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 [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?

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PostSubject: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 12:31 am

I don't think Neo Queen Serenity would have intentionally used her powers for injustice, but whether it was intentional or not, was her kingdom of Crystal Tokyo really a justified rule?  I don't see why Neo Queen Serenity deserved to become the ruler of the entire Earth for as long she did just because she saved it.  Serenity may not have been as cruel as Queen Beryl would have been, but she essentially took on the same purpose of using the Silver Crystal's power for world domination.  Just because she was nice doesn't change that Neo Queen Serenity was essentially a dictator.  So is it any wonder that some people would have hated being under Serenity's rule and wanted to rule themselves?  Could the Black Moon had intentionally been fighting agianst Serenity's monarchy to establish a democracy but their good intentions were hijacked by Wiseman for his own twisted purpose?  Should Neo Queen Serenity have given up her rule after defeating Wiseman if she really wanted to establish true peace and replace her kingdom with a democracy?  I hope it's ok to talk about this as long as we don't talk about real world politics here.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 5:35 am

Monarchy and democracy are not mutually exclusive. And we didn't get closer look on politics, but I can't see her as dictator.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 9:06 am

I don't think Neo Queen Serenity would abuse her power but I think some people in the future would be against the very idea of someone holding absolute control over the whole planet for that long just for the principle of the thing. There does seem to be some hint of this in the series when Saphir tried to convince Demando that what Wiseman was plotting to do with the Earth wasn't their original objective and they were just being used by Wiseman.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 9:18 am

We know for fact that throughout history that people like to govern themselves. I think Latin American is a great example for this. In the countries throughout South America they have gone through many different types of governments. A lot of the governments had good intentions, but some of them turned out to be corrupt. Kind of like the Dark Moon Clan.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 9:46 am

There could also be others things about Neo-Queen Serenity's rule that irk some. Don't people in Crystal Tokyo have longer life spans? That could be seen as unnatural. I mean, that kinda borderlines the power of a god(s).

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 9:52 am

Also I feel like her rule would destroy cultures and traditions. The same goes for languages.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 9:56 am

Well, her rule might do something along those lines, but I don't think the manga ever implied that she encouraged/forced the world to adopt the cultures and customs of Japan. In fact, the manga never really discussed the rest of the world, just Crystal Tokyo. Even then, we hardly got the chance to view what everyday life was in Crystal Tokyo.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 10:04 am

I don't think NQS would force the customs of Japan on people, but I feel like cultures would still be destroy. Countries around the world would be gone so celebrations for a specific country would be gone. Like 4th of July here in America or Thanksgiving Day. As for languages I think she would force people to learn Japanese. How would she communicate unless she took the time to learn ever language.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 10:09 am

She isn't the only membee of her government, though. The head ruler of any government doesn't know the language of every country he deals with, but soneone else employed in that country does. That's why you have ambassadors and translators and specialists.

Speaking of which, what required or justifiedI a supreme ruler of the world, anyway? There is no precedent for a ruler of the world. What happened that the rest of the world agreed with this? The question of who is to be the ruler of a territory, like the United States, is a big enough of an argument. I doubt everyone and everything would be hunky dory in Crystal Tokyo. A job of that magnitude seems unrealistic.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 10:25 am

Maybe the Silver Crystal made it so everyone speaks the same language.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 10:29 am

I hope not. That would be a sad state of affairs for anthropologists everywhere. -.-

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 12:58 pm

How about the fact that she's married to Endymion, and he is the Prince/King of Earth like she was the Moon Princess? o_o she's queen by marriage mostly, otherwise she'd be ruling the moon, don't you think? So take Endymion out of the equation and she's probably not the queen of Earth. They ascended the throne together, after they got married.

But wait, does that mean she abandoned the moon or does she rule both? :O


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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 1:04 pm

I believe she gave up ruling the moon in the first arc of the manga. At the end they could have rebuild the moon the kingdom, but they wanted to stay on earth.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 1:04 pm

There's actually a fanfic that explores similar ideas that you're asking by Dejana Talis
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2803625/1/The_Undeserving

And I think you have a very valid argument. Besides having a pure heart and a source of power, NQS doesn't really have any qualifications to rule the entire world. A person having their heart being in the right place doesn't make them fit to govern a country much less hundreds of countries. One world power having complete domination over all other countries sounds like colonization.

I don't really think of the entire world when I think of the 30th century though ;P I just think of Crystal Tokyo.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 1:07 pm

It would make more sense for her control just Japan than the entire world.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 1:17 pm

Like I said, I pretty much look at her being queen of Earth due to the fact that she is married to Endymion. She is therefore queen by marriage. She didn't just seize the Earth, thinking she had a right to rule it due to her pure heart and saving it and whatnot o_o she married the ruler of the Earth. Remember Endymion is the Prince/King of Earth. Even as Mamoru, he is still an incarnation of Endymion, so he is still Earth royalty, just like Usagi is still Moon royalty. If he were to marry anyone else, she would be queen of the Earth in place of Usagi.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 1:33 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
Like I said, I pretty much look at her being queen of Earth due to the fact that she is married to Endymion. She is therefore queen by marriage. She didn't just seize the Earth, thinking she had a right to rule it due to her pure heart and saving it and whatnot o_o she married the ruler of the Earth. Remember Endymion is the Prince/King of Earth. Even as Mamoru, he is still an incarnation of Endymion, so he is still Earth royalty, just like Usagi is still Moon royalty. If he were to marry anyone else, she would be queen of the Earth in place of Usagi.

I mean, the same question based around NQS rule in the 30th centry can be directed towards Endymion & his family during the SilMil. Why does one single power rule the entire Earth?

I don't think Serenity just seized the rule of the Earth because she has an obsession with power, and Usa's one of my favorite characters. I think these questions are still worth exploring though, even if it's fiction and I love it to death. Its still rooted in reality and can be reflective of current global events and past conquests.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 1:41 pm

To be honest, I sort of had similar thoughts about this sort of thing the other day: why is it Usagi? What makes her so special? She royalty on a rock, not even a planet. A bunch of planets have satellites orbiting them, but you don't see anything special about them.

But then I realized, I was thinking way too much into this. It's a story. This is how Naoko created the series. She used Selene and Endymion as models for Endymion and Serenity. She used a bunch of other things such as her culture and Greek mythology to create this series. Usagi/Serenity of the Moon is who she picked to be the special character.

You could raise the question about actual royalty living on Earth right now for real o_o what the hell makes them and their family so special that they are indeed royalty? Probably nothing; they just are. To find out the truth, these royals have complex histories in history that have made them royal. You can probably say that then for Endymion and his family, Serenity and her family for the Earth and the Moon, then Minako and Venus, Rei and Mars, Ami and Mercury, Makoto and Jupiter, etc.

They just are. And Naoko made it this way. Because yeah, Usagi is just royalty of Earth's satellite, not an actual planet. She should technically be nothing special because a bunch of planets have satellites. There is nothing special about Io and Jupiter, for example. But, since Endymion and Serenity are based off of a Greek myth and this is how Naoko wanted her series to be, that's just how it is; Usagi is the most special person in the series.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 2:17 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
But then I realized, I was thinking way too much into this. It's a story. This is how Naoko created the series. She used Selene and Endymion as models for Endymion and Serenity. She used a bunch of other things such as her culture and Greek mythology to create this series. Usagi/Serenity of the Moon is who she picked to be the special character.

You could raise the question about actual royalty living on Earth right now for real o_o what the hell makes them and their family so special that they are indeed royalty? Probably nothing; they just are. To find out the truth, these royals have complex histories in history that have made them royal. You can probably say that then for Endymion and his family, Serenity and her family for the Earth and the Moon, then Minako and Venus, Rei and Mars, Ami and Mercury, Makoto and Jupiter, etc.

Right, I mean it's just something to think about, but it doesn't get in the way of my love for Sailor Moon. And I was referencing current royalty, but I didn't want to get too much into politics.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 2:19 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
Like I said, I pretty much look at her being queen of Earth due to the fact that she is married to Endymion. She is therefore queen by marriage. She didn't just seize the Earth, thinking she had a right to rule it due to her pure heart and saving it and whatnot o_o she married the ruler of the Earth. Remember Endymion is the Prince/King of Earth. Even as Mamoru, he is still an incarnation of Endymion, so he is still Earth royalty, just like Usagi is still Moon royalty. If he were to marry anyone else, she would be queen of the Earth in place of Usagi.

But remember that all the Lunarians (people of the moon) were also transported to the Earth also.
Thats why their was so many "bubble" things. So those earth people are also incarnations of the
people of the white moon. So the Crystal could have given them their memories back also. So I think it
would be more reasonable if it was joint ruling of earth.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 2:53 pm

But it is a joint ruling of Earth...? Granted Usagi is obviously the cardinal character, but Endymion is at her side.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 3:13 pm

yes and it is but taking that information in perspective sounds better then just saying "All the Earthlings ect"
The Earthlings follow Endy and the Lunarians follow Serenity.
Them marring merges those two even if they were reincarnated.
In terms of people and EndyxSerenity.

If it was someone else he married I believe half of the world wouldn't
comply if they remembered everything. I know that probably most would but
the others would not.

Get it? or am I wording it wrong.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 5:05 pm

Because it never gives full details I can't really say.... Is she ruling as a strict political body, more as a 'figure', or even are more of a 'religious' type of following? For all we know Crystal Tokyo could be like, I dunno, the Papal State... Where she rules those in Crystal Tokyo but has only minor influence outside of that? Because she saved them people could see her more as a "Queen Goddess" than an actual "Queen".


Then there is what Lady Tuxedo says about current, real Royalty now. They have long linages that link them directly or indirectly to the 'throne'. This knowledge that, Yes they are Royal, is ingrained in most people of that Kingdom and most people don't question it or bother thinking about if its justified or not. Of course some will, especially now a days, but usually not to any extremes.


In my head cannon, I go with my first example of it being more of a 'religious' head, with a 'religious' state (not really religious but its the only thing I can compare to close enough). In that people who were thankfull to Serenity for being saved start to almost... worship her? Because of that a state of her own forms. As for the Serenity/Endymion I feel she would be more in control of things like happiness of the population, spiritualness, general well being, & those who might follower her outside the state; where as Endy would be more in control of the stricter side of the politics & affairs of the state - including how it works with other states.


I dunno if any of you understand what I mean....

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 8:14 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
To be honest, I sort of had similar thoughts about this sort of thing the other day: why is it Usagi? What makes her so special? She royalty on a rock, not even a planet. A bunch of planets have satellites orbiting them, but you don't see anything special about them.

But then I realized, I was thinking way too much into this. It's a story. This is how Naoko created the series. She used Selene and Endymion as models for Endymion and Serenity. She used a bunch of other things such as her culture and Greek mythology to create this series. Usagi/Serenity of the Moon is who she picked to be the special character.



Naoko seems to be doing a modern day fairytale with Crystal Tokyo but I think the best stories are the ones with some moral ambiguity where neither side is 100% good or 100% evil but they all have their own faults and strengths and it's interesting to look at it from the point of view of the bad guys instead of just the point of view of the good guys. Like how Gregory Maguire took the story of The Wizard of Oz and looked at it from the perspective of the Wicked Witch with his Wicked novels. And as I said earlier in the thread, there are some implications that the Black Moon had good intentions and that this isn't as a cut and dry issue as one might think but the series didn't take it far enough.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 8:34 pm

Okay? What's your point? You seem to forget the most important thing that I've been trying to highlight and you are dismissing.

Serenity married Endymion, the Earth ruler. The Earth royalty. That's how she's queen. That's why she's queen. She's not queen by any other means than marriage. It's not wrong that she is queen.

I also don't see what talking about the Black Moon clan does. o_o Yeah, from their perspective, what they thought they were doing was good and technically Serenity shouldn't have had say in those matters. But Serenity isn't a bad person. What does that have to do with her being queen? You're trying to spin this out as Serenity being bad, seizing the Earth, or subtly being a dictator when I don't really think that's the case.

Since Serenity married Endymion, therefore she has right to be queen.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 9:42 pm

But wasn't Princess Serenity's relationship with Prince Endymion forbidden by the gods in the manga and everyone was against the idea of their relationship? So if everybody had their memories of the Silver Millennium restored in the future, I don't know that they would all be approving of their relationship unless getting rid of Queen Metalia would suddenly make them more accepting of it. And speculating about the Black Moon's motivations is just something fun to do, like speculating about if there's a Sailor Sun or whatever.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 9:55 pm

@Neon Genesis wrote:
But wasn't Princess Serenity's relationship with Prince Endymion forbidden by the gods in the manga and everyone was against the idea of their relationship? So if everybody had their memories of the Silver Millennium restored in the future, I don't know that they would all be approving of their relationship unless getting rid of Queen Metalia would suddenly make them more accepting of it. And speculating about the Black Moon's motivations is just something fun to do, like speculating about if there's a Sailor Sun or whatever.

This is also true in PGSM and the Musicals. Serenity's breaking of the laws was in a sense selfish and did incidentally play a crucial role in both the destruction of the Earth and Moon through its traumatic effect on Queen Beryl whose jealousy was manipulated by Metalia. From a non-romantic point of view, Endymion should have married Beryl and ignored Serenity. According to some continuities, Usagi was not given these memories so she wouldn't be disgusted by herself. It is important to remember that Serenity is NOT Usagi. It is only the anime that does not try and make this distinction and it is Destiny that brings the two together. Hence "Moonlight Densetsu".

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 11:10 pm

That just highlights though the fact that Usagi and Serenity are human rather than a goddess like some people make them sound to be. People make mistakes, are selfish, etc., even princesses like Serenity (princesses aren't goddesses, they're princesses. They're flawed too) and people like Usagi. But that doesn't mean it's wrong that she's queen of the Earth. Everyone fights for their love, even if destiny or fate or gods, what have you, seems to "forbid" the relationship. Usagi and Mamoru just happened to actually prevail in their fight to be together.

You're basically saying then she was wrong to marry Mamoru because she was human and fought against destiny.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 11:14 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
That just highlights though the fact that Usagi and Serenity are human rather than a goddess like some people make them sound to be. People make mistakes, are selfish, etc., even princesses like Serenity (princesses aren't goddesses, they're princesses. They're flawed too) and people like Usagi. But that doesn't mean it's wrong that she's queen of the Earth. Everyone fights for their love, even if destiny seems to "forbid" the relationship. Usagi and Mamoru just happened to actually prevail in their fight to be together.

You're basically saying then she was wrong to marry Mamoru because she was human and fought against destiny.

No, I'm not, Usagi didn't fight destiny. Her destiny all along was to end up with Mamoru. And I'm talking from not an idealistic view. From the perspective of maintaining world wide peace and thinking of others, Serenity was selfish in what she did. Again, I didn't say anything about Mamoru. Endymion and Mamoru are not quite the same thing. From the perspective of love and destiny, Serenity did nothing wrong. Its just how you think about it. Destiny was with Usagi all along. Two kingdoms fell and hundreds lost their lives because of their relationship, in that sense, Serenity was selfish. This has nothing to do with Usagi or Mamoru.

I personally think Usagi had every right to the throne, and believe it's not just because of her right, but because of her status and empathy.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   12th August 2012, 11:20 pm

Well then, what does it have to do with Neo Queen Serenity being, well, "wrong" then? o.o XD because she was selfish? It's only dubbed selfish if people make it that way, which the kingdoms obviously did if they fell due to them disapproving of the relationship and causing problems between the kingdoms.

Also a side note I just thought of (probably because I'm a bone head XD): if Usagi is not Serenity and Mamoru isn't exactly Endymion, why do they take on the titles "Neo Queen Serenity" and "King Endymion" if they are different? Is it because they just decided to take on these names when they ascended the throne or...?

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[Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?

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