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PostSubject: Theory: Mamoru's parents and the people of the Earth.   2nd July 2011, 2:06 pm

ok so, in the anime, they killed off mamoru's parents by saying they died in a car crash. I don't remember if they did the same thing in the manga, but even when he's endymion, we see absolutely nothing about his parents. NOTHING. so i'm thinking, where exactly are the king and queen of earth during this war? it said in the manga or something that beryl became the ruler of the earth, but does that mean she killed them? how is beryl related to endymion? they were both on the earth, but beryl was fawning all over the prince. and why did beryl kill the princess, and not the queen? I get the whole jealousy thing, and that's why she killed serenity, but why not the queen? and during this whole war, where was the king of the moon, and the royal couple of the earth? how exactly did beryl release the seal on metalia? it was all kinda blurred together really fast and then BAM! the earth people invade the moon and destroy it. also, in the anime they showed A LOT of senshi being sent from the moon's ruins to earth to be reborn. we see the prince, the princess, the inners, and the outters, and A LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT more. it makes me think of HOW MANY senshi weren't incooperated into the story line, then again, you wouldn't wanna get TOO side tracked with all of the senshi running around. but i wanted to see some other senshi on earth, you know, coming from maybe the US, italy, france, etc.

EDIT: ok, so i read that beryl was an earth sage who fell in love with the prince. she met and worshipped metalia, and when she found out about serenity she became jealous therefore, becoming misguided by it. ONE THING DOWN. lol
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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Mamoru's parents and the people of the Earth.   2nd July 2011, 8:02 pm

Ok, so I can finally respond to this! Smile

As to the nature of Endymion's parents, I suspect that they were still alive during the Moon Kingdom. He is often referred to as "the Crown Prince," as Serenity calls him, and I believe that if they were dead that he would have been referred to as King. As to their whereabouts, I suspect that they became unseen due to the typical manga/anime theme of the Unseen Parents. Queen Serenity says that the Evil One came and thwarted the minds of the people of the Earth.


I suspect that the King and Queen were either killed by the revolt or were apart of it due to the brainwashing. I do not know if they possess any powers like Endymion had, so I cannot really decide on which may be the case.

Beryl has always been rather interesting to me. She is seen lurking around Endymion and Serenity and her garments suggests that she may be apart of some royal family. I am not very familiar with royal bloodlines and such, but usually in the courts there are members who are not apart of the royal family per se, but have a high enough status to interact with them.


At first I thought that her watching them had nothing to do with her having an high status at all. Because Serenity and Endymion's love was forbidden, it is quite likely that they met in obscure places. But in the image above, the architecture appears to be in a court of some kind, so maybe it is still located on the royal grounds. Which is why I think Beryl herself may have status. However, there is yet another image that makes me possibly think otherwise. When Beryl is talking about how she first obtained the power by Queen Metalia, she almost looks like a Sorcerous. But that is just me.


Anyway, yes, she obtained the power from Metallia ("It came from an enormous gas pocket from the sun [...] and fell to Earth [...] It was the birth of the goddess of evil"). Her mission was to destroy the Moon Kingdom, but I think the main reason as to why her mind was thwarted so was bred from the jealousy in her heart toward Serenity. I think this is why she attacked the Princess instead of the Queen first. The people of the earth took care of the Moon Kingdom's inhabitants and I think things got of control before she could attack the Queen.


As to the anime screencap that you are talking about, I have no idea. Razz I think that was a flaw by the animators to fill up space.

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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Mamoru's parents and the people of the Earth.   2nd July 2011, 8:32 pm

Well, Jupiter summed up everything there is to say about Metallia and Beryl.

Metallia originated from the Sun in the Manga. Whether or not she had been trapped there is unknown, but she came from the sun, landed on Earth, and her first target was Beryl, who then led the rest of Earth against the Moon Kingdom. She inadvertently killed Endymion, which caused Serenity to take her own life in despair.

As for the ten's of Senshi we see fall to Earth in the Anime, I like to think that this is the opening for so many of our Otaku Senshi... but it's also easily explained away by playing Sailor Moon: Another Story in which you find that many of guards women/Moon Kingdom citizens wore Fuku-like clothing... so most of them could just have been ordinary people/guards without guardian planet powers.
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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Mamoru's parents and the people of the Earth.   2nd July 2011, 8:54 pm

oooooh. thanks for the input! as for beryl's status, it said in the sailormoonwiki that she was a sage, so yeah. and back in the day, sages were like, the right hand man of the king, so it'd make sense that she would be able to get so close to the prince.

i think it is a filler. :/ which is kind of disappointing.

as for how serenity died, i think it made more sense in the anime, rather than in the manga. i mean, they didn't specify how long serenity and endymion loved each other, but her reaction seemed kinda like..RUSHED. like, OH MAN, MY LOVER DIED. BYE GUYS. it was very sudden. sure, if you were to see your boyfriend die, you'd feel great despair but that's over doing it a little. or well, i don't know the psychology of japanese women, much less couples, so perhaps that wasn't rash to the japanese. it obviously was too much for america to handle, hence why they changed it in the anime. lol

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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Mamoru's parents and the people of the Earth.   2nd July 2011, 9:28 pm

Ai-No-Hana wrote:
as for how serenity died, i think it made more sense in the anime, rather than in the manga. i mean, they didn't specify how long serenity and endymion loved each other, but her reaction seemed kinda like..RUSHED. like, OH MAN, MY LOVER DIED. BYE GUYS. it was very sudden. sure, if you were to see your boyfriend die, you'd feel great despair but that's over doing it a little. or well, i don't know the psychology of japanese women, much less couples, so perhaps that wasn't rash to the japanese. it obviously was too much for america to handle, hence why they changed it in the anime. lol

But in the original japanese version of the anime, Princess Serenity still did not kill herself. That was how it was originally made. I don't think they were thinking of America when they did that scene. Its possible even in Japan, for a TV show aimed at kids, it might have been seen as too dark for her to kill herself. Or anti-heroic? I am not sure. The way Serenity kills herself, with a sword, reminds me a lot of the samurai act of killing oneself. I think Naoko may have taken from that.

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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Mamoru's parents and the people of the Earth.   2nd July 2011, 10:06 pm

hmm, touche. honorable death by killing yourself with a sword is famous in japan because of the samurai. but yeah, that was pretty much anti-heroic of the princess. i mean, why would you kill yourself when that's what the enemy wants? in the anime, and later on when she's reborn, she doesn't kill herself, she fights even though she see's her lover and friends murdered before her eyes countless times.

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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Mamoru's parents and the people of the Earth.   2nd July 2011, 10:10 pm

It's probably a way of showing that the reborn version of the Princess is a much stronger one. I always see Princess Serenity of the past as a naive, slightly weak young girl in love.

And on the topic of Endymion's parents, I think they were there, but Naoko felt it was unnecessary to include them in the story because that wasn't the main focus. Kind of how in the Lord of the Rings Return of the King movie they (unjustly if you ask me) left out the part where the Hobbits return to the shire and fight off the evil that had taken over there. Initially Peter Jackson (director) said since it really had little to do with the story of the ring, they didn't include it (IMO I call BS because they added in all the Arwen/Aragorn BS BUT WHATEVER). But yeah, similar to that.

i think you get what i'm trying to say right? XD

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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Mamoru's parents and the people of the Earth.   2nd July 2011, 10:30 pm

I do not know how long Serenity and Endymion were together (it's so hard for me to ever understand length of time with Naoko's manga). Throughout the manga they refer to several occasions in which Serenity visited Earth. In addition, Beryl says that the Meteor shower occurred "that fateful year" and in one of the scenes with Endymion and Serenity, the princess comments on the arrival of the darkness. The panel below says "A little while ago" and another translation says "some time ago." I know this doesn't really help, but because there are so many different scenes of them, I just get the sense that it all happened in at least a year. It could be possibly more, but I can not tell from Serenity's aging.




Regardless, I do not think that Serenity's reaction was over dramatic. I mean, it is quite dramatic to commit suicide but I think it is understandable in her case for a number of reasons.


First of all, Serenity's personality. Throughout the manga she comes off as rather innocent. She lived in great peace and there are a few scenes with her and the Senshi, in which she appears to have the same childlike personality as Usagi. I do believe that Endymion was her only love. When he was killed it was not simply his death that was traumatic for her -- but I believe seeing her beloved Kingdom and every one else killed had a great impact on her. During the Moon Kingdom, she is not a senshi -- she is not a warrior in any sense. It does not seem as if she had any Princess duties either and for the most part, lived a very innocent peaceful life.


But more so, I think her reaction shows the depth and magnitude of her love for him. Other characters in the manga also speak of the powerful bond of love that Serenity and Mamoru shared. And through flashbacks, one can see how deeply connected they were. They realized how forbidden their love was but I believe their connection towards one another was too deeply rooted to be torn apart. Serenity may be an innocent, but I do not think Endymion was -- the Earth had hardships as it always did, and I am sure as being the Crown Prince he understood the weight of his responsibilities and actions.

There are a lot of manga panels of them together but I will not post them all. Smile (Although I would LOVE to. Hehe.) But this one below always stood out to me and had a big impact. Still trying to keep this topic pg-13, their clothing -- or lack thereof -- implies to me of them becoming intimately closer with one another. But more so, do you see how Serenity's moon marking is not a simple marking but appears to be glowing? It seems to be reacting to Endymion, or her emotions, or the depth of their bond. I think if Serenity was feeling simply a crush or a rushed love that the energy within her would not react in the same manner. I believe that the glowing of her symbol signifies the attachment she now has with Endymion -- his death is physically and emotionally experienced by her now.



I do not think she would have felt any calling to defend her people after Endymion died. First, they were all dead. Her Senshi were her warriors, her Mother held the power of the Silver Crystal -- she herself had nothing to fight for really and no way of doing so.

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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Mamoru's parents and the people of the Earth.   3rd July 2011, 12:43 am

very good points. I hated how they portrayed such a weak bond in the anime between them! there's such a DEEP and nurturing bond they have! I mean, it surpassed time, even when they were reborn as completely different people. touche, jupiter. lol

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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Mamoru's parents and the people of the Earth.   3rd July 2011, 11:47 am

As a friendly reminder, please label your topics in this thread as either a Theory or a Debate. I changed it for you and labelled it as theory. Please reread the rules for the board and if you have any questions don't hesitate to message me. ^_^

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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Mamoru's parents and the people of the Earth.   8th July 2011, 12:49 pm

I loved this topic.

I would like to share here, the fact that Naoko was inspired by the greek legend of Selene and Endymion. I guess that she wanted to invert the story a little, because in fact, Endymion was asleep eternaly while Selene visited him.

Quote :
The love of Selene for Endymion was so familiar that the briefest reference would bring it to mind for the Greek listener or reader. No explicit narrative has come down to us, however, even in a fragment. In Argonautica (iv.57ff) the "daughter of Titan", the Moon, was witness to Medea's fearful night-time flight to Jason, and "rejoiced with malicious pleasure as she reflected to herself: 'I'm not the only one then to skulk off to the Latmian cave, nor is it only I that burn with desire for fair Endymion'" she muses. "But now you yourself it would seem, are a victim of a madness like mine."[15] Lemprière's Classical Dictionary reinforces Pliny's account of Endymion's attachment to astronomy and cites it as the source of why Endymion was said to have a relationship with the moon as she passed by.

Why I brought this up, besides the whole fact that their story was based on the greek legend? Naoko tried to romanticize that their legend would last forever, being on their Silver Millenium or our 'actual' days. I think that perhaps the whole Usagi/Mamoru romance might be rushed but not in the Moon, because even with these few explanations we have about their past (and we have more about their future, weird, uh?), I have the feeling that it happened for a good time. I wish that Naoko had worked more on it - maybe a special series or something like this.

:/

Off topic but not off topic: there's an online doujinshi by Winetta called Simple Sweetness and it is about Serenity and Endymion's lives before the War. It's so cute and the art is amazing, that in my head, sometimes, I consider it canon. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Mamoru's parents and the people of the Earth.   8th July 2011, 3:10 pm

@Nathy wrote:


Why I brought this up, besides the whole fact that their story was based on the greek legend? Naoko tried to romanticize that their legend would last forever, being on their Silver Millenium or our 'actual' days. I think that perhaps the whole Usagi/Mamoru romance might be rushed but not in the Moon, because even with these few explanations we have about their past (and we have more about their future, weird, uh?), I have the feeling that it happened for a good time. I wish that Naoko had worked more on it - maybe a special series or something like this.

I agree. Smile Thank you for including that! I too wish that Naoko would have included more on it. She drops little hints about Venus and Kunzite as well that would have been cute to see more of. Also, Serenity looks so young in the early panels, and then also mature -- it would have been nice to see her interaction with Endymion through their relationship. Smile

And ohmygosh, thank you SO MUCH for the doujinshi link! The artwork is exquisite. I have never heard of it before, but I am always looking for doujinshi about Usagi and Mamoru -- especially one that has good art. Thank you! I shall certainly be reading it. Smile Perhaps we can talk about it when I am finsihed. ^^

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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Mamoru's parents and the people of the Earth.   8th July 2011, 9:21 pm

@Nathy wrote:
Off topic but not off topic: there's an online doujinshi by Winetta called Simple Sweetness and it is about Serenity and Endymion's lives before the War. It's so cute and the art is amazing, that in my head, sometimes, I consider it canon. Smile

Oh! I linked to her webcomic on the webcomics page. Except I only had her deviantart page. She called it Silver Legacy. It has SUCH SUCH SUCH gorgeous art. I really love the interaction between the characters and showing the outer Senshi and just lots of omg. XD

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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Mamoru's parents and the people of the Earth.   9th July 2011, 4:04 am

I actually found a very small panel in which we see Mamoru's parents.


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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Mamoru's parents and the people of the Earth.   9th July 2011, 4:42 am

Sailor Jupiter wrote:
@Nathy wrote:


Why I brought this up, besides the whole fact that their story was based on the greek legend? Naoko tried to romanticize that their legend would last forever, being on their Silver Millenium or our 'actual' days. I think that perhaps the whole Usagi/Mamoru romance might be rushed but not in the Moon, because even with these few explanations we have about their past (and we have more about their future, weird, uh?), I have the feeling that it happened for a good time. I wish that Naoko had worked more on it - maybe a special series or something like this.

I agree. Smile Thank you for including that! I too wish that Naoko would have included more on it. She drops little hints about Venus and Kunzite as well that would have been cute to see more of. Also, Serenity looks so young in the early panels, and then also mature -- it would have been nice to see her interaction with Endymion through their relationship. Smile

And ohmygosh, thank you SO MUCH for the doujinshi link! The artwork is exquisite. I have never heard of it before, but I am always looking for doujinshi about Usagi and Mamoru -- especially one that has good art. Thank you! I shall certainly be reading it. Smile Perhaps we can talk about it when I am finsihed. ^^

Exactly! I had forgotten about the hints about Kunzite and Venus and I only remembered it when I was sleeping (ngl, I dream with things i forget to say and it includes Sailor Moon! :lolz: )

That doujinshi is almost canon to me, because it explores how they have met and how they keepmeeting each other. Winetta - the artist - said she'll be back with the story soon, she said she isn't having much time to update the site, but it's very good. Smile
(I'm always looking for Usa/Mamo-chan doujinshis, but errr, my collection is very nc-17, so far! )


@Brit-chan wrote:
@Nathy wrote:
Off topic but not off topic: there's an online doujinshi by Winetta called Simple Sweetness and it is about Serenity and Endymion's lives before the War. It's so cute and the art is amazing, that in my head, sometimes, I consider it canon. Smile

Oh! I linked to her webcomic on the webcomics page. Except I only had her deviantart page. She called it Silver Legacy. It has SUCH SUCH SUCH gorgeous art. I really love the interaction between the characters and showing the outer Senshi and just lots of omg. XD

OMG, thank you for correcting me! It's "Silver Legacy" and not "Simple Sweetness"! Thank you so much, Brit-chan!

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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Mamoru's parents and the people of the Earth.   9th July 2011, 5:41 am

@Nathy wrote:
Sailor Jupiter wrote:
@Nathy wrote:


Why I brought this up, besides the whole fact that their story was based on the greek legend? Naoko tried to romanticize that their legend would last forever, being on their Silver Millenium or our 'actual' days. I think that perhaps the whole Usagi/Mamoru romance might be rushed but not in the Moon, because even with these few explanations we have about their past (and we have more about their future, weird, uh?), I have the feeling that it happened for a good time. I wish that Naoko had worked more on it - maybe a special series or something like this.

I agree. Smile Thank you for including that! I too wish that Naoko would have included more on it. She drops little hints about Venus and Kunzite as well that would have been cute to see more of. Also, Serenity looks so young in the early panels, and then also mature -- it would have been nice to see her interaction with Endymion through their relationship. Smile

And ohmygosh, thank you SO MUCH for the doujinshi link! The artwork is exquisite. I have never heard of it before, but I am always looking for doujinshi about Usagi and Mamoru -- especially one that has good art. Thank you! I shall certainly be reading it. Smile Perhaps we can talk about it when I am finsihed. ^^

Exactly! I had forgotten about the hints about Kunzite and Venus and I only remembered it when I was sleeping (ngl, I dream with things i forget to say and it includes Sailor Moon! :lolz: )

That doujinshi is almost canon to me, because it explores how they have met and how they keepmeeting each other. Winetta - the artist - said she'll be back with the story soon, she said she isn't having much time to update the site, but it's very good. Smile
(I'm always looking for Usa/Mamo-chan doujinshis, but errr, my collection is very nc-17, so far! )


@Brit-chan wrote:
@Nathy wrote:
Off topic but not off topic: there's an online doujinshi by Winetta called Simple Sweetness and it is about Serenity and Endymion's lives before the War. It's so cute and the art is amazing, that in my head, sometimes, I consider it canon. Smile

Oh! I linked to her webcomic on the webcomics page. Except I only had her deviantart page. She called it Silver Legacy. It has SUCH SUCH SUCH gorgeous art. I really love the interaction between the characters and showing the outer Senshi and just lots of omg. XD

OMG, thank you for correcting me! It's "Silver Legacy" and not "Simple Sweetness"! Thank you so much, Brit-chan!


Please remember to stay on topic. ^-^

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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Mamoru's parents and the people of the Earth.   9th July 2011, 10:44 am

Quick off topic so we can get back on topic: On Silver Legacy, i think she updates it more on her deviantart page. There are a lot more chapters from what I remember than on her website.


Btw, Silver Legacy is sorta on topic because it explores Prince Endymion's parents more. It might not be canon, but its definitely interesting to think about. There was a King and Queen and they travelled to different kingdoms and the Prince at first didn't want to take on his duty as the heir. Real interesting.

I'm just going to assume there was a King and Queen, but Naoko didn't really include them because she didn't think it was necessary to progress her story. Mainly because I think she wanted to focus on the love of Endymion and Serenity and the destruction of the Moon Kingdom. Also perhaps, I think when they are making manga, they are on a time schedule, so its possible she simply didn't have the time to go into it more or her editors told her not too.

Usually a lot of authors, when creating whole new Kingdoms and such like this, flesh out a lot more about it than what is shown in the manga. Its possible Naoko had pages of notes about it. It would be interesting to read if she did. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Mamoru's parents and the people of the Earth.   9th July 2011, 6:59 pm

@Brit-chan wrote:
Quick off topic so we can get back on topic: On Silver Legacy, i think she updates it more on her deviantart page. There are a lot more chapters from what I remember than on her website.


Btw, Silver Legacy is sorta on topic because it explores Prince Endymion's parents more. It might not be canon, but its definitely interesting to think about. There was a King and Queen and they travelled to different kingdoms and the Prince at first didn't want to take on his duty as the heir. Real interesting.

I'm just going to assume there was a King and Queen, but Naoko didn't really include them because she didn't think it was necessary to progress her story. Mainly because I think she wanted to focus on the love of Endymion and Serenity and the destruction of the Moon Kingdom. Also perhaps, I think when they are making manga, they are on a time schedule, so its possible she simply didn't have the time to go into it more or her editors told her not too.

Usually a lot of authors, when creating whole new Kingdoms and such like this, flesh out a lot more about it than what is shown in the manga. Its possible Naoko had pages of notes about it. It would be interesting to read if she did. Very Happy

Given the fact that the story is centered around Usagi, we wouldn't know much about Mamoru/Endymion and sometimes, this is what lacks for future understanding of the series - how they met, how they kept escaping to meet each other, was he the king already or was he just running away from said duties like on "Silver Legacy"? - or even to understand Mamoru: his connection with the past seems to be the same, a young man with no one around, no parents, no family...

I don't think that Naoko wanted it to be this way and like you said, maybe they had a schedule and they had to 'rush' these things, but at the same time, like there are parallel stories (like Chibimoon's diaries), it would be nice to have Endymion's life explored more.

I *still* cross my fingers that Naoko decides to do something like this. Some of the people who worked with her released doujinshis about Mamoru/Usagi that are considered canon, I need to know if some of these portrait Endymion and Serenity from the past.

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Theory: Mamoru's parents and the people of the Earth.

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The Galaxy Cauldron :: General Sailor Moon Discussions :: Theories, Debates and Headcanons-