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 Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   2nd September 2012, 5:25 am

So when exactly did Usagi start to fall in love with Mamoru in the anime? The closest one could come up with is Usagi followed Mamoru to the Crystal Tower thing when she saw he was wounded but that was more out of pity and concern than romantic feelings and even then they were still bickering with each other right up to the point where Zoicite attacked them in the elevator. Usagi only realized her feelings after her memories came back and the Silver Crystal was formed. Up until then, it was only Tuxedo Mask and not Mamoru as a person that Usagi cared about.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   2nd September 2012, 6:41 am

No, the ordesr is as follows:

1. Mamoru is wounded.

2. Usagi falls in love.

3. Silver Cristal is restored.

4. Usagi transforms into Moon Princess.

5. Their memories come back.

And why disregard Tuxedo Mask? In manga, when Usagi falls for Mamoru, she knows she is Tuxedo Mask.

And she started falling - much before IMO...

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   2nd September 2012, 7:11 am

I think in a lot of the anime episodes, you can definitely see the attraction between Mamoru and Usagi. I mean, she never comes out and says it outright, but I think it's clear that she is attracted to him, and he to her. All of the teasing was their way of flirting, and it was really cute too. Just because they don't announce it to the world, you kind of have to look between the lines, and take in all of their looks at each other, how they act with one another.

As for Usagi's infatuation with Tuxedo Kamen, I always thought that was a lot of hero worship. Here is this neat guy who comes and saves her a lot, and he has a way with words (hah!), that it's no wonder she was crushing on him. She wasn't the only one to do so, either.

But no one else really had a sort of connection with Mamoru, not like Usagi did. One of my favorite episodes that really shows this is the episode with the painter lady who asks them to model for her (don't remember the number of the episode). You can see Mamoru just staring at Usagi for a little while, and Usagi acting all silly because she admits to finding Mamoru handsome, but is worried that Rei will be mad at her for such thoughts. (Which is another reason why I think Usagi pushed away her feelings for Mamoru, because Rei was "dating" him for a while).

Sorry for the Usagi/Mamoru rant. I think they are a fascinating couple, and I always dislike it when people say that they are just together because of destiny or because of their past. If you watch the anime, you can definitely see that they start to like eachother far before destiny ever plays a part in it.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   2nd September 2012, 10:06 am

Cheers Verdandi, can I hug you?

Yes, in that episode their mutual attraction can be observed - and IMO Yumeni Yumeno sees it.

Futhermore, in this episode it becomes evident, that Usagi also likes arguing with Mamoru (because in him it was clear earlier)

@Neon Genesis wrote:
So when exactly did Usagi start to fall in love with Mamoru in the anime? The closest one could come up with is Usagi followed Mamoru to the Crystal Tower thing when she saw he was wounded but that was more out of pity and concern than romantic feelings and even then they were still bickering with each other right up to the point where Zoicite attacked them in the elevator.


When did they bicker in the elevator? He told her about his parents, his dreams and search for Silver Crystal (wasn't it earlier mentioned how Mamoru and Usagi don't share everything, unlike H&Mi?) and she was deeply affected by it - there is call back to that scene in the final episode, during Mamoru's purification.

And at first she could follow him out of pity and concern, but after he brutally tells her to leave him alone, it would be quite unbelievable.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   2nd September 2012, 10:35 am

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
Shame on you!
@Moonlight Lady wrote:
And I don't see H&Mi as more similar than Ma&U. Haraka is choleric, quick-tempered and forceful, while Michiru is serene, calm and quieter. They share goals and values, but so does Mamoru and Usagi. In facr there is similar pattern.
Have you ever even seen the episode 106? When Haruka and Michiru are on the cruise and argue Michiru is at least choleric as Haruka. And I don't see Haruka more forceful than Michiru. They both decided to accept their destinies and fight together. They didn't want any victims but were both dedicated to do what they had to. In Stars 195 they both wanted Starlights to step away to protect the Earth. When you see them together alone you see who they truly are. And when Michiru first spoke to Ami she was the quick-tempered and choleric one, first challenging Ami and then not thinking what she said when made her feel bad in episode 97. She realized it when Ami ran away and made up with her later. Besides if Haruka wasn't calm she couldn't have managed to hold herself back when they searched Talismans nor when her life was put on line when Eudial was going to kill her. And I'm quoting myself saying that they are both mature, resolute, elegant, calm, talented, intelligent, dedicated to their mission and individuals who don't need anybody to tell them how they should act. And they're soul mates; in the depth of their hearts they're like one person, halves of one another. They share everything with each other.

In episode 106 we learn that Michiru admired Haruka from afar for the long time, but did nothing and she needed a mutual aquaintance to introduce herself. This does not seem for me like a forceful personality. And her argument did nothing to convince Haruka, only her sacrifice did.

Michiru even during argument remains calm and Haruka must restrain herself to remain it.

And I don't mean it against their couple - being with identical person would be like being with yourself Very Happy

Determined and dedicated they both are, but so is the rest of the cast and vast majority of any anime Very Happy

Mature? Depends of definition - but indeed level of maturity have the same...

Share everything? But they talk mostly about their mission, from what we see. From interactions besides that I remember conversation, how Haruka is not jealous, which was cute - but little...
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   2nd September 2012, 11:59 am

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
What if it was the same with Usagi and Mamoru? What if they hadn't had enough daily interactions? And as I've pointed out earlier Haruka's and Michiru's words and little actions (fighting back-to-back together like one person, looking into each other's eyes, holding hands, walking together etc.) show their real love. Real love doesn't need anything physical, it's seen and heard from their words and little interactions.

I am not really talking about anything physical - which in Mamoru&Usagi's relationship sadly also isn't seen much "on camera". I mean everyday stuff - like shopping, going to dentist, learning, helping friends - without that, their relationship would seem less complete.


Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
Have you even thought about this? Uranus and Neptune realized their own powers are nothing against Galaxia's and they couldn't win like that and that if they had Galaxia's own power they could pull her Star Seed out and kill her. So they had no choice if they wanted to save the world and they knew it wasn't right but was the only way. Pluto and Saturn realized this and gave up fighting, trusting and having faith in Haruka and Michiru, knowing that they'd continue fighting and didn't fight against them. They were desperate and had no other choice left. They had to give everything they had. And they knew if they failed Pluto's and Saturn's sacrifice would go in vain and that they would end up in hell. They were strong enough to make the decision which I don't think any other senshi would've been able to make.

It wasn't the only way, because it didn't work. And Usagi's choice not to fight proved to be the right one-not only Galaxia stopped being a threat, but also Star Seeds were to be returned.

And my problem with Uranus and Neptune attitude didn't stem for their staged betrayal, but started in S and continued in Stars, especially with treatment of Starlights - their egos got really swollen (another similar common trait of them ). They really needed a lesson and I'm sure it will turn out for good.

And I'm not really convinced that it was planned beforehand with Pluto and Saturn - but doesn't this theory negate the idea of perfect understanding between H&Mi?
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   2nd September 2012, 12:07 pm

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
And my problem with Uranus and Neptune attitude didn't stem for their staged betrayal, but started in S and continued in Stars, especially with treatment of Starlights - their egos got really swollen (another similar common trait of them ). They really needed a lesson and I'm sure it will turn out for good.

And I'm not really convinced that it was planned beforehand with Pluto and Saturn - but doesn't this theory negate the idea of perfect understanding between H&Mi?

I'm not sure that's quite a way to give someone a lesson. I don't think Haruka or Michiru have huge egos, I think they are mostly just single-minded in that, they do anything and everything to achieve their goals no matter what they have to do. In that case, they wanted to try one last thing in order to stop Galaxia and they had to do what they thought they must. They're great characters, even if they are much different from the way Usagi works :3

I've never believed the "betrayal" thing was planned beforehand, I don't think they would have ever thought to themselves "Okay, when we get in there, Michiru and I will give in to Galaxia, and welp, we'll have to kill you, sorry." But I *do* think that Pluto and Saturn realized what was going on right before they closed their eyes and accepted what was happening. Michiru and Haruka tell them "You know why, this is how we fight", which I think was a huge hint to the only two people who would understand their tactics. Also, immediately after, there's a scene with Neptune attacking Pluto and Uranus attacking Saturn where it shows a close up their eyes, and you can kind of see that Pluto and Saturn realize that something else is going on.

Sorry, off topic, but I just wanted to throw my two cents in there. I love every character in this series so much :3

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   2nd September 2012, 12:16 pm

I'd just like to point out that not every decision Usagi makes is the "right one". This has been demonstrated before. The only reason things "wrap up nicely" if you will, is because she is Usagi and that's how the story goes.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   2nd September 2012, 1:17 pm

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
No, the ordesr is as follows:

1. Mamoru is wounded.

2. Usagi falls in love.

3. Silver Cristal is restored.

4. Usagi transforms into Moon Princess.

5. Their memories come back.

And why disregard Tuxedo Mask? In manga, when Usagi falls for Mamoru, she knows she is Tuxedo Mask.

And she started falling - much before IMO...
Usagi felt sympathy for Mamoru being wounded. Mamoru told Usagi about his childhood and visions and Usagi just says she's bumped him down to being the number two worst guy in the world. Then Zoicite attacks Mamoru, the Silver Crystal appears, they get their memories back, and all of a sudden Usagi is infatuated with Mamoru and they believe in the power of love and whatnot. In the anime version, Usagi didn't know Mamoru was Tuxedo Mask until they found out about their past lives. Up until then, she always considered Mamoru and Tuxedo Mask to be two different people.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   2nd September 2012, 2:01 pm

@Moonlight Lady wrote:

In episode 106 we learn that Michiru admired Haruka from afar for the long time, but did nothing and she needed a mutual aquaintance to introduce herself. This does not seem for me like a forceful personality. And her argument did nothing to convince Haruka, only her sacrifice did.
Michiru even during argument remains calm and Haruka must restrain herself to remain it.
And I don't mean it against their couple - being with identical person would be like being with yourself Very Happy
Determined and dedicated they both are, but so is the rest of the cast and vast majority of any anime Very Happy
Mature? Depends of definition - but indeed level of maturity have the same...
Share everything? But they talk mostly about their mission, from what we see. From interactions besides that I remember conversation, how Haruka is not jealous, which was cute - but little...

But meeting the first time face to face with Haruka Michiru went straight to the point when she asked Haruka if she couldn't hear the wind rustling, hinting that she knew who Haruka was and that they shared the same mission. And then she asked Haruka to come to the cruise where she had a performance in order to speak with her right after they met. And I never said her argument with Haruka convinced her... And you can see that Michiru had to restrain herself too. She gripped her dress, closed her eyes and spoke biting her lip, saying that Haruka was unfair and then loudening her voice to say that she can't do something stupid like saving the world from destruction.

Like I've said before they're very much alike and like halves of one another hence like one complete person when together, just like real soul mates are Very Happy

And I see Haruka and Michiru as the most determined of any senshi or character of Sailor Moon story since they were the only ones who were ready to use whatever methods they had to to accomplish their mission, even sacrificing others' lives with their own ones in order to save the world.

And being mature I mean compared to others of their age. They know the life and world better and have seen the darkest sides of it, hence they've almost become adults living their lives full of darkness and fighting, having the only light beside them, each other.

Sharing everything I meant they share their mission, opinions, feelings, hates, love, trust, goals, lives, fighting and determination, living and fighting together as one. And since the battle is the main theme we usually hear them speaking about it. They flirt and joke around with each other perfectly aware what the other one thinks.
@Moonlight Lady wrote:
I am not really talking about anything physical - which in Mamoru&Usagi's relationship sadly also isn't seen much "on camera". I mean everyday stuff - like shopping, going to dentist, learning, helping friends - without that, their relationship would seem less complete.
You know we often see them shopping or walking at some park (like the well-known loves' park) and just talking and being together, very often on the swimming pool where Michiru likes to spend her time, cruising along the beach, being on a vacation together and you barely never see them alone with the other one so I think it's the same thing. Besides Usagi is the main character so of course her relationship with Mamoru got the most of the romantic screen time the animators fitted in the series... And Haruka and Michiru appear only in Super and Stars while Mamoru and Usagi got their time in all seasons. It's a shame the animators didn't put Michiru and Haruka in more ;____;...
@Moonlight Lady wrote:
It wasn't the only way, because it didn't work. And Usagi's choice not to fight proved to be the right one-not only Galaxia stopped being a threat, but also Star Seeds were to be returned.
And my problem with Uranus and Neptune attitude didn't stem for their staged betrayal, but started in S and continued in Stars, especially with treatment of Starlights - their egos got really swollen (another similar common trait of them ). They really needed a lesson and I'm sure it will turn out for good.
And I'm not really convinced that it was planned beforehand with Pluto and Saturn - but doesn't this theory negate the idea of perfect understanding between H&Mi?
Well, as Tuxie and Verdandi pointed out it was the only way and chance for them to fight anymore. Besides they know things won't always be fixed like Usagi hopes. It doesn't work that way. It's only because she the main character everything literary goes like she wants. But who was the one who almost destroyed the whole world because of her actions in Super finale? Wasn't it Usagi who wanted to save Hotaru and who gave the Holy Grail to Mistress 9 believing that Hotaru would come to life not caring about the warns Uranus and Neptune screamed? You can't always save the whole world, you have to make sacrifices like Uranus and Neptune did. And I think they knew that if they killed Galaxia they'd most likely vanish with her since they had joined her. They were willing to sacrifice themselves to save the world.

I don't think their egos are big at all. If you really look the situation you may see that if someone has big egos there, they're the Starlights who have them. Uranus and Neptune didn't trust the Starlights since they came outside the Solar System and were intruders who fought against the Sailor Animates but didn't work like the Solar System Senshi. They didn't want to protect the Earth but only find their Princess and rebuild their planet and lives. They were not willing to fight against Galaxia (until their Princess died and they realized they wanted to protect Sailor Moon) and since the enemies were Sailor Senshi as well I certainly do understand why Uranus and Neptune fought against them, despising them since they leaved their planet to be destroyed and not trusting them since they could've been enemies as well. How and why to trust intruders who fight for only their own sake and plan to leave the planet when they've found their Princess, not caring about the Earth or its people?

And I didn't mean that they had planned to step on Galaxia's side beforehand. I meant that when Uranus realized their only chance Neptune sensed it. So they truly have the perfect understanding with one another. Pluto and Saturn were both shocked to see them accepting Galaxia's bracelets and turning against them but they realized their plan when they said that they know this was the way they fought and started the battle. Pluto and Saturn saw they were serious but that there was something in their minds; a plan to kill Galaxia and that's why they gave up. When Uranus turns to Neptune and says that she wouldn't hesitate to sell herself to the devil if she just had Michiru with her you can see Neptune realizes Uranus' plan from her reaction and words 'you're right' and when they say 'Uranus, we're together even in death!' 'Yes. See you in hell' you really hear that they had decided to pretend being Galaxia's soldiers and turn against her when she trusted them.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   2nd September 2012, 8:42 pm

HAY GAISE I'M COMIN IN THIS THREAD AND GOING USAxMAMO. HAHAHA.


But MichixHaruka are also very lovely (i really enjoy doujins of them).


USAxMAMO FOREVER.




Well thats enough trolling from me. I just wanted to put it out there tha tI love both and that Sailor Cosmos had a great point, that you really can't compare the two relationships because they are so completely different and have different dynamics to them.

I also feel some of you are mainly focusing on the anime and are completely ignoring any other version of Sailor Moon with the except of Miki because Miki = Myu. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   2nd September 2012, 9:02 pm

This is still my favorite Usagi x Mamoru moment in the entire series:

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   2nd September 2012, 11:59 pm

NO BRIT NO! *shoves awayyyyyy* I will not "deal with it" as Tuxedo Mask instructs me to do! He can't tell me what to do!



Look. At. It. Lovely. Simply lovely.

>.>



Okay yeah Usagi and Mamoru are different from Haruka and Michiru, but then again, so are all couples. No two couples are the same. But I just, I really see the soul mate aspect of Haruka and Michiru more than I see it in Usagi and Mamoru. Don't get me wrong, they (Usagi and Mamoru) have sweet moments (like in that manga scene Neon provided), buuut...yeah. I guess Haruka and Michiru just strike me as cuter as well. So soul mate-y and cute.

And now, enjoy Haruka and Michiru cuteness Very Happy






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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   3rd September 2012, 12:26 am

Haruka and Michiru vs. Mamoru and Usagi Song Battl D:>

Selected lines from various songs:

Look at all the pretty:

DESTINED COUPLE: (Romantic Duet for Haruka and Michiru)

I am here, why those eyes?
Those unknown clouds are full of sorrow
The two of us will be together anywhere, couple of Destiny
Here is the sea of comfort
Only you are in my healing heart
Now we can face our unchanging fate
To go forward into our battle
Soon, the dormant destruction will take place
With only our hands, we will protect it to the end


USAGI LOVE MAGIC: (Romantic Duet for Mamoru and Usagi)

Trying to say it, while following my dreams
That's how I could stay here for one hundred years
Your kiss is gentler than a breeze
It changes time into destiny
The tone colour of this romance is "Love magic"
Your eyes are a labyrinth of the moon
There's only one phrase: Wedding Bells
A dream inside a bewildering labyrinth
I think I want to feel those emotions again
We become one under this ever-spinning secret


Harsh! Saint Cry: (Battle Song For Uranus & Neptune)

Our sighs are bitter
Because it vanished, because it burned,
The stars can shine
Our form can change
Because it burned, because it vanished, love can shine
Harsh Harsh Uranus!
Harsh Harsh Neptune!
The Moon is untameable
It's full at this very moment, fear is unknown
Harsh Myth, Harsh Saint Cry


Moonlight Justice: (Battle Song For Moon & Tuxedo Kamen)

Moon twilight
If the noise of the moon dwells within my heart
Moonlight justice, this light
Will be carried into life
The world falls to the stormy wind
Even when time stops in the name of surrender
An angel's whistle is placed on these fingers
I'll send tomorrow, sighing each breath
Star knight justice, this light
Have faith in my courage
Will be carried into life
Always, that's right, always
My dream is myself

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   3rd September 2012, 12:32 am

Relevant Myu Spam:

DESTINED COUPLE:



Usagi Love Magic:



Harsh! Saint Cry (Re-Arrange)



Moonlight Justice


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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   3rd September 2012, 6:14 am

Haruka and Michiru win in the Myus as well ! And with high scores for me <3

Oh no Brit-chan don't you dare to think I've forgotten the other versions Wink ! I'm actually more dedicated to the manga than to the anime X'D And like Miki has pointed out Haruka and Michiru (as well as Usagi and Mamoru) had many romantic scenes in the myus, and I think HaruMichi win there as well And Tuxedo can't tell me what to do; I won't deal with it Razz

So enjoy some more HaruMichi cuteness <33 All teh cute pics here!

Look where Haruka holds her hand in these two pics, isn't it cute <3?!

(Haruka's not an early bird XD

(I'm lazy so I'm posting some pics as my siggie colorings XD)


They hold hands !
Why didn't they have more moments like this in the anime?! Why;___; ? Oh how I love this scene...<3

THIS. THIS THIS THIS IS... JUST TOO ADORABLE ! Look at their hands and expressions<3 I literary fainted when I saw this pic. Oh you two stop being so adorable and cute and lovely and awesome and...and everything (And now y'all think I'm crazy Razz ) And IMO their theme song is one of the best and elegant of all SM soundtracks ever recorded <3

THE PERFECT COUPLE

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   3rd September 2012, 9:28 am

Didn't Haruka and Michiru almost win the best love couple contest but they dropped out at the last minute to be nice to Umino and Naru?
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   3rd September 2012, 10:25 am

Yes they did because they're actually sweet and they thought Umino and Naru are cute Very Happy and they were just sweeping the competition. XD but they wanted to help Umino out because they saw how much Naru meant to him.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   3rd September 2012, 10:29 am

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   3rd September 2012, 12:01 pm

Miki wrote:
Usagi Love Magic:


OMG marina is the cutest and YUU. *faints*

This song is adorable though and one of my favs for them.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   3rd September 2012, 12:16 pm

@Neon Genesis wrote:
@Moonlight Lady wrote:
No, the ordesr is as follows:

1. Mamoru is wounded.

2. Usagi falls in love.

3. Silver Cristal is restored.

4. Usagi transforms into Moon Princess.

5. Their memories come back.

And why disregard Tuxedo Mask? In manga, when Usagi falls for Mamoru, she knows she is Tuxedo Mask.

And she started falling - much before IMO...
Usagi felt sympathy for Mamoru being wounded. Mamoru told Usagi about his childhood and visions and Usagi just says she's bumped him down to being the number two worst guy in the world. Then Zoicite attacks Mamoru, the Silver Crystal appears, they get their memories back, and all of a sudden Usagi is infatuated with Mamoru and they believe in the power of love and whatnot. In the anime version, Usagi didn't know Mamoru was Tuxedo Mask until they found out about their past lives. Up until then, she always considered Mamoru and Tuxedo Mask to be two different people.

Wasn't it crystal clear that "number two worst guy" was a kind of flirt of Usagi?

And Mamoru got attacked as Tuxedo Mask...
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   3rd September 2012, 12:20 pm

Also Neon Genesis, I think you completely misunderstood their conversation in the elevator...

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   3rd September 2012, 12:25 pm

Yeah, in that elevator they have enough chemistry to fuel three televovelas...

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   4th September 2012, 11:21 am

HaruMichi LOVE Spam Attack!!!

Prologue - Scene II:
Michiru, Himeta omoi



Translation

What I dream of is a beach house where I live together with you. A white house on the promontory, where we can always hear the sounds of the waves surging back and forth. What a thought! But it would have been better if you were a more boring, ordinary person. So then I would live without wanting you. Even if we did happen to meet, I would live without wanting you.

Even when you're with a lot of friends, you're always still alone... I knew about you since I was a child. I've known since I was little that I'd be able to meet my destined one. But that's not the reason I wanted you. Destiny is meaningless to me. I'm not the type to worry about that sort of thing.Since the darkened sky stole the sun, I can't just leave myself to the current. That's revealed by human nature, I know. Just...

Oh, you're so cool anyway! *sigh* I wish we hadn't met. I plan to break up with you even now, if you become a boring person. But I know. You won't depend on anyone. You'll always be obedient to your own feelings. And you'll be like
that until you die.So fine! I've decided myself! I'm just running toward what I want. To always be with you, who knows isolation... I've decided that... in my heart
Haruka...


Michiru's Super song
Unmei wa Utsukushiku - This fate so beautifully



Translation

When I first gazed at you, the scent of wind
filled the air
That dear smiling face

We were called to meet by a strange force, and realizing the
Significance of it, I had been searching below the spacious sky
For your warm eyes

*Because this fate so beautifully
Makes my tears shine with brilliance
Whatever memories that I may keep with me
I had the feeling that I will not turn away
again

The fingertip I reached out to you is becoming
dyed in the
Deep color of darkness

Even if my distant dream of waking up in a
cold storm

Someday comes true
Believing in everything that I have chosen
Is the power to change tomorrow

Because this fate so magnificently
Makes my skin shine with brilliance
#Whatever sadness may come toward me
I will not be hurt again, if I have you with me

*Repeat
#Repeat

If I have you with me, if I have you with me


Michiru's poem



Translation

That was as blue as sorrow... It was as filled with radiance as sorrow... Leaving behind wings like those of angels, the doves flew about in the sky. At that time I was startled by the coldness of my hands. I was startled by the depth of my feelings.

Until then, all the future was in my hands. Lightly knitting my brow, there was not a single cloud in all my nerves. I could only face that. Dreaming... Only that.

And finally, I show a smile like a flower bed. That moment... I loved so much I couldn't bear it. I wouldn't say I was in a trance... Rather that I living like I was being followed by something. Where am I wandering toward? Sometimes I don't know. Sometimes I was terribly frightened of another one coming to take my hand away, and felt I was being crushed.

Musical notes born from my fingertips, fly straight into your heart. Sadness overflowing from my fingertips, fly straight into your heart. In the distance was the sound of a storm. A flash of lightning was approaching. No matter how I struggled, no matter how I escaped, eventually I could only go forth on that path. It looked like I was forced to choose. But I am the one who chose. Please don't grieve for the future me. Be someone who thinks with pride of the present me.

While embracing the mosaic of light, while embracing a gentle curve, I pour into a single sea. That was as blue as sorrow... It was as filled with radiance as sorrow... And I sleep wrapped in the familiar, warm blue. I sleep hidden in calm, pure silence. Holding closely the small dream I had as a child...


Prologue - Scene I Haruka:



Translation:


Michiru?
There's nobody else who would call at this time.
I was sleeping!
Right now?
Iwake Beach will still be there tomorrow and the day after.
It's an inconvenience.
Just wait. I'll be there soon.

[Hangs up the phone.]

Cold...
In little light, my planet of isolation makes even myself freeze over.
Before I met you, I was a pirate, taking for my own everything I liked in the world that I could see. I was a queen, leading all those around me.
Motorsports. Hang gliding. Basketball. Fencing. Whatever I did, nothing was a match for me. I went along, satisfied with that life. I spent the time convincing myself that I was satisfied. But... But then... I felt I was really about to break apart. I felt I was going to
be crushed by irritation. After I tore off the mask of the daytime, every night in bed I cried out without a voice.
No... This me is not me. It's not the real me! I was but a child, trying to escape my own destiny. Wrapped in a thin blanket, I was a naked child crying.

And then, when I met you, I understood at once. You were that person. You were that person I searched for, and at the same time was afraid of. You, elegant but having wild eyes... Never turning your eyes from reality,
fighting against everything... You taught me that destiny is something you choose yourself. Like the larva dies and is reborn a butterfly, at that time the cowardly me was killed by you. You, strong and able to keep fighting. And yet... When I'm thinking of you... for some reason... gentle feelings... fill my heart...

[The last sentence uses the word 'michiru', meaning 'to be full', and of course at the same time it refers to the person Haruka is speaking of.]

Haruka's Stars song (I'm posting Initial U since I think it tells even more how Haruka loves Michiru)



Translation:

White petals falling into the sea
Rush to awaken your shadow
Sweet hair is waiting for me.
Eyelids closed, burning as on that night...
The machine in front is the Ferrari!
My memories become the wind...
Now, the blue checkered flag!
* I face only the path of glory
I've left the evidence of this vow in a kiss
I could certainly run facing the sunrise
But you have been carved, in shining gold, on my heart,
Initial U

Why do you speak of a hand that doesn't hang?
My shattered dreams have been dried of tears
That silver mirror has been washed away in the sea
I could have given up the future
Now, shuffle and open your mind!

Someday I will definitely believe in this day again.
I left the kiss of this promise behind
Whatever darkness may be waiting, I will face the sunrise
Together, we are carved, in shining gold, in my heart
Initial U

* I face only the path of glory
I've left the evidence of this vow in a kiss
I could certainly run facing the sunrise
But you have been carved, in shining gold, on my heart,
Initial U


Haruka's poem




Translation

Everything to me was just the world spread out before my eyes. Whatever the past, it became small while shining inside the mirror. The dirty sky... The echoes of the train... The noise of daytime... Everything around becoming a flowing line and flying off.
The remaining white moon... The rays of light brimming over... The sweet shape... of the girls' hands... Everything around becoming a flowing line and breaking off.
At that time I will become the wind. I will become a wind prettier than anyone. I will become a wind stronger than anything.
With my hands on the wheel, stepping on the gas... My chest throbs... The ultra-high-speed world. That is the one space that's just mine.
For me to be me... I cut through the haze of heat. Sweat slowly pours down. Exposed to the light, the world is fully exposed. That is the one space that's just mine. For me to not be me...
High above, the clouds blow about over the vivid aquamarine sea. While I seek after it so much that I
feel longing, I still feel like letting go sometimes. The dream I have in my heart... I pursue it so much that it hurts, but I still want to
destroy it sometimes. The future I have in my heart... What on earth is it I keep running for? Just how far will I keep running?
The jet disappeared into the setting sun. It soared past, leaving two bold lines in the sky. Like it was searching for an exit, my gasping heart then gave an answer for the first time. If I don't keep running, I won't be able to see anything. If I don't keep running, nothing will end. If I just finish once... If I just get the checkered flag once... At that time I will become the wind. I will become a wind prettier than anyone. I will become a wind stronger than anything.

These two songs are my very favorite SM songs EVER (my BGM favorite is Uranus, Soshite, Neptune)! I just love them to pieces just like I love these two <3

And here's a song dedicated to
their love. It's sung on a version of their theme BGM. You can find it on the same album their S image songs are on.

Ai Dake Ga Dekiru Koto - Something only Love can do


Translation

The pain that is burning inside my heart
Is a notice love has started to bud
This feeling that I can't even wait till tomorrrow
Adds one more secret to the rest
When I am thinking about someone
It calls up a strange power inside me
The name you murmur to me without a thought
Is a magic spell I will protect
They are still now having dreams
The passions inside my heart
There is something that only love can do
It is that kind of foreboding
Gazing at each other with warm eyes
A tomorrow like that I'm sure will come
Please lead me ahead without mistake
Then this power will be born
Whispering to me since some time ago
The spirits inside my heart
There is something that love still aims for
The future flashes before us
They are still now having dreams
The passions inside my heart
There is something that only love can do
That is making predictions
<3

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   4th September 2012, 12:09 pm

@Neon Genesis wrote:
Even in the R season, destiny still seems to ultimately be on their side since Mamoru's visions of the future all ended up just being a test from King Endymion to test their love, which made no sense considering that since he's Mamoru's future self and he and Serenity still loved each other, then he already knows they would make it, but even then, the MOTDs always kept forcing Usagi and Mamoru together.

How did the MOTDs force Usagi and Mamoru together?

And it's not that he knows they would make it - the future in this universe is changeable and can be affected by actions. Otherwise, Inner senshi, Mamoru and cats wouldn't have to fear for lifes, because they would know they would survive to the 30th century.

Besides, I believe that main point of this test was to show them both, how much they want to be together, before they learn they'll get married.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   4th September 2012, 12:38 pm

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:

I don't think their egos are big at all. If you really look the situation you may see that if someone has big egos there, they're the Starlights who have them. Uranus and Neptune didn't trust the Starlights since they came outside the Solar System and were intruders who fought against the Sailor Animates but didn't work like the Solar System Senshi. They didn't want to protect the Earth but only find their Princess and rebuild their planet and lives. They were not willing to fight against Galaxia (until their Princess died and they realized they wanted to protect Sailor Moon) and since the enemies were Sailor Senshi as well I certainly do understand why Uranus and Neptune fought against them, despising them since they leaved their planet to be destroyed and not trusting them since they could've been enemies as well. How and why to trust intruders who fight for only their own sake and plan to leave the planet when they've found their Princess, not caring about the Earth or its people?
Haruka and Michiru didn't even bother to chech what Starlights are up to. If they didn't trust them, they should research them. Even if Starlights wouldn't want to fight, they could still help as source of information about Galaxia -not using which was insane of them.

And Princess wanted to cooperate and Starlights would follow her. H&M didn't have similar respect to their princess, did they? They regarded her as retarded child.


Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
When Uranus turns to Neptune and says that she wouldn't hesitate to sell herself to the devil if she just had Michiru with her you can see Neptune realizes Uranus' plan from her reaction and words 'you're right' and when they say 'Uranus, we're together even in death!' 'Yes. See you in hell' you really hear that they had decided to pretend being Galaxia's soldiers and turn against her when she trusted them.

Yes, I agree. Therefore, I never believed in "previous plan" theory.

And if Pluto and Saturn let them kill them, H&M would not speak about their betrayal. Besides, it would be more useful to keep Pluto and Saturn, who have greater powers.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   4th September 2012, 2:15 pm

@Moonlight Lady wrote:

Haruka and Michiru didn't even bother to chech what Starlights are up to. If they didn't trust them, they should research them. Even if Starlights wouldn't want to fight, they could still help as source of information about Galaxia -not using which was insane of them.
And Princess wanted to cooperate and Starlights would follow her. H&M didn't have similar respect to their princess, did they? They regarded her as retarded child.

Actually it's obvious at the beginning of the episode 190 that all Outers had investigated Starlight's ambitions and goals. And what they knew about Galaxia wouldn't have been that important. I mean it would've helped but how could've the Outers known the Starlights were A) speaking the truth B) knew anything which was real. They knew the Light of Hope was the last hope they had if they wanted to beat Galaxia (which wasn't completely true) and none of them knew the legendary Soldier was Galaxia herself. I really understand why they didn't trust them since they were planning to abandon the Earth after finding their Princess, not fighting but running away and because they fight until their last breaths I sure understand why they didn't respect them. They didn't trust them because of the fact they weren't 'worth' it until they proved they wanted to protect Usagi with their lives and Haruka and Michiru gave their position to Starlights, trusting they would do the same as Haruka and Michiru themselves. (And don't get me wrong, I have no means to bash Starlights, I've always liked them.)

Haruka and Michiru sure respected their Princess but just like Haruka said Usagi's too sweet at times which has turned against her many times and almost killed her. They wanted to protect her since as I pointed out earlier they didn't think Starlights were worth of their trust and that Usagi would just be hurt and in danger if she cooperated with them.


@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Yes, I agree. Therefore, I never believed in "previous plan" theory.

And if Pluto and Saturn let them kill them, H&M would not speak about their betrayal. Besides, it would be more useful to keep Pluto and Saturn, who have greater powers.

When they talked about betrayal I don't think they meant anything physical. They stepped on the enemy's side and abandoned all their goals, pride and duty as senshi when they accepted Galaxia's bracelets and killed Pluto and Saturn. They had stepped aside the path that was their destiny, granted for them to protect their Princess and other Senshi. They had stepped on the enemy's side and even though it was all just an act they had killed their companions with their own hands. When Pluto and Saturn realize Uranus and Neptune are serious and when they attack them, Pluto and Saturn just close their eyes. The don't jump away, they don't try to protect themselves or fight against those two, even though they had promised that at least one of them will stand up to the end and destroy Galaxia, but just close their eyes calmly, showing they had realized and accepted Uranus' and Neptune's plan and were in it, willing to die to let Galaxia think Uranus and Neptune were loyal to her even though they weren't.

And not necessarily. Pluto and Saturn both have great powers but they had both lost their weapons (the Glaive and the Rod) which were (fir at least what we know) the source of their deadly attacks. Besides Pluto doesn't have so much experience of fighting nor does Saturn since they had fought the less of all Sailor Soldiers. Uranus and Neptune have different kind of powers and they have the biggest experience of fighting until death (even though inners are in more it has been pointed out that Outers are much stronger and more experienced). And I'm not so sure how Galaxia's bracelets have influence on Senshi powers since when they still have the same attacks when Galaxia has their Star Seeds/Sailor Crystals.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   4th September 2012, 3:37 pm

I've always believed that Haruka and Michiru really mistrusted Seiya because they felt like she was trying to misguide their own princess. They really love Usagi, both as their princess and as a person, and I find it strange that people think that they hate her or something. It's not true at all. Even before they knew her secret identity, they were always flirting with her and thinking of her as being really sweet and cute. Haruka and Michiru might have different ways of fighting, and they are incredibly determined, but they have the utmost respect for Usagi.

Also: Pluto and Saturn might have greater powers, but they both die when using them. If Uranus and Neptune could get in with Galaxia enough to try and catch her off guard, then they would take that chance because it was the only chance they felt they had at defeating her. And since Pluto and Saturn both lost their weapons, Neptune and Uranus were kind of the only options.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   4th September 2012, 4:00 pm

Yes, I think they share deeper love for Usagi than any other senshi. You can see it in so many situations but one scene I have to point out is the episode 180 when Starlights had left and Uranus and Neptune try to explain Usagi they only want to protect her. Their love and care is clearly heard from their voices. And the manga has some awesome scenes of Uranus and Neptune facing Usagi and showing how they love her as their Princess.

And in the end I think Saturn and Pluto would've sacrificed their own lives (like Saturn almost did in the episode 172 when ChibiMoon stopped her) but since they had lost their weapons I don't think they would've had much power to turn against Galaxia even though they had her bracelets. And like I've mentioned earlier I don't think Pluto and Saturn could've killed Uranus and Neptune if they were the ones pretending to be on Galaxia's side. Like I've said earlier I think Uranus and Neptune are they only senshi who are strong enough to make that kind of decision.

Nevertheless back to the original topic!

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: MichiruXHaruka or MamoruXUsagi?   5th September 2012, 11:21 am

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:

But meeting the first time face to face with Haruka Michiru went straight to the point when she asked Haruka if she couldn't hear the wind rustling, hinting that she knew who Haruka was and that they shared the same mission. And then she asked Haruka to come to the cruise where she had a performance in order to speak with her right after they met. And I never said her argument with Haruka convinced her... And you can see that Michiru had to restrain herself too. She gripped her dress, closed her eyes and spoke biting her lip, saying that Haruka was unfair and then loudening her voice to say that she can't do something stupid like saving the world from destruction.
Yes, she knew who Haruka was during that meeting - but later she admitted being interested in Haruka much before that and she had that silent, distant admiration.

Michiru is very moved during that scene, because she deeply cares. But Mamoru has also scenes, when he's moved, has to restrain himself, shouts and even cries - that doesn't mean that he generally isn't reserved person. People aren't monoliths.


Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
You know we often see them shopping or walking at some park (like the well-known loves' park) and just talking and being together, very often on the swimming pool where Michiru likes to spend her time, cruising along the beach, being on a vacation together and you barely never see them alone with the other one so I think it's the same thing. Besides Usagi is the main character so of course her relationship with Mamoru got the most of the romantic screen time the animators fitted in the series... And Haruka and Michiru appear only in Super and Stars while Mamoru and Usagi got their time in all seasons. It's a shame the animators didn't put Michiru and Haruka in more ;____;...

For me it's shame they didn't put more Mamoru and Usagi

They almost always are with each other, but also they usually talk about mission, finding talismans, who can be the next victim.

It's obviously true that Usagi and Mamoru got more time screen and plot importance, which makes it harder to compare.
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