since time appears to be linear in this show. Also, maybe she's banned from doing just that like how she wasn't allowed to stop time or anything like that. I think so anyway.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Just how old is Pluto and why didn't she just take everyone into the past?   23rd December 2011, 7:26 pm

UndergroundSources wrote:
ALTERNATIVE THEORY:

Everything Setsuna does is really just part of a virtual reality game for her, she goes to various time periods and plays a life simulation game of some kind to see how long she can exist without dying, her life ending if she is either killed or has to use one of the taboos. When she loses, its merely GAME OVER: WOULD YOU LIKE TO PLAY AGAIN? And Setsuna decides whether she wants to play another round, whether she wants to go check on the oven or if she wants to lament over Endymion for a while. Perhaps her appearance in the SuperS Movie is merely because Haruka and Michiru know how much of a gamer Setsuna secretly is ... Essentially she takes on a random age each time she wants to play another round.

After that, now I'm thinking that once in a while if you get to the Space-Time Door there may be a sign that reads "LOADING PLUTO... 83%"

XD Yes.


1) Was Sailor Pluto reborn like the rest of the Senshi or is she the same Pluto from the Moon Kingdom? Did she escape into time during the War? Just how old is she?
I agree with Underground Sources about Pluto existing outside of time, so she's the same Pluto from the Moon Kingdom.
However, I don't think she 'escaped' into time during the war so much as was shackled to the door and completely unable to leave the sole duty entrusted to her by her Queen. Even if she wanted to, she could not leave to help them - imagine what could have happened if she left and one of the 'shadow warriors' found the door to time? (._. ) Issues, man. Issues would happen.

... Back onto the topic of her creation, if the senshi were all born around the same time in the Silver Millennium, I kinda think that the power to open the door came into being when little Sailor Pluto was born - no one was able to access or control it before she awakened as a senshi (a teeny, tiny senshi <3) and so she was its first guardian and truly started life in the Silver Millennium (having access to the door and dominion over it through blood relation to the god Chronos). So when the war with Metallia started, she was still relatively young and had been absolutely ordered to never leave her post or break any of the 3 taboos set upon her by Queen Serenity - so she never would. She was probably incredibly confused and torn, but ultimately she did what she was told and stayed by the door.


2) If She can control time, why not just take everyone back into time so that they could fight and prevent the destruction of the Moon Kingdom? Technically if she was able to take them to he future, why not just take them to the past when the war was going on?
Besides being pretty much taboo, she had really only started letting people time travel when she befriended poor, friendless Small Lady in the 30th century. ... so taking the senshi back to the past to undo the end of the Silver Millennium would never cross her mind, I think. Alternate timelines aside, it'd be pretty much committing suicide for the involved senshi (no end of the S.M., no rebirth into the 20th century...) and negating the future wherein her precious Small Lady came into existence (no 20th century senshi/usagi+mamoru, no crystal tokyo, no small lady).

... On alternative timelines... If they did go back and save it, if the alternative timelines are in effect, those specific senshi would not be changed whatsoever. It would create an alternative timeline, a completely unmapped future that wouldn't touch/affect them at all. ... so why bother? ... unless they wanted to participate in a freaky training exercise that messes with the future of that specific universe. ... >]

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Just how old is Pluto and why didn't she just take everyone into the past?   25th December 2011, 8:42 am

Wasn't taboo to even leave the door?
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Just how old is Pluto and why didn't she just take everyone into the past?   25th December 2011, 8:56 am

I think so too, but I think Naoko threw out some of the taboos once she had her incarnated as Setsuna. >.>

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Just how old is Pluto and why didn't she just take everyone into the past?   25th December 2011, 6:12 pm

Or.... there are two Pluto's, one existing by the door, another an incarnation in the 20th century.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Just how old is Pluto and why didn't she just take everyone into the past?   25th December 2011, 6:34 pm

Kyralih wrote:
Or.... there are two Pluto's, one existing by the door, another an incarnation in the 20th century.

She shows up, talking to NQS, as Super Sailor Pluto sometime in either S or StarS, I think: this WHILE her other self is still loose in the past. Since the 4th Dimension exists outside of time, she could easily be both at the gate- eternally- and inside of normal time for a while concurrently. I recall that her transformation level was different from the other senshi; I think that it was when they were starting to die in StarS and they were falling down in the future as a result of the past changing, and while they were in their StarS forms, Pluto was just a Super. This is probably significant somehow...

I think that Pluto could easily go to the gate of time briefly, and then come back- but since it's outside of time, her visit there (presumably after S?) would be the equivalent of staying there for eternity. [1] This leads to some interesting possibilities, such as- what would happen if she went there again? Would the two merge, or could she talk to herself? Would it cause a disruption of some sort? Very fascinating.

About the door appearing when Pluto was born: since Chronos was her father, presumably he manned it previously? If we follow the Greco-Roman mythological bent, their deities were- for the most part- older than humans, so there never would have been a time in human history where the door was unguarded or at least uncontrolled.

[1] I wish I could take credit for the idea of a moment outside of time becoming eternity, but I can't; my Sunday school teacher, yeeeeears ago, said that was why Christ was able to atone for ALL of humanity: being infinite and outside of time, it would be possible for Him to take the punishment of Hell for everyone who accepted Christ, even though He only had one life to give. It's a timey-wimey God thing. ...I'm sure when she said it, she had no clue it would ever end up on a Sailor Moon message board, though. ^^; Sorry, teach.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Just how old is Pluto and why didn't she just take everyone into the past?   10th July 2012, 9:12 pm

The whole thing with Setsuna and Pluto being the same yet different made me see a parallel of god and Jesus. Jesus came to earth being Gods son yet was still fully god when he was born. If you look at Setsuna we see that she was fully sailor Pluto but a different form as if sailor Pluto sent part of herself to another dimension while still staying at the gate of time just as God sent Jesus who is still fully God to earth yet himself remained in heaven. That person who posted above me made me think of this.

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