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 Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   30th August 2012, 4:09 pm

I had read before that Kunihiko Ikuraha had originally intended for the plot of the Utena movie to be the plot of the Supers movie except it was going to be focused on Haruka and Michiru instead of Utena and Anthy. Considering how explicit the lesbian themes were in the Utena movie, it's a shame they didn't go through with Ikuhara's idea because it could have been the greatest anime movie of all time if they went with his idea.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   30th August 2012, 4:37 pm

What? What is all of this? o_o esplain.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   30th August 2012, 8:38 pm

From the great Oracle of Delphi, Wikipedia
Quote :
Originally, Kunihiko Ikuhara envisaged that Sailor Uranus and Sailor Neptune were going to be the main characters in the Super S
film, and it was going to be independent of the main series. Sailor
Neptune was going to be in a deep sleep at the end of the world, and
Sailor Uranus would have had to steal the talismans from the Sailor
Senshi to revive her. However, both Ikuhara and producer Iriya Azuma
left the series. Ikuhara's concepts were later used in Revolutionary Girl Utena.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   30th August 2012, 10:05 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
Usagi and Mamoru is very stereotypical.

word ....... BUT i can't decide who i ship more, they are both interesting in they own way.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   31st August 2012, 11:19 am

Why do you see Usagi and Mamoru's relationship is stereotypical?

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
I'm quoting Tuxie again ! Awesome points Neon Genesis!

UsaMamo fans please don't kill me when I say this:

The trust Haruka and Michiru is limitless and so is their love. Their trust is even more than just trust; they know what the other thinks without telling it. They understand each other completely without a single word.

Spoiler:
 

Many of Mamorusako fans, me included, also don't need all things to make us know it about Mamoru and Usagi.

And as for trust - personally I have never seen elsewhere such an absolute trust as Mamoru has in Usagi.


Miki wrote:
Yup, I agree, Haruka and Michiru are most definitely in a relationship post S but its a bit murky during the actual season. So *shrugs* I can see their relationship as strong, but I can't see it as any stronger than Usa and Mamoru, simply because we don't see what goes on very much when they're alone together, which is where it really counts, rather than their public image that they show off.

ITA.

And the idea, that Haruka and Michiru got formal post S would indeed explain the change in the tone of their interactions in Stars.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   31st August 2012, 12:14 pm

I think what Tsuki meant on "they don't need a hint of their previous lives" was talking about Haruka and Michiru not needing any hints, not the fans Razz

Trust. Ah yes. Well trust is displayed between these two couples in completely different ways. I think what draws people in to Haruka and Michiru, regardless of the not very expanded upon relationship is the way they talk. The way they talk to each other and their need/desire to be close to one another, even in death, is what does it. It shows the trust. Like Tsuki mentioned:

"Their trust is even more than just trust; they know what the other thinks without telling it. They understand each other completely without a single word."

Yes. And

"Even though we don't have many romantic moments of Haruka and Michiru, for me their love is so much more powerful and deep than any others'. They're true soul mates for me and share everything with each other, life, fighting and death. When Haruka said she'd sell her soul to the devil if she could just be with Michiru and when Michiru said she can endure everything if she just have Haruka with her, even being burned by the flames of hell were two most romantic and sweet scenes in the whole series."

Yes again. I haven't seen anything like that with Usagi and Mamoru. Yes, they are obviously soul mates, but so are Haruka and Michiru and I feel their relationship is portrayed as more soul mate-y than Usagi and Mamoru's. I've never seen Usagi and Mamoru say anything that powerful like Haruka and Michiru.

The way Haruka and Michiru's relationship is portrayed makes me love them that much more. And, I've read several times over, their voice actors were instructed to talk as if Haruka and Michiru were married...so that helps XD

As for stereotypical of Usagi and Mamoru...I'm not gonna lie. A piece of it is always the female/male thing. The ditzy, cute, silly girl gets the hot, mysterious guy. I find that to be the "thing" these days in young adult reads in regards to the main characters. They're just portrayed as in a sense like Romeo and Juliet; star crossed lovers. There is also no real twists on their relationships. No conflicts. I mean I really liked how Haruka seemed to express interest in Usagi and Michiru in Mamoru - even if just messing around. And I like how in Stars, yes, Seiya had an interest in Usagi and vice versa. It gives their relationship more dynamics, since it made their relationship more believable.

Another thing that doesn't do it for me, is how Usagi and Mamoru's personalities aren't really the same. My personal belief is that "opposites attract" is complete BS. More often than not, it doesn't work out with people that have differing personalities (that's where my reasoning for Usagi x Seiya comes in, but that's a different topic). I'm not saying opposites never work out, but it definitely isn't very often. The only "opposite" is the gender that really attracts, and even then, that's not always the case (i.e. homosexuality). Usagi and Mamoru share the same goal of like wanting to protect the earth together and all that, but personality wise, they are not the same. Look at Usagi. Ditzy, cute, sweet, lazy, etc. Look at Mamoru. Serious, mysterious, reserved, etc. In the real world, any relationship like that usually doesn't last.

Don't get me wrong, I love Usagi and Mamoru, but they just lack...what Haruka and Michiru have (or Usagi and Seiya could have).

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   31st August 2012, 2:17 pm

How I enjoy reading your posts Tuxie. You have the exact same opinions as me.

Haruka and Michiru are both determined, intelligent, strong, honest, elegant, mature and have their own warm and sensitive sides only the other one can see and feel. They support each other in a complete different way than Usagi and Mamoru. While Usagi tries to be more mature and serious with Mamoru her real personality doesn't really show off. She's not the same clumsy and funny herself with him because she kind of tries to fit in Mamoru's image.

Michiru and Haruka can never trust other people completely but are ALWAYS honest to each other and to their own feelings. They have their own world where they live when being together, their two worlds blending together creating the world only they can be in. When together, they are their real selves who they never truly can be when there are other people near them since they're one with each other. Supporting one another they share all their thoughts with each other. That's the difference between UsaMamo and HaruMichi.

While Usagi's trying to be mature and serious with Mamoru, avoiding her real nature Haruka and Michiru are ALWAYS their real selves and completely honest to their own feelings when together. They're like halves of one another, always following and loving each other more than life or world itself.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   31st August 2012, 3:38 pm

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
How I enjoy reading your posts Tuxie. You have the exact same opinions as me.

Haruka and Michiru are both determined, intelligent, strong, honest, elegant, mature and have their own warm and sensitive sides only the other one can see and feel. They support each other in a complete different way than Usagi and Mamoru. While Usagi tries to be more mature and serious with Mamoru her real personality doesn't really show off. She's not the same clumsy and funny herself with him because she kind of tries to fit in Mamoru's image.

Michiru and Haruka can never trust other people completely but are ALWAYS honest to each other and to their own feelings. They have their own world where they live when being together, their two worlds blending together creating the world only they can be in. When together, they are their real selves who they never truly can be when there are other people near them since they're one with each other. Supporting one another they share all their thoughts with each other. That's the difference between UsaMamo and HaruMichi.

While Usagi's trying to be mature and serious with Mamoru, avoiding her real nature Haruka and Michiru are ALWAYS their real selves and completely honest to their own feelings when together. They're like halves of one another, always following and loving each other more than life or world itself.

Yes. Exactly.

I think we should be forum besties. Just sayin

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   31st August 2012, 3:43 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
How I enjoy reading your posts Tuxie. You have the exact same opinions as me.

Haruka and Michiru are both determined, intelligent, strong, honest, elegant, mature and have their own warm and sensitive sides only the other one can see and feel. They support each other in a complete different way than Usagi and Mamoru. While Usagi tries to be more mature and serious with Mamoru her real personality doesn't really show off. She's not the same clumsy and funny herself with him because she kind of tries to fit in Mamoru's image.

Michiru and Haruka can never trust other people completely but are ALWAYS honest to each other and to their own feelings. They have their own world where they live when being together, their two worlds blending together creating the world only they can be in. When together, they are their real selves who they never truly can be when there are other people near them since they're one with each other. Supporting one another they share all their thoughts with each other. That's the difference between UsaMamo and HaruMichi.

While Usagi's trying to be mature and serious with Mamoru, avoiding her real nature Haruka and Michiru are ALWAYS their real selves and completely honest to their own feelings when together. They're like halves of one another, always following and loving each other more than life or world itself.

Yes. Exactly.

I think we should be forum besties. Just sayin

We definitely should (I also ship Seiya and Usagi over Mamoru and Usagi)

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   31st August 2012, 3:49 pm




Ahem. XD I'll get back on topic now. But I don't have anything to add yet. Waiting for the response to our posts for Usagi and Mamoru.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   31st August 2012, 3:53 pm

This is a really hard choice for me xD I love both couples for completely different reasons. There are many dynamics between both couples that make them beautiful. But if I had to choose one as my favorite, it would probably be Michiru and Haruka, simply for the fact that I love the fact that they would sacrifice anything to be with one another, while I believe Usagi is more heartful and would never sacrifice anyone. I think it's a special kind of bond to be able to give up *everything* to be with that one person, and damn the consequences. It makes things so interesting to read about and makes me seek out fics/art with these two more than Usagi/Mamoru.

But although I believe Usagi would never have that kind of conviction to sacrifice anyone to have Mamoru, I don't think that makes her relationship with Mamoru any less meaningful. They just have a different way of going about things xD (like saving/fixing the world in a blinding glow of light)

Also, I don't really believe that Usagi changes who she is to be with Mamoru. She is always just as silly and cute as she always is (like around her friends/etc). I mean, she is always pulling on him and fighting with Chibiusa over his attention. I guess she does seem to calm down a little bit when she is alone with Mamoru, but to be fair, Mamoru changes when it is just the two of them too. He smiles more easily and seems more comfortable, and his barriers seem to come down to allow his Usako in. I dunno. I think they are just as cute as Michiru/Haruka, but in a different way =]

(Sorry for the rambles xD)

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   31st August 2012, 3:55 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:



Ahem. XD I'll get back on topic now. But I don't have anything to add yet. Waiting for the response to our posts for Usagi and Mamoru.

(More off topic posts XD)

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   31st August 2012, 5:30 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:


Yes again. I haven't seen anything like that with Usagi and Mamoru. Yes, they are obviously soul mates, but so are Haruka and Michiru and I feel their relationship is portrayed as more soul mate-y than Usagi and Mamoru's. I've never seen Usagi and Mamoru say anything that powerful like Haruka and Michiru.
In fairness to Usagi and Mamoru, there's the scene in the manga where
Spoiler:
 
which I think is still one of the saddest moments in the manga.



Quote :
As for stereotypical of Usagi and Mamoru...I'm not gonna lie. A piece of it is always the female/male thing. The ditzy, cute, silly girl gets the hot, mysterious guy. I find that to be the "thing" these days in young adult reads in regards to the main characters. They're just portrayed as in a sense like Romeo and Juliet; star crossed lovers. There is also no real twists on their relationships. No conflicts. I mean I really liked how Haruka seemed to express interest in Usagi and Michiru in Mamoru - even if just messing around. And I like how in Stars, yes, Seiya had an interest in Usagi and vice versa. It gives their relationship more dynamics, since it made their relationship more believable.

To say something positive about Usagi and Mamoru, I actually quite liked the star crossed lovers theme of the manga. In the anime, they always made it seem like the only reason Usagi and Mamoru were together was because of destiny whereas in the manga destiny seems to keep trying to pull them apart and Usagi and Mamoru try so hard and desperately to fight against their fate so they can be together regardless of the consequences and I do like that kind of desperate heart-breaking love they have for each other in the manga.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   31st August 2012, 6:02 pm

Yeah...I can understand the desperate heart-breaking love thing. Cause that really does happen sometimes to people and it sucks. I guess that's what divides the anime and manga, too.

I still hold out though Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   31st August 2012, 6:36 pm

To be respectfully frank, I think it's pretty hard to compare the two. The relationship dynamic between the two ships are completely different, not only in that one is between two women. Not to mention, they're both the only really "official" and canonical ships in SM. I don't think I'd be able to choose one or the other because they're both really unique and lovable in their own ways!

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   31st August 2012, 10:12 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
Yeah...I can understand the desperate heart-breaking love thing. Cause that really does happen sometimes to people and it sucks. I guess that's what divides the anime and manga, too.

I still hold out though Razz

Same with me.

What truly broke my heart into pieces and always makes me cry was the moment in the anime when Haruka and Michiru touched each other's hands the very last time and faded away... With the last strength they had left they held hands and died together. When Michiru said she's scared and then held Haruka's hand saying 'I can see the light' and Haruka touching Michiru saying 'You're warm, Michiru...' when they faded away was so devastating and sad it's hard for me to even write about it. They were scared and dying but all their fears faded away when they touched each other. They smiled the last time they looked into each other's eyes and slowly died together knowing that the other wouldn't never leave from the other's side.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   31st August 2012, 10:15 pm

Tsuki I knew you would be all over this thread!

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   31st August 2012, 10:18 pm

Anjyu wrote:
Tsuki I knew you would be all over this thread!

Why of course Wink ! I love to discuss about them and spread my HaruMichi love<3 (Could you as a senior member dub me as the official HaruMichitic of the forums? Weird question, I know XD )

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   31st August 2012, 10:19 pm

Sure I dubbed Selene as the lunatic of the forums XD

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   31st August 2012, 10:20 pm

I would also love to do your lotus whenever you become eligible!

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   31st August 2012, 10:25 pm

Anjyu wrote:
Sure I dubbed Selene as the lunatic of the forums XD

Woot I'll go and change my title a little bit !

Anjyu wrote:
I would also love to do your lotus whenever you become eligible!

Thank you sweetheart <3 Still one month to go, tough ;___;

NO MORE OFF TOPIC POSTS FROM ME. end

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   1st September 2012, 2:27 am

Luna and Artemis are also official canon couple - why everybody forgets them Cool ?

And I really don't get the idea that Usagi and Mamoru are together because of destiny confused They really proved, especially in season R, that it isn't the case.

And Usagi in S had a brief belief to become a perfect princess for Mamoru - but he managed to show her it's unnecessary. In SuperS she is totally over that notion. Yes, she becomes a little more serious and mature, as Mamoru becomes more affectionate and kind, but it's not forcing themselves to be different, but rather being naturally changed by love, which enables growth in s person.

And I don't see H&Mi as more similar than Ma&U. Haraka is choleric, quick-tempered and forceful, while Michiru is serene, calm and quieter. They share goals and values, but so does Mamoru and Usagi. In facr there is similar pattern.

Haruka and Michiru's relationship seems good and strong for me, but there was not enough daily interactions for me to see the core of it.

And as for their death in Stars - while their holding hands was moving, in general I didn't find it romantic. IMO, their actions were really wrong and I'm glad they got a lesson.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   1st September 2012, 6:35 pm

:O! Shame! Shame shame shame on you! It was very romantic! And what they did was out of being desperate! They didn't know what else to do, so they took an extreme. They know not everything can be ideally fixed like Usagi hopes/wants (it just ends up being how she wants cause she's the star and what Naoko says, goes).

Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   1st September 2012, 7:19 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
:O! Shame! Shame shame shame on you! It was very romantic! And what they did was out of being desperate! They didn't know what else to do, so they took an extreme. They know not everything can be ideally fixed like Usagi hopes/wants (it just ends up being how she wants cause she's the star and what Naoko says, goes).

Sad

Well to be perfectly fair, the Haruka/Michiru villainy scene comes off alot better in myu (especially as they foreshadow it earlier) because in the anime its just so sudden and a bit forced and rushed, like most things in the Stars season and i think thats what takes away the romanticism of it being so over so quickly that youre like "wait what" and by the time you've accepted what just happens its already over. I can understand how it might not be viewed as romantic. I think they should have developed Haruka and Michiru's relationship a bit more in the Stars anime, rather than just throwaway references, because out of context, it could even look like Haruka and Michiru's relationship is purely sexual rather than romantic. (though i think if you think that, you've misunderstood the series XD) I think its just important to build up to it rather than going from zero to ten.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   1st September 2012, 8:09 pm

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Luna and Artemis are also official canon couple - why everybody forgets them Cool ?

And I really don't get the idea that Usagi and Mamoru are together because of destiny confused They really proved, especially in season R, that it isn't the case.
There's also Naru and Umino in the anime! Their relationship seems more motivated by destiny than romance because in the first season, Usagi only fell in love with Mamoru after their memories were awakened. There wasn't any build up to their relationship at all and even in the episode where their memories come back, Usagi and Mamoru were still fighting with each other. I think it was handled far better in PGSM and the manga where Usagi and Mamoru actually started developing feelings for each other before they found out about their past. But if their memories were never restored in the anime version, I somehow doubt they ever would have fallen in love. Even in the R season, destiny still seems to ultimately be on their side since Mamoru's visions of the future all ended up just being a test from King Endymion to test their love, which made no sense considering that since he's Mamoru's future self and he and Serenity still loved each other, then he already knows they would make it, but even then, the MOTDs always kept forcing Usagi and Mamoru together.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   1st September 2012, 8:42 pm

Shame on you!
@Moonlight Lady wrote:
And I don't see H&Mi as more similar than Ma&U. Haraka is choleric, quick-tempered and forceful, while Michiru is serene, calm and quieter. They share goals and values, but so does Mamoru and Usagi. In facr there is similar pattern.
Have you ever even seen the episode 106? When Haruka and Michiru are on the cruise and argue Michiru is at least choleric as Haruka. And I don't see Haruka more forceful than Michiru. They both decided to accept their destinies and fight together. They didn't want any victims but were both dedicated to do what they had to. In Stars 195 they both wanted Starlights to step away to protect the Earth. When you see them together alone you see who they truly are. And when Michiru first spoke to Ami she was the quick-tempered and choleric one, first challenging Ami and then not thinking what she said when made her feel bad in episode 97. She realized it when Ami ran away and made up with her later. Besides if Haruka wasn't calm she couldn't have managed to hold herself back when they searched Talismans nor when her life was put on line when Eudial was going to kill her. And I'm quoting myself saying that they are both mature, resolute, elegant, calm, talented, intelligent, dedicated to their mission and individuals who don't need anybody to tell them how they should act. And they're soul mates; in the depth of their hearts they're like one person, halves of one another. They share everything with each other.
@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Haruka and Michiru's relationship seems good and strong for me, but there was not enough daily interactions for me to see the core of it.
What if it was the same with Usagi and Mamoru? What if they hadn't had enough daily interactions? And as I've pointed out earlier Haruka's and Michiru's words and little actions (fighting back-to-back together like one person, looking into each other's eyes, holding hands, walking together etc.) show their real love. Real love doesn't need anything physical, it's seen and heard from their words and little interactions.
@Moonlight Lady wrote:
And as for their death in Stars - while their holding hands was moving,
in general I didn't find it romantic. IMO, their actions were really
wrong and I'm glad they got a lesson.
How don't you find it romantic when they said they could sacrifice the whole world for each other and even be burned in hell if they just were together? Holding their last breaths they were scared because they knew the world wouldn't apparently be saved, that most likely Sailor Moon would die and that they had failed in their mission which was the most important thing to them after each other. With the last strength they had left they focused on the thing which had always been the most important to both of them; each other. They didn't have power to sit up or move anymore but they forced themselves to gather the final strength of them to touch each other the very last time in their lives. They knew they'd go to hell since they had dirtied their hands with their friends' blood and were scared to death but when they held hands they felt the warmth of one another and all of their fears faded away, they were happy since they still had each other. Even though their world darkened and went blank and they had no hope left since they knew they'd go back to nothing they saw the light and hope when they touched each other. (I...I cried so much while I wrote this Sad;___; )
If that isn't romantic what is? *cries again*
@Moonlight Lady wrote:
IMO, their actions were really
wrong and I'm glad they got a lesson.
Have you even thought about this? Uranus and Neptune realized their own powers are nothing against Galaxia's and they couldn't win like that and that if they had Galaxia's own power they could pull her Star Seed out and kill her. So they had no choice if they wanted to save the world and they knew it wasn't right but was the only way. Pluto and Saturn realized this when those two attacked them being on Galaxia's side and gave up fighting, trusting and having faith in Haruka and Michiru, knowing that they'd continue fighting and didn't fight against them. They were desperate and had no other choice left. They had to give everything they had. And they knew if they failed Pluto's and Saturn's sacrifice would go in vain and that they would end up in hell. They were strong enough to make the decision which I don't think any other senshi would've been able to make.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   1st September 2012, 8:56 pm

i always wondered. They're in a separate dimension in Galaxia's world. Why didn't Pluto stop time and Saturn drop the glaive, if they were going to sacrifice themselves anyway? I mean its another dimension so that dimension would be destroyed not their own... (just as Pharaoh 90's was in S) or they could have done good ol' first series. LETS BLIND YOU WITH BUBBLES! *silver crystals the heck out of you*

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   1st September 2012, 9:05 pm

Miki wrote:
i always wondered. They're in a separate dimension in Galaxia's world. Why didn't Pluto stop time and Saturn drop the glaive, if they were going to sacrifice themselves anyway? I mean its another dimension so that dimension would be destroyed not their own... (just as Pharaoh 90's was in S) or they could have done good ol' first series. LETS BLIND YOU WITH BUBBLES! *silver crystals the heck out of you*

I think it's because Usagi and the Starlights were there and because Galaxia broke Saturn's Glaive and Pluto's Garnet Rod before they had time to do anything.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   1st September 2012, 9:09 pm

well actually they didnt because Saturn was too busy listening to Galaxia. i also always thought Uranus and Neptune should have gotten animamate-esque names...

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   2nd September 2012, 5:08 am

@Neon Genesis wrote:
@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Luna and Artemis are also official canon couple - why everybody forgets them Cool ?

And I really don't get the idea that Usagi and Mamoru are together because of destiny confused They really proved, especially in season R, that it isn't the case.
There's also Naru and Umino in the anime! Their relationship seems more motivated by destiny than romance because in the first season, Usagi only fell in love with Mamoru after their memories were awakened. There wasn't any build up to their relationship at all and even in the episode where their memories come back, Usagi and Mamoru were still fighting with each other. I think it was handled far better in PGSM and the manga where Usagi and Mamoru actually started developing feelings for each other before they found out about their past. But if their memories were never restored in the anime version, I somehow doubt they ever would have fallen in love. Even in the R season, destiny still seems to ultimately be on their side since Mamoru's visions of the future all ended up just being a test from King Endymion to test their love, which made no sense considering that since he's Mamoru's future self and he and Serenity still loved each other, then he already knows they would make it, but even then, the MOTDs always kept forcing Usagi and Mamoru together.

confused Shocked No build up???

I'm dead now Shocked ... In my last words:

"Usagi only fell in love with Mamoru after their memories were awakened. "

No.

It's the very opposite - their memories were awakened only after Usagi fell in love with Mamoru, which recreated Silver Crystal, which made them remember past lives.
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