HomePortalFAQRegisterLog in
Share | 
 

 Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12, 13  Next
AuthorMessage
Ktenshi
Pyramidal Crystal


Pyramidal Crystal

Title : M.I.A
Posts : 701
Join date : 2012-11-10
Age : 30

PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   11th April 2013, 8:56 pm

@nerf-or-nothing wrote:
What is and what isn't is only your opinion and by saying....

Quote :
Again, it's not because of Chibiusa they stayed together.

Lets try this one more time: It's not because of Chibiusa they stayed together.

Was actually kind of rude. We are entitled to have our own opinions and what your saying isnt fact, it's opinion. for all we know, they could have stayed together because of Chibiusa, if you don't like other peoples opinions you shouldn't debate.

I apologize if it sounds rude to you.

But where does it say that your opinion that they stayed together for and because of chibiusa is a fact as well? You say we all know, like it is an obvious blanket statement that the characters know what the audience knows. That's two separate things and no, not everyone believes that or knows if that's the fact.

the Fact is:

Usagi loves Mamoru. She loved him before Chibiusa appeared on the scene. She loved him and stayed not because of Chibiusa but because she really loves being with the guy. She's often with him without Chibiusa present and it's Chibiusa who seems to always try to get between them. She's the one that's trying to ensure her existence. Neither Mamoru or Usagi have second thoughts about their relationship after they resolved their problems after R.


Is the problem with them that they don't bicker anymore? That he doesn't tease her?

Back to top Go down
nerf-or-nothing
Star Seed


Star Seed

Title : The Hybrid Enigma
Posts : 1463
Join date : 2013-01-08
Location : A far away land, where mystery and adventure are rich and bountiful, and where dreams are not wished, but granted <3


PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   11th April 2013, 8:59 pm

I didn't say it was fact, I said it was opinion that's why I said "for all we know"

I already stated the Usagi loves Mamoru and he loves her but it does not mean your opinion is the only one or that it is fact.

The whole reason behind the teasing(Not bickering I didn't say bickering, there is a difference) is because the teasing was flirting and it instantly stopped and went to sighing.
Back to top Go down
Ktenshi
Pyramidal Crystal


Pyramidal Crystal

Title : M.I.A
Posts : 701
Join date : 2012-11-10
Age : 30

PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   11th April 2013, 9:16 pm

But it didn't instantly stop and it doesn't always end up as sighing or anything like that. Is there a rule that couples should never get on each other's nerves? Do they always need to flirt? Not to mention, just because they don't flirt as we expect them to, doesn't make their love any less valid. He still does little things for her and she still does things for him. Just because he doesn't tease her, doesn't mean she won't tease him on occasion. And she does tease him too- enough that he blushed once or twice.
Back to top Go down
nerf-or-nothing
Star Seed


Star Seed

Title : The Hybrid Enigma
Posts : 1463
Join date : 2013-01-08
Location : A far away land, where mystery and adventure are rich and bountiful, and where dreams are not wished, but granted <3


PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   11th April 2013, 10:14 pm

In my experience with relationships Manga Usagi and Mamoru are in love, anime Mamoru and Usagi just love each other but aren't in love.
Back to top Go down
Lust
Lotus Crystal


Lotus Crystal

Title : ❤ Dead Moon Queen ❤
Posts : 7054
Join date : 2012-01-20
Age : 24
Location : Florida, USA


PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   11th April 2013, 10:22 pm

@nerf-or-nothing wrote:
In my experience with relationships Manga Usagi and Mamoru are in love, anime Mamoru and Usagi just love each other but aren't in love.

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

___________________________

  
Avatar by Lust / Sigs by Lust, Mercury, Uranus, Neptune, Averi, NQS, Brit, Aztnara / Nehelenia Bumper by Mercury
Back to top Go down
Moonlight Lady
Star Seed


Star Seed

Posts : 664
Join date : 2012-07-15
Location : Poland


PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   13th April 2013, 11:33 am

Isn't loving more than being in love?

The thing with "they are together just because of Chibiusa" theory is that it has no basis in canon - it serves only as explanation for Usagi/Seiya shippers.

Their teasing in first season was a way of dealing with growing feelings. Once they are together and can communicate their love openly, it's not necessary. In fact, IMO SM is one of few stories who did it right - too often UST in couples is way to overlong after they are already on relationship.

Quote :
to tell the truth I'm surprised no one on the Team thought this was weird that he's missing. He has no one else, who's going to look for him if that happened? Why aren't they suspicious?

Everybody believed that Mamoru was the whole time in contact with Usagi - once girls know he didn't write or call, they immediately investigate.

___________________________

Avatar made by Sailor Jupiter - I thank you cordially.

Back to top Go down
http://neoma2.tumblr.com/
Brit-chan
Senior Member
Small Lady Emeritus


Senior Member  Small Lady Emeritus

Title : Queen of the Cat Kingdom
Posts : 20319
Join date : 2011-06-23
Age : 29
Location : Lafayette, LA


PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   13th April 2013, 1:03 pm

@nerf-or-nothing wrote:
In my experience with relationships Manga Usagi and Mamoru are in love, anime Mamoru and Usagi just love each other but aren't in love.

This quote kinda baffles me (and doesn't make too much sense to me either, but point of view i guess). This is like saying that my relationship with my fiance is like that. I can relate to Usagi and Mamoru's relationship in the anime a lot. There is nothing wrong with a guy who wants to read or just be chill while his girlfriend hangs out with him. That is pretty much the basis of my own relationship, except the BF is playing games and I chitchat with friends online. o.o Just because we aren't lovey-dovey with each other all the time or have romantic moments all the times doesn't mean we aren't in love and the same can go for Mamoru and Usagi.

There are points in relationships where its not about those happy yay passionate feelings you get in the beginning. There is a point where the growth of your relationship is just based on your daily activities spent with each other. There is a point in all long term relationships where you just don't need to be passionate with each other, but still know you are in love.

___________________________


Avie by Marsiepan|| Eternal Knight's Myufu <3

Back to top Go down
http://seaofserenity.net http://britchan.tumblr.com/ http://brit-chan.deviantart.com
Moonlight Lady
Star Seed


Star Seed

Posts : 664
Join date : 2012-07-15
Location : Poland


PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   13th April 2013, 1:55 pm

Quote :
Though makes you wonder if that was the sole point of her going into the past now- so the future NQS and King Endymion would have a lot of alone time.)

They wouldn't do it. really, would they?

Also, Mamoru can't be that much older than Usagi, because of R movie. So the most likely he is four years older, which is pretty standard. Also, in Japan adulthood is at 20 years old, which Mamoru most likely isn't, maybe in last season.

___________________________

Avatar made by Sailor Jupiter - I thank you cordially.

Back to top Go down
http://neoma2.tumblr.com/
nerf-or-nothing
Star Seed


Star Seed

Title : The Hybrid Enigma
Posts : 1463
Join date : 2013-01-08
Location : A far away land, where mystery and adventure are rich and bountiful, and where dreams are not wished, but granted <3


PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   13th April 2013, 3:38 pm

I'm about to go in depth with these again like in my previous comments. Before I get started, this is opinion and please respect that as I've been respectful of others opinions.


When it comes to Manga Usagi and Mamoru they are most definitely in love and I do not see any romantic connection between Seiya and Usagi in the manga. Usagi and Mamoru have 10x the interaction that the anime does not have. They hang out more, the communicate more and the don't ever really break up and Mamoru doesn't seem to have been serious about anyone but her. It wasn't just Sailor Moon that Mamoru was interested in, he was very interested in Usagi from the beginning and he made the connection of who she really was all by himself. Usagi also had dreams about Mamoru where the in the anime, she didn't have dreams until the R season and even then it was one dream. In the manga they have a telepathic connection, they are intimate and Mamoru actually seems to enjoy their time together.

Jump to the anime.

In the beginning, Usagi and Mamoru tease each other. There is a budding growth of feelings but not much and in fact Mamoru and Rei are seeing each other. Usagi and Mamoru's teasing is only slightly flirtatious towards the end of the first season.

Usagi has a crushes on Motoki and Tuxedo Mask, she can absolutely NOT stand Mamoru at all. Usagi has a big heart, she cares about everyone and worries about everyone EVEN IF they are enemies so she doesn't need to love someone to want to protect them.

There is not relationship between Uaagi and Mamoru and they are just starting to like each other as possible friends when Usagi and Mamoru reveal their identities and they find out their past life.

Rei and Mamoru were still sort of an item when suddenly the past is revealed and it's mutually expected that despite Rei and Mamoru's connection, that is now over and Mamoru belongs to Usagi.

Enter Ail and Ann. This saga was not even in the manga, it was a filler. They used this saga to build the relationship a bit more for Usagi and Mamoru since there was nothing but a past life to suggest they cared about each other in that specific sort of way.

It is clear Usagi only cares about Mamoru AFTER Luna awakens her memories, before hand she did not care whatsoever and it did not matter.

Usagi is a 14 year old girl, she is enamored with the thought of love. We know she is a daydreamer and she adores romance! Especially magical romances as we saw in the first season she even day dreamed about Tuxedo Kamen and Motoki dancing with her at the same time(Very ambitious and naughty of her I might add, thinking of two men in a romantic aspect at the same time whether it was just dancing or not.)

Once her memories are regained she is romanticized again, she is after all a VERY young girl, having 2 years before being 14 being a prepubescent girl and yes, I do believe 12 year olds aren't full equipped physically and mentally to have a mature love and 2 years from 12 doesn't exactly make her ready either.(Mind you, I had my period when I was 10, that didn't make me anymore physically ready for love, that was just the beginning of my body maturing, not my mind.)

This also explains her insane jealousy since, after all, she's still a kid and whats hers is hers. Rei handed him over to her because of their past life, Ann in Usagi's mind is out of line even though Usagi and Mamoru aren't dating and they never even dated, they died before they could even have their first date! But, again, suddenly because of past life memories and no actual relationship is the present, Mamoru belongs to Usagi and that is that. That doesn't seem like love to me, that seems like clinging to a past ideal that had died and it doesn't make sense. They should have BUILT their love first like in the manga, but they DIDN'T. And it shouldn't be expected to just be the same. Serenity and Usagi are the same person but they have VERY different lives and very different personalities.

When it came to the end of the saga Usagi of course loves Mamoru, she's a young girl and suddenly she's a hero, then a princess and she even has a boyfriend(despite never actually going out, it was just assumed they would because of a past life) so of course she is going to go along with it. Usagi hasn't exactly been mature for her age and this is a very ideal situation for her.

Then suddenly they are in love and dating withever ever having ACTUALLY FALLEN in love in this new life, instead they just pick up where they died in the past. Seems more like they are reliving their past life, they never even got to form a bond before they started dating, they just jumped into it like it was expected.

And of course but are enjoying it, they're young! I've seen so many people jump into relationships just because they don't want to be alone and that's all it is. It's FUN to have someone to go out with, it's enjoyable to kiss and cuddle and they got to skip all the important parts. They didn't have the courting experience, the flirting and they skipped the awkward and hard "I love you" confession" and those are VERY important aspects of a relationship. Instead, they took the easy "we liked each other in a past life so let's give it ago now that we remember despite not having romantic feelings until we were forced to remember"

Now that they have this mind set, if the R saga did not happen their differences most likely would have driven them apart. Age isn't the factor, it's the level in maturity that does and Usagi no matter how much I love her is NOT mature, she is very IMMATURE and Mamoru is very mature. Mamoru has had to live on his own since he was a small boy. Usagi's been spoiled her entire life.

We see this when Mamoru sighs, and sweatdrops and even avoids kissing her and he acts cold and distant to her. People forget, Neo King Endymoin is STILL Mamoru and Mamoru didn't HAVE to listen to those "She'll be hurt if you remain with her" dreams. In fact it seemed more like an easy way out, and he took whatever opportunity to push her away CONSTANTLY through the entire Anime.

Quote :
In my experience with relationships Manga Usagi and Mamoru are in love, anime Mamoru and Usagi just love each other but aren't in love.

And here is where I can understand. Not all guys like to break up with girls. So a lot of the time, they will deliberately push the girl away with their words and or actions hoping SHE will dump HIM so it's easier. Mamoru acts like this so often, but Usagi being a 14 almost clingy type of girl wouldn't ever dump him no matter what, after all her moto has always been that she can change and save everyone.

After Chibiusa visits, and it is realized she is there daughter Mamoru falls in love. I'm sure he'd be a wonderful father, probably spoils her rotten.

It is VERY common that some marriages, some couples stay together only because of the kids. Chibiusa may have been from the future but they MET her, they BONDED with her and they fell in love with her. A future possibility or not, breaking up was not an acceptable option and any parent that loves their child can understand that. It would be like killing their child, and good parents wouldn't do that, they'd sooner die then let something bad happen to their child.

Mamoru treats Chibiusa better then Usagi most often than not. Usagi acts like a child most often than not. Mamoru is distant with Usagi most often than not. Usagi is going to MAmoru more then Mamoru goes to Usagi.

The anime failed at a lot of things(don't get me wrong, there was a lot of things in the anime I loved) but the anime was far more about Usagi and the senshi then about building any relationships with Usagi and Mamoru, and this is why so many people have an issue with them loving each other anime-wise.

In the manga they had so much time together and they were on equal footing and Usagi wasn't as immature and Mamoru wasn't as distant.

You can NOT say that the only reason people do not like Usagi and Mamoru in the anime is because they want an excuse to ship Seiya and Usagi because that isn't my line of reasoning at all and I just explained why my opinion is the way it is.

When I first saw the anime I ADORED Mamoru and I loved the budding connection between Usagi and Mamoru but that ended very quickly and became very boring. It was no longer interesting and at times I would get so fed up with how he treated her. Real love is not giving up, and Mamoru always gave up before he ever attempted to fight. That doesn't seem very loving to me.

The creators of the anime must have seen this as well, because Seiya was vastly different from her manga counterpart, in fact she was now a he and HE acted just like Mamoru did in the first season, when so many fans enjoyed the relationship. HE was fighting for Usagi's attention and love in the anime when Mamoru NEVER did that.

Relationships that are boring DO NOT LAST and any love counselor and marriage counselor will tell you the same.

"If there are no fights, if someone or both constantly avoid fights and there is a notable lack of passion then most likely that person is not in love. There is no such thing as a perfect relationship. A lack of fighting back, a constant need to give up because you are tired and drained and just don't care is like a show of apathy. Apathy being the true opposite of love because in order to hate, you first have to care."

Basically arguing is better then not fighting at all. As long as there are still arguments, there is still passion but once that stops, and someone starts avoiding or doing anything they can to end fights and communication because they appeared tired with it, that's when you need to worry.

The manga made a direct effort to build a relationship and show their relationship in nearly every season. The anime was lazy, and did not do that. Can you honestly blame people for thinking otherwise? Mamoru isn't exactly a loving and attentive boyfriend, he's with drawn and acts almost like he is obligated. He is a good guy, he just doesn't strike me and many others as though he is IN love with Usagi and instead, he just simply loves her. When it comes to being IN love and LOVING someone there is a line that makes them different.

The whole reason why people say it is just because of Chibiusa in the anime that they stayed together is because of the lack of love Mamoru seems to have for Usagi. Who knows, amybe over time Mamoru was able to fall for her truly, but while the anime was running there is a lack of love on his part and this is why there seems to be a 50/50 split between why people think they love each other and why some people don't like anime-Mamoru.

One thing I have noticed though, everyone who seems to not like anime-Mamoru seems to adore his manga counterpart... and I am one of them :/
Back to top Go down
Moonlight Lady
Star Seed


Star Seed

Posts : 664
Join date : 2012-07-15
Location : Poland


PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   14th April 2013, 8:13 am

Seiya is nothing like Mamoru in first season - and Usagi's reacts differently to both boys. They both tease her at the beginning, but Mamoru isn't as pushy as Seiya. Usagi and Seiya get on friendly terms quickly and Usagi recognizes him as friend to the very end. With Mamoru it's great confusion of feelings - she states dislike, but she is clearly jealous of Rei and it can be noticed that her feelings are growing. She starts approaching Mamoru.

Usagi was crushing on Motoki, but then she saw how much he is into Reika and realised he sees her as little girl. I don't think that having earlier crush makes her feelings for Mamoru weaker. Also, I don't see how Rei/Mamoru negates Mamoru's love for Usagi - if any, you can compare his attention for two girls. Mamoru is indifferent to Rei and she starts realising it.

___________________________

Avatar made by Sailor Jupiter - I thank you cordially.

Back to top Go down
http://neoma2.tumblr.com/
Adelaide
Lotus Crystal


Lotus Crystal

Title : Unashamed Sailor Moon Crystal lover // Formerly Saturn Skyy - until I found out that it was the name of a car
Posts : 1044
Join date : 2013-03-07
Age : 25
Location : Arendele


PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   14th April 2013, 10:15 am

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Mamoru is indifferent to Rei and she starts realising it.

But Mamoru seems to become indifferent to Usagi pretty quickly.

She showers him in attention at all times and he shows basically none. I understand that everyone has different relationship styles, but they are at such opposite ends of the spectrum. FOr a happy relationship, you need to have similar wants and expectations. Usagi was constant adoring attention whereas Mamoru wants a laid back relationship and seems to almost ignore and avoid Usagi. They still have romantic moments, but the overall relationship seems to be characterized by mismatched expectations for each other.

___________________________



Siggies by: Lust, Mi Mako Chan, Brandi, NQS, Uranus, Sailor Candy, Mary, SailorKittyEleon and me! (Hopefully I didn't forget one!)
GC's Official Setsuna 
Back to top Go down
http://dianathemoonfairy.tumblr.com
Ktenshi
Pyramidal Crystal


Pyramidal Crystal

Title : M.I.A
Posts : 701
Join date : 2012-11-10
Age : 30

PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   14th April 2013, 10:29 am

Um, where does it say that all couples who don't argue have no passion? What if they do have passion but Mamoru's restraining himself because they're waiting for marriage? Heck, maybe he's letting her decide the next step there? WE don't know. We can only assume what they've done or not. And really, Usagi doesn't find the relationship boring. There's nothing that indicates she is unhappy where she is.

Just because you and some others find it boring doesn't mean everyone does. It is not the rule. Same goes for believing that chibiusa is their only reason to be together. That is all subjective and is not an actual fact. As in- if it's not literally said by the characters, not actually shown at all that either are resentful or tired of each other, then it is only speculation.

Not to mention, what in the world would they have to argue about? Money?- Nope because she still lives with her parents and Mamoru does odd jobs/inheirtance to keep him going. Do they have any reason to argue about jobs? Nope. Any reason to argue about Chibiusa? Nope. Because she's safe, happy, well fed, dressed and has a roof over her head with no other problems to be seen.

Their only disagreement would be over whether Usagi can keep her grades up and we've seen references to that. So literally, there is no point in them arguing because there's nothing to argue about. There is nothing wrong with being in a relationship where the couples don't argue much or at all. These exist and it doesn't always mean there's no passion or anything. Not to mention emotions fluxs, maybe they just don't see the need for it yet.

The only gripe about Mamoru breaking up with Usagi is literally for her own protection. If it wasn't for that, he'd totally be with her. It's been established again and again, that he would do anything to protect her. Why was this so different?

Also, Manga Makoto Said it best- he treats Chibiusa the way he does because Chibiusa is Usagi's child with him and of course he's going to treat their daughter differently. Also Chibiusa is a child and was once a very lonely child. Mamoru would've obviously connected with that because he was like that at one point. The Anime plays up Usagi's childishness to the tenth degree where as, at the same age and such, she would have been more mature at this point.

At this point she should be 15 yrs old. (at least in S because her birthday happened as well)

And is there any reason why Mamoru should go to Usagi? If anything the anime doesn't establish his relationship with her parents in order for him to easily go by her house and pick her up without any problems. For all we know, Kenji still doesn't approve and Mamoru wouldn't want to make a bad impression on him as, (here we go with cultural differences) it's probably utterly important to him to impress them.

Either way, this is all subjective there as we don't get much of a look at their relationship better from Super to Supers as it's all dedicated to Chibiusa and her relationship with others. Something was bound to suffer because of this focus shift.

Edit:

Mamoru's attentions towards Usagi is always going to be subtle and quiet because that's his characterization and again we're going over to Cultural differences and his background. After years of conditioning to be a certain way, it's going to take years for it to be undone. He's introvert where as she's extroverted. Also she's a girl, girls have always been characterized in shows aimed towards kids to be more open with their affections. (Heck not even in kids shows but in others.) Usagi falls into that stereotype just as he falls into the other.

Rei is so OOC from her manga counterpart it's ridiculous. But she knew from the get go that the relationship wasn't going to work and it was never official that they were an actual couple at all. If anything he probably viewed it as friendship at the very least.
Back to top Go down
Adelaide
Lotus Crystal


Lotus Crystal

Title : Unashamed Sailor Moon Crystal lover // Formerly Saturn Skyy - until I found out that it was the name of a car
Posts : 1044
Join date : 2013-03-07
Age : 25
Location : Arendele


PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   14th April 2013, 10:50 am

@Ktenshi wrote:
The Anime plays up Usagi's childishness to the tenth degree where as, at the same age and such, she would have been more mature at this point.

We are only debating the anime relationship. In every other version, Usagi is more mature and nobody is arguing that their relationship is troubled in any other version.

Part of the issue that some of us have brought up is Usagi's immaturity. I know part of the reason that I think they are incompatible at this point in their lives is her childishness. That is not to say that they are doomed forever.

Also, for something to argue about, Usagi makes it very clear that she is unhappy with how Chibiusa gets much more attention than she does. However, she does not address it directly and when it does come up, Mamoru shrugs it off. WHile fighting all the time is not always a good thing, they should be able to address conflicts and work through them - which often come out in fighting. In healthier relationship Usagi would be able to bring up her concern and Mamoru would acknowledge it. Instead, this issue continues on for a long time and Usagi is left unhappy with the dynamic that is currently going on.

___________________________



Siggies by: Lust, Mi Mako Chan, Brandi, NQS, Uranus, Sailor Candy, Mary, SailorKittyEleon and me! (Hopefully I didn't forget one!)
GC's Official Setsuna 
Back to top Go down
http://dianathemoonfairy.tumblr.com
Ktenshi
Pyramidal Crystal


Pyramidal Crystal

Title : M.I.A
Posts : 701
Join date : 2012-11-10
Age : 30

PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   14th April 2013, 10:58 am

Saturn Skyy wrote:
@Ktenshi wrote:
The Anime plays up Usagi's childishness to the tenth degree where as, at the same age and such, she would have been more mature at this point.

We are only debating the anime relationship. In every other version, Usagi is more mature and nobody is arguing that their relationship is troubled in any other version.

Part of the issue that some of us have brought up is Usagi's immaturity. I know part of the reason that I think they are incompatible at this point in their lives is her childishness. That is not to say that they are doomed forever.

Also, for something to argue about, Usagi makes it very clear that she is unhappy with how Chibiusa gets much more attention than she does. However, she does not address it directly and when it does come up, Mamoru shrugs it off. WHile fighting all the time is not always a good thing, they should be able to address conflicts and work through them - which often come out in fighting. In healthier relationship Usagi would be able to bring up her concern and Mamoru would acknowledge it. Instead, this issue continues on for a long time and Usagi is left unhappy with the dynamic that is currently going on.

I think it's because she never acts like she is really unhappy about it. Or rather, it is never played off as being serious concern when we see it. It's always played for laughs or something. Which really is probably with how she says it rather than her just saying it in all seriousness. I don't know about ignoring more so he doesn't know how to fix that because he can't just ignore Chibiusa as well. I know we're sticking to the anime version, but it's just that Usagi in the manga manages better to convey her unhappiness to him. anytime Usagi becomes very serious and not whining it out, he listens to her. He listens exceptionally well when she is serious about something and also is able to explain herself better.
Back to top Go down
Adelaide
Lotus Crystal


Lotus Crystal

Title : Unashamed Sailor Moon Crystal lover // Formerly Saturn Skyy - until I found out that it was the name of a car
Posts : 1044
Join date : 2013-03-07
Age : 25
Location : Arendele


PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   14th April 2013, 11:09 am

In the manga, they have a great communication style. THey have disagreements but alwyas work it out lovingly and respectfully. If Usagi in the anime had like half the maturity of her manga version, I would most likely be on your side.

I also just wanna add (because I' m not sure I said this right, or at all) that I see anime Usagi and Seyia together only because they have similar immaturity levels and seem to have some chemistry. I DO NOT think that they are soul mates or anything serious.

The ideal thing in my head would be that Usagi and Seyia could have a high school fling. Once Usagi grows up a bit more, i feel that she could then have the beautiful destined romance that she and Mamoru were meant to have

EDIT: Anyone else feel like this debate is a wee bit too heated?

___________________________



Siggies by: Lust, Mi Mako Chan, Brandi, NQS, Uranus, Sailor Candy, Mary, SailorKittyEleon and me! (Hopefully I didn't forget one!)
GC's Official Setsuna 
Back to top Go down
http://dianathemoonfairy.tumblr.com
Ktenshi
Pyramidal Crystal


Pyramidal Crystal

Title : M.I.A
Posts : 701
Join date : 2012-11-10
Age : 30

PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   14th April 2013, 11:28 am

Saturn Skyy wrote:
In the manga, they have a great communication style. THey have disagreements but alwyas work it out lovingly and respectfully. If Usagi in the anime had like half the maturity of her manga version, I would most likely be on your side.

I also just wanna add (because I' m not sure I said this right, or at all) that I see anime Usagi and Seyia together only because they have similar immaturity levels and seem to have some chemistry. I DO NOT think that they are soul mates or anything serious.

The ideal thing in my head would be that Usagi and Seyia could have a high school fling. Once Usagi grows up a bit more, i feel that she could then have the beautiful destined romance that she and Mamoru were meant to have

EDIT: Anyone else feel like this debate is a wee bit too heated?


I think I would've been ok with Seiya just being a one-time thing because really most people don't marry their first loves, at least not right off the bat. A lot of times people leave go date around a little and then come back to that first love when they're better able to deal with it. I can see that with this dynamic actually of Usagi and Mamoru taking a break, dating other people and then getting back together.

And I agree about Seiya/Usagi not lasting as I always thought of them as something of a firework- brilliant for that moment but over in a flash. There's nothing really to sustain that relationship and passion is not everything. ( as in that 80%-20% idea. Where you leave the 80 because the 20 looks so good but really you kinda missed out on the rest of it. I see Seiya mostly as a 20% because one season of him and Usagi doesn't match the four before it in terms of how to keep it going. He seems more of the type to go off the handle too, so who would be the one to ground him if Usagi does the exact same thing?)

Edit: Yeah, it is. Not just you.
Back to top Go down
Sailor Cocoa
Inner Senshi Admin
Media Director


Inner Senshi AdminMedia Director

Title : AKA Haine~ the official hardcore UsaxMamo fan
Posts : 3254
Join date : 2012-09-24
Age : 29
Location : The Echanted forest looking for my unicorn pet


PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   14th April 2013, 11:39 am

Guys, maybe it's me, but i feel a little bit of tension on this thread :/
remember to stay on topic =)

___________________________


 
Back to top Go down
http://queenmaruhi.tumblr.com/ http://eternalwitch.deviantart.com/
Moonlight Lady
Star Seed


Star Seed

Posts : 664
Join date : 2012-07-15
Location : Poland


PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   14th April 2013, 11:41 am

As for Mamoru's supposed indifference to Usagi - he's reserved and introverted, and also in accordance with societal norms - but there are still plenty loving moments between them. In fact, many more than in manga, which is more focused on battles and in anime they are shown more of their daily interactions.

I don't see how he cares more about Chibiusa than Usagi - he reacts the same on them both when they bicker. The only time he intervenes is when he stops Usagi from hitting Chibiusa. I don't see also him spoiling Chibiusa - he will be great father - attentive, supportive and protective, but I have yet to see him spoiling her.

You also seem to exaggerate Usagi's immaturity - yes, she is still teenager, but she can tell the difference between crush and true love, after so many trials. Because ttheir experiences in R were trials, which proved they are real thing.

Seiya's crush can't compare, especially as it's based on Usagi's reminding his proncess.

___________________________

Avatar made by Sailor Jupiter - I thank you cordially.

Back to top Go down
http://neoma2.tumblr.com/
Moonlight Lady
Star Seed


Star Seed

Posts : 664
Join date : 2012-07-15
Location : Poland


PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   14th April 2013, 12:13 pm

Saturn Skyy wrote:
@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Mamoru is indifferent to Rei and she starts realising it.

But Mamoru seems to become indifferent to Usagi pretty quickly.

She showers him in attention at all times and he shows basically none. I understand that everyone has different relationship styles, but they are at such opposite ends of the spectrum. FOr a happy relationship, you need to have similar wants and expectations. Usagi was constant adoring attention whereas Mamoru wants a laid back relationship and seems to almost ignore and avoid Usagi. They still have romantic moments, but the overall relationship seems to be characterized by mismatched expectations for each other.

I really don't see how Mamoru ignores and avoids Usagi - he sometimes is busy, because it's life, he studies and works, but he still spends plenty of time with Usagi. He also gives her attention and support. Usagi's maturing involved learning that true relationship doesn't equal constant adoring. And she basically is happy the way their relationship developed.

___________________________

Avatar made by Sailor Jupiter - I thank you cordially.

Back to top Go down
http://neoma2.tumblr.com/
Moonlight Lady
Star Seed


Star Seed

Posts : 664
Join date : 2012-07-15
Location : Poland


PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   14th April 2013, 12:32 pm

Saturn Skyy wrote:
@Ktenshi wrote:
The Anime plays up Usagi's childishness to the tenth degree where as, at the same age and such, she would have been more mature at this point.

We are only debating the anime relationship. In every other version, Usagi is more mature and nobody is arguing that their relationship is troubled in any other version.

Part of the issue that some of us have brought up is Usagi's immaturity. I know part of the reason that I think they are incompatible at this point in their lives is her childishness. That is not to say that they are doomed forever.

Also, for something to argue about, Usagi makes it very clear that she is unhappy with how Chibiusa gets much more attention than she does. However, she does not address it directly and when it does come up, Mamoru shrugs it off. WHile fighting all the time is not always a good thing, they should be able to address conflicts and work through them - which often come out in fighting. In healthier relationship Usagi would be able to bring up her concern and Mamoru would acknowledge it. Instead, this issue continues on for a long time and Usagi is left unhappy with the dynamic that is currently going on.

Mamoru cannot acknowledge Usagi concern, because it's not true that Chibiusa gets more attention than she does and convincing her about this would be treating her like a child. Usagi had to understand that their family consists of three people and they all love each other and it doesn't make their love weaker.

___________________________

Avatar made by Sailor Jupiter - I thank you cordially.

Back to top Go down
http://neoma2.tumblr.com/
Moonlight Lady
Star Seed


Star Seed

Posts : 664
Join date : 2012-07-15
Location : Poland


PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   14th April 2013, 12:35 pm

Saturn Skyy wrote:

The ideal thing in my head would be that Usagi and Seyia could have a high school fling. Once Usagi grows up a bit more, i feel that she could then have the beautiful destined romance that she and Mamoru were meant to have


But what would Usagi gain with dating somebody else than her true love?

___________________________

Avatar made by Sailor Jupiter - I thank you cordially.

Back to top Go down
http://neoma2.tumblr.com/
Guest
Guest




PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   14th April 2013, 12:44 pm

I'm sorry, but in this debate anime Mamoru is a tool, and I agree with everything Nerf says. This is also how I truly feel about their relationship.

When it comes to who I would choose based off the anime, I would say Seiya a million times over. In the anime he seems to be a guy the entire time until his sailor scout transformation. Only being a female on his own planet permanently which, if he had stayed on earth, would not be an issue in the relationship.

Rini is TOTALLY spoiled by Darien in the anime. Oh my goodness!

Her family should not consist of three people until she get's pregnant with Rini. Rini should have stayed in the future after the Crystal Tokyo incident. I think their future selves wanted a babysitter so then they could have the time to date they didn't have in the past. Yikes.
Back to top Go down
Adelaide
Lotus Crystal


Lotus Crystal

Title : Unashamed Sailor Moon Crystal lover // Formerly Saturn Skyy - until I found out that it was the name of a car
Posts : 1044
Join date : 2013-03-07
Age : 25
Location : Arendele


PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   14th April 2013, 12:58 pm

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Saturn Skyy wrote:

The ideal thing in my head would be that Usagi and Seyia could have a high school fling. Once Usagi grows up a bit more, i feel that she could then have the beautiful destined romance that she and Mamoru were meant to have


But what would Usagi gain with dating somebody else than her true love?

First of all, it is normal for someone her age to date people that she is not going to marry. Usagi is not yet ready for an adult relationship (shown by her clinginess and jealousy). Teenagers have stupid flings and short term relationships.

Also, with each relationship, people tend to learn more about who they are, their values, and what they want in a relationship. Break-ups tell us what we don't want and how to create a better relationship. We all make mistakes in relationships, and it would almost be healthier to screw up with a guy that (in the long run) doesn't really matter.

Also, flings are fun

___________________________



Siggies by: Lust, Mi Mako Chan, Brandi, NQS, Uranus, Sailor Candy, Mary, SailorKittyEleon and me! (Hopefully I didn't forget one!)
GC's Official Setsuna 
Back to top Go down
http://dianathemoonfairy.tumblr.com
Adelaide
Lotus Crystal


Lotus Crystal

Title : Unashamed Sailor Moon Crystal lover // Formerly Saturn Skyy - until I found out that it was the name of a car
Posts : 1044
Join date : 2013-03-07
Age : 25
Location : Arendele


PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   14th April 2013, 1:01 pm

@Moonlight Lady wrote:

Mamoru cannot acknowledge Usagi concern, because it's not true that Chibiusa gets more attention than she does and convincing her about this would be treating her like a child. Usagi had to understand that their family consists of three people and they all love each other and it doesn't make their love weaker.

Just because it is not true, does not mean that it doesn't feel hurtful to Usagi. If I had an issue in my realtionship (regardless of if it was in my head) and I was told "Youjust need to grow up and learn that you are making things up." That would not be helpful.

They should either talk about and work through the feelings or take a break until she has the maturity to know that he is not being unfair.

___________________________



Siggies by: Lust, Mi Mako Chan, Brandi, NQS, Uranus, Sailor Candy, Mary, SailorKittyEleon and me! (Hopefully I didn't forget one!)
GC's Official Setsuna 
Back to top Go down
http://dianathemoonfairy.tumblr.com
Ktenshi
Pyramidal Crystal


Pyramidal Crystal

Title : M.I.A
Posts : 701
Join date : 2012-11-10
Age : 30

PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   14th April 2013, 1:07 pm

natashasurgirl wrote:
I'm sorry, but in this debate anime Mamoru is a tool, and I agree with everything Nerf says. This is also how I truly feel about their relationship.

When it comes to who I would choose based off the anime, I would say Seiya a million times over. In the anime he seems to be a guy the entire time until his sailor scout transformation. Only being a female on his own planet permanently which, if he had stayed on earth, would not be an issue in the relationship.

Rini is TOTALLY spoiled by Darien in the anime. Oh my goodness!

Her family should not consist of three people until she get's pregnant with Rini. Rini should have stayed in the future after the Crystal Tokyo incident. I think their future selves wanted a babysitter so then they could have the time to date they didn't have in the future. Yikes.

Whoa, calm down there.

If anyone spoils Chibiusa- it's EVERYONE. She's A: The Youngest. This girl can't be any older then seven or six when she first appears and she's no older in appearance than nine or ten when she comes back. B: That's his kid. So yes, he's going to spoil the girl because she is a child and he's probably trying to give her what he never had growing up at all. Everyone treats people who are very much younger than they are with kid gloves.

Usagi's family is more than just "Her/Mamoru/ Chibiusa" It's Them PLUS her normal Family. If anything, Usagi was spoiled from the get go and this is just making her mature more because she realizes it's not all about her and she's not going to be babied like her own family did.

Literally, Chibiusa went home at the end of Nehellenia arc (Same time she did in the Manga).

The point is- not everyone would choose Seiya and the fact is Usagi obviously didn't choose Seiya and recognizes Seiya as a friend.

I happen to agree with Usagi in the choice of person would be Mamoru. He's more dependable, more steady and quite honestly he would be able to provide a better life for her than Seiya would. Not to mention- 4seasons vs 1. nearly 2yrs vs a few months.
After all the battles they've gone through, after basically dying for each other- Usagi and Mamoru have proven their devotion to each other.

And Lastly, no need to call Mamoru by such things, because really that weakens the argument.


Back to top Go down
Sailor Cocoa
Inner Senshi Admin
Media Director


Inner Senshi AdminMedia Director

Title : AKA Haine~ the official hardcore UsaxMamo fan
Posts : 3254
Join date : 2012-09-24
Age : 29
Location : The Echanted forest looking for my unicorn pet


PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   14th April 2013, 1:10 pm

Guys, this is a warning, you're taking this way to personal, try to calm down. you're getting out of topic.

___________________________


 
Back to top Go down
http://queenmaruhi.tumblr.com/ http://eternalwitch.deviantart.com/
Guest
Guest




PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   14th April 2013, 1:21 pm

Quote :
Whoa, calm down there.

If anyone spoils Chibiusa- it's EVERYONE. She's A: The Youngest. This girl can't be any older then seven or six when she first appears and she's no older in appearance than nine or ten when she comes back. B: That's his kid. So yes, he's going to spoil the girl because she is a child and he's probably trying to give her what he never had growing up at all. Everyone treats people who are very much younger than they are with kid gloves.

Usagi's family is more than just "Her/Mamoru/ Chibiusa" It's Them PLUS her normal Family. If anything, Usagi was spoiled from the get go and this is just making her mature more because she realizes it's not all about her and she's not going to be babied like her own family did.

Literally, Chibiusa went home at the end of Nehellenia arc (Same time she did in the Manga).

The point is- not everyone would choose Seiya and the fact is Usagi obviously didn't choose Seiya and recognizes Seiya as a friend.

I happen to agree with Usagi in the choice of person would be Mamoru. He's more dependable, more steady and quite honestly he would be able to provide a better life for her than Seiya would. Not to mention- 4seasons vs 1. nearly 2yrs vs a few months.
After all the battles they've gone through, after basically dying for each other- Usagi and Mamoru have proven their devotion to each other.

And Lastly, no need to call Mamoru by such things, because really that weakens the argument.



Actually I am quite calm. Just being honest.

Again, when it comes to the Mamoru/ChibiUsa/Usagi family, which is what I was pointing out, it is ridiculous for a fourteen year old girl to have to grasp the concept that a child who she hasn't even conceived yet has every right to steal the time she needed to get to know her future husband. Being forced to spend time with a child who treats you horribly, and to watch that same child be adored more than you by your partner seems unrealistic, and unreasonable. Darien should have made more of a point to spend personal time with Serena, because first and foremost, if that kid was ever going to be born, their relationship mattered first. However, he never really seemed to enjoy his time with her all that much anyways. Unlike in the manga.

And yes Rini went back after the fight with Nehelenia, however, she stayed for everything before that after the R season. That's a long time to tolerate a child which technically isn't even yours yet when you aren't even 15.

And so what if Serena was spoiled by her own family? She was a child. Rini should have been spoiled by her family in her own time. She should not have stayed in the past after the issues were resolved.

If we were talking about Darien from the manga, obviously I would agree with her choice again and again. Quite frankly I would never imagine her with anyone but Darien. If I made the choice though, it would be Seiya from the anime though.

I agree Serena has proven her love for Darien time and time again. Darien clearly has not shown this as clearly, hence the debate being created.

It is what it is. He treated Serena badly, and acted like a jerk. He may be my favorite character, but I'm not going to call him anything he is not.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   14th April 2013, 1:22 pm

Sorry Haine, I'll just ditch this debate. It does seem to be becoming personal isn't it?
Back to top Go down
Ktenshi
Pyramidal Crystal


Pyramidal Crystal

Title : M.I.A
Posts : 701
Join date : 2012-11-10
Age : 30

PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   14th April 2013, 1:28 pm

For someone who had to tolerate their future child and be so resentful, Usagi seems willing to do anything for her and doesn't seem to mind taking care of her either. Not to mention, it's not just her caring for Chibiusa but also her own family and the girls and Mamoru. It's like a group effort.

We don't know a lot because we're not given more scenes with Mamoru and Usagi having these conversations we wished they'd have. It's more likely that all these problems can be solved with one meta excuse:

Written and produced largely by males at that time period.
A director that wasn't entirely fond of the main male lead.

Vs

Written and produced by female writer.
Fond of the male lead as he is her ideal.

also- Time production and money to fund the projects and seasons plus written works.
Back to top Go down
Sailor Cocoa
Inner Senshi Admin
Media Director


Inner Senshi AdminMedia Director

Title : AKA Haine~ the official hardcore UsaxMamo fan
Posts : 3254
Join date : 2012-09-24
Age : 29
Location : The Echanted forest looking for my unicorn pet


PostSubject: Re: Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?   14th April 2013, 1:28 pm

If you guys keep with this, this will turn into bigger shipping war :/
we're debating, even if you do not agree with someones opinion
try not to make it personal, because it looks like you're attacking each other.

Again, please guys, try to stay on topic and not making it personal =)

___________________________


 
Back to top Go down
http://queenmaruhi.tumblr.com/ http://eternalwitch.deviantart.com/
 

Debate: Anime Mamoru or Seiya?

View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 11 of 13Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12, 13  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
The Galaxy Cauldron :: General Sailor Moon Discussions :: Theories, Debates and Headcanons-