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 Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?

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PostSubject: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   29th April 2016, 8:48 pm

I remember growing up as a Sailor Moon fan, it seemed like Sailor Stars was like tied with S as the most popular season of Sailor Moon.   Everyone loved the Starlights, Galaxia, the Usagi/Seiya romance, and the return to a darker storyline after the more comedy focused SuperS.  Nowadays it seems like most people in the Sailor Moon fandom seem to really hate Sailor Stars for some reason.   Like I agree that the season has a lot of flaws in the writing and it's not always the most perfect season and I'm personally more of a Mamoru fan than a Seiya fan myself, but I don't see how Sailor Stars is that much worse than the other seasons, which also have a lot of flaws in the writing and things that don't always make sense.   There are some aspects of Seiya that I agree are problematic but it seems like a lot of fans think she's like the worst character ever and that there was never anything good about her relationship with Usagi.   Even with the manga, which most fans used to say was a lot better, it seems like there's a lot more fans now who consider it to be Naoko's worst arc ever and are already being cynical towards any potential Crystal adaptation of it.   I wonder if like ten years from now, will S be the most hated season and will there be a backlash to Haruka and Michiru in another decade?
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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   29th April 2016, 8:55 pm

A lot of those I know who hate this arc doesn't like the fact that the three of Kakyuu's guardians take a lot more place than the inners (or the outers) which pisses them off. Or Seiya's kiss (which I won't go into the debate on please). Or the lack of Mamoru x Usagi.

I have to admit I love this arc (though I don't really like the manga arc, even if I love the characters to bits). I guess it all depends on how you see it.

People also bash on every arc depending on their personal preferences (or will complain about the fillers). I think it's less the fault of the writing or plot or whatever than it is the fault of preferences. We're all different and we all love things differently, whether it's nicely written or not.

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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   29th April 2016, 8:59 pm

I think a lot of people's main issue with Seiya's relationship with Usagi in the anime is Seiya basically pushed himself/herself on Usagi despite Usagi saying no numerous times. (I'm just gonna stick to the pronoun I'm used to since I'm confusing myself now) Basically Usagi told him not to call her 'odango' and he never listened, and then he invited himself on a date with her even though she also said no (Yeah ok she came, but she's Usagi. She doesn't like turning people down).

And then the icing on the cake is when Usagi showed herself at her most vulnerable, when she broke down about all the crap about Mamoru and how she's missing him, Seiya turns it into something about him. (Am I not good enough?) Which is so not the point and comes across as extremely selfish >.> What about Usagi's feelings?

That's why I like Seiya a lot better in the manga, cause she doesn't come off as forceful.

I love the manga stars arc, but it introduces a lot of things - lots of BIG things - that went unexplored/unexplained which I think is the major disappointment. Also how everyone is killed off like they can't even do anything. But I personally really like the final battle at the Galaxy Cauldron and all the new things introduced to us.

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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   29th April 2016, 9:37 pm

I love the manga Stars arc, but, see, one of my favorite things about it is how ambiguous it is. It introduces these huge, wild concepts, expanding their world in leaps and bounds that Nehelenia only teased us with, and left it open to interpretation so people would world-build to their hearts content. Now, like everyone I definitely have my pet peeves about differences in interpretations (cause my explanation/thoughts/ideas/headcanons are  so everyone else should listen to  because mine makes  etc. etc.) but the sandbox is real and it's there and you can pull so much out of the little peek she gave you.

And that whole arc - everything Usagi had to go through - I love it so much - I feel like it's such a perfect ending to her story arc, and proves that the future they saw is not set in stone because from what we saw at the Cauldron, Usagi would never banish people to that moon, which would then violate the entire series unless you bring in parallel universes, and bam open door for parallel worlds with wherein things happened or things didn't happen and it's a writer's dream

That said, I hated the anime.

I hated the anime because I had read and loved the manga.

I hated the anime because the opening song was about flying through space after the person you loved, facing dangers with your Senshi at your side, able to face down the Universe itself to get that person back. The opener was epic and wonderful and made so many promises --

And the anime delivered nothing of that promise.

When I first saw it I was so excited, but as my sister and I sat through all the episodes we were not invested at all, because it quickly became "The Starlights Show, featuring Sailor Moon yayyyy" but, to add insult to this injury and injustice of not getting at all what was promised, the main characters - the three lights, had zero development. They were constantly "discovering" things time and time again as the series progressed and it was like they were MIB blasted at the end of every episode and retained nothing. They didn't even work with the spark of a compelling backstory and play with those emotions, instead trying to shove their SeiyaxUsagi pairing at us in, even as an early teen, the most disrespectful way to me, as a girl who respected Usagi and wished for others to respect her choices and decisions. 


Ug I could rage for days about the character they made for Seiya and every choice they expressed through them. 


And then, insult to injury, they didn't leave planet Earth once. I didn't get my Evil Senshi. I got senshi who died for the Starlights >/ who then repeatedly forgot that the senshi had died for them and with their dying breath asked they watch over Usagi. Repeatedly. Repeatedly. "Who should we fight for now?" jeez, idk, hmm. let's think. 


I'm salty about the stars anime, the end.




... but I'm super excited about Crystal Stars, but at the same time a little nervous about what loopholes they'll close or definitively answer. 

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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   29th April 2016, 10:36 pm

Sailor Uranus wrote:
I love the manga Stars arc, but, see, one of my favorite things about it is how ambiguous it is. It introduces these huge, wild concepts, expanding their world in leaps and bounds that Nehelenia only teased us with, and left it open to interpretation so people would world-build to their hearts content. Now, like everyone I definitely have my pet peeves about differences in interpretations (cause my explanation/thoughts/ideas/headcanons are  so everyone else should listen to  because mine makes  etc. etc.) but the sandbox is real and it's there and you can pull so much out of the little peek she gave you.

And that whole arc - everything Usagi had to go through - I love it so much - I feel like it's such a perfect ending to her story arc, and proves that the future they saw is not set in stone because from what we saw at the Cauldron, Usagi would never banish people to that moon, which would then violate the entire series unless you bring in parallel universes, and bam open door for parallel worlds with wherein things happened or things didn't happen and it's a writer's dream



I'll never forgive Sailor Stars for removing Galaxia's complexity and literally everything that made her interesting to have her be a 'good' senshi that was possessed by Chaos. GIVE ME GALAXIA WHO RUTHLESSLY DESTROYS PLANETS JUST BECAUSE SHE CAN.

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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   29th April 2016, 10:36 pm

Sailor Mercury wrote:
I think a lot of people's main issue with Seiya's relationship with Usagi in the anime is Seiya basically pushed himself/herself on Usagi despite Usagi saying no numerous times. (I'm just gonna stick to the pronoun I'm used to since I'm confusing myself now) Basically Usagi told him not to call her 'odango' and he never listened, and then he invited himself on a date with her even though she also said no (Yeah ok she came, but she's Usagi. She doesn't like turning people down).

And then the icing on the cake is when Usagi showed herself at her most vulnerable, when she broke down about all the crap about Mamoru and how she's missing him, Seiya turns it into something about him. (Am I not good enough?) Which is so not the point and comes across as extremely selfish >.> What about Usagi's feelings?

I agree that there are a lot of problematic issues about Seiya's relationship with Usagi but there are also a lot of problematic issues with Mamoru's relationship with Usagi, yet many of those same fans also have no problems accepting Mamoru as a character and their relationship while still being critical of his flaws.   I think one can be critical of Seiya but still like the aspects of her character that were good like her unwavering support for Usagi, the way she always tried to cheer her up, and her goofy comedy moments that were always a lot of fun, and the way she always fought to protect Usagi.    As I said, I am more of a Mamoru fan myself but I used to be a Seiya/Usagi fan when I was younger, so I can still see a lot of what that appeal was to a lot of the fans back then, and I always appreciated the idea of Usagi being in a relationship with a gender fluid character.   But it seems like years ago when Sailor Moon was still on Cartoon Network, it was Mamoru who was the most hated character, and a lot of fans despised him back then and I remember a lot of fans wishing Usagi would hook up with Seiya so the show could kill off Chibi-usa, which even back then I always thought was a bit of an extreme reaction.   Nowadays it almost seems like it's reversed and most fans now seem to really hate Seiya and Mamoru is suddenly popular again even though back then, everyone called Mamoru an abusive creeper.   I just think we can have a more nuanced appreciation for these characters while still being critical of their flaws besides either absolute adoration or absolute hatred.
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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   29th April 2016, 10:38 pm

While it is one of my favorite seasons, I do wish it had followed the manga more. The lack of chibiusa/sailor cosmos was a big hit, but not so much as usagi's character change in comparison.

In the stars arc of the manga, while she was in distress over the losses, she grew angry and proceeded to kick galaxia's ass and later use that same determination to save everyone in the galaxy cauldron. In the anime....she just sorta cried as the starlights shielded her from each blow. Where was that fearlessness determination that she showed in the manga? Also people really hate seiya for having a crush on usagi for some reason. Like, how DARE there be another romance figure for usagi other then mamoru! The way I see it, seiya was in despair over her princess, and Usagi was the same for mamoru. People in incredible pain tend to seek each other out.

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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   29th April 2016, 11:03 pm

Sailor Mars wrote:
I'll never forgive Sailor Stars for removing Galaxia's complexity and literally everything that made her interesting to have her be a 'good' senshi that was possessed by Chaos. GIVE ME GALAXIA WHO RUTHLESSLY DESTROYS PLANETS JUST BECAUSE SHE CAN.

I think actually Galaxia was less complex in the manga? She wasn't good trying to be a sole hero in the wrong way and eventually ended up corrupted, she's just sick of being trash from a trash planet so she wants power. I find her much simpler in the manga, but also more compelling. We never really understand Galaxia's motivation in the anime IMO (which means for all intents and purposes she might as well have been evil just because [she's corrupted]) which just goes to show that sometimes simpler is better and that a more complicated background doesn't necessarily equal quality.

@Neon Genesis wrote:
I agree that there are a lot of problematic issues about Seiya's relationship with Usagi but there are also a lot of problematic issues with Mamoru's relationship with Usagi, yet many of those same fans also have no problems accepting Mamoru as a character and their relationship while still being critical of his flaws.   I think one can be critical of Seiya but still like the aspects of her character that were good like her unwavering support for Usagi, the way she always tried to cheer her up, and her goofy comedy moments that were always a lot of fun, and the way she always fought to protect Usagi.    As I said, I am more of a Mamoru fan myself but I used to be a Seiya/Usagi fan when I was younger, so I can still see a lot of what that appeal was to a lot of the fans back then, and I always appreciated the idea of Usagi being in a relationship with a gender fluid character.   But it seems like years ago when Sailor Moon was still on Cartoon Network, it was Mamoru who was the most hated character, and a lot of fans despised him back then and I remember a lot of fans wishing Usagi would hook up with Seiya so the show could kill off Chibi-usa, which even back then I always thought was a bit of an extreme reaction.   Nowadays it almost seems like it's reversed and most fans now seem to really hate Seiya and Mamoru is suddenly popular again even though back then, everyone called Mamoru an abusive creeper.   I just think we can have a more nuanced appreciation for these characters while still being critical of their flaws besides either absolute adoration or absolute hatred.

Could you elaborate on the problems with Mamoru's relationship with Usagi? I think I'm mostly only familiar with the whole sleeping-while-intoxicated thing, but other than that (and the break up arc maybe?) I don't see anything else problematic from it? Especially not as an abusive creeper o.o

Most importantly, though, for me, is that Usagi's choices are respected. She chose him, so that's why I support their relationship.

@Cosmos-Hime wrote:
Also people really hate seiya for having a crush on usagi for some reason. Like, how DARE there be another romance figure for usagi other then mamoru! The way I see it, seiya was in despair over her princess, and Usagi was the same for mamoru. People in incredible pain tend to seek each other out.

If you read my earlier post, all the reasons people dislike Seiya are detailed there. It's not just because Usagi got another love interest o.o That's oversimplifying it. Personally I never saw Usagi seeking Seiya out in the anime. S/he repeatedly pushed him/herself into her life.

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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   30th April 2016, 1:47 am

Tbh, I wasn't a big fan of the Stars season. I felt put off because as Kyra had mentioned, it basically became the Starlights show and they were pretty much replacing everyone and it was just unsettling for me. 

Now Seiya... I remember a time many moons ago on GC I debated fiercely over this and at the time I think I was largely misunderstood. Because my stance is (and still is): Seiya's personality fits Usagi's more. There. I said it. And it does. I know Mamoru is supposed to be like stoic and mysterious and all that and obviously he meshes absolutely fine with Usagi. I don't hate Mamoru - I just acknowledge what meshes and what shouldn't really mesh. My issue though with Seiya is like everyone elses: Usagi tells Seiya over and over no and Seiya doesn't back off. She keeps pushing. She forces herself onto Usagi. I think it turned into one of those things where "when a girl says no she doesn't really mean no, she's saying try harder". Which...is problematic.

That aside, I do love love love the idea of Usagi being more pansexual and Seiya is gender-fluid or even just remains a girl and Usagi having feelings for a girl. It complicates the story. It shows Usagi, no matter how angelic, messiah-like she is, she is still actually human. It also shows that the future isn't set in stone. I love love love Chibiusa but with the way life works, Chibiusa was only one outcome of the future. She shouldn't be THE only outcome like she is. So I love that this is kind of messed with. 

In all, I'm gonna have to say I don't like Stars because of the Starlights taking over. It feels like an out of place story arc. 

@Merc: I wouldn't say Mamoru is abusive either but I would say Mamoru is problematic. In PGSM, even when he IS Usagi's boyfriend, he still acts like he doesn't like her. At all. And acts like she's just pure embarrassment. In the anime, while not as extreme as PGSM, it felt like Mamoru didn't quite like Usagi either but was with her because...he had to be. And as Tuxedo Mask, he had to save her. I'd almost want to say in the anime, Mamoru and Tuxedo Mask were almost different characters in a way o_o idk though I'm just taking a stab at this.

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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   30th April 2016, 5:02 am

So I haven't seen the Stars anime yet, but I have read the manga. I think the reason why people may not like the manga arc is because it's very fasted paced and is all over very quickly. And I also heard someone say once that the Starlights and Kakyuu didn't really get enough development and characterization or something? I don't really care for the Starlights in general that much (though Princess Kakyuu is pretty freaking awesome), so it wasn't a problem for me. 
Also, on the Seiya, Usagi, and Mamoru situation, I don't think Usagi liked Seiya. She was (and always will be) in love with Mamoru, and she might have just been being nice to her. 
Then again I am a huge UsaMamo fan so I'm biased.

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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   30th April 2016, 8:18 am

@Sailor Zelda wrote:
And I also heard someone say once that the Starlights and Kakyuu didn't really get enough development and characterization or something?
In the manga they were more a plot device than characters - they were there to show that a) senshi exist outside the solar system, b) really bad stuff is going on, and c) to be backup disaster fodder for when things went wrong at the cauldron. Kakyuu's only point in the manga was to deliver plot and to die and deliver a line about how even other princesses look up to and want to be near Usagi, and plays with the notion that she could be reborn on Earth and fight by Usagi's side. 

When the anime tried to flesh them out, they had very little to work with and they overworked that 'very little'. >.> and took one ambiguous line Seiya commented about Usagi being out of her league way too far.

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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   30th April 2016, 8:23 am

Sailor Uranus wrote:
@Sailor Zelda wrote:
And I also heard someone say once that the Starlights and Kakyuu didn't really get enough development and characterization or something?
In the manga they were more a plot device than characters - they were there to show that a) senshi exist outside the solar system, b) really bad stuff is going on, and c) to be backup disaster fodder for when things went wrong at the cauldron. Kakyuu's only point in the manga was to deliver plot and to die and deliver a line about how even other princesses look up to and want to be near Usagi, and plays with the notion that she could be reborn on Earth and fight by Usagi's side. 

When the anime tried to flesh them out, they had very little to work with and they overworked that 'very little'. >.> and took one ambiguous line Seiya commented about Usagi being out of her league way too far.

I don't remember much of the manga Mad so thanks for that, Kyra. I quite like that.

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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   30th April 2016, 8:40 am

I agree that Seiya's personality fits Usagi more. I wrote a comparison of how Seiya/Usagi and Mamoru/Usagi fit in my Tumblr forever ago. Despite that though the problem is Usagi didn't want to be with Seiya, so to me it doesn't matter at the end of the day.

A lot of people say Mamoru is cold/distant/doesn't love Usagi or treat her like crap, but I never see that? Mamoru is an introvert. Beside Usagi, who is an uber lovey-dovey touchy-feely person, of course he would seem cold and distant and maybe even apathetic. As an introvert myself who has an introvert dad I see ourselves in Mamoru, and that doesn't mean we don't love people. Just because we don't show it doesn't mean we don't love them. I think a lot of people misunderstand Mamoru because he's not outgoing like Usagi or, yes, Seiya. But when things matter, Mamoru shows over and over again how supportive and loyal he is to Usagi, especially in the manga.

I'm sure Kyra can wax poetic about this more though xD Also PGSM Mamoru is super awkward. His proposal is the worst but he tries because he loves her and that's why I love this complete and utter awkward baby dork.

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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   30th April 2016, 8:44 am

Sailor Mercury wrote:
I agree that Seiya's personality fits Usagi more. I wrote a comparison of how Seiya/Usagi and Mamoru/Usagi fit in my Tumblr forever ago. Despite that though the problem is Usagi didn't want to be with Seiya, so to me it doesn't matter at the end of the day.

A lot of people say Mamoru is cold/distant/doesn't love Usagi or treat her like crap, but I never see that? Mamoru is an introvert. Beside Usagi, who is an uber lovey-dovey touchy-feely person, of course he would seem cold and distant and maybe even apathetic. As an introvert myself who has an introvert dad I see ourselves in Mamoru, and that doesn't mean we don't love people. Just because we don't show it doesn't mean we don't love them. I think a lot of people misunderstand Mamoru because he's not outgoing like Usagi or, yes, Seiya. But when things matter, Mamoru shows over and over again how supportive and loyal he is to Usagi, especially in the manga.

I'm sure Kyra can wax poetic about this more though xD Also PGSM Mamoru is super awkward. His proposal is the worst but he tries because he loves her and that's why I love this complete and utter awkward baby dork.
Fair point. I, too, am an introvert and we all handle our introvertedness differently. Tbf, my own partner is a bit introverted as well and she's not exactly Mrs affectionate or anything but I know she loves me. ♡

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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   30th April 2016, 9:30 am

I would like to start saying, Stars WILL ALWAYS be forever and ever my favorite arc, both in manga and anime.

In my opinion they only reasons people complain are:

1. Seiya the pushover exist he/she shouldn't but w.e.
2. People that had the chance to watch the anime (like me) or read the manga were young, and to be honest, we didn't paid much attention to details or at least we didn't think through the amount of questions this arc leaves and we don't get answers.
3. We became young adults and read/watch the whole thing again and started to ask questions and realized the 'flaws' and a lot of unanswered questions.
4. As humans we tend to compare things like is a sport. this have always bothered me why do people need to compare things? this is my issue with people comping the 90's anime with crystal for god's sake they are 2 completely different things!
5. Main characters become 'extras' in this arc while new characters (starlights) becomes almost main characters, which is a horrible balance.
6. Seiya being a pushover. yes i hate him/her
7. Mamoru 'dies'. is this a telenovela?

Also, they only reason Seiya fits Usagi is because they are both teens and they understand each other's feelings and all that stuff, but that's just my opinion and my stubbornness refuses to see other reasons.

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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   30th April 2016, 9:35 am

Well what's interesting is to think: will Usagi change? Will she "grow up" and meet the mindset she supposedly has as NQS? Banishing and all? Or will she remain the same? She's very reluctant I think to adopt such roles that are harsh. 

Now we don't know much about Seiya so I can't compliment there but for the time being, yeah, she meshes well with Usagi and I think that makes people mad. Like how dare Usagi like someone else?? But again, I cannot emphasise this enough, she's human. It happens. 

I guess this is mostly why I'm more mixed on this arc. Honestly I need to rewatch it yet again (and probably read the manga).

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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   30th April 2016, 9:36 am

Sailor Mercury wrote:
I agree that Seiya's personality fits Usagi more. I wrote a comparison of how Seiya/Usagi and Mamoru/Usagi fit in my Tumblr forever ago. Despite that though the problem is Usagi didn't want to be with Seiya, so to me it doesn't matter at the end of the day.

A lot of people say Mamoru is cold/distant/doesn't love Usagi or treat her like crap, but I never see that? Mamoru is an introvert. Beside Usagi, who is an uber lovey-dovey touchy-feely person, of course he would seem cold and distant and maybe even apathetic. As an introvert myself who has an introvert dad I see ourselves in Mamoru, and that doesn't mean we don't love people. Just because we don't show it doesn't mean we don't love them. I think a lot of people misunderstand Mamoru because he's not outgoing like Usagi or, yes, Seiya. But when things matter, Mamoru shows over and over again how supportive and loyal he is to Usagi, especially in the manga.

I'm sure Kyra can wax poetic about this more though xD Also PGSM Mamoru is super awkward. His proposal is the worst but he tries because he loves her and that's why I love this complete and utter awkward baby dork.
The issue a lot of fans had with Mamoru was that whole breakup subplot in the 90s anime.  The whole "I'm breaking up with you and going out of my way to make you feel bad to protect you!" was considered highly problematic.  Like why didn't Mamoru just talk to Usagi about his dream, especially since he ended up doing that by the end of the season anyway?   It all felt very much like unneeded drama for the sake of drama and ruined Mamoru's reputation for many years.   It reminds me a lot of the Twlight books with Edward breaking up with Bella and making her feel like crap for the sake of trying to save her.  I do agree Seiya pushing herself on Usagi was problematic and I wish they handled that better.  On the other hand, this whole love/hate relationship thing is a common trope with a lot of popular shoujo anime couples like Sakura/Syaoran, Miaka/Tamahome, and even to some extent, Usagi/Mamoru argued and fought with each other alot throughout the first season and hated each other, then suddenly they were all fighting for each other and in love because of destiny.
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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   30th April 2016, 10:02 am

IMO, Seiya's personality fits Usagi's more because they're both extroverts/outgoing people. But then again, sometimes opposites attract so two people with similar personalities won't necessarily be happier than opposites.

Nobody likes the break up arc, but I somewhat understand why Mamoru did it. It ties again into his introvert side. He's been alone all his life, with no family, with no one to depend on. When he encounters trouble, of course he'll internalize it. His first instinct wouldn't be to tell anyone else about it because he's never had anyone (and his relationship with Usagi is still so new, and he also wants to protect her). It's a logical character choice from my perspective. Still, it's not my favorite mainly because it was resolved in a very abrupt way. Like I'm not even sure until now what they actually did to fix it.

I don't think they fell in love because of destiny, though. Usagi started falling for him and him for her before their past memories came back (notable in the episode right before Serenity awakened, Usagi declared that she used to hate Mamoru the most but now he's number two on her list. And they were trying to protect each other in the elevator - all of this happening without the past memories coming into play at all. They fell in love as Usagi and Mamoru.)

I'm looking forward to Crystal's version of Stars because I want to see senshi we'd never seen animated before. I want to say I hope they'd fill in the blanks Naoko left but I know they won't.

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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   30th April 2016, 10:53 am

@Jupiter Rose wrote:
Well what's interesting is to think: will Usagi change? Will she "grow up" and meet the mindset she supposedly has as NQS? Banishing and all? Or will she remain the same? She's very reluctant I think to adopt such roles that are harsh.
This gets into multiple timeline category XD Cause if you take the Neo Queen Serenity that would have happened as Usagi after just the Dark Kingdom Arc, I totally think that banishing people would be something she would have done. I think that she might have been a little colder, and would not have had as much experience with having a daughter.
but now?
Ever since ChibiUsa went through the time stream, things started changing in ways they hadn't that first time around as our Usagi was put to the test more, grew more, got to know herself and her ideals more. IMO the "first" Usagi had Dark Kingdom and probably faced off against Nehelenia to ascend to the throne, and that's it. Our Usagi had so many other experiences that showed her both sides of the story, was able to see that redemption can work in the latter arcs, and ultimately fought to find the loophole to the cosmos/chaos question and succeeded.  After throwing herself into the Cauldron to give Chaos what it wanted to end the war with Love and fulfillment instead of war and destruction, she changed. I highly doubt that the NQS that was prestented earlier on in the series is what our Usagi ultimately becomes, and if you look at mentions of NQS throughout the story, after the R arc, you'll see that she's more like our Usagi as time goes on, showing minute shifts as "new" things happen in the past and filter to the future.

IMO Usagi will never become the cold NQS that they will remember from the R arc, and, maybe, that cold vision of what she could have become helped fuel her endeavor to remain who she is and not change because of her ascention. 

@Jupiter Rose wrote:
Now we don't know much about Seiya so I can't compliment there but for the time being, yeah, she meshes well with Usagi and I think that makes people mad. Like how dare Usagi like someone else?? But again, I cannot emphasise this enough, she's human. It happens. 

I guess this is mostly why I'm more mixed on this arc. Honestly I need to rewatch it yet again (and probably read the manga).
My thing was that Usagi never showed signs of romantically liking Seiya. She showed signs of being flustered or embarrassed or completely out of her depth with how to deal with an individual who doesn't take repeated "NO, THAT MAKES ME UNCOMFORTABLE" for an answer, but nothing romantic at all. I think a lot of it was fans putting themselves in her place and thinking they'd love all that attention, love being pulled out of their shells and comfort zones by a beautiful pop-star singer with a sordid past, but Usagi-chan? That's never what she wanted. She found what she wanted, she had what she wanted, and she was immensely vulnerable for having been separated from what she wanted and was now dealing with someone who didn't respect her or her feelings.


@Neon Genesis wrote:
Sailor Mercury wrote:
[...]A lot of people say Mamoru is cold/distant/doesn't love Usagi or treat her like crap, but I never see that? Mamoru is an introvert. Beside Usagi, who is an uber lovey-dovey touchy-feely person, of course he would seem cold and distant and maybe even apathetic. As an introvert myself who has an introvert dad I see ourselves in Mamoru, and that doesn't mean we don't love people. Just because we don't show it doesn't mean we don't love them. I think a lot of people misunderstand Mamoru because he's not outgoing like Usagi or, yes, Seiya. But when things matter, Mamoru shows over and over again how supportive and loyal he is to Usagi, especially in the manga.

I'm sure Kyra can wax poetic about this more though xD Also PGSM Mamoru is super awkward. His proposal is the worst but he tries because he loves her and that's why I love this complete and utter awkward baby dork.
The issue a lot of fans had with Mamoru was that whole breakup subplot in the 90s anime.  The whole "I'm breaking up with you and going out of my way to make you feel bad to protect you!" was considered highly problematic.  Like why didn't Mamoru just talk to Usagi about his dream, especially since he ended up doing that by the end of the season

[...]

 On the other hand, this whole love/hate relationship thing is a common trope with a lot of popular shoujo anime couples like Sakura/Syaoran, Miaka/Tamahome, and even to some extent, Usagi/Mamoru argued and fought with each other alot throughout the first season and hated each other, then suddenly they were all fighting for each other and in love because of destiny.
Sailor Mercury wrote:
[yes to all she said the end]
AND WAX POETIC I SHALL about the "whole love/hate relationship thing" and how they didn't hate each other at all and how destiny can kiss its own butt because they were attracted to each other for each other from the very beginning.

wait i've already done that Check out this post on how i broke down their interactions in episodes 1-15 for how Mamoru was, the entire time, awkwardly flailing through flirting / showing attraction towards Usagi from the very beginning in his own way. And then, hello~ Oh look! and here's for episodes 16-27. Oh! and behold! 28-34 . I thought I did one for 35 to finish it all off, but I can't find it so whatever, there we go. 


Re: Break-Up Arc
IMO, throwing headcanon in because the show never actually explained King Endymion's reasoning the point of this whole scheme was to try to change Mamoru faster, to make him open up to the others more instead of relying on just himself, but it was too much, too quick, and Mamoru failed the test. He was supposed to bring it to everyone's attention immediately, and work through the problem together from the start, as a heads-up for bad stuff heading their way, but instead he took it on himself to solve the problem, and even more bad stuff happened as a result. 

It's a flaw in Mamoru's character that is much better explained/explored in the manga with ties to feeling worthless in comparison to Usagi. Now, that he took the whole thing as an exercise in self-masochism is just fun in and of himself in that he's purposefully hurting her, which tears him apart inside, but he feels in the end it will do her good as it'll force her to move on, which he really doesn't want which is also tearing him up inside so he's a ball of I really hate doing this but i have to do this and it sucks because i'm a terrible person and not worthy of her anyway which also sucks. 

It was unnecessary drama caused by someone who probably didn't remember where they were developmentally at that point in their own life and vastly overestimated how things would turn out.

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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   30th April 2016, 11:44 am

I've seen a lot of awesome points said.

I look at Sailor Moon Crystal and I see how much it is lacking but I also see all the good points too.

Every version has its good points and bad points and they will have points that were like teasers that have just enough to provide information but not going in detail enough in some areas.

Like what's been said about how they could have expanded on certain characters more, added more depth to the lore of this and that.

I'm in the line of thinking that I adore Usagi and multiple different pairings but I will always still love Mamoru and Usagi together... but this is something that needs to be expanded in the whole franchise whether manga or anime and etc.

Sailor Moon is classified as a romance but to me that's a small genre in the scheme of the entire series and while it may have started that way,  to me, the real main plot is not romance but friendship, women empowerment, love as a whole and not solely romantic, good verses evil and hope. 

Those seem to always play the biggest role in any version and in any saga of any version.

So the romantic story and potential takes big hits as a result of such an expansive storyline and a super fast paced plot.

I agree Sailor Stars failed in that it's too fast paced.

...but it excelled in expanded the possibilities of the lore for the series overall and tried to tie up loose ends, though that still could have been done better lol...

Hits
New information of life on other planets.
New information of the life and death cycle of Sailor Senshi.
New information on Sailor Senshi's purpose and creation.
New Information of Sailor Crystals/Star Seeds/Special Senshi like Crystals.
Tying up the lore about how good and evil seek each other out, yin and yang, connecting reincarnation and cycles and etc.
Providing that Usagi's love is never ending, never wavering for everyone and especially Mamoru.

Misses
Too fast paced.
Not enough characterization.
Not enough information about the new and old lore.
Not enough before, after and even during scenes of Mamoru and Usagi.

Personally, Classic started good for Mamoru and Usagi but got side tracked really quickly by focusing on Usagi and the Senshi the past Lore and Evil.

You know everyone always complains about the Senshi getting the short end of the stick with character depth but where are the complaints about poor Mamoru and his relationship with Usagi?

In StarS, I wish Mamoru and Usagi should have gotten way more screentime in the beginning before he boarded the plane. 

I wish we could have seen a mixture of Usagi's struggling in the manga and anime and that it wasn't quick and all over the place and random.

I wish we could have had Mamoru as like a sort of Evil Tuxedo Mask like Animate for longer than the reveal in the end of the manga. Like his identy could be hidden the whole time and then revealed in the end kissing Galaxia's feet.

I wish the final battle didn't end in the wedding and that the wedding was its own saga following StarS, and had sillier and lighter fights but focusing more on the Senshi and Usagi and Mamoru's young adult lives fighting those silly side srory and filler like enemies of ghosts, vampires, everyday regular problems and curses and fighting wrongs that don't necessarily even need some big boss battle and instead make the goals and dreams they've talked about become a reality before our very eyes.
Edit: fixed some errors, sorry!
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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   30th April 2016, 12:51 pm

Nice points, Luna Love! I agree!

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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   30th April 2016, 1:51 pm

Quote :
My thing was that Usagi never showed signs of romantically liking Seiya. She showed signs of being flustered or embarrassed or completely out of her depth with how to deal with an individual who doesn't take repeated "NO, THAT MAKES ME UNCOMFORTABLE" for an answer, but nothing romantic at allI think a lot of it was fans putting themselves in her place and thinking they'd love all that attention, love being pulled out of their shells and comfort zones by a beautiful pop-star singer with a sordid past, but Usagi-chan? That's never what she wanted. She found what she wanted, she had what she wanted, and she was immensely vulnerable for having been separated from what she wanted and was now dealing with someone who didn't respect her or her feelings.

Certainly I agree that Seiya/Usagi shippers have over exaggerated their relationship and have a tendency to overlook the problematic aspects of Seiya's persistence.   I think the show would have benefited if they didn't drag the romance tension out as long as they did.  Pacing being the biggest issue with Stars seems to be an overlapping theme here.   Having said that, I don't think it's as simple to say that Usagi had zero interest in Seiya because the writers did seem to be strongly implying it later on in the season.  Like after Usagi found out Seiya was Star Fighter, they had that whole arc where Usagi was very concerned and acting like she wanted to meet her to confess her feelings for her.  At one point Rei even confronts Usagi directly about it though she comes across a bit manipulative in basically telling Usagi that she has zero choice in accepting Mamoru over Seiya.   Like Rei spent half of the first season hitting on Mamoru and now she's telling Usagi she has no choice but to stay with him?   Then you have moments throughout the season where Usagi is clearly blushing around Seiya like in the date episode where Seiya is holding Usagi in her arms and she suddenly feels safe around her and comparing her to Mamoru.   But then you get to the final scene in episode 200 and Usagi acts like she was completely oblivious to Seiya's feelings and they play it off like it was all meant to be a gag.  It feels like there were two staff of writers in this show where one wanted to take Usagi and Seiya's relationship further and the other crew wanted to preserve the Usagi/Mamoru Miracle Romance and it felt like these two visions were in conflict with each other. 
Quote :

wait i've already done that Check out this post on how i broke down their interactions in episodes 1-15 for how Mamoru was, the entire time, awkwardly flailing through flirting / showing attraction towards Usagi from the very beginning in his own way. And then, hello~ Oh look! and here's for episodes 16-27. Oh! and behold! 28-34 . I thought I did one for 35 to finish it all off, but I can't find it so whatever, there we go. 

I won't deny there some hints at them developing feelings from each other throughout the first season but it still pales in comparison to how developed their relationship was handled in the manga, and the scenes where Usagi and Mamoru do seem to be getting closer to each other don't erase the many moments throughout the season where Usagi also told Mamoru no.  I feel like the anime writers were trying to parallel Usagi and Seiya with Usagi and Mamoru in the first season but the pacing issues hurt how it came across.  

Quote :
IMO, throwing headcanon in because the show never actually explained King Endymion's reasoning the point of this whole scheme was to try to change Mamoru faster, to make him open up to the others more instead of relying on just himself, but it was too much, too quick, and Mamoru failed the test. He was supposed to bring it to everyone's attention immediately, and work through the problem together from the start, as a heads-up for bad stuff heading their way, but instead he took it on himself to solve the problem, and even more bad stuff happened as a result.

It still seems rather redundant to me because Usagi and Mamoru had already proved their love to each other through the battles with Beryl and Ali and Ann and the mere fact that Endymion is married to NQS should be all the proof he needs that they have a strong love.  If Endymion was still having relationship doubts at that point, they need marriage counseling instead of some vague scary nightmare.   It just seems like something the anime writers came up with to pad the story out to keep the anime from going further than the manga.
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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   2nd May 2016, 10:12 am

I don't recall Usagi ever saying no to Seiya only that she was uncomfortable sometimes and that was really an anime only thing. 

She never said no because she wasn't aware Seiya had romantic feelings for her.

That club thing only made her uncomfortable because Haruka made her believe Seiya wanted to have sex with her and would take it like a bad boy against her will.

Liking someone doesn't mean they want to have sex. Seiya just wanted to dance and hang out with Usagi and show off the club and people he knew from his career thinking it might make Usagi like him more...

There were a lot of awkward scenes with innuendos here and there but none that implied he would force himself on her or that she was even aware of it being a real thing and not just friendly teasing she is used to from practically everyone.

When she broke down on the roof and when Seiya said what he did, her reaction was more of confusion as to say "huh, what?" shock and confusion in the middle of heartbreak and breaking down and the scene was over so quickly we got the action but no real reaction.

I see nothing wrong with someone having a crush and trying to confess it.

Sure Usagi is in a relationship but Mamoru is not there or answering her calls and how is anyone to know he was killed and not just ignoring her?

Perhaps Seiya thought he could do better with that line of thinking because in his mind he would never do that to Usagi because he cared for her?

Honestly how would he know any better for anyone to blame him?

Either way, Usagi's love never wavered when she had right to question it. Her love as I said is unending. Mamoru has questioned their love far more often truth be told. 

It happens to most people, Usagi is actually pretty abnormal in her loyalty, love and trust but even we've seen her get jealous.

The difference is in how she won't give up despite anything for the one she loves. She can't let go or move on and that's exactly the kind of person a slightly broken person like Mamoru needs, imho, and why they work so well.

Either way Seiya and Usagi do not end up together and Mamoru and Usagi continue to endure even temptation... if only because Usagi is a bit dense and niave and not just her unconditional love for her Mamo-chan.

I guess like all sailor moon sagas, a great plot device was more of an undetailed teaser, like the whole of the StarS saga.
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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   24th May 2016, 9:20 pm

It just feels very pointless to me. Like the whole Seiya/Usagi "romance" plot. I knew it was building up to nothing because she already had Mamoru.

However I do love the music in this arc. Most notably the opening theme and "Search For Your Love."

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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   25th May 2016, 2:09 pm

Sailor Uranus wrote:
I love the manga Stars arc, but, see, one of my favorite things about it is how ambiguous it is. It introduces these huge, wild concepts, expanding their world in leaps and bounds that Nehelenia only teased us with, and left it open to interpretation so people would world-build to their hearts content. Now, like everyone I definitely have my pet peeves about differences in interpretations (cause my explanation/thoughts/ideas/headcanons are  so everyone else should listen to  because mine makes  etc. etc.) but the sandbox is real and it's there and you can pull so much out of the little peek she gave you.

And that whole arc - everything Usagi had to go through - I love it so much - I feel like it's such a perfect ending to her story arc, and proves that the future they saw is not set in stone because from what we saw at the Cauldron, Usagi would never banish people to that moon, which would then violate the entire series unless you bring in parallel universes, and bam open door for parallel worlds with wherein things happened or things didn't happen and it's a writer's dream

That said, I hated the anime.

I hated the anime because I had read and loved the manga.

I hated the anime because the opening song was about flying through space after the person you loved, facing dangers with your Senshi at your side, able to face down the Universe itself to get that person back. The opener was epic and wonderful and made so many promises --

And the anime delivered nothing of that promise.

When I first saw it I was so excited, but as my sister and I sat through all the episodes we were not invested at all, because it quickly became "The Starlights Show, featuring Sailor Moon yayyyy" but, to add insult to this injury and injustice of not getting at all what was promised, the main characters - the three lights, had zero development. They were constantly "discovering" things time and time again as the series progressed and it was like they were MIB blasted at the end of every episode and retained nothing. They didn't even work with the spark of a compelling backstory and play with those emotions, instead trying to shove their SeiyaxUsagi pairing at us in, even as an early teen, the most disrespectful way to me, as a girl who respected Usagi and wished for others to respect her choices and decisions. 


Ug I could rage for days about the character they made for Seiya and every choice they expressed through them. 


And then, insult to injury, they didn't leave planet Earth once. I didn't get my Evil Senshi. I got senshi who died for the Starlights >/ who then repeatedly forgot that the senshi had died for them and with their dying breath asked they watch over Usagi. Repeatedly. Repeatedly. "Who should we fight for now?" jeez, idk, hmm. let's think. 


I'm salty about the stars anime, the end.




... but I'm super excited about Crystal Stars, but at the same time a little nervous about what loopholes they'll close or definitively answer. 

THANK YOU THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY ^^^^
Seeing the anime first, I thought it was just an alright season. But once I read the manga, I was blown away by how much I loved it. This made me dislike the Sailor Stars anime in comparison.

One thing that always bothered me was the anime-Starlights having male civilian bodies while in the manga, they only cross-dressed (not that I have anything against gender-benders, but they made this change without a good reason). This change totally went against Takeuchi's wishes since her NUMBER ONE rule was that sailor senshi could only be female. So why did the anime give them male bodies??? My first theory is that the writers were hesitant to make Usagi seem bisexual because god forbid Usagi isn't straight!! Notice how the anime writers never included Haruka and Usagi's kiss. Another theory for why they might have given them male bodies was to push the Seiya/Usagi ship. As we all know, the anime didn't always treat Mamoru kindly, so perhaps they jumped at the idea of shipping her with someone else. "Why don't we turn Seiya into a man! Then (he/she) will be a more accurate replacement for Mamoru!"

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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   25th May 2016, 3:10 pm

@Sailor Zelda wrote:
I think the reason why people may not like the manga arc is because it's very fasted paced and is all over very quickly. And I also heard someone say once that the Starlights and Kakyuu didn't really get enough development and characterization or something? 
So I kinda want to specify something about this post (let's pretend it's not a month old): I love Stars. It's my favorite manga arc, bar none. I was just stating things I've heard others complain about. K thanks. Bye.

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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   4th July 2016, 12:39 am

@Chibi Usako wrote:

One thing that always bothered me was the anime-Starlights having male civilian bodies while in the manga, they only cross-dressed (not that I have anything against gender-benders, but they made this change without a good reason). This change totally went against Takeuchi's wishes since her NUMBER ONE rule was that sailor senshi could only be female. So why did the anime give them male bodies??? My first theory is that the writers were hesitant to make Usagi seem bisexual because god forbid Usagi isn't straight!! Notice how the anime writers never included Haruka and Usagi's kiss. Another theory for why they might have given them male bodies was to push the Seiya/Usagi ship. As we all know, the anime didn't always treat Mamoru kindly, so perhaps they jumped at the idea of shipping her with someone else. "Why don't we turn Seiya into a man! Then (he/she) will be a more accurate replacement for Mamoru!"
I think it could also possibly be because it seems like gender swapping characters were more popular back in the 90s.  Like you had shows like Ranma 1/2 that were around the same time that were pretty popular so maybe they wanted Sailor Moon to cash in on the popular anime tropes of the 90s.
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PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   1st August 2016, 9:48 am

@Sailor Zelda wrote:
I think the reason why people may not like the manga arc is because it's very fasted paced and is all over very quickly.


{Deep breath} Certainly not wrong there in my opinion. Even by manga standards, it moved fast. It's one thing to kill of small-time villains in Curb-Stomp Battles, but it is a whole other thing to kill off the Senshi, Mamoru, and the cats (who we've seen develop in power and personality in four previous arcs) in such a way. And then the Senshi and Mamoru are brought back by Galaxia to hurt Sailor Moon and she is forced to kill her friends and watch Mamoru die again (and Chibiusa doesn't exist because of it) and that is just salt on the wound for me. These things have great shock value in the first read through but after, it is just depressing in the rereads.

Now, as for the anime, I won't deny that the lack of Mamoru X Usagi hurt me personally and Seiya just rubbed me the wrong way since he intruded on my OTP, but I don't think he's the worst character in SM. I REALLY think the ones in charge of the 90s anime hated Mamoru and Stars gave them an opportunity to push away from it.

On a petty note, the Eternal Sailor Moon costume looked very tacky in the anime.

While the Nehellenia arc was nice, it did retcon her history from a vain queen who stole her citizens mirrors to stay young forever, to a woman who is really unhappy and lonely and deserved a second chance as a child.

I don't mind the gender-swap, but I can see the issue others have of it.

I don't think S or Infinity will suffer the same backlash Stars did. And to be fair, endings are very difficult to accomplish.

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Star Seed

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Join date : 2016-08-31
Location : USA


PostSubject: Re: Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?   31st August 2016, 8:35 pm

I wouldn't say I hate Stars.  I basically love the mini-arc at least the episodes where the Senshi team up in pairs.  I mean Mercury-Uranus, Mars-Neptune, and Venus-Pluto interacting like that is something we never saw before.  Jupiters scene was great too.

The main arc had a lot of episodes which taken on their own I really liked story wise and humor wise.  Some favorites include Usagi learning to play baseball, the episode where everyone winds up at the Tsukino house (except the actual Tsukinos...whose absence is unexplained), and the introduction of Aluminum Siren where she gives out her business cards.

It's once you start looking at it as a whole that my problems with it start to emerge:

Sailor Moon gains her ultimate form from the manga aka Eternal Sailor Moon. In the manga she is actually pretty bad@ss in the form and a force to be reckoned with. Instead the anime turned her into a total pacifist who does nothing but stand and get the crap beat out of her while she talks and makes almost no attempt to even defend herself most of the time. HATE! I mean let’s recap… Nehellenia. For some reason that is never explained she de-transformed when she arrived wherever Nehellenia is. With her friends all incapacitated the audience is psyched for an Eternal Sailor Moon vs Nehellenia throwdown…and she does nothing but stare at Nehellenia while she wails on her. Then more unexplained stuff as Usagi somehow breaks the curse of Mamoru and frees her friends. I guess she used the Silver Crystal although it is never seen and there is not even a glow around her? Nehellenia is redeemed and more unexplained magic as she is suddenly her younger self again with a second chance? Would this not screw up the timeline, or is this not actually happening.  Actually the more I think about it I am just going to assume that what actually happened is that Sailor Moon sealed her away inside her own dream mirror.

For the rest of the season Sailor Moon's basic function was to show up, then either do nothing or get chased by attacks until someone else (80% of the time it was one of the Starlights. That's not an estimate I actually did the math.) stunned the phage for her to use her Therapy Kiss finisher to heal it.  The exception was the one time she threw a pizza, and the one time she solo'd a phage when ChibiChibi distracted it.  Part of the blame could fall on her new outfit.  Naoko took away her crown when she designed it and with it went her ability to ever swoop in with Moon Tiara Action which was her non-finishing attack that let her be occasionally useful in previous seasons.  The anime probably should have just let her keep the tiara or invent some kind of new non-finishing attack to let her not be useless until someone else stunned the Phage?   Maybe something with the otherwise useless wings?  (Speaking of which...another minor gripe.  She FLEW in the Nehellenia arc.  Yet this was never mentioned again and she did not fly again until the finale when she had the Serenity form full angel wings.)  Heck even using more physical attacks like her Sailor Moon Kick like she did at the start of the series would have been something?

As far as the recurring villains she (nor the other Senshi) never even get a single real win in a fight again Iron Mouse or Aluminum Siren (unless you count the time when Siren threw food on the plane then fled outnumbered 8 to 1 on the plane without taking a single attack.) before Galaxia kills them, or Lead Crow before Tin Nyanko killed her. She does at least get a win against Tin Nyanko by firing off Crystal Power Kiss (after Star Fighter has of course done all the work and injured her knocking her down and out) almost saving her once before Galaxia killed her. Ummm yay?

Then comes Galaxia the climax of the entire series…and again everyone has to be expecting an epic battle will happen here right? We have a single failed Silver Power Kiss after Kakyuu dies. The Inners die she does nothing. She doesn’t even try to defend herself against the Outers although she at least doesn’t stand still…progress shown since Nehellenia at least. Nothing after until she gets the crap beat out of her and watches uselessly as the Starlights fight and nearly get themselves killed a few times. (Again it's worth noting that she makes no attempt to save them, and they nearly die saving her). The only thing she does besides talk then is eventually the one failed attempt to just use the Silver Moon Crystal (not really even an attack name so dunno what she is going for here), and after ChibiChibi brings her back to life two blocked Galaxia sword swings one of which she accidentally cuts Galaxia off the deflected attack. Contrast that to their fight in the manga…and this is stupid.  In the manga she digs deep fights impossible odds, has to actually fight and kill her fellow senshi (well their golems), and has an epic clash with Galaxia.  It's almost funny in how it's almost the reverse situation of the Dark Kingdom arc where the manga had her be the whiny selfish girl who gives up on the world while the anime had her build her resolve and fight on, this time it was the manga who had her build resolve and fight while the anime made her give up and do nothing from the start.  I don’t even care that she redeemed Galaxia instead of Galaxia being full evil  (Although she is even saved and sorta redeemed in the manga too.  Isn't there even a line where she laments that she unable to even save her own planet from Chaos?  Which is fascinating that she may have cared for the place she supposedly deemed as trash after all).  I would have been fine with that naked hugging and all if you want. I just wanted Eternal Sailor Moon to actually do SOMETHING proactive on her own before that point.  Why was that too much to ask?

I can't help but wonder if Igarashi who had fully taken over control of the series at this point did not view Sailor Moon as an butt kicking warrior princess like her manga counterpart who should fight and sometimes even kill instead feeling she should solve everything strictly through the power of love.  *Gagging noises*.

Of course Sailor Moon wasn't the only one who was useless for much of the main arc.  Her fellow senshi were indeed ineffective or absent from battle for most of it.   Seriously there were 25 episodes between the end of the Nehellenia arc to the episode where the Inners are killed.  This is what they did with their powers in that time:

Jupiter - Blocked 2 attacks with Oak Evolution
Venus - Stunned 1 phage with Love and Beauty Shock, missed with Love and Beauty Shock 1 time.
Mercury - Stunned 1 phage with Aqua Rhapsody, has Aqua Rhapsody easily blocked 1 time.
Mars - Stunned 2 phage with Flame Sniper, threatened Star Fighter with Flame Sniper.
Neptune - Blocked 1 attack with Deep Submerge, had Deep Submerge redirected back at her 1 time.
Uranus - Stunned 1 phage with Space Sword Blaster.
Pluto - Blocked 1 attack with Dead Scream, missed with Dead Scream 1 time.

So that 5/25 episodes that the Senshi hit a phage with an attack.  
That's barely half the episodes where they even used any attack.
Also for the record no more than two Inner Senshi ever used an attack in any give episode.  (Unless you count the airplane episode.  In single freeze frames each of the Senshi is seen using their signature strongest attack blocking things like orange juice cartoons).
None of the Inners even attempt an attack against Galaxia either time that they encountered her.
Can you say useless?

And wait a minute I feel like I am forgetting someone...oh right Saturn.
Saturn was brought back in the mini-arc although you would not know it for most of the season as neither Hotaru or Saturn appeared once before the final Galaxia battle.  Poor Saturn never even got an transformation sequence much less actually used an attack.  Even her role in the Galaxia fight is awful.  She uses Silent Wall at the start (but apparently forgot about using it later in the fight). She threatens to use an attack willing to die doing it, Galaxia reveals that she played an role in her revival...and Saturn decides this means she should not attack her why exactly?  Just because Galaxia wants to steal your starseed does not mean you should stand still and let her do it?  *sigh*

(To be fair though, the other Senshi of this solar system were pretty equally useless in the manga.  As much as people say the Starlights were minor characters in the manga and it's true they received no character development at all, they were still at least responsible for killing two of the Sailor Animamates while not a single one was killed by any of the actual Senshi, and in fact the Senshi jobbed out and got easily killed by them.   Even their Galaxia golem forms were actually pretty pathetic too all being taken out in one easy shot.  I mean really freaking Saturn with her ability to destroy whole planets used two attacks *which in threory would have received a power boost from tapping into Galaxia's power* that apparently did nothing and was taken out soooo easy.)

Haruka and Michiru were back to their annoying characterizations from the first half of S, having completely forgotten that the lesson they learned about trusting their princess' ability to judge people, and as a result making things worse yet again.  I mean really the Sailor Starlights show up time after time, help defeat the phages, save the Sailor Senshi's lives, etc...yeah they sound totally evil and untrustworthy that Usagi should not even talk to them ever again or compare notes about the actual evil people that are attacking the planet.  *slaps forehead*

Not getting an return of Chibiusa or the Asteroid Senshi near the end was dissapointing, but I think I get that the anime had already kind of screwed itself over in that regard.  That opening mini-arc revealed that if something happened to Mamoru that Chibiusa would immediately fade from existence.  With Mamoru being dead for most of the season a state far worse and more permanent than just being under Nehelenia's spell...a Chibiusa return was unfortunately out of the question without being a massive retcon.
It's unfortunate and probably could have been avoided if Toei had any patience.  If I recall correctly Naoko fell behind the anime at this point and did not have a full plan for the Stars arc in place, rather than delay the premiere Toei pushed ahead with this filler arc not aware of her full plan.  So they probably knew that Chibiusa was being sent home by the start of the arc and thought she was gone for good not knowing she would play an important role at the very end.  (To be fair for all the deep research Naoko apparently did when writing Sailor Moon, none of it was apparently about theories about time or time travel or paradoxes or any such stuff because the way she had those things work in the manga was an absolute logistically impossible mess of hot garbage.  Mamoru was killed at the start of the manga too, so I certainly can't fault the Toei team from thinking that would mean Chibiusa would have ceased to exist in the future instead of the weird fading but not actually changing anything crap that Naoko came up with as happening that allowed her to still somehow exist and time travel back.)

The total dissapearance of pretty much the entire supporting cast also seemed rather strange and dumb.  Even if just cameo non-speaking background characters at some point it would have been nice to see any of Naru, Umino, Grandpa Hino, Yuuichiro, Motoki, Shingo, etc.  I always thought one of Sailor Moon's strengths was the world building it did with such characters so to just wipe the slate clear for the final season was rather disheartening.

Finally can we talk about what a convoluted mess the actual anime plot of the starseeds was?   I mean for starters Phages had to be the most nonsensical of any seasons monsters.  Remove a starseed for a few seconds it turns black and a person transforms into a monster that calls itself a Sailor for reasons that are never really explained?  About all I can think to fanwank is that the energy used to blast out the Starseeds is actually part of Chaos itself and that this energy infects the persons starseed and is what actually transforms them into a monster until purified with the Silver Crystal?  As silly as these monsters were though in design though...does Chaos have a sense of humor?  Because I would not have really expected that.    Also what the heck is a starseed?   I mean if we assume that the starseed is essentially the soul of the person like the manga, then how does that work with the Silver Crystal and Sapphire Crystal being starseeds that have existed for times well outside of their respective hosts bodies?  I mean Galaxia not only ejects hers across the universe but even freaking destroys hers and yet somehow is okay at the end?  Does not compute...  Plus of course there is the fact that Galaxia clearly knows that what she is after is found in Sailor Senshi, yet she does not tell her minions this and even gets angry at them when they can't seem to find them despite not knowing this vital information.  So much stupid...  I mean even rationalizing that Galaxia likes to screw with her minions, her anger at the situation just does not make much sense to me?
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Why The Backlash to Sailor Stars?

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