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east02west
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PostSubject: [Debate] Reincarnation   Sun 12 Jun - 16:33

Are all star seeds reincarnated, or just those of Sailor senshi?

Please include manga sources.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Reincarnation   Tue 14 Jun - 15:46

This thread seems less of a debate and more a discussion based on your second post. If you want this to be an actual debate about whether or not all star seeds can be reincarnated please be clear with that and start a new discussion thread with your second post. I can split that from this thread if you would like. Please let me know.

@east02west wrote:
Are all star seeds reincarnated, or just those of Sailor senshi?

Please include manga sources.

I can't source manga at the moment cause I'm at work but IIRC, from what we read at the end of the manga they made it sound like special star seeds like Sailor Crystals could be reborn. As the same person. Note the end of the Stars manga. It is a bit more ambiguous when it comes to Star Seeds and I think reincarnation could work a bit differently than simply having Sailor Crystals be reborn with the same person.

If you go by the 90s anime, it seems that all the Star Seeds were able to be brought back to their original owners so it seems that Star Seeds, regardless if they are special ones (aka Sailor Crystals), could be reincarnated.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Reincarnation   Tue 14 Jun - 20:17

Let's see if this helps at all. I have digital copies of the complete manga series (so everything here only has to do with the manga and no other version), and I went through the last and first chapters of Stars to find this. Beware, everything in this post is very SPOILER-HEAVY for people who have not yet read Stars.

In the very last chapter of Sailor Moon Stars, Sailor Moon sacrifices herself into the Cauldron in an attempt to trap and overwhelm Chaos there. All of her comrades have already died and had their Sailor Crystals thrown into the Cauldron; Mamoru is shoved into the Cauldron, and Sailor Chibi Moon fades completely out of existence. Even Sailor Galaxia no longer exists. Only Sailor Chibi-Chibi (who transforms into Sailor Cosmos) and the Sailor Quartet remain throughout these scenes. Sailor Cosmos explains to the Quartet Sailor Moon's intentions with her final sacrifice, her (Cosmos's) own history of running away from her home when her battle became too overwhelming to her, and she explains some of the nature of the Galaxy Cauldron and the stars/ Star Seeds. (All quotes following come from the Miss Dream scanlations.)

Spoiler:
 

The way Sailor Cosmos explains it, it would seem that the power of rebirth comes from the Lambda power through the combined power of all Sailor Crystals together. Additionally I believe it is important to note that the terms for "star" (sometimes different words/ pronunciations, but the same kanji) used in Japanese is often used more loosely than in English; I've seen it used to refer to planets as well (as evidenced by the Japanese names of planets, such as Mizusei-- "water star"-- for the name of planet Mercury). I believe I've read somewhere that it can be used to refer to other objects in space, such as meteors, asteroids, etc.-- hence, the Asteroid Senshi/ Sailor Quartet.

It is well-established in the Sailor Moon universe that all Sailor Soldiers are the embodiment of the power of their corresponding planets/ moons/ cosmic bodies. This is why canonically there are no Sailor Soldiers of gemstones, flowers, rainbows, etc. as is popular in fan fiction. Judging by context from reading throughout the manga series (this is my interpretation of it), it seems that for every cosmological body in space, there is a Star Seed which is created with it, and this Star Seed is/ becomes/ evolves into/ combines with a Sailor Crystal, and its wielder is that body's protector, from whence she draws its power. Thus, the Galaxy Cauldron first creates a Star Seed, ejects it into outer space where it transforms into a star/ planet/ asteroid/ comet/ moon/ whatever (over what length of time, I couldn't guess), and someone is born/ created on that planet who holds that particular Star Seed, which becomes a Sailor Crystal for that person to draw her power from. From here, I'm guessing that when a Star Seed is destroyed (its owner/ weilder is killed), the Star Seed is automatically drawn back into the Cauldron for recycling, sent back out again to restart/ continue its existence in order to protect that planet and continue the cycle of life. (I suppose the alternative would be for that entire planet to completely cease to exist in the prolonged absence of its Star Seed, but I'm not sure.)

Looking further back in Stars, I found this quote from Sailor Iron Mouse upon her first appearance:

Iron Mouse: "The Last of the Star Seeds, the holders of the Sailor Crystals... I can't believe it, the other ten of them are here, too!"

"The last of the Star Seeds on Earth! The Sailor Crystals!"

This implies that ONLY a Sailor Senshi can ever hold a Star Seed; no other beings can possess one. This furthers the idea that only those with a Star Seed/ Sailor Crystal have the capacity to be reborn, because they are the designated protectors of their respective star/ planet/ body.

___________________________



I am the Titan Soldier of Stars and Destiny! Protector of the innocent! Defender against evil! And invincible! SAILOR CRONUS! Enemies beware-- for your fate is sealed!


Last edited by TS Sailor Cronus on Tue 14 Jun - 21:03; edited 1 time in total
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east02west
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Reincarnation   Tue 14 Jun - 20:46

Small Lady wrote:
This thread seems less of a debate and more a discussion based on your second post. If you want this to be an actual debate about whether or not all star seeds can be reincarnated please be clear with that and start a new discussion thread with your second post. I can split that from this thread if you would like. Please let me know.

@east02west wrote:
Are all star seeds reincarnated, or just those of Sailor senshi?

Please include manga sources.

I can't source manga at the moment cause I'm at work but IIRC, from what we read at the end of the manga they made it sound like special star seeds like Sailor Crystals could be reborn. As the same person. Note the end of the Stars manga. It is a bit more ambiguous when it comes to Star Seeds and I think reincarnation could work a bit differently than simply having Sailor Crystals be reborn with the same person.

If you go by the 90s anime, it seems that all the Star Seeds were able to be brought back to their original owners so it seems that Star Seeds, regardless if they are special ones (aka Sailor Crystals), could be reincarnated.

I'd appreciate that.

I guess to my mind I I wondered how reincarnation affected their temporal relations once they awoke as senshi, but I see that it might be better off as a [Headcanon] sort of discussion.

I wish we had more to go on within the manga or anime regarding the struggles of each senshi to make sense of it all.


@TS Sailor Cronus:

That's how I came to understand it as well.

That makes me think that Usagi's relationship to her 20th Century family ceased to be in much the same way that Makoto and Mamoru's parents were no longer living. 

I wonder if that facilitated their role as protectors of the Earth and their past selves to take over them completely.


Last edited by east02west on Tue 14 Jun - 20:49; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Additional response.)
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Reincarnation   Tue 14 Jun - 21:10

I wouldn't assume Usagi's family passed away or anything. I see no indication of it in the manga, but also Sailor Moon has been able to resurrect people through the power of the Silver Crystal, so if they suddenly came to harm, Sailor Moon would be quick to defend them. Additionally, while Neo Queen Serenity rules Crystal Tokyo, EVERYBODY'S natural lifespan is increased tenfold, so it also seems unlikely that they would pass away to natural causes (especially given that all of them are young for death by natural causes). More likely I'm thinking, she's married, she's an adult, she no longer lives with them. She's moved on. That's all.

___________________________



I am the Titan Soldier of Stars and Destiny! Protector of the innocent! Defender against evil! And invincible! SAILOR CRONUS! Enemies beware-- for your fate is sealed!
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east02west
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Reincarnation   Wed 15 Jun - 8:36

@TS Sailor Cronus:

But that's what complicates matters, what exactly is the relationship between the Silver Crystal and the Galaxy Cauldron which is responsible for such things?

Lamba Power is the collective of all Star Crystals in the Galaxy Cauldron and is a power distinct from Silver Crystal Power. However, the Silver Crystal seems to have the ability to surpass that normal process. 

We don't hear of the senshi of our Solar System returning to the Galaxy Cauldron following the fall of Silver Millennium, but rather by the agency of both Queen Serenity and Saturn (implicitly) were guided to the 20th century AD in Tokyo, with no need to return to their respective planets and implant anew.

Honestly, I wish that Pluto and Saturn hadn't died, but rather remained within their respective posts. Saturn regrouping the Milky Way Galaxy until the day that Usagi and Co. would be ready to awaken, and Pluto to guide them to a time when it would be safest for them to be reborn. I actually think that would have been a fitting manner to show Queen Serenity sending them into the future along with Luna and Artemis, but alas not my call to make. It's just a matter of who was ultimately in charge of these key places in the time it took for them to reincarnate. 

Maybe the reason that Usagi could come to power in the 30th century pertains to reawakening the people of the Earth to their memories of Prince Endymion and Princess Serenity from the time of Silver Millennium? Or is it possible the the people of Earth aren't the original inhabitants? o.O

After all, didn't Silver Millennium effectively end ALL life in our galaxy? Who was there to rebuild? Or was it that only the immortals of the universe and their kingdoms died off? 

Sorry if this is off-topic, but this is something that's bugged me about their reincarnations and the rise of Crystal Tokyo.
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east02west
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Reincarnation   Sun 19 Jun - 12:20

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