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 [Debate] Why was Beryl reborn?

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east02west
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PostSubject: [Debate] Why was Beryl reborn?    16th February 2016, 9:21 am

I'm debating whether this is the best place to make this entry, because it would appear to be a more general Sailor Moon question. If the mods feel that to be the case, they are more than welcome to move it there.

I work with the head canon (and I believe this is supported by the manga) that *all* life has its source and origin within the Galaxy Cauldron, with only particular crystals ever becoming Sailor Crystals (I cite Phobos and Deimos as canon for the possibility of guardianship passing between hands.). Others on the other hand cite that solely Sailor Crystals enter the Galaxy Cauldron and are thus reborn when the time calls for it, which is why all re-incarnate senshi look like their past incarnations. think the rationale for the latter argument was that Naoko didn't opt to employ new character designs when developing the transmigration of souls plot. So we're left with humanoid characters (with the exception of Mamoru) who look identical to their past selves implanting themselves in the wombs of mortals.This however gets into murkier territory, because we never quite get a resolution for why they chose to be born into particular families, and their relationship to those families. This conflict was initially explored with Serenity's awakening in the Dark Moon Arc, and later with Usagi's conflict in Stars when Star Fighter sees their bodies/lives as being of secondary importance (I know that some here object to the discussion of religion here, but I do think that there is an underlying current of philosophy, Western and Eastern religious traditions, and mythologies which inform the series.). But I digress.

Given that Beryl did not have a Sailor Crystal, or its equivalent, why was she reborn? What was so special about her that demanded she reawaken in this timeline? Was she truly the Beryl of the past, or did Chaos implant those memories within her? Was her re-awakening inevitable, and if not, what would that have meant for her life, and that of the senshi later on? Could Beryl have grown detached from Endymion/Mamoru, and gone on to live a normal life? Who is to say that she'd make the same mistakes of her previous life? 

This got my thinking about the exchange at the Galaxy Cauldron and the wedding scene at the end of Stars in relation to the whole of the series. I sincerely think that the timeline was rebooted towards the end of Stars. Usagi didn't necessarily elect to go the route of Neo-Queen Serenity or Sailor Cosmos (I however have a head canon that it's actually the original Queen Serenity, or a Kousagi unknown to us.), but that w'ere left to decide for ourselves what fate she elected for her and her loved ones. After all, they all had  seen and experienced what those alternative timelines would bring, and thus her decision towards the end averted that fate for them all. This does give me cause in relation to the Asteroid senshi, but for now I'd like to focus on Beryl's reincarnation, transmigration of souls within the Sailor Moon universe, and matters of continuity.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Why was Beryl reborn?    16th February 2016, 10:55 am

In terms of the Galaxy Cauldron, it was stated that all life starts there-even those without sailor crystals. I think Beryl was reborn just because; though It was kinda weird and unnecessary that they had her be a normal human until she stumbled upon the cave and WHAM suddenly full blown evil again.

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magic713
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Why was Beryl reborn?    16th February 2016, 10:57 am

I thought that Metallia might have been behind Beryl being reborn. So once the Silver Millenium was gone, Metallia found a way to ensure her servant could be reborn to awaken her into the present day.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Why was Beryl reborn?    16th February 2016, 11:01 am

*facepalms* DUH HOW COULD I FORGET ABOUT METALLIA!

Pretty sure that's how it happened, she found some sort of lingering power of metallia in that cave in the north pole, at least in the manga/crystal. Though it would have been nice to learn about who she was before the entire evil reboot-or if it had been caught earlier enough, if her evil awakening could have been prevented.

That might be another debate topic though.

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east02west
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Why was Beryl reborn?    16th February 2016, 11:58 am

Do we ever get any indication that Metallia had those sorta of abilities to send people into the future?

I'm curious, because Metallia seems to be a very different figure than all later manifestations of Chaos. Metallia doesn't quite seem to have a body, but rather just acts as a nebulous force behind the scenes (In retrospect I take Metallia to be Chaos proper.). This only gets further complicated in the Dreams Arc with the introduction of Queen Nehelenia who is a manifestation of Chaos from the time of Usagi's birth. As such, she is much older than Metallia.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Why was Beryl reborn?    16th February 2016, 12:05 pm

@magic713 wrote:
I thought that Metallia might have been behind Beryl being reborn. So once the Silver Millenium was gone, Metallia found a way to ensure her servant could be reborn to awaken her into the present day.


I agree with this too, remember that Beryl already was under the influence of metalia when she attacked the silver millennium.

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east02west
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Why was Beryl reborn?    16th February 2016, 12:55 pm

Wait a minute, are we working with my head canon here, that the Sailor Wars go back to the time of Silver Millennium? 

If so,is it possible that both Chaos and Cosmos being merged with the Galaxy cauldron resulted in them both being able to summon people into existence, or at most implant their consciousness into people on Earth like them?

All we know about Beryl is that she was  researcher who happened upon the remains of the Dark Kingdom in Antartica, however we have no indication that she ever knew Endymion in his incarnation as Mamoru (or for that matter that they were on the same continent). All we know is that when she becomes Queen Beryl is that she yearns/lusts for Mamoru-Endymion who apparently has absolutely no recollection of her. Beryl thus comes off like a distant character as opposed to one which is more intimately involved in this new incarnation of theirs. I think it would have been better to have had Beryl be a fellow student, even a friend of Usagi (I sometimes wonder whether Molly was intended to be Beryl...) so as to create the necessary tension in the series.

I mean we still have absolutely no indication as to how Usagi and Mamoru declare themselves sovereigns over the entire Earth. They no longer live in that world, why would the nations comply?
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Why was Beryl reborn?    25th February 2016, 7:02 am

Adding to the complexity of the issue, would Metallia/Chaos have been responsible for summoning/awakening the Shitennou? If so, can we assume that Shitennou all lived in their respective kingdoms of old (sans kingdom), and were thus drawn/teleported away from their civilian lives by Beryl, or are we to assume that they like the Amazon Quartet were dormant stones who were awakened from their slumber?

I kind of like the idea of them all being scattered across the globe, and being drawn back to where Mamoru was reborn. That would have actually been a nice alternative means for introducing the remainder of the senshi within the series. I'm not sure why, but I always picture Minako being from France,Haruka being from Russia, and Beryl being an American researcher.

Lastly, any theories for why Beryl had horns jutting out from her soldiers, and whether she may have had a more benevolent role, but through jealousy of Usagi became corrupted? By benevolent I mean that she would have been something of an oracle/sage on Earth who advised Prince Endymion and his Shitennou.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Why was Beryl reborn?    25th February 2016, 12:45 pm

@east02west wrote:
Adding to the complexity of the issue, would Metallia/Chaos have been responsible for summoning/awakening the Shitennou? If so, can we assume that Shitennou all lived in their respective kingdoms of old (sans kingdom), and were thus drawn/teleported away from their civilian lives by Beryl, or are we to assume that they like the Amazon Quartet were dormant stones who were awakened from their slumber?

I kind of like the idea of them all being scattered across the globe, and being drawn back to where Mamoru was reborn. That would have actually been a nice alternative means for introducing the remainder of the senshi within the series. I'm not sure why, but I always picture Minako being from France,Haruka being from Russia, and Beryl being an American researcher.

Lastly, any theories for why Beryl had horns jutting out from her soldiers, and whether she may have had a more benevolent role, but through jealousy of Usagi became corrupted? By benevolent I mean that she would have been something of an oracle/sage on Earth who advised Prince Endymion and his Shitennou.
I think it was in Act 9 (Kodansha version) where after the Silver Crystal is revealed, Kunzite remembers that he and his comrades were reborn as normal humans to find Endymion, but they didn't have their memories. Beryl found them first and enslaved them again.

Now here's where I speculate: Since they didn't have their memories, they were unknowingly searching for Endymion, but Beryl found each of them first. I think she, in some way, killed them, and corrupted their stones to recreate the Shitennou as her minions. It would certainly explain why the dead Shitennou's bodies dissolved, leaving behind stones: because their bodies were corrupted form and the stones themselves were purified.

I think the horns were just a fashion design. She might have been something better like a sage or some practitioner of magic, but the once she saw Endymion was in love with Serenity, she chose to sell her soul to the devil and that was the end of any good within her

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Why was Beryl reborn?    6th March 2016, 4:55 pm

For me, I think that Beryl wasn't exactly "killed"/"destroyed" when the Silver Millennium fell, but was put into a deep, deep sleep and was awaken by Metallia.
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east02west
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Why was Beryl reborn?    6th March 2016, 5:00 pm

Not possible.

We're informed that Beryl was reborn as a researcher doing research in Antartica.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Why was Beryl reborn?    15th March 2016, 3:20 pm

My memory's a little off, was that revealed in the manga or another Sailor Moon series like the Live Action or musicals because I don't remember that it said she was reborn and it was up for speculation.

I don't recall the anime clarifying this either, can we get the act reference number?
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east02west
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Why was Beryl reborn?    15th March 2016, 4:05 pm

I don't have the act number, but it's from the first arc:

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