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 Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?

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Moonlight Lady
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 6:33 am

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
I don't know how you don't see it, Moonlight Lady, but it's there. And it's not endearing in any sort of way, either. It's disappointing. You may love them a lot, but also pay attention to those things; don't act like these things don't happen just because you love them to put them on this higher pedestal.

What's there and I don't see? That Usagi does for Mamoru more than vice versa? I don't think so - which I said why, given countless times he saved her.

Mamorusako is my absolute OTP of Sailor Moon, but it's not that I'm biased or something - Usagi sometimes behaves like teenage girl and Mamoru for example was in some scenes too convincing during the staged breakup - so I'm not saying they're perfect. But in Stars it's all past.

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
With Haruka and Michiru, they don't do that to each other.

This is why the argument of them not being shows it's double-edged - we don't see them in so many life-threatening situations, but we also don't see much of dealing with everyday problems as regular couples. And absolutely nothing determines that the first ones would outnumber the second, were they given more screen time.

With Usagi and Mamoru it's repeatedly proven that no matter what stuff will be put upon them, they will come of it with their love intact, only stronger.

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
I think the worst they do is try to make each other jealous, just for fun and to see just how much the other loves them. You may see that as like "cruel" or "wrong" or whatever, but it's just fun for them because people sometimes like that. They like seeing someone get worked up over the idea of someone stealing their other half away, because they love them. So they mess with each other a little bit. Not that they'd ever truly do anything like cheat, but they like to play. And there are couples that do this in real life too.

Yes, there are couples who do it and it may not wrong per se, but it's not personally in my taste. So this is another reason for me not to feel such connection with H&Mi. So many thanks, Lady Tuxedo, for bringing it;) up

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 6:50 am

Verdandi wrote:

one of the biggest reasons that I personally find HaruMichi more interesting than UsaMamo is simply because Usagi has sooo many more interesting friendships with other characters that I find just more intriguing than her relationship with Mamoru. Her interactions with Chibiusa, her bickering with Rei, her lovingness to all of her friends, I just find those things more interesting to read about.

In retrospect, with Haruka and Michiru, I'd rather read about them interacting with eachother than with anyone else.

Well, for me personally it's good when couple has other close people. I don't think that it in any way takes away from the mutual love - just the opposite, it enrichens a relationship. I don't think that Usagi loves Mamoru less, because she loves everybody.

I find H&Mi generally not very interesting. Mostly they serve for me as a contrast for Usagi and the Inners.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 9:33 am

Anjyu wrote:
I see Haruka and Usagi in no way being together! She's just teasing her in my opinion when she kisses her in the manga. Michiru and Haruka are weird like that. I mean Michiru has even flirt with Mamoru as well. I really think she's bi.
Yeah, but why does she tease her? Does she know something about Usagi that we don't? And apparently Ami thought Usagi was "that kind of girl" in one episode in the anime for some reason. ^^;;
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 9:49 am

Genesis - As we have seen Haruka enjoys teasing young girls (especially when the blush) 'cause it's fun. You can see how she laughs inside her mind when she sees the girls' reactions XD

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 10:48 am

This is still one of my favorite yurilicious scenes in the anime:
Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 11:16 am

Lol I certainly do remember that one XD

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 11:42 am

"Sorry, I thought Usagi-chan was that kind of girl!"

Oh Ami, I love you. <3

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 11:46 am

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Lady Tuxedo wrote:
I don't know how you don't see it, Moonlight Lady, but it's there. And it's not endearing in any sort of way, either. It's disappointing. You may love them a lot, but also pay attention to those things; don't act like these things don't happen just because you love them to put them on this higher pedestal.

What's there and I don't see? That Usagi does for Mamoru more than vice versa? I don't think so - which I said why, given countless times he saved her.

The thing you are missing in regard to Usagi and Mamoru is that Mamoru, in the anime, does seem embarrassed a lot by Usagi when they're together and prior to that, he was rather cold to her and just downright mean, as Jupi pointed out. There is a reason why she called him a jerk and the rudest guy. They're not new-age pet names or something.

When he is embarrassed by her, you can tell. Kind of like "why are you acting like that? especially in public? I don't know her, world. I really don't." That's not how boyfriends should act.

He does soften up, a little, but the point still remains; it's a little.

Again this is anime based XD

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 11:47 am

Verdandi - Do you remember she said the same about Mamoru in the R movie XD?

Also; no answers to my post Sad ?

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 11:58 am

Yes! Ami is awesome and so funny xD She must read a lot of interesting things. I've always wanted to be friends with Ami <3

As for Haruka's teasing, I think that it is fun for her to tease girls, but I've always felt it was a little different whenever it came to Usagi, because Usagi is their princess, and all of them love her in their own way. But I think that she and Michiru flirted with both Usagi and Mamoru mainly because they kind of wanted to test the bond between them. I dunno, maybe it's my own headcanon, but I really don't think the teasing and flirting was done for any reason other than to tease and test them.

Also, I don't think Michiru would ever want to be with anyone other than Haruka (Or Haruka AND Setsuna *cough* o.o Sorry, that's my fangirl side speaking)

My favorite scene of Haruka and Michiru of all time is probably the ending of 106 (I think?). The one where we find out about the past of the two of them, and you find out that Michiru wanted to go cruising with Haruka and felt like she wasn't really worth doing that.

And then! At the end, you see them driving together, the sun setting in the ocean horizon, and Haruka looks over at her with this little smile and tells Michiru that she is glad that they met.

SO SWEET! I love that scene so much. As heartbreakingly beautiful as their deaths in S and Stars are, it's those smaller scenes that I love the most.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 12:04 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Lady Tuxedo wrote:
I don't know how you don't see it, Moonlight Lady, but it's there. And it's not endearing in any sort of way, either. It's disappointing. You may love them a lot, but also pay attention to those things; don't act like these things don't happen just because you love them to put them on this higher pedestal.

What's there and I don't see? That Usagi does for Mamoru more than vice versa? I don't think so - which I said why, given countless times he saved her.

The thing you are missing in regard to Usagi and Mamoru is that Mamoru, in the anime, does seem embarrassed a lot by Usagi when they're together and prior to that, he was rather cold to her and just downright mean, as Jupi pointed out. There is a reason why she called him a jerk and the rudest guy. They're not new-age pet names or something.

When he is embarrassed by her, you can tell. Kind of like "why are you acting like that? especially in public? I don't know her, world. I really don't." That's not how boyfriends should act.

He does soften up, a little, but the point still remains; it's a little.

Again this is anime based XD

As I said, I don't see Mamoru as cold and mean except for the breakup, when he really must strain hmself to be so. And he acts similarly when she tells him to go to bed in 34, but a moment before that he was really sweet to her "The biggest jerk" line was clearly a flirt - look like she blushes and he smiles and thanks her.

And when he tells that he doesn't know her?

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 12:08 pm

Verdandi - So we have common thoughts Very Happy (not on the Setsuna part, though XD!) HaruMichi will always just love each other <3

I also think they wanted to test Usagi and Mamoru so that Naoko can write how they make up XD

OMG that scene is one of my very favorites It was just so sweet and warm and kind and lovely and cute and awesome and... everything ! Yeah I know I went crazy Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 12:08 pm

Just wanted to throw in here to try not to derail too much from the topic, guys Wink you're always welcome to open new threads, debates/theories or otherwise and I'm sure we'd all flock to it.

@Moonlight Lady: I can understand that and I do know that he loves and adores her but there are times where I question how he's being towards her, which again, isn't very boyfriend-y sometimes.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 12:11 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
@Moonlight Lady: I can understand that and I do know that he loves and adores her but there are times where I question how he's being towards her, which again, isn't very boyfriend-y sometimes.

Could you give me some examples? Not counting breakup or branwashing periods?

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 12:25 pm

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
Verdandi - So we have common thoughts Very Happy (not on the Setsuna part, though XD!) HaruMichi will always just love each other <3

I don't really ship them, not seriously xD But I always enjoy a well written fanfic featuring them all together haha! (not that they're common at all)

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Lady Tuxedo wrote:
@Moonlight Lady: I can understand that and I do know that he loves and adores her but there are times where I question how he's being towards her, which again, isn't very boyfriend-y sometimes.

Could you give me some examples? Not counting breakup or branwashing periods?

There are a couple of times where Mamoru seems to not be paying much attention to Usagi. One scene that comes to mind instantly is in the S movie, where Usagi is trying to tell Mamoru about her worries for Luna, and he is sitting there reading a book and not paying much attention so Usagi pulls on his arm to make him pay attention to her. I thought that was rude, and never liked that scene at all. Negative points to you Mamoru!

Another one that I can remember is in S as well, in the anime though, the first ep of that season I believe. Where Usagi is sad about a low test score she got, and is worried about Mamoru seeing it, and he comes around the corner and she is all embarrassed about the score. And Mamoru has this disapproving look on his face, and it just has always seemed cold to me. I mean, I do get that school is important, but he could have handled it a lot better than to say "well you go study, and by the way, we shouldn't go on dates for a while."

There are others, but those are the first two that came into mind at the moment.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 9:20 pm

So somethign just came to mind which could explain Mamoru's anime behavior. A lot of things Usagi does in public is considered VERY embarrassing and even kinda rude for the Japanese people. Also public display of affections = no no. So I think thats why he acts cold to her IN PUBLIC because thats kinda how...a lot of normal Japanese act. I think its possible he is portraying the normal (though exaggerated because this is for entertainment and a lot of the scenes with mamoru being embarassed by usagi are meant to be humorous) way a Japanese male would act if he had a girlfriend act the way Usagi does.

I mean, really if you think about it, here in America its a bit more ok to be loud and obnoxious in public (though not that much because i mean really...stop being stupid in public), but its a pretty big no no in Japan, depending on the area. I think some of you just don't take some of Japan's cultural differences into affect when it comes to how Usagi and Mamoru in PUBLIC.

The reason the manga has way better and warmer scens between them, in case you havne't noticed, several of their more romantic or endearing scenes are NOT in public. They are often in mamoru's apartment, or being trapped in a dream world, etc. The manga has a lot less everyday life type scenes (they are really few and far between, not including some of the side story shorts). Also the Usagi of the manga is a bit more mature than the usagi in the anime. I would imagine if Usagi acted the way she does in the anime in the manga, we might see similar reactions from Mamoru.

I mean, my bf gets annoyed with me if he deems me being inappropriate in public. Thats just how some couples are and doesn't demean their relationship anymore.

Anyway, this is my last post in this topic ever because its kinda pointless debating it because we've all brought up good points and are still going around in circles at times.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 9:22 pm

lol but I like your input, Brit! Thanks for that.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 9:26 pm

Lol that last part may have sounded kinda mean. I meant like...i just don't see any point debating it since we've all brought up the same points and are all in agreement on some things.


Someone should make that thread with the silly MichiruxHaruka daily life moments though. xD

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 9:28 pm

Go make it!

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 9:30 pm

But i wasn't the one making the stuffs up. o_o

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 9:30 pm

I made it! Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 10:08 pm

Umm sorry I kinda didn't see this post so Imma answer now!

[quote="Moonlight Lady"]
Sorry, but it's your opinion, not a fact - I can see many tragic and devastating episodes and scenes - and no, not only Mamorusako's. Many characters do have them.[/uote]

Gaah sorry I was so tired I didn't kinda notice what I didn't mention here: So The fact is that UsaMamo got more focus than HaruMichi (logically) but when it comes to the most devastating scenes it's only my opinion that HaruMichi have the most tragic ones. So sorry XD

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
It's not a question of selfishness - Mamoru did the right thing to ask Usagi's permission. If she cared about something as he about his studies, Mamoru would never stop her, too.

True but I think what disturbs me here is that even though Mamoru has some awesome anime moments they didn't make him as emotional as in the manga... This is just my opinion though but I think the animators didn't give him the honor to completely be who he truly is ... :/ Thank you very much animators .___.

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Which again doesn't make them very dedicated warriors.

So I already commented on this one in my earlier post to point out the meaning Michiru has behind her words Wink

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Mamoru practically lives to protect Usagi - when he's got his mamory wiped, he subconciously creates a duplicate to do it - I can't imagine greater caring.

And as for me when Haruka and Michiru said they can be burned in hell if they just have each other with them is one of the greatest proofs of love and caring. Both are very good examples


Brit- I agree with you Smile I just felt like still posting this cuz I sorta missed Moonlight's post XD

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   16th September 2012, 10:13 pm

This reminds me of that nickel back song far away.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   17th September 2012, 12:16 pm

Verdandi wrote:
There are a couple of times where Mamoru seems to not be paying much attention to Usagi. One scene that comes to mind instantly is in the S movie, where Usagi is trying to tell Mamoru about her worries for Luna, and he is sitting there reading a book and not paying much attention so Usagi pulls on his arm to make him pay attention to her. I thought that was rude, and never liked that scene at all. Negative points to you Mamoru!

Another one that I can remember is in S as well, in the anime though, the first ep of that season I believe. Where Usagi is sad about a low test score she got, and is worried about Mamoru seeing it, and he comes around the corner and she is all embarrassed about the score. And Mamoru has this disapproving look on his face, and it just has always seemed cold to me. I mean, I do get that school is important, but he could have handled it a lot better than to say "well you go study, and by the way, we shouldn't go on dates for a while."

There are others, but those are the first two that came into mind at the moment.

But Mamoru was paying attention to what Usagi was saying - his answer proves that he can keep track, while reading book - he got what Usagi was saying. He just doesn't agree with her and he expresses this. IMO his advice was sound.

And Usagi got very low score, it's not just that she failed but IIRC she completed like 15%? Mamoru didn't mock her or insults her, nor he expected from her such unattainable standards, because he wants intellectual girlfriend. He shows that he's involved in her problems.

I don't think that being a boyfriend requires putting her on pedestal.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   17th September 2012, 12:31 pm

I think he should be a little more supportive, is all. If my SO told me that we couldn't go on dates for a while for any reason I would be upset.

I guess part of my problem with that scene is that it always felt like Mamoru was kind of taking away his affection as a punishment for her doing so badly on a test. And I think that's wrong in any situation.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   17th September 2012, 12:34 pm

Small Lady wrote:
So somethign just came to mind which could explain Mamoru's anime behavior. A lot of things Usagi does in public is considered VERY embarrassing and even kinda rude for the Japanese people. Also public display of affections = no no. So I think thats why he acts cold to her IN PUBLIC because thats kinda how...a lot of normal Japanese act. I think its possible he is portraying the normal (though exaggerated because this is for entertainment and a lot of the scenes with mamoru being embarassed by usagi are meant to be humorous) way a Japanese male would act if he had a girlfriend act the way Usagi does.

I mean, really if you think about it, here in America its a bit more ok to be loud and obnoxious in public (though not that much because i mean really...stop being stupid in public), but its a pretty big no no in Japan, depending on the area. I think some of you just don't take some of Japan's cultural differences into affect when it comes to how Usagi and Mamoru in PUBLIC.

The reason the manga has way better and warmer scens between them, in case you havne't noticed, several of their more romantic or endearing scenes are NOT in public. They are often in mamoru's apartment, or being trapped in a dream world, etc. The manga has a lot less everyday life type scenes (they are really few and far between, not including some of the side story shorts). Also the Usagi of the manga is a bit more mature than the usagi in the anime. I would imagine if Usagi acted the way she does in the anime in the manga, we might see similar reactions from Mamoru.

I mean, my bf gets annoyed with me if he deems me being inappropriate in public. Thats just how some couples are and doesn't demean their relationship anymore.

Anyway, this is my last post in this topic ever because its kinda pointless debating it because we've all brought up good points and are still going around in circles at times.

Don't go away, pleeaaase. Sad You're just brilliant.

Yes, anime Usagi is different (but she's also mostly younger than in manga, as anime's time is more compressed).

Mamoru is sometimes overwhelmed by Usagi's behaviour, but he generally is calm and patient, without expressing annoyance or pretending that he doesn't know her (especially when she got drunk in party - he wasn't angry). Also, I would like to point out that Usagi's friends are usually on Mamoru's side during these moments, only more reproachful, especially Rei.

Though anime would really be better with more their scenes in private - although we get hints thay happen off screen.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   17th September 2012, 4:28 pm

Verdandi wrote:
I think he should be a little more supportive, is all. If my SO told me that we couldn't go on dates for a while for any reason I would be upset.

I guess part of my problem with that scene is that it always felt like Mamoru was kind of taking away his affection as a punishment for her doing so badly on a test. And I think that's wrong in any situation.
It also makes Mamoru look like he's treating Usagi like a child. Of course, this is also the fault of the anime making Usagi a lot dumber than she was in the manga.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   18th September 2012, 12:17 pm

Verdandi wrote:
I think he should be a little more supportive, is all. If my SO told me that we couldn't go on dates for a while for any reason I would be upset.

I guess part of my problem with that scene is that it always felt like Mamoru was kind of taking away his affection as a punishment for her doing so badly on a test. And I think that's wrong in any situation.

I rewatched this particular scene and firstly, I misremembered - Usagi got only 5% on that test. And IMO Mamoru was supportive. It is not that lack of dates is punishment for her - he would also miss them, which he admits. It's that sometimes duty is more important. Therefore I don't see that he treats her like a child - he treats her like a responsible adult. IMO it would be more treating her like a child if he started consoling her in excessive way.

Not to mention that he later tutors the girls, so his support is in fact tangible.

And they go together to see cats in the next episode, so the strike wasn't long Wink

(Futhermore, I always believed that this scene was meant as a recollection of their first meeting.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   18th September 2012, 12:33 pm

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
True but I think what disturbs me here is that even though Mamoru has some awesome anime moments they didn't make him as emotional as in the manga...

In what way emotional? He's generally reserved, calm, silent guy (with exceptions).


Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:

And as for me when Haruka and Michiru said they can be burned in hell if they just have each other with them is one of the greatest proofs of love and caring.

But why should one wish his or her beloved to be burned in hell? Wouldn't having him/her with you actually add greatly to your suffering?

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   18th September 2012, 4:04 pm

Haruka and Michiru weren't wishing for their beloved to be burned in hell. They were saying that not even the fires of hell could tear them apart from each other. By the way, why do we always refer to them as Haruka and Michiru and not as Michiru and Haruka?
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