HomePortalFAQRegisterLog in
Share | 
 

 [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2
AuthorMessage
Houyou no Senshi
Lotus Crystal


Lotus Crystal

Posts : 4565
Join date : 2011-12-13

PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:26 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
Well then, what does it have to do with Neo Queen Serenity being, well, "wrong" then? o.o XD because she was selfish? It's only dubbed selfish if people make it that way, which the kingdoms obviously did if they fell due to them disapproving of the relationship and causing problems between the kingdoms.

Also a side note I just thought of (probably because I'm a bone head XD): if Usagi is not Serenity and Mamoru isn't exactly Endymion, why do they take on the titles "Neo Queen Serenity" and "King Endymion" if they are different? Is it because they just decided to take on these names when they ascended the throne or...?

It was in response to Neon Genesis's question... O.o i dont know why you started rebuttling...

Serenity broke the law... she knew the law and willingly broke it. I don't know why Serenity deserves any defence for that.

Though Usagi and Mamoru are the reincarnations of Serenity and Endymion (this does not make them directly the same person, though they will retain some characteristics), so they are sorta the same but not at the same time and are continuing the rules of the Golden and Moon Kingdoms together. They're taking on the names because they are the new king of the Earth and the new queen of the Moon. So they retain the names.

Also:

The Moon Kingdom after its fall integrated itself onto Earth. So in a sense NQS is still ruling over the people of the Moon, however it has just been combined with the people on the Earth. So if the Earth and Moon have become one, who is better to rule then the true prince and princess?

___________________________


Voluntarily Deactivated Account!
Back to top Go down
Jupiter Rose
Lotus Crystal


Lotus Crystal

Title : Who am I now in this world without her?
Posts : 5947
Join date : 2012-04-03
Age : 24
Location : Once Arizona, now Scotland


PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:34 pm

Oh I guess I just entirely misunderstood then. I'm really sorry ^^;;;;


___________________________

Graphics thanks to NQS, Bubbles, Gemma, Mars, & Diana
Crystal Gem Universe
Back to top Go down
Houyou no Senshi
Lotus Crystal


Lotus Crystal

Posts : 4565
Join date : 2011-12-13

PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:50 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
Oh I guess I just entirely misunderstood then. I'm really sorry ^^;;;;


*hugs/* everything is okay, i think i misunderstood you too.


___________________________


Voluntarily Deactivated Account!
Back to top Go down
Jupiter Rose
Lotus Crystal


Lotus Crystal

Title : Who am I now in this world without her?
Posts : 5947
Join date : 2012-04-03
Age : 24
Location : Once Arizona, now Scotland


PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:52 pm

Yay thank you


___________________________

Graphics thanks to NQS, Bubbles, Gemma, Mars, & Diana
Crystal Gem Universe
Back to top Go down
Brit-chan
Senior Member
Small Lady Emeritus


Senior Member  Small Lady Emeritus

Title : Queen of the Cat Kingdom
Posts : 20313
Join date : 2011-06-24
Age : 29
Location : Lafayette, LA


PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:40 am

As far as the politics go in this, I kinda had a headcannon that the other governments and countries are still their own, but when really big bad problems (like the attack of the Black Moon Clan, etc.) that are out of every countries control, they turn to NQS and the Sailor Soldiers. However it just depends on how NQS really ascended to the throne. Also there is like a whole 1000 years span of time we know nothing about in the SM universe.

You could argue that the Sailor Soldiers deal with almost paranormal entities. Especially during the present times of the series. Most people don't realize that the evil that attacks earth isn't just like "demons" or something. They are usually actual invaders of Earth. I think most people during the present view the attacks as strange paranormal experiences. That is until they realize who Sailor Moon is, what she can really do, and how powerful she is to help uphold peace.

We are left so in the dark in regards to Crystal Tokyo, its really hard to say anything as canon. Also the manga doesn't make it clear exactly what event causes everyone to want to follow Neo Queen Serenity. We are left knowing that she is pregnant with Chibi Usa and that the Crystal Palace is in construction. Does that mean during the whole Galaxia thing that everyone of earth was like "OH GOD SHE'S AN AMAZING GODDESS LETS WORSHIP HER" or something to that extent?

The only thing I kinda like about the anime canon is that they explain that a huge disaster (the Earth was frozen over or something?) is what caused NQS to ascend to the throne due to her saving the lives of the people.

I would image that its very possible that such a huge natural (or maybe it wasn't so natural...) disaster like that would have killed off a large amount of the population. Maybe NQS was the only way people could survive and since lots of people had died the world was in chaos with no structure or governments to follow.


Anyway, I think the anime justifies NQS's rule a bit more than the manga simply due to the fact that the manga lacks in any description.


But i don't see her as being a dictator, it seems more like a democratic monarchy (Sort of similar to what England has i guess). I really doubt Usagi would want to be making all these polticial and governmental decisions for everyone.

I also don't see her ascending to the throne as NQS being directly related to the past. Its also possible that with Usagi and Mamoru being together it was their chance to do the world right this time and not destroy it or let it be destroyed. A way to redeem themselves for their mistakes in their past lives.



I hope that argument makes sense. Its kind of all over the place when i go to reread it. o_o;

___________________________


Avie by Marsiepan|| Eternal Knight's Myufu <3

Back to top Go down
http://seaofserenity.net http://britchan.tumblr.com/ http://brit-chan.deviantart.com
Sailor Cheeselog
Outer Senshi Admin
Roleplay Director


Outer Senshi Admin  Roleplay Director

Title : Oh, you mean you DON'T have an Elephabulous? Shame.
Posts : 11720
Join date : 2011-09-16
Age : 28
Location : NE Texas


PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:57 am

There's a lot to read here, lmao. But I'll throw in my two cents before reading everything just based on the little-over-half-page I have read, and hope that no one else has made this point yet ('cause otherwise I'd be boring you XD)

  1. Let's say there was this GIGANTIC ENORMOUS ALIEN INVASION WHERE PEOPLE WERE BEING KILLED LEFT AND RIGHT AND ARTICLES THAT WERE ESSENTIALLY PART OF THEIR SOULS WERE HARVESTED TO GRANT THOSE MALEFIC ALIENS EVEN MORE POWER AND MILITARY ALL OVER EARTH WERE ESSENTIALLY USELESS BECAUSE THESE ALIENS EMPLOYED MAGIC THAT WAS CONTROLLED FROM WITHIN THEMSELVES.

    There'd be no way to win. We'd be a planet of slaves, because even our most intelligent or strongest members of any society anywhere on Earth wouldn't stand a chance. There is no weak point, no power source they could shut off, short of killing said aliens, and it's been established that these aliens are near impossible to kill. We're screwed.

    And then this group of 20-something year old young women and this dude wearing a tuxedo step forward to combat these Aliens, and it turns out that they have the power to defeat them. Through television broadcasts that are transmitted world-wide, the citizens of Earth hear, understand, and realize that this group of Earth Heroes, named after the planets in their solar system and lead by a girl who claims to fight for love and justice in the name of the Moon, are their only hope. They watch as these YOUNG GIRLS fight and are defeated but rise to fight again, all to save them, the people of Earth. They put their lives on the line when it's made clear that they could've just abandoned Earth and flown through space to find another world. They stayed to fight. To protect Earth and ALL of her citizens. And through the power of this thing that the leader uses, the Silver Crystal, and the crystal the tuxedo man holds, the Golden Crystal, they defeat the alien threat and save the world.

    Even if that was all they did, I think that the Earth would honor them. They wouldn't necessarily feel in the debt of the Sailor Senshi, but every single person who saw what they went through would feel a kinship with those girls, their Heroes, and might even give them special titles. That, combined with the new knowledge that we AREN'T alone in space and that some alien classes will WILLINGLY hunt humans for what they hold within them and that, apparently only these girls can save them, Methinks they'd give Serenity and Endymion the title QUEEN AND KING OF EARTH willingly.

    Governments form to rule the people, but a big force behind why people allow them to rule is the protection factor. People allow governments to rule when governments can promise to protect them, their lands, and their happiness from outside threats. SENSHI GOT THAT COVERED ON A WORLDWIDE SCALE. No problem.

    But does this necessarily mean that the entire world gives up their culture and their government, their rights, etc., to hold her as their highest local authority? NO WAY! I see time of Crystal Tokyo (the Crystal Millennium *nodnod*) as a time where Earth continued to develop the way it would have had those aliens or whatever not attacked. USA continued to be USA, England continued to be England, etc.; the only change was that each head of government ran their country privately, but looked to Crystal Tokyo for disputes between countries (like NATO) and the rulers themselves were held accountable by NQS and her Court (like... no genocides, no terrible acts, etc., or you're fired).

    Basically their rulership would be on an honorary level, like the Royal Family in Britain.

  2. Oh, but if that alien invasion thing wasn't enough to keep the world satisfied to continue to look to Crystal Tokyo for ultimate leadership and protection from outside forces, there's that whole GOLDEN AND SILVER CRYSTAL deal. You know, those quirky little traits each crystal has on normal people. LIKE HEALING THEIR ASSES. Terminal illness? Not with the Silver Crystal around, thanksmuch. What? Plantlife suffering? People not respecting nature? GOLDEN CRYSTAL, chibi.

    With the Silver Crystal's innate healing abilities, its no wonder that the people who live closest to it (basked in its super healing light) stop aging early and live for such a long time. They're constantly being healed. There's hardly any cell death. They're good to go.

    And even if they don't live close to the Silver Crystal and achieve that long lifespan, their lives are still enriched through the work of those smarty-pants fancy-wancy doctors/nurses that make house calls out of Crystal Tokyo - you know, that amazing research doctor Sailor Mercury who cured everything. And that darling Sailor Saturn who can heal people nearly as well as King Endymion can.



So I see their rulership in the future as being honorary, running like Britain's Royalty or functioning as something like NATO with WHO rolled into it. I mean, they might not even officially rule Japan - they're base is just in Tokyo (... which they took the liberty of crystallizing).




Now, could I see descent happening? Oh, easily. The Dark Moon Clan were upset at how long people lived in Crystal Tokyo - they felt like having such long lifespans actually stopped people from living their lives for the moment, which, honestly, they probably weren't. In so many stories and tales, Immortality is a curse more than a gift, because there is no end. Day to day activities can become mundane all too quickly, risks don't matter -- people just don't value life as much. The Dark Moon Clan just wanted people to life in the moment, the way people had when they only had 80 years to live instead of near 1000 (in Crystal Tokyo, anyway). Wiseman made them think that Serenity's rule was overrated.


Anyway, those're just my thoughts.

___________________________


Super Awesome Space Museum//Kyra's RP's


Last edited by Sailor Uranus on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:01 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : forgot a word, lol.)
Back to top Go down
http://fanfiction.net/~kyralih http://kyralih.tumblr.com
Sailor Cheeselog
Outer Senshi Admin
Roleplay Director


Outer Senshi Admin  Roleplay Director

Title : Oh, you mean you DON'T have an Elephabulous? Shame.
Posts : 11720
Join date : 2011-09-16
Age : 28
Location : NE Texas


PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:00 am

Also: Small Lady, HIGH FIVE! Very Happy I didn't know you were posting and after reading your response I'm like WOOO SAME WAVELENGTH.

___________________________


Super Awesome Space Museum//Kyra's RP's
Back to top Go down
http://fanfiction.net/~kyralih http://kyralih.tumblr.com
Brit-chan
Senior Member
Small Lady Emeritus


Senior Member  Small Lady Emeritus

Title : Queen of the Cat Kingdom
Posts : 20313
Join date : 2011-06-24
Age : 29
Location : Lafayette, LA


PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:03 am

Haha i know. xD You pretty much assumed what I assumed, but i was trying to think of what was canon in the manga and Anime.

I don't know if there is a canon in Myu for how Crystal tokyo happens. It just seems that it does. PGSM of course we know that it probably won't happen since everyone lives normal lives after everything.

___________________________


Avie by Marsiepan|| Eternal Knight's Myufu <3

Back to top Go down
http://seaofserenity.net http://britchan.tumblr.com/ http://brit-chan.deviantart.com
Jupiter Rose
Lotus Crystal


Lotus Crystal

Title : Who am I now in this world without her?
Posts : 5947
Join date : 2012-04-03
Age : 24
Location : Once Arizona, now Scotland


PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:51 am

@Kyralih and Brit-chan

Cheers Cheers Cheers

I love these ideas. They make total sense. I wouldn't be surprised if Naoko was thinking more along these lines herself for NQS and King Endymion.

___________________________

Graphics thanks to NQS, Bubbles, Gemma, Mars, & Diana
Crystal Gem Universe
Back to top Go down
lucinda~
Pyramidal Crystal


Pyramidal Crystal

Title : hi i like shorts!
Posts : 103
Join date : 2012-06-19
Location : Australia


PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:20 am

You guys!

You give me so much to think about my brain is going crazy.

___________________________


by the beautiful Neo Queen Serenity
Back to top Go down
http://hiilikeshorts.tumblr.com/ http://hiilikeshorts.tumblr.com/
Jupiter Rose
Lotus Crystal


Lotus Crystal

Title : Who am I now in this world without her?
Posts : 5947
Join date : 2012-04-03
Age : 24
Location : Once Arizona, now Scotland


PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:34 pm

That's why I love theories and debates so much ♥ I love seeing other peoples ideas and whatnot. It gives you a lot to think about with new perspectives.

___________________________

Graphics thanks to NQS, Bubbles, Gemma, Mars, & Diana
Crystal Gem Universe
Back to top Go down
deathrebirthsenshi
Star Seed


Star Seed

Posts : 19
Join date : 2012-09-19
Age : 23
Location : Dartmouth College


PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:44 am

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
Well then, what does it have to do with Neo Queen Serenity being, well, "wrong" then? o.o XD because she was selfish? It's only dubbed selfish if people make it that way, which the kingdoms obviously did if they fell due to them disapproving of the relationship and causing problems between the kingdoms.

Also a side note I just thought of (probably because I'm a bone head XD): if Usagi is not Serenity and Mamoru isn't exactly Endymion, why do they take on the titles "Neo Queen Serenity" and "King Endymion" if they are different? Is it because they just decided to take on these names when they ascended the throne or...?
I think they might have been referring to the pgsm there; Serenity and Usagi's personalities were drastically different in the pgsm. In the anime and manga, I see them as the same person; Serenity is sort of her true form, whereas Usagi is just her daily persona. But both are one and the same. You especially see this in Queen Serenity's notes from the future...

OMG I totally was talking about this with a friend and was going to (eventually) explore this in a fanfic!

In a monarchy where one person holds all of the power, there's always the risk for abuse, intentional or not. In the case of Usagi and co, well...first all, let me just say that humanity is generally stupid, and sometimes, you know...stripping people of their rights may not always be a bad thing...lol. But that approaches the level of being a tyrant, which is "wrong."

Queen Serenity is a good and loving person; she would never intentionally abuse her power, but I suppose there could be instances where people feel like their rights have been breached; this is basically the argument the black moon clan had (but they totally had nefarious plans, and were basically terrorists, which really only leads one to believe that Serenity was totally justified in her actions. But I digress.) I personally feel like Queen Serenity's rule is justified via my lack of faith in humanity; Serenity basically has god like power and turned earth into a paradise. I don't think the people could ask for more. Further, if a majority of people were unhappy with her rule, I feel like she would step down. A curious thing to explore, though, might be the attitudes of the other senshi, namely Haruka, when it comes to policing the place...Haruka, I think, might border being corrupt in her haste to protect the queen. I could see her jailing someone for slandering Serenity, whereas serenity would free him and scold Haruka about freedom of speech. Idk, random ideas floating in my head.

I am curious about how this came about; I feel like it would have to be by accident or something. I just don't see Usagi getting up one day and saying, "I'm queen, I want to rule you all!" lol.

*insert joke about Princess Celestia and her 1000 year reign...*
Back to top Go down
semexx
Star Seed


Star Seed

Posts : 9
Join date : 2014-05-20

PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   Tue May 27, 2014 12:05 am

Sailor Mars wrote:

Serenity married Endymion, the Earth ruler. The Earth royalty. That's how she's queen.  


That's not the way it is painted in the anime or manga though. As far as I remember, Neo Queen Serenity ascended the throne after freeing the world from ice. No mention of King Endymion there. To me it sounds more like Endymion is the plus one here, absurd as it sounds. It is Serenity who saves the world (or at least a part of it)-not Endymion. She doesn't need Endymion to become a queen. Power is might and might makes right. Politics always work this way. In the end Endymion's 'claim' to the throne doesn't mean a thing.

Also I wouldn't describe Endymion as the Earth ruler. He was merely Prince Endymion during the Silver Millenium. We don't even really know anything about his family. As far as we know there could be other heirs to the throne. Plus this Golden Kingdom is dead and over already. Being a reincarnation of a former Prince of Earth and a Kingdom that doesn't exist anymore, doesn't give him the right to anything. I doubt the humans of the 30th century would accept his rule and just toss more than thousand years of history away because of that. Just imagine this happening today: Some reincarnated noble with claim to a throne that doesn't exist anymore wants to rule the world. Nuh uh.
Back to top Go down
Brit-chan
Senior Member
Small Lady Emeritus


Senior Member  Small Lady Emeritus

Title : Queen of the Cat Kingdom
Posts : 20313
Join date : 2011-06-24
Age : 29
Location : Lafayette, LA


PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:06 am

He's not just a reincarnated noble though, he holds the Starseed of earth within him (this goes across just about all canons except PGSM where they don't go into starseeds) and is therefore Earths Guardian (his starseed has the same power and qualities of a Sailor Crystal according to the manga and myu canons). I think in the manga, him being the Guardian of Earth and marrying Usagi is what sort of makes them King and Queen, but in the 90s anime I think you are right that it was really just Usagi/Serenity's power to save everyone that triggered her ascension.

___________________________


Avie by Marsiepan|| Eternal Knight's Myufu <3

Back to top Go down
http://seaofserenity.net http://britchan.tumblr.com/ http://brit-chan.deviantart.com
nerf-or-nothing
Star Seed


Star Seed

Title : The Hybrid Enigma
Posts : 1463
Join date : 2013-01-08
Location : A far away land, where mystery and adventure are rich and bountiful, and where dreams are not wished, but granted <3


PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?   Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:45 pm

My personal interpretation of Crystal Tokyo was that it was the capital of a new Silver Millennium. 

If we are going by manga here, when Sailor Moon destroyed Metallia by using the crystal and praying to the tower of prayer, the kingdoms of the Silver Millennium were restored to their glory instead of still being in dust and ruin.

Kakyuu tells them that when Serenity and Endymion join hands their peace if felt throughout time and space.

Princess Serenity was prophesied as being a greater ruler than her mother. Queen Serenity ruled the planets in our Solar System, minus Earth despite protecting it from outside forces so it can develop, evolve and flourish on it's own without interference. I assume from these the rule extends to outside of the solar system. I wonder also if the Asteriods weren't in the past but only in the future as the manga made it seem. It's a much larger Alliance than the Silver Millennium was.

The Dark Moon clan as the manga made it seem, were regular humans that didn't seem to have a problem with the ideals of the kingdom until they began hearing a phantom voice poison their thoughts and minds with negativity and doubt about their home. Which Earth was their home, they weren't born on Nemesis and neither was the Death Phantom.

In the manga, the death phantom had his own will, as does everyone it seems. Serenity never took that away. She was not a dictator by any means and in fact hardly ever forced her hand or even left her palace. She became a recluse.

The Death Phantom was a mass murder and a serial killer. He was human BUT he had powers. Despite having powers, he was human which is why Neo Queen Serenity was too soft to kill him and instead imprisoned him on Nemesis. They didn't know much of this planet when they banished him there and never foresaw that he could be adsorbed into the planet and that the planet would consume and transform his powers and hatred into a new body for him once his human flesh decayed.

She regretted not killing him. I'd sooner see a dictator execute him.

The Death Phantom died many many years, I think hundreds before he began speaking to what would later become the Dark Moon Clan.

He influenced them much like Chibiusa was influenced to become Black Lady. To put it simply, all their reasons for what they did against their home, was not because they disliked the kingdoms and it's ideals but because those reasons were no even their own choice or will.

The Kingdom is very idealistic. In one of Chibiusa's picture Diaries it's stated that you can eat all the sweets you want and not gain any weight or get any cavities. Quite frankly I wish I could get that deal, I gain weight simply by looking at cake and don't get me started on my teeth lol.

But from what I read, she never forced people to believe in what she wanted. She merely wanted to end the fighting and bring peace to all she loved and she loved many people, not just people of Earth.

Also, Neo Queen Serenity is only ruling on Earth because she married the Prince of Earth. It was his Kingdom as much as the Moon is hers and Mars's Phobos Deimos Castle and the planet Mars belongs to Rei.

In the manga, I don't believe there was ever any tragedy that took place in order for them to ascend the thrown. It was stated that at age 22 after(I think) Chibiusa was born they ascended the thrown together. 

When the Silver Millennium and the Moon Kingdom were restored with the help of the Tower of Prayer, they chose to remain on Earth, as they were reborn into and live there. She gave up her Kingdom to be with Mamoru, she married into that Kingdom.

But the series is called Sailor Moon and personally I believe she is stronger than Mamoru and she has more of those outside universe connections than him but she only Rules Crystal Tokyo because of marriage otherwise she'd either be a normal girl(as normal as an reborn alien human can be) or she'd go rule her own home world.

That being said, she plays a key part in protecting Earth thus as Queen has much influence and I'm sure the Senshi do too. They all have key political roles to play, and who is to say they never go back to rebuild their own kingdoms? 

Only the tootsie pop owl may ever know lol...

In the manga it's stated that not everyone had longevity either. It seemed to me that when the Death Phantom started his murdering spree, her hand was forced and she didn't want to force it. King Endymion made it seem as if she didn't want to have to punish him. She's a pacifist and the Kingdom of Crystal Tokyo like the Silver Millennium is a Pacifist Nation.

People can basically do as they please and live good and in some cases live long, but if they were murdering with powers, when humans do not possess them, then the Kingdom is forced to take it's hand and protect the people other than that I don't see why they wouldn't still have police and court systems to take care of other things that normal humans can.

After all, with the senshi, King and Queen acting as the Solar Systems protectors once again, their duty is to mainly ensure the earth is safe from outside invasions of evil powers, not control the general powerless public.
Back to top Go down
 

[Debate] Was Neo Queen Serenity's Kingdom Justified?

View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 2Go to page : Previous  1, 2

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
The Galaxy Cauldron :: General Sailor Moon Discussions :: Theories, Debates and Headcanons-