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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 4:51 pm

I seriously think your tactic in this game is to come up with the longest off the wall theories that people get exhausted from trying to rebuke so they just lay over and die or go with it. Anyway, here goes my evening.
Quote :

    I feel like this is being twisted? The original intent of their posts rang true - the phrasing of your question for people to say why they shouldn't be investigated can, for newbies, be read as a "Everybody secretly spill!", despite what you meant, and while this was advertised as an "Advanced" game, there was nothing stopping people who have played less than 3 games from hopping in and trying their luck. Having someone attempt to take the lead from the very beginning and act like a spokesperson and thus a person in charge, and then having that person make a decree that a question must be answered (and then having another vocal person back up that request and forcefully use it as a means for ferreting out mafiosi), anyone with basic mafia knowledge knows it would be stupid and scummy to not answer the question at all, but might not have the skill to deflect or use something other than a role claim to get the heat off of them, allowing them to fade into the background.

    What Pluto, Small Lady, and Mercury said, imo, was just that - that an inexperienced person might accidentally hint that their role is important instead of making up some at-this-point bs reason as to why they should or shouldn't be investigated, thus your question, and the repeated insistence of yourself and NQS for people to answer the question, could pressure newbie-townies into revealing more than they should, which totally is scummy as the assumption is that there are more townie-allied players than mafia-allied players, thus there is a greater chance that more townies are new than mafiosi, thus people who might fall into this mistake would be townie-allied-power-roles, which shows their hands and makes them easy mafia targets.

I guess if you are completely new to this game, like have never ever played it before and don't think it through you might think it would be a great idea to reveal yourself. I don't know why, as a mafia, I would make that bet and think it would pay off? What is more likely is that I'm trying to get people talking so we catch them in lies or over reacting with posts like this. With the possibility of third party role and special powers for all we know we could be starting with less (but stronger powered) townies than usual. This is just an absurd argument that only a mafia or Loki would make.

Quote :

    And here's my return question: If they were mafia, why in the world would they have pointed this out to be scummy when they could've just ridden that train and started making up their hit list, staying relatively quiet after answering themselves, leading townie-powers on with little breadcrumbs of fake important townie-roles to goad them into releasing more than they should, and letting you and NQS badger them into answering?

I was thinking they might take this route but we could use this to our advantage when we find start to find out who is who through role powers. Instead they came up with an absurd argument. Now, it is possible they aren't all mafia but it just seems weird to get so defensive about a simple question to get discussion going.

Quote :

    The fact is, in this game where there is no guarantee of levels, your question does not necessarily lead to "Figuring out who the mafia is"; it could completely be "setting the town up for failure" as it is much more likely a new townie would mess up than a new mafia member would, especially as mafia has that back room to coach their newbies in.

I mean of course, right now for you the possibility does exist that I am mafia. However, there is now a lot of hands played because of what I did. Once people's alignments start coming out that is evidence against them. Which is exactly the point of all this.

  
Quote :
My attempt here is not to ally myself with this "clique" I'm not sure how pointing out an answer-or-risk-being-lynched demand may be scummy makes people in a clique, but ? okay? but to point out how this obvious logic line relating to new members responding to Popeye's question has been twisted back on itself without consideration of the other side, which is a suspicious tactic as it only shows and bends things to one side of thinking rather than looking at it from multiple perspectives. With Popeye's already strong influence in this game, it could be used as a quick way to turn townies against three potential innocents. As one of those players - Small Lady - had already been mentioned by him as being "suspicious" for being quiet and this recent post just served to reinforce that when, as I pointed out in a previous post, her "usual" gamestyle (going off of just the two most recent games on this forum) is opposite of what he outlined, I find this to be really suspicious.

In order of suspicion of those three it goes something like Small Lady>Sailor Pluto>Sailor Mercury the only one I truly think is mafia is Small Lady. And yes, her activity is completely different than the lost two games. I'm not saying she doesn't post much when she is mafia but that it changed completely. I know her activity levels way more than any of you. I know when I posted the question. I know when she decided to reply.


   
Quote :
Popeye has yet to vote, but he's reading to really want Small Lady out of the game, and despite saying that there are "cliques" forming, he only mentioned the one he assigned her into, and not the others that he has "noticed". He's gunning for her; please pay attention before blindly following him as he's easily twisting things.

Call it a gut feeling

Anway, if anything at all I have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the lady doth protest too much, methinks.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 4:59 pm

@Neo Queen Serenity wrote:
I would also like to point out that due to the way the votes are, and 15 votes in play with 14 people, that Small Lady or Cosmos Hime is quite possibly a double voter.

But didn't the random vote thing happen before I even made my vote? With it changing around all teh time, I'm getting really confused.

Mod is it possible to add who has voted when you do your vote updates. Or a who has voted for who? Or does that mess up the flow with the way some of the roles work?

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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 5:00 pm

I have a question, Popeye: If you are so convinced that Small Lady is Mafia, THEN WHY HAVEN'T YOU VOTED FOR HER? Are you trying to get more "evidence"? Are you trying to get someone else to do it first? I want a reason, seriously. I'm inclined to think it's the latter really. If I was sure someone was Mafia I'd vote for them as soon as I'd said so. And yeah, I know I'm not as exeperinced as you are, not by a long shot, but still. What is you reasoning for not voting for her yet?

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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 5:11 pm

Small Lady wrote:
@Neo Queen Serenity wrote:
I would also like to point out that due to the way the votes are, and 15 votes in play with 14 people, that Small Lady or Cosmos Hime is quite possibly a double voter.

But didn't the random vote thing happen before I even made my vote? With it changing around all teh time, I'm getting really confused.

Mod is it possible to add who has voted when you do your vote updates. Or a who has voted for who? Or does that mess up the flow with the way some of the roles work?


I posted here on how the votes are working:

@Neo Queen Serenity wrote:
I thought I had it figured out but it's really complicated.

Points -

1. After I voted for Touka in the thread.  A vote count was done, showing that it was on Sailor Zelda, after asking for multiple vote counts it landed on Touka who I wished to vote for.

2. HOWEVER From the 4th or 5th vote count to the 6th on, there are actually 15 votes in play and 14 players.  At that point, I have voted, Small Lady posted, and Cosmos Hime posted. Since then there has been 15 votes in play.

3. My name appeared on the 6th Vote count as "Not Voted" but the number of votes in play is still 15.

4. 7th Vote count is still showing 15 votes in play, my name is back off the list, and it's going random again. BUT Touka still shows 4 votes.

So it's possible we're dealing with more than one ability, that belongs to  me, small lady or cosmos hime.


I also unvoted for touka and voted for myself. Nothing changed but a new random vote happened and the previous random vote moved to someone else.

The number of votes in play is still more than the number of players and I have no say in my vote.

The number of voters on Touka was 1 more than the number of players should have counted for. I unvoted to see if I had a passive double vote but it did nothing, meaning then when that extra vote on Touka appeared only me, you and Cosmos Hime had voted for them. That's 3 people and 4 votes.

I believe there are two different powers at please. I think the easiest way to check could be to have both of them vote for player with no votes on them and see if it's one or two.

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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 5:12 pm

Bait. Part of me wants to keep her around to use to catch the others but it's probably to late now. Unless someone is protecting me the mafia is going to kill me tonight as they usually do. I need to get my thoughts and suspicions out there before it happens. In other words I'm buying time and fishing for mistakes. As it looks like some of you are falling for Uranus' fail proof logic I have no choice.

Vote Small Lady

If things look desperate I might switch to Touka to end it quick.

Think on it though, if I was mafia where are my mafia friends to argue on my behalf?
I've put my neck out on the line far more than most mafia ever would and I'm hoping I'll take them down with me. If you guys take me out for them then they get two of us today.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 5:14 pm

Whoops

Vote Small Lady
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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 5:14 pm

Whoops again
Vote Small Lady
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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 5:20 pm

Oooh okay I understand now Queen. I had read your original post but I guess it didn't click. x_x

As far as the vote on Popeye goes, while I thought his question was odd, I understood the reasoning and logic behind it. I don't think thats really a reason to jump on voting for him and it makes me feel that some those voting for him are part of the mafia. In the last game, I made the mistake of assuming due to Sailor Uranus's infamity of being crafty and witty, I thought she was orchestrating a giant plot with the mafia the other time and that mistake ended up with us losing. Doing the same here with Sailor Popeye could easily lead to the same thing.

I'm still keeping my vote to Touka at this point. Between Sailor Popeye and Sailor Uranus they could both be twisting things around and causing general confusion to try to get people to eventually vote one way or another.

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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 5:22 pm

Small Lady wrote:
@Neo Queen Serenity wrote:
I would also like to point out that due to the way the votes are, and 15 votes in play with 14 people, that Small Lady or Cosmos Hime is quite possibly a double voter.

But didn't the random vote thing happen before I even made my vote? With it changing around all teh time, I'm getting really confused.

Mod is it possible to add who has voted when you do your vote updates. Or a who has voted for who? Or does that mess up the flow with the way some of the roles work?

I've reviewed the various roles and it shouldn't. I created it on that way on purpose to have you all think on it, but for all future vote counts I'll include it.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 5:24 pm

Yes, for the love of sanity please do.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 5:24 pm

Yes, for the love of sanity please do.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 5:25 pm

Uh the forum is lagging or something. Please excuse my spammy demeanor.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 5:31 pm

It's interesting to me that Sailor Popeye is thinking Small Lady is highly likely a mafia member, but yet Small Lady is defending him sort of xD Is this some sort of mafia tactic? Maybe they're both mafia, I mean you never know. The roles are random, but technically the host can hand them out however they want. So who knows really? It might be unlikely, but there is a chance! It's just odd when one person is gung ho about going after a player but that player defends the person going after them.

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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 5:38 pm

She is trying to throw people off. It's a pretty smart tactic or she loves me too much to see me die. Either way it only confuses you more. Even if we were both mafia using your strategy it's kind of early to pull something like this. There is really no benefit for the mafia sacrificing one of it's own on day one to get you to trust me. Unless I'm the god father (dun dun dun). Even then you would think they would wait to thin the herd out.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 5:41 pm

It's a bit weird that he's not able to give much, but we have no idea if he had a day action to see players, or if he's just dead set on her for a reason we don't know.

I would still like to see Cosmos Hime and Small Lady do some different voting to see who is/if there is a double voter.

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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 5:44 pm

Current Vote Count: 

Neo Queen Serenity (0)
Cosmos-Hime (0)
sportsnutd (0)
Sailor Mercury (0)  
Sailor Zelda (0)
Diana (0)
Sailor Pluto (1) Neo Queen Serenity
Small Lady (1) Sailor Popeye
Sailor Popeye (4) Diana, Sailor Zelda, Sailor Uranus, Sailor Swifty
Sailor Uranus (0)
Touka (3) Cosmos-Hime, Small Lady
Jupiter Rose (0)  
Sailor Swifty (0)
Addelyn (0)

Not Voting (6): Sailor Mercury, Sportsnutd, Sailor Pluto, Jupiter Rose, Addelyn, Touka

Votes required to lynch: 8


Current Deadline: Monday 13 June, 2016 @ Noon (1200pm EST)
Time to deadline: 15 hours  

You make request a vote count at any time.

Less than 16 hours until Day 1 is over

Please bold/color your posts if you're addressing the moderator. Just so I don't miss them. Just helps me notice your question.

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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 5:48 pm

Well I guess I could to test the waters? Please keep in mind this is just to try it out so I'm just picking someone at random. I'll change it back to Touka after we see the results of this.

Unvote Touka

Vote Addelyn

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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 6:44 pm

Current Vote Count: 

Neo Queen Serenity (0)
Cosmos-Hime (0)
sportsnutd (0)
Sailor Mercury (0)  
Sailor Zelda (0)
Diana (0)
Sailor Pluto (0)
Small Lady (1) Sailor Popeye
Sailor Popeye (4) Diana, Sailor Zelda, Sailor Uranus, Sailor Swifty
Sailor Uranus (0)
Touka (2) Cosmos-Hime
Jupiter Rose (0)  
Sailor Swifty (0)
Addelyn (1) Small Lady

Not Voting (7): Neo Queen Serenity, Sailor Mercury, Sportsnutd, Sailor Pluto, Jupiter Rose, Addelyn, Touka

Votes required to lynch: 8


Current Deadline: Monday 13 June, 2016 @ Noon (1200pm EST)
Time to deadline: 14 hours  

You make request a vote count at any time.

Less than 15 hours until Day 1 is over

Please bold/color your posts if you're addressing the moderator. Just so I don't miss them. Just helps me notice your question.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 6:47 pm

Small Lady is not a double voter but Cosmos Hime is (from the evidence posted). Not sure what to make of that but I'm more inclined to be eye balling her now.

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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 6:51 pm

Yeah, not necessarily a sign of alignment but something to consider. I can't think of any Zelda characters off the top of my head that would reflect such a power.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 8:03 pm

Current Deadline: Monday 13 June, 2016 @ Noon (1200pm EST)
Time to deadline: 13 hours  

You make request a vote count at any time.

Less than 13 hours until Day 1 is over

If a majority isn't reached (either a person or no lynch) a random player will be lynched
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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 8:14 pm

Welp, I just waded through like 4 pages of posts. Okay. So, regarding the question. I would like to ask how one can answer it without coming off suspicious. I have already stated my reasoning for not answering it.

Quote :
As such I won't be saying whether I should or should not be investigated - you can't really take my word for it anyway

Yes, I could have just easily said, "I'm a townie, so don't waste time investigating me" but what would the point in that be? Would everyone believe me? To me, personally, that sounds more suspicious, because what kind of person expects (especially Advanced) players to believe that? More often than not people who say they're innocent or are trying too hard to prove they're townie aren't, so I don't like making claims I can't back up like that. If this makes me suspicious, then I guess there's no winning is there.

Now as to who to vote for, as I stated in my original post, Popeye is suspicious for raising that question (and Kyra's case against him is hard to argue), so I'm definitely leaning toward him. But I also find it interesting that he's gunning for Small Lady and can only back it up with "a hunch". This kind of makes me think he might be a role with investigative powers? And as such maybe he found something in regards to Small Lady?

It's something to consider because while it comes off really suspicious that he's sort of targeting her, he's unable to back it up with concrete evidence. In my experience, sometimes cops do this while attempting to get at a mafia without revealing their own role, and then ends up coming off suspicious rather than helpful towards the townies. As such I'm kind of hesitating to vote for him. I know investigative roles are usually done in the night phase, but this game is so different, we shouldn't rule that out completely.

As for Touka, yeah she's maybe a little(?) suspicious? But there's not much to build a case against her either considering how little she's posted (except for that weird role fishing thing).

However, if we don't reach majority, someone will be lynched randomly, which I think is the least appealing option we have.

So I'm kind of torn. I'm going to see if what I posted changes anyone's votes at all, and then check back before the deadline to make my official vote because at this point I have reasons to not vote for either (or make a case against a new person.)

I don't like voting on the first day in general, but I also know Voting No Lynch won't help anyone with the majority or random lynch rule in place, so like I said I will make my final vote closer to the deadline.

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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 8:32 pm

You can reach a No Lynch Majority, if the majority vote for no lynch, no one dies (or is mod killed)

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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 9:04 pm

Well you guys found the double voting thing out quick, though I can tell you that I'm not involved with the voting randomness keeping NQS from placing a vote. After giving it some thought, I'm pretty sure that might be a mafia power, considering it keeps someone from making a lynch vote and there's more of a chance of the random lynch targeting a townie, keeping at least one vote off the mafia's back.

It took me a while to catch up, but even though sailor popeye is higher on my suspicion list now, I'm still keeping my vote(s) on touka. She's normally quite active during these games, and the lack of activity this late into the first day, even with the heat on her back-is highly suspicious.

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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 9:20 pm

The thing that bothers me about Touka is that to throw us off she could at least come and post, which makes me think truly inactive but then again I have nothing against killing the inactive.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 9:22 pm

@Cosmos-Hime wrote:
Well you guys found the double voting thing out quick, though I can tell you that I'm not involved with the voting randomness keeping NQS from placing a vote. After giving it some thought, I'm pretty sure that might be a mafia power, considering it keeps someone from making a lynch vote and there's more of a chance of the random lynch targeting a townie, keeping at least one vote off the mafia's back.

It took me a while to catch up, but even though sailor popeye is higher on my suspicion list now, I'm still keeping my vote(s) on touka. She's normally quite active during these games, and the lack of activity this late into the first day, even with the heat on her back-is highly suspicious.


Why shouldn't we be looking at you with your double vote? Honestly I'm a little inclined to feel like it's not as suspicious since you didn't exactly hide it very well. But you're votes are worth double right now, a pretty serious power. You make up 25% of a needed lynch at the moment.

I would also say that it's interesting that my vote was taken from me some time yesterday and it's been causing confusion ever since, people are focusing (well mainly me) on it. It would be a really interesting tactic for mafia to work together on that, as it would cover or could be blamed on the "random" vote that is being moved around. While a random voter would be in favor of the mafia though it's interesting to see you try to focus attention and NOW give your thoughts on it when it's been a topic, it's like now that you've been found out your like WELL THAT ability is WAY more dangerous.

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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 9:31 pm

unvote Small Lady
vote touka

I might not have time to post again before the day ends tomorrow. Arguments are just going in circles now anyway, something needs to happen.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 9:47 pm

*sobs because six pages to read T_T*

I am doing my very best to understand everything that has happened thus far, so please, if I am incorrect about anything, help me xD This post is going to be extremely long and will be placed behind a spoiler. I do apologize if anything I have written below has already been said. My brain hurts and I actually feel like crying because of how confusing this is.

Everyone else probably did this already, but I didn't even realize I would have to do it until I reread the whole thread, so just for future reference, I have made a notes page of all of the TLoZ references made thus far and how they can relate to the game, as well as the most-likely characters being used in the game and the roles that would fit with their character personality/role in the game. If anyone is interested in seeing these notes, please say so and I will post them.

My Thoughts (WARNING THEY ARE LITERALLY ALL OVER THE PLACE SORRY):
 

I'm going to wait until tomorrow to cast my vote. I need to read responses to what I've said and whatever anyone else wants to say. Again, I deeply apologize for any confusion in my scatter-brained thoughts. My head hurts from this game ^^'

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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 10:21 pm

Current Vote Count: 

Neo Queen Serenity (0)
Cosmos-Hime (0)
sportsnutd (0)
Sailor Mercury (0)  
Sailor Zelda (0)
Diana (0)
Sailor Pluto (0)
Small Lady (0)
Sailor Popeye (4) Diana, Sailor Zelda, Sailor Uranus, Sailor Swifty
Sailor Uranus (0)
Touka (3) Cosmos-Hime, Sailor Popeye
Jupiter Rose (0)  
Sailor Swifty (0)
Addelyn (2) Small Lady, Neo Queen Serenity

Not Voting (6): Sailor Mercury, Sportsnutd, Sailor Pluto, Jupiter Rose, Addelyn, Touka

Votes required to lynch: 8


Current Deadline: Monday 13 June, 2016 @ Noon (1200pm EST)
Time to deadline: 10 hours 38 minutes  

You make request a vote count at any time.

Less than 11 hours until Day 1 is over

Please bold/color your posts if you're addressing the moderator. Just so I don't miss them. Just helps me notice your question.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocarina of Time: Mafia (Game Over)   12th June 2016, 10:39 pm

Very good read through Pluto however I'm not at all as dismissive of cop roles, especially since technically none of the roles given out are one's we've seen before and a day action for a cop is definitely not unheard of. Hence, why I'm actually a little weary of popeye's strong adamant dislike of small lady. He doesn't strike me as the type of mafia player to 100% recklessly target someone day one with such little to go off of, I'm suspecting there is more info that we aren't privy to, or he's mafia (obviously would know if someone is good) but he would put himself at risk to do so.


The three way argument between Popeye, Small Lady, and Uranus is very interesting indeed.
But could also be a distraction, they are all players that people tend to let lead, or can bull their way through with their ideas (both for the better and the bad)


I'm still not sure that cops ARE useless, as there are some scary variations of cops out there, such as cops that will trust everyone (see townie) and cops that hate everyone (see all mafia) but I think between the objects in the game and the roles that we've never actually seen before it's not a losing situation. It got people talking at least and if someone DOES have a role they have posts to read.


That being said, I'd like to see your character thoughts. And maybe add my own.

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