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 Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?

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PostSubject: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Mon 23 Jul - 15:16

This is a question that originated in different thread, where is was off-topic, so this discussion could be brought here. Could the the main theme of Sailor Moon be female enpowerment?

IMO, it is true about manga story, whereas the anime story more important theme is love and purity of heart.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Mon 23 Jul - 15:18

Although this won't answer the question directly, but I do want to point out that a piece of work can have more than one theme.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Mon 23 Jul - 15:33

Yes, ITA - is more a question, what is priority.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Mon 23 Jul - 22:03

I would say that the main theme of both the anime and the manga is female empowerment but the anime portrays it from a male perspective and the manga is from a female perspective.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Mon 23 Jul - 23:27

Well it was probably the first show ever to make me feel like I wasn't just a girl who's destiny was to grow as a woman that would be someone only because there was a man behind.

Most Princess stories we've heard or seen in our childhood pictured girls as lucky if they were with a powerful man such as a rich Prince for example. Think about Cinderella who was nothing before the Prince decides to marry her for example. Everyone knows this is not the reality. Or not pretty often anyway.

I don't think SM meant to really be about female empowerment but mostly to equilibrate male and female and remind everyone how our generations are very much different than our grandparents' Wink Woman are able to make their lives wheither they have a man or not in their lives and are able of being ''The man of the house! ''. XD The one taking the important decisions sometimes.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Mon 23 Jul - 23:43

I wouldn't say it is mostly about female empowerment. I believe it is more about love and friendship and breaking loneliness. Primarily I believe Sailor Moon is about various kinds of love and the relationships between people rather than "yay girls!".

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Tue 24 Jul - 1:00

While I love the girl power theme of Sailor Moon, this line from the dub still makes me cringe. "There's a whole lot of girl power staring at you right now!" "It's not nice to stare!"
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Tue 24 Jul - 1:02

I believe "girl power" was a strong element of the Jadeite-arc of the animate. but this is probably because Jadeite was incredibly sexist XD

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Tue 24 Jul - 1:39

As the Spice Girls would say; Girl Power!

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Tue 24 Jul - 15:30

I would say that Sailor Moon isn't so much about female empowerment as it is about a group of very powerful females.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Tue 24 Jul - 15:34

@Neon Genesis wrote:
I would say that the main theme of both the anime and the manga is female empowerment but the anime portrays it from a male perspective and the manga is from a female perspective.


And how are these perspectives different and how does it show in manga and anime?

@JoJiaMystie wrote:
Woman are able to make their lives whether they have a man or not in their lives and are able of being ''The man of the house! ''


But in anime all Inners want to have men in their lives. Even Ami said to Shingo in her dream episode that she may give up her career if the right guy comes along… And the main heroine’s dream is to be a wife.

@Neon Genesis wrote:
While I love the girl power theme of Sailor Moon, this line from the dub still makes me cringe. "There's a whole lot of girl power staring at you right now!" "It's not nice to stare!"

When it was?

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Tue 24 Jul - 16:46

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
@JoJiaMystie wrote:
Woman are able to make their lives whether they have a man or not in their lives and are able of being ''The man of the house! ''


But in anime all Inners want to have men in their lives. Even Ami said to Shingo in her dream episode that she may give up her career if the right guy comes along… And the main heroine’s dream is to be a wife.

I think that the point that they were making is that girls don't need men to solve any of their problems and help them in the stereotypical super-powered anime way. Sure, they like the idea of having boyfriends and finding love, but it's clear that they don't need it, while in other shows it's hinted that a girl is incomplete without a male counterpart.

And I think that's also a good message for girls - You don't NEED a boyfriend to be happy! You don't need a guy to feel complete! Girls don't need guys to give them purpose. And that goes actually for any significant other for either gender. Don't invest who-you-are with who-you're-with. It's kind of a power-of-self lesson for girls and boys.


As far as it being about 'female empowerment', I don't know. Lol, I never really looked into it because when I first watched the show I was 5 and didn't know that girls weren't supposed to be as awesome as boys. Lol, Kinda like I didn't know until college that girls didn't usually get into Physics, despite both Ami and Setsuna enjoying the subject as must as Mamoru did.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Wed 25 Jul - 3:42

I think female empowerment is a theme of the show, but not necessarily the main theme. It's more like a collection of themes in one; an umbrella term.

Quote :
Definition for female empowerment:
Web definitions:
The individual belief or group movement in support of female equality, independence, success, strength, and enlightenment. (See Feminism).
karen-keller.com/glossary/

I would definitely say Sailor Moon contains all of this, so I would say 'female empowerment' is an umbrella term for a few of the themes present in the series.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Wed 25 Jul - 4:18

I still reckon that female empowerment, while an important aspect of the series is not as important as the ideas of "love and friendship". I mean at the end of the series. Everyone died except Usagi and only through love and friendship were they able to all be together again. It also stands for all versions of the series.

Essentially the story is about loners who come together as friends. I mean we can't deny, all nine of them, barring Usagi (and possibly Haruka, though it seems Haruka didn't like getting too close to people) were outcast in someway or another and joined together to find a happier life together.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Wed 25 Jul - 12:23

Love and friendship is an important theme, but I feel like female empowerment is included too, even as a subtle theme. I think the series contains many themes, though love and friendship is definitely a dominant theme.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Wed 25 Jul - 15:41

Lady Tuxedo, precising definition was a great idea! I would agree with many aspects mentioned, but isn't independence contrary to power of friendship?

Sailor Uranus wrote:

And I think that's also a good message for girls - You don't NEED a boyfriend to be happy! You don't need a guy to feel complete! Girls don't need guys to give them purpose. And that goes actually for any significant other for either gender. Don't invest who-you-are with who-you're-with. It's kind of a power-of-self lesson for girls and boys.

Well, IMO, if Usagi and Mamoru's relationship shall have a lesson, I rather can't see, how it could be that gorls don't need men, as he seems to be clearly her purpose in life...
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Wed 25 Jul - 15:59

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Lady Tuxedo, precising definition was a great idea! I would agree with many aspects mentioned, but isn't independence contrary to power of friendship?

No. Humans need friends/companions to thrive and be successful. You can be independent and have friends. Smile very rarely do humans actually like being genuinely alone (like solitude) or even thrive alone. I actually think that's quite impossible....



@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Well, IMO, if Usagi and Mamoru's relationship shall have a lesson, I rather can't see, how it could be that gorls don't need men, as he seems to be clearly her purpose in life...

I wouldn't say he is her purpose, like in that context. Look at Usagi and Mamoru like this: they are soul mates. That is made clear just by the fact that their love transcends lifetimes. When you have found your soul mate, it feels basically impossible to live without them because they complete you. They fill the big void in your heart (even if you didn't know it existed), balance you out, complete you, etc. Two halves of a whole. When you lose that soul mate, well, basically a big part of you goes along with them. They need each other for support and to thrive. So I think Usagi and Mamoru is a separate case and a separate 'lesson' if you will, and that would be: love conquers all. Love finds a way. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Wed 25 Jul - 16:19

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Lady Tuxedo, precising definition was a great idea! I would agree with many aspects mentioned, but isn't independence contrary to power of friendship?

Sailor Uranus wrote:

And I think that's also a good message for girls - You don't NEED a boyfriend to be happy! You don't need a guy to feel complete! Girls don't need guys to give them purpose. And that goes actually for any significant other for either gender. Don't invest who-you-are with who-you're-with. It's kind of a power-of-self lesson for girls and boys.

Well, IMO, if Usagi and Mamoru's relationship shall have a lesson, I rather can't see, how it could be that gorls don't need men, as he seems to be clearly her purpose in life...

I don't necessarily think that independence is contrary to friendship - I think that it is necessary to become really good friends, just as it is necessary to form strong romantic relationships. Codependency (or being unable to function without another person) often wears the stronger person down (unless they enjoy feeling needed) and can put a strain on friendships, where as independence helps a relationship thrive as the individuals are not pressured by each other in order to feel liked or accepted; they hang out to have fun, rather than to feel accepted, worthy, etc.

As to Usagi and Mamoru... Her goal in life is to protect the planet.

It just so happens that his is, too. They share the same dream, function as equals, and just happen to think that the other is sexy as hell and easy to get along with.

In fact, in one of her dreams she dreamed that Mamoru as a child said that his only dream was to marry her, and it startled her enough to make her wake up.

... and then we get to the whole soul mate business:
soul mate biz:
 

So that she dreams of marrying him could unromantically tie in to the crystals wanting to join together to better protect the planet (which would be the most unromantic life purpose ever) and it just happens to be the cutest most amazing love story ever told (which then makes it adorable).

Bottom line, imo, Usagi's dream is to protect the planet; Mamoru happening to have the same dream and a whomping sailor crystal to back it up is just icing on the cake.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Wed 25 Jul - 17:13

So um...yeah....Kyralih wins. Hooray! Cheers

I tots gave you foundation though to build this in depth dealie on. >.> XD

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Thu 26 Jul - 1:36

Oh Kyra totally wins because everything is all totally right. Yerp.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Thu 26 Jul - 4:02


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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Thu 26 Jul - 15:33

I should have precised that I meant their relationship in anime. In SuperS it's a few times stated and once accompanied by a nice vision of Usagi in apron serving Mamoru dinner...

Not to mention her psychical condition in Stars, where she is on the verge of breakdown during his absence.

I would like to say that I don't mean that as criticism of Usagi or their relationship - only IMO such portrayal of main heroine clashes strongly with female empowerment.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Thu 26 Jul - 16:24

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
I should have precised that I meant their relationship in anime. In SuperS it's a few times stated and once accompanied by a nice vision of Usagi in apron serving Mamoru dinner...

Sometimes people, man or woman, likes doing nice things for their other half. You want to do something nice and sweet like cook for them to make them happy and feel appreciated, loved, and cared for. Also, Usagi can't cook to save her life soooooo.... XDD I remember seeing a clip from one of the Myus with King Endymion wearing an apron and Chibiusa was asking I believe why her mother wasn't the one cooking and he was like "Do you want to die?" XDD

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Not to mention her psychical condition in Stars, where she is on the verge of breakdown during his absence.

Soul. Mates. ^^ There are people in your life that you really just cannot live without. I personally know that there are people in my life that if they weren't around for an extended period of time like that, it'd be rather difficult for me as well. Especially if they don't write or call and you have no idea at all if they're okay or anything. Mamoru was killed at the very beginning of Stars and Usagi had no idea. She was going insane without him being there for her (her other half was missing and she had a great void) and with not knowing if he was alright.

Plus, try going a year or longer without someone who is constantly around you and a big part of your life. In fact, they're in another country. I can only imagine how that feels. Poor Usagi

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
I would like to say that I don't mean that as criticism of Usagi or their relationship - only IMO such portrayal of main heroine clashes strongly with female empowerment.

Everybody is different. But I'm sure two people who truly love each other feels and does all these things. They want to do nice, sweet things for their other half. Being without them for so long would be a serious struggle, even if you had your friends and family. Mamoru his Usagi's rock and she is his. And then she had to fight a new enemy without him, new senshi/characters show up and one totally falls for her and she feels something strong in return... This all just sounds so difficult. I applaud her for being able to keep it together for as long as she could and to still keep going even after opening up about it to Rei.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Thu 26 Jul - 23:15

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
I should have precised that I meant their relationship in anime. In SuperS it's a few times stated and once accompanied by a nice vision of Usagi in apron serving Mamoru dinner...

Not to mention her psychical condition in Stars, where she is on the verge of breakdown during his absence.

I would like to say that I don't mean that as criticism of Usagi or their relationship - only IMO such portrayal of main heroine clashes strongly with female empowerment.

Also hav eyou not read the Stars manga? Because basically she ends up being COMPLETELY alone. Like EVERYONE is dead. Starlights...her Senshi, etc. And she basically i slike "I BELIEVE IN EVERYONE" and this is after realizing that Mamoru is gone too. She actually watched him die right before her eyes and yeah.

I don't want to say much cause i'm not sure if you read that much of the manga or not.

Anime might not always have the best portrayal of female empowerment, but the manga does it in full force.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Fri 27 Jul - 18:24

Yes, Small Lady, ITA with the last statement.

I believe that anime-Usagi with each season actually less concentrates on her power and more on values like love, faith and forgiveness. The example may be, how the power of Silver Cristal becomes neglected and how final victories are gained without her using power. Stars seems to be the main example…

IMO, anime creators intended to convey the message of good defeating evil with love and on the way lost the message of female power.



Lady Tuxedo – I’m not saying that Usagi’s dream of cooking for Mamoru is wrong in any way – I find it sweet. Still, it is kinda unexpectable in badass heroine… And Usagi in R made tasty meal so she is capable of improvement of her cooking skills.

As for Usagi in Stars – true that it was very hard for her and I really feel for her. However, anime already did the storyline with one partner leaving (twice) – with Reika and Motoki – with her going away and his waiting presented as right choice. We see in R and S Motoki during her absence and he does not seem depressed.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Fri 27 Jul - 18:59

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
I believe that anime-Usagi with each season actually less concentrates on her power and more on values like love, faith and forgiveness. The example may be, how the power of Silver Cristal becomes neglected and how final victories are gained without her using power. Stars seems to be the main example…

Yes, this may be true, but it's one of many themes. Sailor Moon doesn't have only one theme. I still see female empowerment in there as one of the many themes.

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
IMO, anime creators intended to convey the message of good defeating evil with love and on the way lost the message of female power.

I disagree, but of course this is your opinion <3


@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Lady Tuxedo – I’m not saying that Usagi’s dream of cooking for Mamoru is wrong in any way – I find it sweet. Still, it is kinda unexpectable in badass heroine… And Usagi in R made tasty meal so she is capable of improvement of her cooking skills.

XD maybe! And I wouldn't say it's unexpected. It shows how she's actually human rather than a goddess like some kind of look at her as. Since she's human, she wants to do kind and loving things for people she cares about, especially for Mamoru. You can still be a badass and do something thoughtful/loving/sweet.

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
As for Usagi in Stars – true that it was very hard for her and I really feel for her. However, anime already did the storyline with one partner leaving (twice) – with Reika and Motoki – with her going away and his waiting presented as right choice. We see in R and S Motoki during her absence and he does not seem depressed.

Different people, different relationship. It all depends on the people and the relationship. It can be easy for some, it can be hard for some (especially soul mates). It just depends. Also remember, people do cover things up when they don't want the rest of the world to know. I'm pretty sure in Stars everyone thought Usagi was alright. It wasn't until later that she began falling apart. But after she kinda did, or at least made it known, she still did her best to hold it together. Motoki may not have appeared depressed, but he also wasn't really an explored character. Like you don't know how he acted and felt on his own away from people (esp. on a regular basis).

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Sat 28 Jul - 8:58

It's true that we don't know, how Motoki really feels, but in SuperS he encourages Reika to go abroad again - whereas at the end of Stars Mamoru seems to not go anywhere...It's interesting that gender-reversed scenario is presented with different implications.

It may be my opinion, but message of female empowerment (though in earlier in some episodes it may be shown) seems to be undermined by the ending of Stars, which is de facto ending to the whole series. And it's realisation of Usagi that she will not fight.

The final of manga is more about how strong is Usagi, whether of anime - how good she is.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Sat 28 Jul - 13:50

XD you really do like this topic, huh? I'm kind of out of things to say. My opinion is still in tact, yours is still in tact ^^

First, just remember that I highly doubt those two were soul mates, or at least, not at all the same as Usagi and Mamoru. Those two relationships are different. Second, well you don't know what happens beyond Usagi and Mamoru talking and kissing under that full moon. Maybe Mamoru did actually go back to America to study, actually got there, kept in touch with Usagi, and everything was fine. Or, maybe he just decided not to and decided to continue his studies in Japan. We don't know what happened.

And yes, that is more your opinion. Just because one theme or multiple themes were not present at the end of the show doesn't mean they weren't present throughout the series Razz

And again, yes, you said it; manga and anime. Different endings. Just like there are multiple themes and portrayals of the series.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Sat 28 Jul - 16:49

Yes, we don't know what happened for sure - which is for me the weak point of the ending.

As for theme of female empowerment, IMo the bad girls should not be forgotten in our discussion.

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Title : The Hybrid Enigma
Posts : 1463
Join date : 2013-01-08
Location : A far away land, where mystery and adventure are rich and bountiful, and where dreams are not wished, but granted <3


PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?   Thu 11 Apr - 23:18

Most definitely. Naoko was quoted at a comic-con saying her ideal man is the kind of man she can't depend on forcing her to reply on herself and that was the basis of Mamoru's character. He is Naoko's personal opinion of what she wants her ideal man to be^^
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Debate: Is Sailor Moon mostly about female empowerment?

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