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 [Theory] Why are the Outer Senshi stronger than the Inner Senshi?

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east02west
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PostSubject: [Theory] Why are the Outer Senshi stronger than the Inner Senshi?   10th January 2016, 6:58 pm

I always found it somewhat strange that the Outer Senshi were equipped with abilities that did actual damage to enemies, whereas the Inner Senshi (with the exception of Mars and Jupiter) were much weaker (The Asteroid senshi are pretty weak, which is somewhat strange considering that their counterparts would be the Shitennou who were actually quite strong.). Does anyone have any theories as to why this would be the case? 

Also, why isn't Jupiter an Outer Senshi? I would have loved to have seen more rivalry between her and Haruka on the basis of their origin myths, though I understand that there was overlap with Japanese mythology and the three taliismans.

Edited to add:

I've come to the conclusion that the farther out into the Solar System one goes, the stronger one is.
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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Why are the Outer Senshi stronger than the Inner Senshi?   11th January 2016, 4:39 pm

My theory would be because they are older (aside from Saturn) and awakened before the inner senshi were. Not to mention they were already together as well so they learned to fight together. I guess that's why they've had more time to become more powerful.
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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Why are the Outer Senshi stronger than the Inner Senshi?   11th January 2016, 5:03 pm

Wouldn't the only one's who would have been awakened earlier have been Haruka and Michiru?

Hotaru only awakens when the three talisman bearers reveal their talismans (IIRC).

Setsuna only become mortal upon her death in the 30th century. I don't quite understand how that works, but that has more to do with Setsuna not having died during Silver Millennium. 

Who would have awakened the Outers?
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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Why are the Outer Senshi stronger than the Inner Senshi?   11th January 2016, 5:07 pm

In the manga, the outer senshi were stronger because they were on the outermost part of the solar system so they could defeat intruders before they made it closer to earth. As for who awoke Haruka and Michiru in the manga, let alone Michiru in the anime, I have no idea.

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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Why are the Outer Senshi stronger than the Inner Senshi?   11th January 2016, 6:03 pm

@east02west wrote:
I always found it somewhat strange that the Outer Senshi were equipped with abilities that did actual damage to enemies, whereas the Inner Senshi (with the exception of Mars and Jupiter) were much weaker (The Asteroid senshi are pretty weak, which is somewhat strange considering that their counterparts would be the Shitennou who were actually quite strong.). Does anyone have any theories as to why this would be the case? 

Also, why isn't Jupiter an Outer Senshi? I would have loved to have seen more rivalry between her and Haruka on the basis of their origin myths, though I understand that there was overlap with Japanese mythology and the three taliismans.

Edited to add:

I've come to the conclusion that the farther out into the Solar System one goes, the stronger one is.

It's not a question of age, but of duty.

The Senshi of the outer solar system were tasked with protecting the Solar System (specifically, the Silver Millennium) from outside threats - threats originating from the darkest part of the system and beyond. Chaos is born in darkness and thirsts for the light - their duty was to find and destroy it before it could ever get close to the Moon Kingdom and its denizens. 

The Guardian Senshi were charged with protecting the Princess from inside threats - threats emerging not of the darkest parts of Chaos, but of the "ordinary" threats brought on by politics and the odd fragment of darkness that originates from within the system, rather than without.

Therefore, the "Outer Senshi" have more raw power than the "Inner Senshi" based on their specific roles and the energy required to fulfill those roles. You don't need a tank to guard a rose from bees - the inner senshi did not need to be as powerful as the outer.

However, after their rebirth, their roles and the energy required to fulfill those roles changed. The Guardian Senshi were now lead by their Princess, and as they were now protecting the Earth from threats that were able to manifest within the system and were lead by a Princess Crystal, their Sailor Crystals allowed them more power to meet the growing threat to their Princess, and so they powered up. 

When the Outer System senshi awakened in S, it was that the system was attacked from without and their duty as Sailor Senshi to face that threat that awoke them - they did not need a catalyst, their original purpose was reengaged. Their power level was still so far above the Guardian Senshi because the Guardian Senshi had not needed to power up to the Outer System level yet; their powers keep up with the enemy as best as they can, rather than move forward in leaps and bounds - it's more energy efficient.

As noticed in Stars, their power levels are relatively the same - with Usagi ascending the throne at her coronation in SuperS, their roles were rewritten - they were no longer broken into factions, Guardian vs Outer System, but one team, the power differences between them no longer necessary as the Guardian Senshi had also risen in strength to be strong enough to face threats from beyond the Solar System. 

We do not know much of the Asteroid Senshi and so cannot judge their levels beyond what we know of them from SuperS, which was that they were so powerful before they awoke as senshi that they posed a threat to Senshi who had faced off against the Death Busters; their future as Guardian Senshi to the Princess of the new Silver Millennium (Crystal Millennium) looks good enough for me.


Jupiter is not an Outer System Senshi based on her relative position within the Solar System, as opposed to her planetary type. Her planet as more in common with the Outer System, but her position is incredibly close as compared to others; Jupiter is at 5 AU, with the inner planets within that; Saturn is at 10 AU, twice as far, and Uranus is at 20 AU, 4 times as far; Neptune is at 30 AU, Pluto at 40 AU -- It would not make sense to have a planetary guardian so close to the inner system working so far away, especially as the guardians used their Castles as bases of operation.



Saturn, with her ability (and purpose) to end all life of an entire era, is objectively the most powerful Solar System Senshi behind the Princess, and she is only 6 of the 8; Pluto's ability to stop time should not be counted as it is not a Senshi ability of hers, but a hereditary one. Uranus and Neptune are shown to be equals with Pluto otherwise; therefore I disagree with your conclusion.

@east02west wrote:
Setsuna only become mortal upon her death in the 30th century. I don't quite understand how that works, but that has more to do with Setsuna not having died during Silver Millennium. 
Sailor Pluto died in the Silver Millennium alongside Sailors Neptune and Uranus upon the scythe drop of Saturn, and was reborn as Setsuna Meioh years before Usagi Tsukino was born; her 30th century counterpart was her first life, and when she died at that point she was reborn in the Silver Millennium to live out her life within our dimension as an Outer System Senshi, while her previous self guarded the time door; At one time there were two young Sailor Pluto's - as Queen Serenity was instructing one to stand by the door for eternity and telling her about the time taboos, the other was already at work in her second life, born without memory of her time at the Gate and getting to protect those she loved without knowing the inevitable outcome. The casuality was protected as the first, original Pluto was out of the dimension.

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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Why are the Outer Senshi stronger than the Inner Senshi?   11th January 2016, 6:23 pm

Sailor Uranus wrote:

Sailor Pluto died in the Silver Millennium alongside Sailors Neptune and Uranus upon the scythe drop of Saturn, and was reborn as Setsuna Meioh years before Usagi Tsukino was born; her 30th century counterpart was her first life, and when she died at that point she was reborn in the Silver Millennium to live out her life within our dimension as an Outer System Senshi, while her previous self guarded the time door; At one time there were two young Sailor Pluto's - as Queen Serenity was instructing one to stand by the door for eternity and telling her about the time taboos, the other was already at work in her second life, born without memory of her time at the Gate and getting to protect those she loved without knowing the inevitable outcome. The casuality was protected as the first, original Pluto was out of the dimension.


*raises hand*

Kyra-sensei I have a question!

So this is probably coming from the fact that I haven't finished the manga yet and the only cannon I'm super familiar with is the anime but, from what I'm getting from your post is:


  • As a child Pluto was instructed to guard the Time Gate by Queen Serenity 
  • She dies in the 30th Century when she stops time 
  • She is reborn in the Silver Millennium to act as a Guardian
  • Saturn kills her along with everyone else 
  • Setsuna is born years before Usagi 
  • All while her first life is guarding the door as it's not yet the 30th century yet 


JTC informed me that the part where she dies in present time for stopping time in the helicopter is anime only cannon and doesn't count towards this. 

So basically you always have two Sailor Pluto's alive, one Guarding the door and then, one alive in the SM, TC and even in the 30th century as Sailor Moon arguably changed the future by going to the future and defeating the Black Moon Clan as she did. 

Am I on track here?

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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Why are the Outer Senshi stronger than the Inner Senshi?   11th January 2016, 7:12 pm

@Addelyn wrote:
Sailor Uranus wrote:

Sailor Pluto died in the Silver Millennium alongside Sailors Neptune and Uranus upon the scythe drop of Saturn, and was reborn as Setsuna Meioh years before Usagi Tsukino was born; her 30th century counterpart was her first life, and when she died at that point she was reborn in the Silver Millennium to live out her life within our dimension as an Outer System Senshi, while her previous self guarded the time door; At one time there were two young Sailor Pluto's - as Queen Serenity was instructing one to stand by the door for eternity and telling her about the time taboos, the other was already at work in her second life, born without memory of her time at the Gate and getting to protect those she loved without knowing the inevitable outcome. The casuality was protected as the first, original Pluto was out of the dimension.


*raises hand*

Kyra-sensei I have a question!

So this is probably coming from the fact that I haven't finished the manga yet and the only cannon I'm super familiar with is the anime but, from what I'm getting from your post is:


  • As a child Pluto was instructed to guard the Time Gate by Queen Serenity 
  • She dies in the 30th Century when she stops time 
  • She is reborn in the Silver Millennium to act as a Guardian
  • Saturn kills her along with everyone else 
  • Setsuna is born years before Usagi 
  • All while her first life is guarding the door as it's not yet the 30th century yet 


JTC informed me that the part where she dies in present time for stopping time in the helicopter is anime only cannon and doesn't count towards this. 

So basically you always have two Sailor Pluto's alive, one Guarding the door and then, one alive in the SM, TC and even in the 30th century as Sailor Moon arguably changed the future by going to the future and defeating the Black Moon Clan as she did. 

Am I on track here?
Yep! ^^

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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Why are the Outer Senshi stronger than the Inner Senshi?   16th January 2016, 11:35 pm

@east02west wrote:
Wouldn't the only one's who would have been awakened earlier have been Haruka and Michiru?

Hotaru only awakens when the three talisman bearers reveal their talismans (IIRC).


I think in that case it's because Hotaru holds the most powerful weapon ever.
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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Why are the Outer Senshi stronger than the Inner Senshi?   27th January 2016, 9:31 am

They said that because the outer senshi needed to protect the whole solar system from outside attacks they needed stronger powers.  Whereas the inner senshi only needed to protect their queen and princess they didn't need strong powers.
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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Why are the Outer Senshi stronger than the Inner Senshi?   15th February 2016, 4:23 pm

Right.

But it stands to reason that since Pharaoh 90 entered our solar system at some point during Hotaru's youth, that the Outers would have been fighting/researching Chaos well before Minako and the rest of the Inners were awakened.

I suspect the Setsuna was the one to awaken Haruka and Michiru, or some sort of mystical event occurred whereby all three were awakened simultaneously. That would mean that they were at most tracking Hotaru all of those years in the event that Saturn decided to awaken within her. Other than that, I would assume that the Outers were not all that concerned with Metallia-Beryl's awakening as that did not concern them, which in turn triggered the awakening of Minako as leader of the Inner guard. However, wouldn't that hint at them having been aware of the Inner Senshi's awakening during the Black Moon Arc, and the revelation of Princess Serenity and the Silver Crystal? Shouldn't we have had at most some sort of vague recollection and tie in between the preceding arcs and the introduction of the Outers within the Infinity Arc wherein they say something about having been aware of the Princess' awakening, but not getting involved for 'x' reason? Wouldn't Setsuna have sensed a disturbance in the 20th century when ChibiUsa time traveled? 


I kind of wish Luna would have been more involved with the Outers, because I've always found her to be more mature. Luna and Setsuna's characters seem suited to one another's personalities. However, I understand the whole decoy princess story line needing to be played out.


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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Why are the Outer Senshi stronger than the Inner Senshi?   15th February 2016, 6:08 pm

Sailor Uranus wrote:
Sailor Pluto died in the Silver Millennium alongside Sailors Neptune and Uranus upon the scythe drop of Saturn, and was reborn as Setsuna Meioh years before Usagi Tsukino was born;her 30th century counterpart was her first life, and when she died at that point she was reborn in the Silver Millennium to live out her life within our dimension as an Outer System Senshi, while her previous self guarded the time door; At one time there were two young Sailor Pluto's - as Queen Serenity was instructing one to stand by the door for eternity and telling her about the time taboos, the other was already at work in her second life, born without memory of her time at the Gate and getting to protect those she loved without knowing the inevitable outcome. The casuality was protected as the first, original Pluto was out of the dimension.

mind blown*

Wohaaa hold it there...what? how come she was reborn in the silver millennium era? that makes no sense...if she was reborn in that time, she should have reborn once again as sailor pluto, not setsuna, because that was her human name when she died in the 30th century and was reborn in the 21st ._.

*reads the info 10 times to process this better*

So...we have 2 sailor pluto?...that still makes no sense to me

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PostSubject: Re: [Theory] Why are the Outer Senshi stronger than the Inner Senshi?   15th February 2016, 7:36 pm

The only way this makes sense is if we accept that there are parallel timelines.

The problem is that Naoko introduced material later on into the series which conflicts with what we're informed of earlier.

Sailor Pluto doesn't quite seem to recognize Usagi, Mamoru, or Minako (or for that matter Luna or Artemis) when they arrive at the Gate of Time. That incarnation of Pluto had never died, or met them during the Infinity Arc.

The Pluto of Silver Millennium (which may as well have been the same age as the Inner senshi at the time of Princess Serenity's birth) was apparently being instructed by Queen Serenity on her duties as guardian of the Door of Time. The Pluto of the 30th century seems to recall that.  It would appear that she lived through the end of Silver Millennium up until the 30th century uninterrupted. The Pluto of Act 28 informs ChibiUsa that she is the very Pluto of the 30th century reincarnated through the agency of Neo Queen Serenity, not Queen Serenity.

It's a continuity error within the series, or demands that we reconcile the problem by admitting parallel timelines/dimensions wherein multiple incarnations of the senshi exist and travel between dimensions. There would be a limitless number of Plutos, just as there would be a limitless number of Serenitys etc. While this is admissible, that facet of the Senshi world is not adequately developed. We never get an explanation for how the death of the senshi at the end of the Silver Millennium allowed them to surpass the Galaxy Cauldron. Up until Dreams we're under the impression that the Silver Crystal allows for resurrection and reincarnation to take place. 

I know some people may disagree on this particular point with me, but I still think in accord with the continuity of the Dark Kingdom through the Dark Moon that we can at least assume that Queen Serenity would have gone to the Door of Time and instructed Pluto to allow them to travel in time to a future where they would be able to live in peace. This likewise would explain Luna and Artemis being sent forward into time in suspended animation (It also means that Luna and Artemis are QUITE old. Maybe even older than Pluto?). That however doesn't resolve why Beryl, and the Shitennou would be reborn in the future. The only resolution would be that *all* life, not solely that of the senshi is born in the Galaxy Cauldron. What was so special about Beryl that she'd need to be reborn in the future? She was just a mortal woman that didn't possess a Sailor Crystal.

I chalk it up to a continuity error on Naoko's part.
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