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 Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   8th September 2012, 8:08 pm

Absolutely. I agree with Genesis. Thank you for pointing out that episode!

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   8th September 2012, 8:58 pm

Another beautiful moment is in episode 106 of S. Michiru risks her own life to save Haruka from the Daimon and Michiru tells Haruka that she didn't do it just for the sake of the mission but because she really did want to take a car trip in the sunset with her.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   9th September 2012, 4:38 am

Yes, these scenes of Michiru defending Haruka are great? And do you know how many such scenes did Usagi and Mamoru have, both ways?

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
Fights just 'disappearing' is unrealistic and unresolved. No couple exists like that. Also, who wants a perfect relationship with no hardships or difficulties or anything like that? It's fake and boring.

Also -- most people kiss with their eyes closed...

Not saying we can't see their love. We do, but we think there are stronger ones out there, just like say seeing someone better suited for Usagi (Seiya) personality wise. It is okay if you think they're the greatest, it is. But some of us do not. Really read our reasoning as to why we do Smile it's not Usagi and Mamoru hating either. Haruka and Michiru have their flaws as well, but I see them as more of a soul mate pairing than Usagi and Mamoru. And that reasoning is because I see how they compliment each other. Soul mates are your missing piece(s). They complete you. They compliment you. Haruka and Michiru compliment each other. I don't really see it with Usagi and Mamoru. They're not even close to the same. They have the same goal, that's about it. That doesn't make you "the same" or anything like that.

But it's more than the same goal - they have the same values, beliefs and outlook on life. You can see it best in the much hated Doom Tree arc. They both spend time taking care of lonely baby, they both visit ill Natsumi, they both wish Ali and Ann happy end, even when they were almost killed by them.

And temper-wise they compliment each other - Mamoru's strength and silence supports and calms Usagi and her joy of life and warmth breaks through his reserve and soften his behaviour.

And their fights disappear naturally, when their purpose ended. When they get close and didn't need to flirt anymore. Which doesn't mean that their relationship is perfect - Usagi is jealous, Mamoru is reserved, various people want to steal Mamoru for different purposes, Usagi is jealous and Mamoru gets this studies in States. And Usagi is jealous.

Also, Usagi and Seiya are totally unsuited in personalities.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   9th September 2012, 7:57 pm

Usagi and Mamoru are the main characters and appear in every season and Haruka and Michiru only appear in two seasons of the anime, so I think it's unfair to compare how much they love each other based solely on the number of scenes they're in. Speaking of their past lives, does anyone else remember that whole Prince Uranus nonsense that the SOS came up with?
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   9th September 2012, 8:00 pm

no, I don't. and even though I have a website names SOS Sailor Moon, I really don't think we said that

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   9th September 2012, 8:29 pm

This was from an older site from way back in the 90s, the Save Our Sailors Campaign, but at one point they made up a claim that Haruka was originally a man in his past life and that Haruka and Michiru weren't really lesbians: http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=Prince_Uranus
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   9th September 2012, 8:32 pm

i remember. back in 1998...

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   9th September 2012, 9:14 pm

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
But it's more than the same goal - they have the same values, beliefs and outlook on life. You can see it best in the much hated Doom Tree arc. They both spend time taking care of lonely baby, they both visit ill Natsumi, they both wish Ali and Ann happy end, even when they were almost killed by them.

And temper-wise they compliment each other - Mamoru's strength and silence supports and calms Usagi and her joy of life and warmth breaks through his reserve and soften his behaviour.

And their fights disappear naturally, when their purpose ended. When they get close and didn't need to flirt anymore. Which doesn't mean that their relationship is perfect - Usagi is jealous, Mamoru is reserved, various people want to steal Mamoru for different purposes, Usagi is jealous and Mamoru gets this studies in States. And Usagi is jealous.

Also, Usagi and Seiya are totally unsuited in personalities.

That may be, but they are not suited personality wise. I said in a few posts back, opposites attract is generally a bunch of BS. You may have the same goals and whatnot, but if your personality isn't rather similar, a relationship isn't going to work out. This includes even friendships. If you want a real life example, my best friend and I work out as friends because our personalities and hearts are very similar to each other. Our interests range differently a little bit, but our personalities and hearts bring us together. Usagi and Mamoru aren't really like that.

I'm pretty sure silence doesn't help a person or resolve any problems they're having in real life, whether the problem is with the person or not. You're basically talking to yourself then and resolving it on your own if they just sit there. And some people are just reserved. My friends and I are. You can't change that; it's apart of your personality. We're introverted. Someone bubbly doesn't make you 'less reserved' or whatever. Hence why I say opposites are BS.

Fights don't just 'disappear'. You have to resolve them somehow or they'll just resurface in the future. Trust me. Been there, tried that/done that.

And Usagi isn't exactly what I'd call 'jealous' of Mamoru going to the US to study. She doesn't want him to go. That doesn't make her jealous. If she was jealous she'd be like "Why is Mamo-chan going and not me? I should be the one going >.>". But I know you're thinking "see? see? they're soul mates!". Well yes, they are, I will agree there that they are. They are because that's just how it is. I acknowledge that. However, I've seen more soul mate strengths for Haruka and Michiru in the little tidbits of them we get than with Usagi and Mamoru. Razz That's why every time I really see Haruka and Michiru, my mind automatically thinks they're soul mates. They just are too.

And also, Usagi and Seiya are for the other topic Wink but I will say they totally are suited and people have made several great points as to why.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   9th September 2012, 9:52 pm

Thanks for pointing those episodes when I wasn't here Genesis Very Happy ! They make me cry every time I see them... Sad

Moonlight Lady - Like I have pointed out earlier just like Genesis is saying now Haruka and Michiru were only in two anime seasons and in three manga arcs as supporting characters (aka they didn't get even half of the screen time that UsaMamo got) when Usagi and Mamoru had the most of the screen time in every single arc/season. I hope people would remember what we have discussed about earlier before asking the same things again >___>

I certainly do agree with you Tuxie!

Mamoru and Usagi are so different from each other. While Mamoru is always calm and quiet, Usagi's goofing around and very talkative. These are just few examples.

And fights never disappear if you haven't resolved them somehow; you'll just face them again. I've been in situations like that, as well.

When Mamoru went to US Usagi didn't want him to leave, she wanted him to stay with her but wasn't selfish and let him go. And Mamoru did. That's what really annoys me to tell truth, he apparently did think about Usagi before he left but still decided to go and I don't think Usagi would've done that to Mamoru. So in my opinion he was selfish.

So Haruka's and Michiru's love seems so much stronger for me and I see them so much more as soul mates than Usagi and Mamoru. I am repeating myself again and quoting what I've said in earlier posts:

Haruka and Michiru didn't have the chance to meet and love each other in their past lives but when they were able to meet each other in the present and fell in love with each other. And like I said they love each other more than the world itself and were lonely and sad in their past lives because something was missing, some very important parts of themselves; the parts of the other one. They didn't meet each other and hadn't known the other side of themselves, their soul mate since they're one person when together. In the present they became full when they met the other one. They're willing to sacrifice anything for the sake of their lover and cannot live without each other. They follow the other to the death love each other so much they don't care if they end up in hell if they just have each other. So yah, they will always be together, now and forever.

So Tuxie has pointed out the same thing what I've been saying the whole time, as well. Michiru and Haruka were broken souls before meeting each other; they were lonely, couldn't trust anyone and were crying alone in their minds. When they met each other they became their real selves, complementing each other and becoming full as persons, finally finding their missing pieces, each other.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   9th September 2012, 11:58 pm

As for scenes where Haruka sacrifices herself for Michiru, in that same episode where Eudial takes their heart crystals, when Michiru starts running through the raining spears, Haruka tells Michiru to stop moving and begs her not to come anymore. You can see how heartbroken Haruka is in her face when she realizes Michiru is about to die and how she would rather take the the pain than Michiru:
Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   10th September 2012, 12:04 am

Omg all the feels. Seriously one of the most depressing episodes. Sad thank you for that though, Neon. Just new points to show Haruka and Michiru's soul mate-y love <3

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   10th September 2012, 3:59 am

To be fair, Mamoru and Usagi sacrifice themselves for each other a lot too. Mamoru jumps in front of Usagi to save her a lot, and Usagi has done it before too, like that episode in Supers I believe, where Usagi places herself in line of that balloon person so that Mamoru wouldn't suffocate. I think that has the same kind of feels as the Haruka and Michiru sacrificing scenes.

Also, I don't think that Mamoru and Usagi's personalities clash all that much. I think they meld pretty nicely, helping to bring out the best in one another. A couple doesn't have to be incredibly similar to work. Mamoru may be more quiet and brooding, and Usagi may be more bubbly and flighty, but Usagi is able to make Mamoru relax more and helps to bring him out of his shell. Mamoru is able to help Usagi calm down a little, and be a little more serious when things need to be, and he helps reassure her when she is feeling down. They both protect each other, they enjoy spending time together, and they support each other.

And the whole thing with Mamoru going to the US, I don't think it's fair to say he was selfish. It was obvious that he was upset about it too, and I think he spent a good long time debating on the subject. But if he goes to do schooling and to further his education, how can you really blame him? He was only going to be gone a year, wasn't it? The anime showed Motoki and Reika going through a much more extreme version of this, where Reika would be gone for many years, and it was taken as being really good of Motoki for allowing Reika to do something that was her dream. He was upset about it too, just like Usagi is about Mamoru's trip, and of course they are. It's incredibly hard to know you won't see the person you love for a long time. But I don't think it was selfish on any account.

I probably should just stay away from this thread. I'm always defending one pair, and then the other... xD

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   10th September 2012, 11:01 am

Yah but what we really see more in HaruMichi scenes is their despair when they see their lover's going to die. Michiru wasn't supposed to even stand up after the spears hit her but she does this (even twice) *and I'm crying here now ;____;* to save her lover's life. You can see the despair in Haruka's eyes when she sees Michiru running to her putting her life on the line and when she cries out Michiru not to move and the same despair in Michiru's eyes when she tries to save Haruka, not caring about her own life. And before Haruka kills herself we see she's broken, devastated and grieving when she says it’s unfair of Michiru to leave to the world of her own alone and then kills herself. So when you think about it you can see that Haruka didn't do a suicide to release the Talisman inside her heart but mostly because her lover was dead.

Yeah, I think it was good for Mamoru to think about his future since if he studied much it could help him and his family (Usagi) in many ways but if Usagi were the one going to study to US I don't think she could've done that because she cares other people too much to think about herself in many situations like that.

Oh Verdandi silly you XD This thread really was originally created to tell which couple you like more XD...

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   10th September 2012, 11:16 am

Yeah, I believe Usagi wouldn't be able to do such a thing, since she *needs* the people she loves to be around her at all times. She does everything she can to make sure that it stays that way, too.

I totally agree that Haruka's suicide in that episode was more because of Michiru no longer being in the world, and she mostly found it ironic that she had a talisman inside of herself. It sort of justified her actions, but part of me thinks she would have fallen apart without Michiru around, even without the talisman to provoke her.

Funnily enough, I like Haruka/Michiru more... xD But I love exploring other couples too, like Usagi and Mamoru, but I like Usagi and Seiya too. (Blasphemy!) It's kind of *why* I like Haruka/Michiru more because I can't really see either of them with anyone else. (Except in my own little world where Setsuna gets thrown into the mix once in a while *cough*) While with other characters, I can try to come up with different scenarios for them to all fall in love with each other. But to break up Michiru and Haruka never seems to work in my head... xD

This post doesn't make sense, I'm sorry haha *exits*

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   10th September 2012, 11:57 am

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki - everybody remembers that Usagi and Mamoru got more screen time. Only I can't help feeling how grossly unfair is to swoon over one scene of H&Mi and miss plenty of scenes of Usagi and Mamoru doing the same. Despair? Willingness to take away the pain from the other person? Unability to cope without her? We got it many times.

Mamoru and Usagi love spending time with each other and they don't fight anymore, unless she is jealous - but as Lady Tuxedo points out, she gets over her jealousy in Stars.

I rather interpreted their being lonely and sad in past because of not being with princess.

And how can anybody call Mamoru selfish? This guy asked her to find happiness with another before his death and apologized for being sick, because he couldn't support her. H&Mi aren't even close to that kind of sacrifice and caring for one another. He did discuss with Usagi his journey and actually at the end of Stars does seem to stay.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   10th September 2012, 12:32 pm

Mamoru can be called selfish because he is a human. Just like you can call Usagi all sorts of things, pointing out her flaws, because she too is human (and we all just love her so much ). Also, remember, you are talking to a Mamoru/Tuxedo Mask/Endymion fan here. Wink

I feel like Uranus and Neptune in the past were probably just plain old lonely because they had literally no one with them while they did their duties. They were in isolation. Which, was a good thing because who knows how it would've turned out when the two got united; they could've tossed their duties out the window. Wink

There really is no right or wrong on the subject of Haruka and Michiru, only "what if"s. We see our reasonings like you see yours. None of us deny what Usagi and Mamoru have done for each other, like their basically "taking a bullet" for the other. We just see more of a soul mate bond in Haruka and Michiru than we do in Usagi and Mamoru. We don't deny that they are soul mates.

Also, Verdandi, it's okay if you debate for both sides Razz happens. There's no black in white in life; not even in Sailor Moon XD

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   10th September 2012, 1:07 pm

Tuxie- You are so agreeing with my opinion about Haruka's and Michiru's past lives! Edit - we should make an RP about this! Would you be willing to take Haruka since I already have two canons XD?

Moonlight Lady - And why do we remember that episode so well and talk about it so much? Because it's one of the most touching scenes of the anime. We do see UsaMamo in situations like this, as well but do we ever see them standing up and desperately trying to save their beloved running to her/him when with all sense and logic in the world they shouldn't even be alive anymore, not even speaking about standing up. And do we ever see them so grieving they make a suicide to be together with their beloved (in the anime)? And logically if Haruka and Michiru were the main characters they'd get more moments like that. But the fact is that they are not the main characters nor they have much focus on them in the storyline but they got the tragic and most devastating episodes and scenes of the series.

Maybe Mamoru wasn't selfish (and note that I'm only talking about his decision to go to US, not about his other actions) but like I said I think Usagi would've made a different decision since she's more unselfish.

And yeah I do see that it is a big sacrifice to ask one to spend her life with another when you love her yourself but how is that a bigger sacrifice than what Haruka and Michiru have done for each other? Michiru didn't want Haruka to get involved in the battle and tried to protect her with all she had and she apologized her for involving her in the battle when she had been happy just to watch her from far distance. She apologized for telling her about her own feelings. Haruka had the choice not to fight but to continue her normal life, she was scared but decided to fight beside Michiru and noticed that it was the right decision, even though she knew they'd most likely die accomplishing their mission. Michiru and Haruka had made the promise to abandon the other one if something were to happen, to abandon their own feelings for each other and continue their lives forgetting everything about their beloved even if she died. But they couldn't keep this promise since their feelings were way too strong to be thrown away. Then Michiru tried to save Haruka with the last strength she had left, to the very last breath of her life not caring what happened to herself. She was willing to die if Haruka was saved. And Haruka couldn't live without her, making a suicide to leave to the same world Michiru had gone herself, saying that it was unfair of her to leave her behind.

Michiru was willing to let the world die if she just had Haruka with her, saying that 'A world without Haruka isn't worth of saving' and when they died they didn't care where they'd go if they just had each other since then the other one would be happy.

So there were some proofs that Haruka and Michiru share much greater caring for each other and are willing to do anything for the sake of one another.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   10th September 2012, 8:12 pm

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Tsuki-no-Kagayaki - everybody remembers that Usagi and Mamoru got more screen time. Only I can't help feeling how grossly unfair is to swoon over one scene of H&Mi and miss plenty of scenes of Usagi and Mamoru doing the same. Despair? Willingness to take away the pain from the other person? Unability to cope without her? We got it many times.
Earlier in the thread you were the one who asked for when Haruka and Michiru had sacrificed themselves for each other. I gave you two examples, then you suddenly changed your argument into a scene count competition when that's not what you originally said.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   11th September 2012, 12:41 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
Mamoru can be called selfish because he is a human. Just like you can call Usagi all sorts of things, pointing out her flaws, because she too is human (and we all just love her so much ).

Shocked Where did I call Usagi "allsorts of things"? I only said that she's sometimes too jealous and I'm glad she improves in Stars.

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
remember, you are talking to a Mamoru/Tuxedo Mask/Endymion fan here. Wink

O? I seriously believed his fans were extinct...


Lady Tuxedo wrote:
None of us deny what Usagi and Mamoru have done for each other, like their basically "taking a bullet" for the other. We just see more of a soul mate bond in Haruka and Michiru than we do in Usagi and Mamoru. We don't deny that they are soul mates.

So did I imagine all these comments, how Mamoru and Usagi are totally incompatible, fight constantly, have nothing in common and are together because of the previous life, duty and to have Chibiusa? (Mamoru apparently never heard about artificial insemination?) Oh, and how Mamoru and Usagi taking bullet for each other isn't touching?
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   11th September 2012, 1:49 pm

You didn't call Usagi anything XD I meant in the general sense is all Razz

And yes, I am a Mamoru/Tuxedo Mask/Endymion fan. There are fans, you just gotta look for them and whatnot on here Razz

Also, saying you don't think they necessarily are the best together and you see stronger points in Haruka and Michiru doesn't say Usagi and Mamoru aren't soul mates. They are. It's just you think there's better. XD And yeah, some of us just found Haruka's and Michiru's trials together more touching. *shrug*

The fighting constantly thing might have been imagined... My only comment on the fighting is if the fight just basically "evaporates", it'll resurface later.

Also, though I do love Chibiusa (she's one of my favorites), I still totally am not behind the fact that she went to the past and Usagi and Mamoru found out they were her parents. Now, no matter what could come up, they have to be together because they love her.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   12th September 2012, 11:54 am

But they don't have to be together to have Chibiusa.

And one of the reasons they love Chibiusa is that she is not only their child, but also child of the person they love and result of their mutual love. I'm sure Mamoru would still love Chibiusa if she was daughter of Usagi and Rubeus. And Usagi would love her if she was Mamoru's child with Setsuna.

@Neon Genesis wrote:
@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Tsuki-no-Kagayaki - everybody remembers that Usagi and Mamoru got more screen time. Only I can't help feeling how grossly unfair is to swoon over one scene of H&Mi and miss plenty of scenes of Usagi and Mamoru doing the same. Despair? Willingness to take away the pain from the other person? Unability to cope without her? We got it many times.
Earlier in the thread you were the one who asked for when Haruka and Michiru had sacrificed themselves for each other. I gave you two examples, then you suddenly changed your argument into a scene count competition when that's not what you originally said.

I didn't change any argument, because I didn't make any argument, just a question about, which scenes are meant. And scene count competition is important, because if H&Mi are perfect couple for having two such scenes, why Mamousa are dismissed, while having over a dozen?
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   12th September 2012, 12:52 pm

Yes they do have to be together to have Chibiusa o_o you can't just do the deed, no strings attached, and have Chibiusa (given they were to ever have difficulties; UsaMamo that is). He cannot "donate for Chibiusa's cause" either. That's just weird! Life totally does not work like that XDD

Also -- she wouldn't be Chibiusa then if she was had any other way, so that doesn't work either. Yeah, maybe love, in a friend way if Usagi and Mamoru were to ever split, like the senshi love Chibiusa. The 'mutual love' is with most people (not all) usually what results in a child, anyway. But it's paternal love that makes Usagi and Mamoru love Chibiusa. They're her parents. They care about her like the daughter she is to them. So....

Basically, like I said, while I love me some Chibiusa, that was totally not a good move to have her travel to the past because that tethers Usagi and Mamoru together too. That's just one more thing, like the past, that bound them together. Now I'm not saying that those are the sole reasons why they're together, but I am saying if they ever wanted to split up for whatever reason, they can't because they'd be sacrificing Chibiusa. She plays a role in this, too.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   13th September 2012, 12:07 pm

Lady Tuxedo - actually even doing the deed could be spared poor Usagi, if the kid was their aim... People in real life split all time despite having kids.

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:

Moonlight Lady - And why do we remember that episode so well and talk about it so much? Because it's one of the most touching scenes of the anime. We do see UsaMamo in situations like this, as well but do we ever see them standing up and desperately trying to save their beloved running to her/him when with all sense and logic in the world they shouldn't even be alive anymore, not even speaking about standing up. And do we ever see them so grieving they make a suicide to be together with their beloved (in the anime)?

Usagi is willing to give her star seed to Galaxia after learning Mamoru is dead. Only Starlights convince her that is her duty to continue her mission, which she does as she is more badass than Haruka. And immediately after seehing his death she cries unaware of anything in the world and she would die of Galaxia attack but for Sailor Starfighter and Chibi Chibi.

And as Serenity she runs to die with Endymion, even though he wants her to stay back.

And with all sense and logic in the world Usagi should not survive walking in snow and through thorns, Mamoru should not survive torture of Ali and Ann, attack of Black Lady or leaving Fiore's Crystal when he was wounded.

So, IMO you remember and talk about it- because it's all you've got?


Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
And yeah I do see that it is a big sacrifice to ask one to spend her life with another when you love her yourself but how is that a bigger sacrifice than what Haruka and Michiru have done for each other? Michiru didn't want Haruka to get involved in the battle and tried to protect her with all she had and she apologized her for involving her in the battle when she had been happy just to watch her from far distance. She apologized for telling her about her own feelings. Haruka had the choice not to fight but to continue her normal life, she was scared but decided to fight beside Michiru and noticed that it was the right decision, even though she knew they'd most likely die accomplishing their mission.


If Michiru didn't want to involve Haruka, she wouldn't meet her, confront her or confess to her. Yes, she was conflicted, but she still did tell her about her feelings.

When Mamoru is dying in the first season, in the Silver Crystal episode and the final, he doesn't waste his time on talking about his feelings, all he cares is Usagi's safety and happiness.

He even asks, why she's about cry, if she is safe

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
Then Michiru tried to save Haruka with the last strength she had left, to the very last breath of her life not caring what happened to herself.

Which again, is the norm for Usagi and Mamoru.


Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
Michiru was willing to let the world die if she just had Haruka with her, saying that 'A world without Haruka isn't worth of saving' and when they died they didn't care where they'd go if they just had each other since then the other one would be happy.

So in the end they are not the most dedicated warriors, whose first priority is their mission and saving the world?

Mamoru and Usagi also put each other above the world in the breakup storyline in R.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   13th September 2012, 1:53 pm

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Usagi is willing to give her star seed to Galaxia after learning Mamoru is dead. Only Starlights convince her that is her duty to continue her mission, which she does as she is more badass than Haruka.

I just wanted to comment on this part because I don't remember Usagi doing *anything* until the very end (I am not well versed to the manga version of Stars, so I could be wrong. I am only talking about the anime in this instance). I mean, again, at least Haruka had a plan, and she was putting herself at risk for the greater good. She did *something* as a last ditch effort when all else seemed lost, instead of doing nothing and waiting until something happened to her. Usagi is too passive when compared to Haruka and Michiru.

Anyway to go on topic, one of the biggest reasons that I personally find HaruMichi more interesting than UsaMamo is simply because Usagi has sooo many more interesting friendships with other characters that I find just more intriguing than her relationship with Mamoru. Her interactions with Chibiusa, her bickering with Rei, her lovingness to all of her friends, I just find those things more interesting to read about.

In retrospect, with Haruka and Michiru, I'd rather read about them interacting with eachother than with anyone else.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   14th September 2012, 10:23 am

Moonlight Lady -

Verdandi – You’re right, Usagi was NOT willing to give her Star Seed to Galaxia because of Mamoru’s death. The only things Usagi DID say was between these lines “If I gave up, would I be able to be with everyone else who is gone now? I don’t want to fight, I want them all back” So yeah she wanted to give up to be with everybody who had died for her, she didn’t want to lose more important people.

I don’t think the attacks which have hit Mamoru and Usagi (in general), nor her walking in snow (and then warmed up on the field) and walking through thorns were fatal like Eudial's weapons.(I'm not talking about the end of the first arc) All Sailor senshi survived from the same attacks as UsaMamo back in Makaiju arc and Mamoru was already partially healed in Fiore’s Crystal.

We don’t remember nor talk about ep. 110 like we wouldn’t have anything else because that’s not true. I can mention so many other episodes with touching HaruMichi scenes, as well. But let’s par example compare this to the end of the first arc and to the beginning of the second arc; would you just ignore them when you speak about the most tragic UsaMamo moments? I think nobody would since they are touching scenes. So it’s the completely same thing when we, HaruMichi fans, mention their deaths in Super and Stars. I can also mention the episodes 92, 102, the beginning of 110 and actually almost half of the episodes they are in, being very sweet and also sad. We can’t ignore their deaths since those scenes are so devastating and we all share the emotions and feels these scenes make us feel.

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
If Michiru didn't want to involve Haruka, she wouldn't meet her, confront her or confess to her. Yes, she was conflicted, but she still did tell her about her feelings.

When Mamoru is dying in the first season, in the Silver Crystal episode and the final, he doesn't waste his time on talking about his feelings, all he cares is Usagi's safety and happiness.


What Michiru said was that she didn't want Haruka to have the same kind of life she had but she didn't have choice other than to tell her because it was her destiny to do so, Haruka had already seen her in her dreams and was about to awaken soon.

Yeah, partly because he knows Usagi knows he loves her. Nor do Haruka and Michiru talk about their feelings when they die.

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Which again, is the norm for Usagi and Mamoru.

With all logic Michiru should've already been dead being hit by the arrows once but is instead hit twice when already being so weak she wasn't even meant to be able to sit up.

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
So in the end they are not the most dedicated warriors, whose first priority is their mission and saving the world?

They are. Their mission and love walk hand in hand and I also mentioned this quote because I wanted to point out the hidden meaning Michiru has in it. What she means is that no matter what hardship will face them or the world and no matter what destruction awaits Earth if they just have each other with them, they will save the world no matter what were to happen. The trust in her voice is clearly heard.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   14th September 2012, 12:45 pm

Just wanted to say for teh el oh elz...

In Stars, remember when Haruka and Michiru decided to "join" Galaxia as a final plan to take her out? They couldn't verbally communicate "hey, let's fake Galaxia out". They used their usual language and looking at each other to communicate their idea and work together. Can Usagi and Mamoru do that? I think not Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   14th September 2012, 12:52 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
Just wanted to say for teh el oh elz...

In Stars, remember when Haruka and Michiru decided to "join" Galaxia as a final plan to take her out? They couldn't verbally communicate "hey, let's fake Galaxia out". They used their usual language and looking at each other to communicate their idea and work together. Can Usagi and Mamoru do that? I think not Razz

SOUL MATES!



(I still love you Usagi, I really really do!)

OMG you just repeated what I said earlier ! I love you Tuxie! Without saying even one word about their plan they read each other's thoughts from their eyes.

THEY ARE SOUL MATES !!!



Also do you guys remember this same thing happened in Supers movie? Michiru had attacked the enemies, then Haruka and she nodded and Haruka rushed to attack them. And almost the same happens in episode 106

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   15th September 2012, 12:22 pm

Usagi and Mamoru did manage to communicate at the distance during SuperS finale. So they are a whole higher level of Soul Mates.



Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
Moonlight Lady -

Verdandi – You’re right, Usagi was NOT willing to give her Star Seed to Galaxia because of Mamoru’s death. The only things Usagi DID say was between these lines “If I gave up, would I be able to be with everyone else who is gone now? I don’t want to fight, I want them all back” So yeah she wanted to give up to be with everybody who had died for her, she didn’t want to lose more important people.

In the translation I watched she says "Mamoru and the rest".

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
I don’t think the attacks which have hit Mamoru and Usagi (in general), nor her walking in snow (and then warmed up on the field) and walking through thorns were fatal like Eudial's weapons.(I'm not talking about the end of the first arc) All Sailor senshi survived from the same attacks as UsaMamo back in Makaiju arc and Mamoru was already partially healed in Fiore’s Crystal.

I'm not sure he was healed - IIRC, Fiore tells Mamoru that he will be healed "soon". Mamoru collapses after throwing rose, so it wasn't yet. And breaking through the Crystal with bare hands?

Other senshi got hit a few times, but they weren't under constant attack as Usagi and Mamoru, who were also firstly deprived of life energy to the point of fainting. And, the most importantly - Mamoru is a mere mortal here. With no memories, no powers.

Usagi also walked through snow and thorns as ordinary girl - and how being torn by thorns isn't fatal?

And there is also attack of Black Lady in R final, which was meant to kill Usagi.

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
We don’t remember nor talk about ep. 110 like we wouldn’t have anything else because that’s not true.

I meant "not anything else" in the "taking the bullet" for other category, not in general scenes.

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
We can’t ignore their deaths since those scenes are so devastating and we all share the emotions and feels these scenes make us feel.

It's not about ignoring - only when such scenes are used as argument for H&Mi superiority over MamoUsa, ignoring the fact that opposing couple has a greater number of such scenes. Or diminishing their importance when they are brought.

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:

What Michiru said was that she didn't want Haruka to have the same kind of life she had but she didn't have choice other than to tell her because it was her destiny to do so, Haruka had already seen her in her dreams and was about to awaken soon.

Michiru had to choice to tell Haruka or not, and also what to tell and Haruka had a choice to accept her destiny or not.

Michiru is actually visibly upset when Haruka doesn't want to.

Tsuki-no=Kagayaki wrote:
Yeah, partly because he knows Usagi knows he loves her. Nor do Haruka and Michiru talk about their feelings when they die.
During the first scene I mentioned he doesn't - he just thinks only about her.

H&Mi seem to think mostly of their mission before death - they make peace with Starlights, finally.


Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
With all logic Michiru should've already been dead being hit by the arrows once but is instead hit twice when already being so weak she wasn't even meant to be able to sit up.

How do we know what she should be? She's in senshi form, they are stronger than regular humans.

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
They are. Their mission and love walk hand in hand and I also mentioned this quote because I wanted to point out the hidden meaning Michiru has in it. What she means is that no matter what hardship will face them or the world and no matter what destruction awaits Earth if they just have each other with them, they will save the world no matter what were to happen. The trust in her voice is clearly heard.

Mamoru believes Usagi will save the world even without him, so his trust is much greater.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   15th September 2012, 12:44 pm

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Usagi and Mamoru did manage to communicate at the distance during SuperS finale. So they are a whole higher level of Soul Mates.

Where? Evidence pl0x? ^^ cause he was laying in bed. That's it. Nothing else. They didn't have any communication as far as I remember. She went into battle and that was that.

I will say this though. I feel like Usagi goes through way more stretches for Mamoru than he has for her. Yes, in things such as the R movie, he got stabbed on her behalf, but then she had to go save him. She walked through snow and thorns for him at the beginning of Stars but there's not very many instances where you see him go through leaps and bounds for her. I suppose this could be due to the fact that Usagi is the central character and some elements of female empowerment (role reversal), but you still see her doing more for him. Her doing more for him =/= a reciprocated soul mate connection. As I say, yes, Usagi and Mamoru are soul mates, obviously. But, we see the evidence in the smaller pieces of Haruka and Michiru of a really strong, soul mate-y connection. Theirs, to me and others, is just so strong.

If you want to get down to it, both couples demonstrate their love in a different way. But the mature language between Haruka and Michiru, the easiness of them being able to understand each other with just a look, needing to be together (especially in literal form) to be their absolute best (and no Usagi does not need Mamoru there as Tuxedo Mask to be her absolute best in battle), the level of understanding they have (they're on the same level, the same wave length), their similarities/compatibility/chemistry, their maturity as a whole...that's what gets like me, Tsuki, probably Neon, and Verdandi. That is what we see. We see an elegant, beautiful, soul mate, completing love between these two women that is just so amazing. When I (and I'm sure so many others) think Haruka and Michiru/Uranus and Neptune, they really do think "soul mates". They don't just think "oh lesbian couple", they think soul mates. Probably as fast, if not faster, than they do with Usagi and Mamoru.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   15th September 2012, 1:04 pm

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
But the fact is that they are not the main characters nor they have much focus on them in the storyline but they got the tragic and most devastating episodes and scenes of the series.
Sorry, but it's your opinion, not a fact - I can see many tragic and devastating episodes and scenes - and no, not only Mamorusako's. Many characters do have them.


Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
Maybe Mamoru wasn't selfish (and note that I'm only talking about his decision to go to US, not about his other actions) but like I said I think Usagi would've made a different decision since she's more unselfish.
It's not a question of selfishness - Mamoru did the right thing to ask Usagi's permission. If she cared about something as he about his studies, Mamoru would never stop her, too.

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
Michiru was willing to let the world die if she just had Haruka with her, saying that 'A world without Haruka isn't worth of saving' and when they died they didn't care where they'd go if they just had each other since then the other one would be happy.

Which again doesn't make them very dedicated warriors.

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
So there were some proofs that Haruka and Michiru share much greater caring for each other and are willing to do anything for the sake of one another.

Mamoru practically lives to protect Usagi - when he's got his mamory wiped, he subconciously creates a duplicate to do it - I can't imagine greater caring.

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