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Jupiter Rose
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   5th July 2012, 9:06 pm

Ahhh of course ^^ everyone is entitled to their opinion; there is no right and wrong. And I love seeing why people love Usagi x Mamoru so much and then sharing why I love Usagi x Seiya along with Usagi x Mamoru and hearing why other people like Usagi x Seiya.

I'll have to give these a look at. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   29th July 2012, 11:50 am

@Crystalsetsuna wrote:
some people seem to only want the idea of you choosing your own destiny, despite seeing a future that's contrary, so they insist Usagi and Seiya be together.




For me the assumption that only with Seiya Usagi would be choosing her own destiny and with Mamoru she isn’t, is biased.

Future is what it is, because Usagi chose it that way.



Lady Tuxedo wrote:
I think what grabs people most about Usagi x Mamoru is the romantic factor of: their love transcends into the present.




For me personally it isn’t – I had supported ardently Usagi x Mamoru for 35 weeks, before I knew about their past. Their present interactions got me hooked.





Lady Tuxedo wrote:
The whole "Mamoru's known her longer" thing isn't fair either. At one point in time, during the present, Usagi and Mamoru didn't know each other or even like each other (and then that magically changed lol). Everyone starts out as a stranger and then builds a relationship that takes time.




Yes – and this process of building a relationship is the most interesting to watch. Usagi and Mamoru has build their relationship for almost two years and would be difficult for a new interloper to compete with. So it may not be “fair”, but it’s how it is.



Lady Tuxedo wrote:
The reason why is because I feel like Seiya's personality fits with hers so much better. Mamoru's...not so much. That whole "opposites attract" thing usually is nonsense when it comes to relationships




And what aspects of Seiya's and Usagi’s personalities fit in your opinion? Because I think that Seiya’s competitiveness and Usagi’s agreeableness would clash terribly in the long run.

It’s not exactly that “opposites attract” , but that people with different traits complementing each other. Besides, Mamoru and Usagi may be opposites in temper, but they have the same values.



Lady Tuxedo wrote:
Also, just because they were lovers in their past lives does not mean they're destined for each other.


I agree, but they repeatedly have proved their love in the present.



@thewhitemoonfamily wrote:
I mean, I really like Usagi and Mamoru more in the anime, since they're flawed and more humanistic to me. The manga is an AMAZING telling of their story of course, but I think they are too perfect in it. Not a lot of people agree with that though.




I do, too Smile



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Sailor Uranus, these links aren’t working for me and I can’t read your analysis…
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   29th July 2012, 12:51 pm

Aw sad! :/ It works for me; it's my tumblr http://kyralih.tumblr.com and you search 'sailor moon episode analysis' ( http://kyralih.tumblr.com/search/sailor+moon+episode+analysis ) and the two installments I have there are the one's I've got. ...:/ I should do another one pretty soon. ^^'


BUT JUPITER OMG THOSE ARTICLES!! <3 <3 <3

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   29th July 2012, 1:21 pm

Omg Moonlight Lady you found like my second Sailor Moon OTP. I knew it XD I love that you love debating; it keeps this area alive Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   29th July 2012, 3:24 pm

i was wondering if this was a hopeless topic....XD

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   29th July 2012, 3:54 pm

Nuuuuu! I love me some Usagi x Seiya <3 and I'll defend them! Lol

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   30th July 2012, 12:17 pm

Sailor Uranus, with these links I can see only white page with a circle in the center Crying or Very sad ...

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   4th August 2012, 8:44 am

^^ Thank you, both Moonlight Lady and Sailor Uranus on your comments about my articles. I do love these topics.

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
And what aspects of Seiya's and Usagi’s personalities fit in your opinion? Because I think that Seiya’s competitiveness and Usagi’s agreeableness would clash terribly in the long run.

I can see how you would say that about Usagi and Seiya's personalities. Seiya is very competative and Usagi more times than not can come off as flighty or just not interested. But Usagi has a very determined streak of her own. As Sailor Moon she is probably the most determined Senshi of the group and I think that underlies her personality as Usagi as well. But also in other tendencies as Usagi, when she sets her mind to something (as silly as it may be) she will not be deterred.

But not just that, Usagi and Seiya are both goofballs at heart and get flustered easily and are so good at being witty with one another. Usagi rarely banters with anyone else (she and Rei more argue than banter) and with Seiya she really gets into that. I love the humour Seiya and Usagi bring when together.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   4th August 2012, 1:43 pm

Their early interactions I also find funny - but rather funny to watch than as two people having fun together... Later however, when Seiya's feelings surface, some anxiety appears in them.

I see competetiveness as different from determinaton - Seiya for me likes competing and takes pleasure in finding new fights to win - that's why he thrives in sport, which Usagi detests...

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   18th August 2012, 4:41 pm

You guys make really good points! I think both Seiya and Mamo are good for her, but Mamo is the one she was meant to be with. I with Usagi and Seiya could have had some time together without Usagi dating Mamo. Seiya is good for her to just date casually and have fun with, it would be that kind of relationship that isn't meant to last forever but it's light and fun and gives you butterflies. Her relationship with Mamo is much deeper because he's seen her go through so much and he's perfect and blah blah blah.

Basically I guess what I'm saying is that they're both good for her, just in different ways.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   18th August 2012, 4:54 pm

I really really like Seiya x Usagi in the anime - the manga, the love story of usamamo totally sells; but in the anime? In the beginning, yeah, but the more it goes on, the more I find myself hating Mamo and just getting a little bored. I don't understand why, because they were in love during their previous life, that they have the be "destined" in their current one. Its also a idyllic view of love - that only one person can make another completely happy. I really feel like, if Usagi embraced Seiya, the relationship could work well. They certainty have more compatible personalities; while Mamoru is more regal and mature, Seiya is more fun and relaxed. I see Seiya as fitting the Usagi side and Mamoru as fitting the Serenity - the choice is.. does she choose the path laid out before her (as a queen) or does she choose her own?

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   18th August 2012, 5:32 pm

that's why the subtitle is " Destiny or choosing your own path?" ^^

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   18th August 2012, 5:40 pm

@Crystalsetsuna wrote:
that's why the subtitle is " Destiny or choosing your own path?" ^^

lol I totally didn't notice; I found the topic through the sidebar.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   18th August 2012, 5:42 pm

Mamoru is very boring in the anime, but I like him in the manga so seiya wins in the anime in my book.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   19th August 2012, 5:37 am

But why the assumption that life with Mamoru wouldn't be choosing her path, only bearing responsibility put upon her by destiny? Hasn't she chosen Mamoru over and over again?

And I don't really see Seiya and Usagi as having fun together.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   19th August 2012, 7:06 am

i chose to term destiny because she's been told that she and Mamoru marry in the future, have a child and rule a kingdom. hint hint, destiny.

choosing her own path would be veering away from what seems to be expected of her, everyone expects her to marry mamo-chan and have chibiusa and all this stuff.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   19th August 2012, 10:31 am

Their future together will happen only because of the choices Usagi has made. And she is expected by everyone to marry Mamoru, because she has repeatedly stated it to be her wish.

The notion of "destiny" suggests being ruled by external force, which I can't see as valid in the case of Usagi attitude to Mamoru.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   19th August 2012, 10:34 am

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
And I don't really see Seiya and Usagi as having fun together.

How do you not see Seiya and Usagi having fun together? o_o did you miss episode 181? XD and just the cute stuff they do in general in other episodes?

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   19th August 2012, 11:24 am

Usagi really doesn't in fact have fun with Seiya - she is either depressed for Mamoru or irritated with Seiya's attitude or cautious, when she's afraid of his advances or embarrassed and relieved, when he turns out to be innocent - but fun there ain't for her. Even when they form a bond it's not based on her having fun, but on her being all-loving and lonely.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   19th August 2012, 11:51 am

o_o there is totally fun involved with Usagi and Seiya. I guess you interpret it way differently. I, and others, can see the fun between the two. They do enjoy themselves when they are around each other.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   19th August 2012, 12:27 pm

Hmmm. Good points about Seiya and Usagi not having fun together. I guess what is meant by "fun" is just the fun little feelings you have when you're crushing on someone like they are. I think about when I was younger and I acted like I hated people because I liked them. Although you are frustrated with them, it's secretly kind of fun to have your little crush.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   19th August 2012, 12:34 pm

The fun is on Seiya's part, not Usagi's. I'm not saying she does not enjoy his company - she does, when he does not cross her boundaries - and she clearly starts caring for him, but I can't rememeber her having fun with him.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   19th August 2012, 3:28 pm

i feel like i didn't explain my reasoning well enough....

okay, Usagi and Mamoru fell in love, because Serenity and Endymion did right? it was fate that they met and fell in love again. and yes, Usagi expressed that she wanted to be with him, and it just so happened her fate/destiny was to be with him. but what if it wasn't? what if she chose to walk another path rather than the one fate seems to have in store for her?

....am i doing any better now?

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   19th August 2012, 3:52 pm

I get what your saying Crystalsetsuna. Did Usagi and Mamoru fall in love because the stars aligned and fate commanded it so? or would they have fallen in love regardless of their past lives?
Am I hearing reading you right?

I've never really thought about it before. I always thought that Usagi and Mamoru were destined to be together and hadn't really thought about if they had a choice about it. I guess it was a good thing they have a nice relationship instead of feeling compelled to be together eventhough niether of them are happy and the relationship is unhealthy.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   19th August 2012, 4:01 pm

i think so.... i'm just trying to make sense. XD

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   20th August 2012, 10:41 am

@Crystalsetsuna wrote:
i feel like i didn't explain my reasoning well enough....

okay, Usagi and Mamoru fell in love, because Serenity and Endymion did right? it was fate that they met and fell in love again. and yes, Usagi expressed that she wanted to be with him, and it just so happened her fate/destiny was to be with him. but what if it wasn't? what if she chose to walk another path rather than the one fate seems to have in store for her?

....am i doing any better now?

While its fate that they met, I think regardless of destiny and their past lives, they would have fallen in love anyway. You could see hints of Usagi and Mamoru liking each other before they knew each others identities in the anime. And in the manga, it was way obvious she was in love with Tuxedo Mask/Mamoru just for him being Mamoru (and vice versa on Mamoru's part). Because they had pretty much fallen for each other before they remembered their past lives. I think the anime depends too much on the "they had a past love together so that is why they are in love." Because I think its pretty apparent in other versions of Sailor Moon that that is not the reason they fell in love. Its fate that they meet each other, but I feel like they form the love before they realize it is fate. Its one of those things where when you do realize its fate its like "oh wow, this is cool. We were totally meant to be together" and makes your love that much stronger.

I like Seiya and Usagi as best friends. I think once Seiya realizes her love is unrequitted (which she does at some point) its not so bad. I think they could have a fun relationship in that aspect. I think this was stated before, but I also think if maybe Usagi and Seiya had met before she knew Mamoru, then maybe they would have dated. They probably would have done well together, but I don't think they would have been soul mates. A lot of the reason Seiya liked Usagi was because she reminded her of Kakyuu, which I feel there was probably a much deeper relationship between Seiya and Kakyuu that wasn't developed on much, but hinted at.


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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   20th August 2012, 12:36 pm

@Crystalsetsuna wrote:
Usagi and Mamoru fell in love, because Serenity and Endymion did right? it was fate that they met and fell in love again.


Now I'm a little confused - so are we talking about their destiny and their future together or about past life in ancient times? Because it's not the same ...

Fate gave Mamoru and Usagi another chance Endymion and Serenity didn't have and they both have chosen (more than once) to meet it.



@Luna Nova wrote:
feeling compelled to be together eventhough niether of them are happy and the relationship is unhealthy




But why should they be compelled to continue unhappy and unhealthy relationship just because of their past life?



Small Lady wrote:
I think the anime depends too much on the "they had a past love together so that is why they are in love." Because I think its pretty apparent in other versions of Sailor Moon that that is not the reason they fell in love.


I think that the main difference between anime and manga is that in anime they don't know that they are also Tuxedo Kamen and Sailor Moon, so it's confusing with two relationships (arguably Mamoru has third with the girl of his dreams).
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   20th August 2012, 3:18 pm

I personally wouldn't knock out Seiya as a could-have-been soul mate. I believe it's possible to have more than one soul mate, even in the romantic/sexual sense. Because when you date people and you fall for them, you fall in a different kind of love than say the previous person you dated. Usagi could have been in love with Seiya, had they like met before Mamoru and all that, but for a different reason she is in love with Mamoru. The love you fall into is different every time you fall (given you fall more than once). Does that make sense?

This is seriously a "what if" topic, because, well, if Usagi had met Seiya prior to Mamoru, I really feel that they would be each others' soul mates and would always be together. I really think they're compatible. I think a large majority of the time the whole "opposites attract" thing is a bunch of BS (note that I didn't say always lol). But it just so happens that Mamoru met Usagi first and since Mamoru is her soul mate (one of, anyway, using this idea), they will always be together.

Also, I don't think Seiya's love for Usagi is entirely based on how she feels for Kakyuu or anything. I mean, sure at first, that's what draws Seiya to Usagi, but after awhile, Seiya begins to really feel something genuine for Usagi, no Kakyuu strings attached.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   21st August 2012, 12:40 pm

I think that Sailor Starlights regard for Princess Kakyuu is different from the way our senshi treat Usagi. Sailor Starfighter IMO adores her princess, so it makes sense that she would transmit these feelings to similar person, but more "accessible".

Usagi without meeting Mamoru would be different person, so it's difficult to speculate whether she would like Seiya or he would feel for her. But I think that Seiya in big doses would be still exhausting.

Also main part of Usagi liking Seiya happened because of her loneliness - not only lack of mamoru, but also distancing from friends to not talk about him Sad So what would be with this relationship in different circustances?

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   21st August 2012, 12:44 pm

Since it's Usagi, I feel like it could honestly go either way under say normal circumstances. She could go "Oh crap, I think I feel something for Seiya" or would feel nothing at all. Or, since we're talking about Usagi, she'd be completely oblivious to her own feelings and Seiya's.

But it could definitely go either way. And this is in regard to if Mamoru had stayed in Japan with her and was still alive.

I don't think Mamoru had that much of an impact on her personality and who she is. She's still the same silly, sweet, big hearted, naive, etc. girl she is/was before Mamoru. What changes her most is her role as a senshi; it molds her into a more mature warrior really.

I don't want to peg the entire thing with Usagi and Seiya on loneliness. I mean, maybe at the start it could be loneliness, but then over time, I see it as having developed on its own for reasons such as their personalities and compatibility.

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The Galaxy Cauldron :: General Sailor Moon Discussions :: Theories, Debates and Headcanons-