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 Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?

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PostSubject: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   31st August 2012, 10:03 pm

If I understand the situation correctly, even in Japan, the uncut Japanese version of Sailor Moon is considered to be a kid's show like the edited dub is in the U.S. I've seen some of the Japanese commercials on youtube and all the toys in the commercials are all clearly targeted at elementary school girls. While I try to be open minded about these issues and I think the dub went way overboard on censorship, I think some of the cuts they did made were understandable from an American perspective. I understand that Japan has a different culture from ours and they have different standards of what's considered appropriate for children, but there are some questionable scenes in the Japanese version that I have to wonder if young elementary children really are old enough and mature enough to see.

One prime example I can think of is in episode 2 where Umino flips up Ms. Haruna's skirt and we see her underwear and she makes some comment about how now she can't get married. As an adult, I wasn't particularly bothered by it but what if a little kid watches it and thinks it's funny and decides to copy it in real life? We all probably roleplayed our favorite cartoon characters as kids and while it is certainly a parent's responsibility to teach their children how to behave properly in real life, I have to wonder if the kids that the Sailor Moon anime targets are really old enough and mature enough to understand why such behavior is wrong and inappropriate in real life when we try to explain it to them.

Again, I try to be open minded about nudity in anime and for the most part the nudity in Sailor Moon is pretty harmless, but I do have to wonder what was going through Toei's mind when they made Chibi-usa's rather revealing transformation scene in the SMS movie. And if little kids cried during Disney's Bambi, how would they react to the
Spoiler:
 
? While I've seen anime far more violent than that, those images are rather disturbing and still make me cry even as an adult who's watched the series about a billion times by now. I have to wonder what kind of impact those last two episodes of the first season would have on the kids seen in the Japanese toy commercials. What are your thoughts on this issue? Do you think Sailor Moon isn't any worse than what's on American TV and should be just fine for kids or do you have any concerns yourself about showing the Japanese version to kids?
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   31st August 2012, 10:13 pm

Well I don't have children but I was asked on here once and this is from a teachers POV if I would ever let my students watch sailor moon and my answer would be no because for one it isn't educational and schools have become really strict on that stuff, and I mean if you think about the transformations being naked that's still inappropriate. Michiru and Harukas relationship isn't something I would want my children exposed to either. Even in the dub the anime can be dark especially during the infinity arc. The sovereign of silence scared me at a very young age. I watched it as a young girl which was the dub only back then but even now I would never let my kids watch the sub unless they were 13 because I don't think a child any younger really would get it, but I guess I'm more chaste than a lot of people.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   31st August 2012, 10:30 pm

Yeah, I would say you might be a bit more chaste cause I think if I had kids, I'd let them enjoy the English dubbed version (simply because i know as a kid i had no interest in a movie if it had subtitles and neither did kids i babysat too (it was hard getting younger kids to watch subbed sailor moon and like it)). Which is really tame, imo. I would think once they got a bit older watch the subtitled version just cause they might be more inclined to read it wtih subtitles.

Also like you mentioned, Neon Genesis, Japan has a different culture. I think kids are raised much more strictly than they are here in the US and it is common humor in anime, even kids shows, to sometimes have raunchy humor like the flipping of the teachers skirt. I would think a parent would then turn to their kid "DON'T YOU EVER DO THIS". But I really do't know enough about japanese culture to make a statement about how Japanese parents are with raising kids.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   31st August 2012, 10:36 pm

I had a Japanese girl live with me a year and apparently it's very strict! I would let my kids watch the dubbed forgot to mention I was meaning the subbed. Anyways kids in Japan go to school six days a week and like we have custodians in our public schools here but in Japan the students help clean the school. Most kids also go to cram school and have to pass an entrance exam just to get into high school and if they fail it then they cannot make it up. You basically have one chance to succeed. Japanese kids also take more time to study and according to her tv is a special treat and not something watched for hours at a time. She also said in her school that they couldn't wear makeup. Most Japanese kids are very self disciplined and want to please their teachers, sock would say the crude humor doesn't affect them very much.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   31st August 2012, 10:36 pm

Well Japan as a whole, is a bit more open about what it exposes its children to than the West. However, like in the West you are always going to get people who find it something uncomfortable to show it to their children and it would be the parents decision to if they watch or not. In my family, I don't believe nudity would have been such a big deal to your typical Japanese mother (or father) as its not very detailed when they transform and its within their own home. I do believe that many children were very upset with the deaths of the main characters at the end of the first series, some people would of course, would attempt to protect their children by reducing exposure while others would just teach them that death is a fact of life. Haruka and Michiru's relationship, would have probably not have been /too/ much of a big deal to Japan, but some eyebrows probably raised at how normal the relationship was presented as. It's not that homosexuality is usually viewed as "wrong" its more than, people get confused at why someone is a homosexual when they could "easily" (because there's an idea floating about that its just a choice) just be heterosexual but they're not going to worry about it, they'll just accept and move on.

I think Sailor Moon is a kid's show, and personally, if I had kids, I wouldn't have much problem showing any of it to them, if they get confused or upset, I would probably explain it to them, but because its a show for kids that doesn't necessarily mean adults can't enjoy it too, in fact the best shows are usually ones that people of all ages can enjoy, in fact sometimes you can see a hint of the show being secretly for the parents too watch (just look at the audience of some of the First Stage musicals --- more adults than kids)

Asian families can usually be very strict, but its all still dependent on the individuals, but even though they're strict, they're usual quite open about "facts of life" to make it easier to deal with things for them. But again it all depends on the personality of the parents, where their living, their lifestyle, their social class and so on. So everyone is different but there are "norms" and so on.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   31st August 2012, 10:59 pm

Anjyu wrote:
never let my kids watch the sub unless they were 13

what o.O it's not madoka, madoka have a R-13 rating (america) and a FSK 12 rating (germany). but for sailor moon thats REALLY to high i think.
i mean here in germany most of the sailor moon episodes have a FSK 6 rating and a few episodes (mostly seasonfinals) a FSK 12 rating. ok when it will be released someday in half season box it will have a FSK 12 rating just because for boxes they used always the rating from the episode with the highest rating.

for example the anime Elfen Lied ->

the first DVD have a FSK 18 rating and ALL the other DVDs a FSK 16 rating, but the complete series box have a FSK 18 rating even the most episode are FSK 16.
so with sailor moon it will be the same:
FSK 12 boxes dosent change the fact that the MOST episodes are FSK 6 here ^^ (and yes except for Zoisite being a girl the series is uncensored here)

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 12:29 am

Miki wrote:
Well Japan as a whole, is a bit more open about what it exposes its children to than the West. However, like in the West you are always going to get people who find it something uncomfortable to show it to their children and it would be the parents decision to if they watch or not. In my family, I don't believe nudity would have been such a big deal to your typical Japanese mother (or father) as its not very detailed when they transform and its within their own home. I do believe that many children were very upset with the deaths of the main characters at the end of the first series, some people would of course, would attempt to protect their children by reducing exposure while others would just teach them that death is a fact of life. Haruka and Michiru's relationship, would have probably not have been /too/ much of a big deal to Japan, but some eyebrows probably raised at how normal the relationship was presented as. It's not that homosexuality is usually viewed as "wrong" its more than, people get confused at why someone is a homosexual when they could "easily" (because there's an idea floating about that its just a choice) just be heterosexual but they're not going to worry about it, they'll just accept and move on.
Some of the transformation scenes are harmless but some of them seem
pretty revealing to me. The most revealing ones to me are Minako's
transformation, Luna's transformation into a human in the S movie, and
Usagi's nudity scene in episode 200. There also seems to be quite a bit
of scenes of the Sailor Soldiers' mini-skirts showing their bloomers in
some episodes. One thing I've noticed is that it seems like the
live-action version of Sailor Moon was a lot cleaner and less violent
than the anime version was. Being gay myself, I don't have any problem
with showing gay characters in itself. My only problem with showing Haruka
and Michiru to kids is with all the sex jokes they make in Sailor Stars. Like I don't have any problems with kids reading the Harry Potter books even though Dumbledore is gay because the jokes in the series always stay very clean. I heard the new American
animated kid's movie, ParaNorman, actually has a gay character in it and
that's being marketed to kids in the U.S.

Quote :
i mean here in germany most of the sailor moon episodes have a FSK 6 rating and
a few episodes (mostly seasonfinals) a FSK 12 rating. ok when it will
be released someday in half season box it will have a FSK 12 rating just
because for boxes they used always the rating from the episode with the
highest rating.
In the U.S., ADV rated the uncut seasons one and two boxsts 15+ but Pioneer rated their uncut Sailor Moon DVDs 13+. Kodonasha USA's English versions of the manga are also rated 13+.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 2:38 am

well, as a mother whose kid likes to watch sailor moon, i only showed here the classic version, and in portuguese. I think that 4 years old is too young for certain things, although she is educated to respect differences as if they didn't exist.

as for the sailors dying, you just have to explain before the screening. at least with my kid, it was like that.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 3:49 am

I think that Sailor Moon is a children's show, but I don't believe it has anything bad in it that would harm a child if they saw it. I was a kid when I started watching Sailor Moon, and I think I've grown up pretty decently :3

I think Sailor Moon has so many good morals in it, and it has such a good message that I think kids *should* hear. I would want my kids exposed to Haruka and Michiru's relationship because I think it would help build tolerance later in life if they saw that some of the favorite characters are gay. And I really don't think much of their sexual jokes with one another throughout the series are cause for much concern because they weren't really that graphic or vivid, and I think if a child watched it they wouldn't understand it anyway. And the instances of "nudity" aren't even graphic either, and are presented in a more artistic way that I don't think it would damage any child.

With all of the good messages and morals in Sailor Moon about friendship and love, and fighting for what you believe in, and loving people of all types, and wanting to protect everyone, etc, I think all kids should watch shows like Sailor Moon.

And really, there are so many worse things available on TV and movies nowadays, that Sailor Moon doesn't rank anywhere close to them, in my opinion.

The only episode I wouldn't ever let my future kids watch would be the weight-loss episode... I really dislike that one.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 4:18 am

Verdandi wrote:
I was a kid when I started watching Sailor Moon, and I think I've grown up pretty decently :3

same here, i where 6 years old the first time i saw it (episode 1 at the first airing in germany) ..

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 4:20 am

Quote :
The only episode I wouldn't ever let my future kids watch would be the weight-loss episode... I really dislike that one.

I always felt the meaning behind Jadeite's arc was "all trendy things ever are evil and trying to kill you".

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 4:23 am

Miki wrote:
Quote :
The only episode I wouldn't ever let my future kids watch would be the weight-loss episode... I really dislike that one.

I always felt the meaning behind Jadeite's arc was "all trendy things ever are evil and trying to kill you".

Haha! Hmm, never thought of it that way before.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 4:28 am

Verdandi wrote:
Miki wrote:
Quote :
The only episode I wouldn't ever let my future kids watch would be the weight-loss episode... I really dislike that one.

I always felt the meaning behind Jadeite's arc was "all trendy things ever are evil and trying to kill you".

Haha! Hmm, never thought of it that way before.

Its so true though, whenever something new and hyped up for no reason appears on an advertisement, you just know that somewhere Jadeite's doing this:



....Maybe Jadeite runs hottopic?

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 4:33 am

xD

And now he's trying to lure us all in with new Sailor Moon Merchandise!

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 4:37 am

D: Maybe this marks the rising again of the Dark Kingdom?

/offtopic Miki strikes again

*cough*

um yeah Sailor Moon is really supposed to be a kid's thing. But all four main versions of the series are aimed at slightly different audiences so its good for everyone! yay

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 6:16 am

Naoko intended the manga for teenage girls and I think that this is probably a little higher than the anime audience but a little lower than the Myu audience.

When I was in Japan my tour guide asked me what my favorite anime and mangas where and when I said Sailor Moon he told me that parents don't really like it because of the, as he said it, "changing of clothes". So apparently the transformation sequences aren't so popular with Japanese parents today. They never really bothered me, in comparision to other shows like Rayearth they were nothing. I was a little nervous the first time I showed my mom Sailor Moon because she can be very conservative (I couldn't watch Cartoon Network or Spongebob as a kid!) but when I told her what my tour guide said she said "Really? All she does is twirl around with some ribbons and poof she is transformed."

I can see why some of the transformation seens might make parents cringe a little but I also see why they don't. I guess in a way Sailor Moon is like a Disney film, there is nothing too hazardous for kids but enough adult humor to make it fun for everyone. When you look at films like the Lion King Mufasa died and you see his body on screen. In Bambi his mother died off screen but everybody is sad about it.

As for the gay characters in the show, it doesn't really bother me that they are in there if Naoko had made them that way because her audience was teenage girls/ young ladies so it is appropriate there.

So is Sailor Moon really a kid's show? I'm not sure, it has morals and themes in it that all kids need to hear, like friendship, love, teamwork,ect. but also covers much darker themes. I think it is also fair to say that the plots/themes covered by the progressing seasons are darker and but the audience has grown up too and is also fitting to their needs and being mature. I think the show should be more directed to the teenage and up demographic to match the manga and musicals but the anime is where the toy sales will be good and who buys toys? The little ones. So I can see why it was aimed more for children.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 6:58 am

I'm quite old, as I watched for the first time in my teens, not as a small kid. I do believe that it's a show for older kids/early teens, but not for the reasons stated, which I really don't see as problematic.

nudity- as I was mentioned earlier, it's not detailed and not really presented in sexual manner. Usagi in ep. 200 is presented as symbol of purity, not sex.

death- is really part of life. Besides they all come back in the next episode.

(in my country on first airing 45 i 46 episodes were cut completely, last year the 46 was shown late at night. Rolling Eyes )

Umino is mind-controlled in these scenes and it's not really presented as cool actions (nor his forcibly trying to kiss Usagi). He is deeply embarassed when he is told what has happened.

sexual jokes with Haruka and Michiru in Stars are few and not explicit - young kids probably won't get it.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 7:28 am

There are several 'adult' references in Disney that fly over the children's heads. I believe those were more subtly laid for the parents. I doubt Sailor Moon does this, though, or does so intentionally.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 7:51 am

Honestly I think it all depends on the maturity of your child. Growing up as kid my mother let me play Mortal Combat 2 when I was eight years old. Now that game was consider very violent back in the day and was rated M. However my mother knew my brother and I were mature enough to play that game. Heck my mother and father would let me watch adult cartoons like The Simpsons.

Whenever I become a parent I have no problems showing my kids the sub version of Sailor Moon. If they have any questions about certain topics then I'll talk to them about it. Like the MichiruxHarkua paring or what's happening the soldiers at the end of season 1.

This is my problem parents today their view of what's appropriate for children is so odd. They have no problems allowing their children to sit through a movie where someone gets their head blown off, but they throw a fit if their kid hears a cuss word. I for one would rather let my kid hear a cuss word than let them watch someone get their head blown off. Again it's depends on their maturity though. Back to swear words. All parents have to do is sit down with their child explain to them about the use of cuss words.

Sorry for going a bit off topic. >.> I feel like this debate as a whole is asking what appropriate for children.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 9:44 am

There are a lot of parents though who are also concerned about kids playing violent video games too so I don't think all parents are concerned with only cussing. The first time I saw this scene in the manga I was very surprised because even the anime version ended up censoring it by changing it so that Beryl killed Serenity herself instead:

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 10:34 am

As for deaths being upsetting - IMO, if the audience is sad, it's proper reaction - it would be worse, if deaths were met with indifference.

As for season 1 finale, I think that the most problematic for kids isn't death toll of sailor warriors, but Dark Endymion beating Sailor Moon - about 5 minutes of sheer torture. (this episode last year was marked for 16+ and shown late at night Rolling Eyes )

So I'm not sure that themes in the show get darker with each season.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 11:23 am

@Neon Genesis wrote:
There are a lot of parents though who are also concerned about kids playing violent video games too so I don't think all parents are concerned with only cussing.

You've obviously never worked at a video game store. :/

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 11:32 am

On the "violent games" point --> The amount of kids playing FPSs is too damn high --" What the heck is wrong with kids nowadays? At their age, I played mostly nintendo games (and I still do) ... not freaking Call Of Money. I didn't play TF2 (excellent FPS game) until three or two years or so. When I was OLD ENOUGH. Kids playing FPSs at 10 are as ridiculous as 8 years old girls who already act like total [:B Autocensoring myself, a Chibi here would look weird].
(Oh, and thanks, Galaxy cauldron, now that I know the forum replace swear words by "chibi", i'm never going to look at this cute little thing the same way)

I don't think Sailor Moon has anything traumatizing :'D I let my 8 years old cousin read my mangas and she always ask for more. sure, there is some parts of the story that can't be understood when you're a kid, but as said earlier, the best stories are those which can be enjoyed by all ages.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 11:36 am

I was 8 when I started watching Sailor Moon.

like someone said about the kids maturity, Mia watches The Walking Dead and plays Plants vs Zombies. She watches Sailor Moon, Saint Seiya and other "teens" tv shows. And she is super mature and polite. I think that the problem with the parents today is that they're too busy not paying any attention to kids and letting the TV be the kid's babysitter. That way, they don't worry, they don't raise, they don't talk, they don't explain. And that is just so sad. My kid is different than other kids her age. She is adorable, polite, has a great sense of humor(and I'm not saying as a mother, I'm saying as a person who works with kids as well).

I think that if the parents were more focused in explaining and actually raising the kid, that wouldn't be such a problem.

I grew up listening to a band that used to sing about a gangbang(yeah, really) and we didn't even notice that. there was no malice. kids have no malice. we are the ones who put that on them.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 2:10 pm

Small Lady wrote:


You've obviously never worked at a video game store. :/
I doubt that the parents who are concerned about it would be hanging out at a video game store but there are lots of organizations out there that have been formed who are concerned about the glorification of violence in video games and the media in general. In western anime fandom, there does seem to be this perception that violent dark anime are cool and deep just because they're violent and dark whereas anime that are cute and have lots of romance are seen as lame and "girly."
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 2:50 pm

@Neon Genesis wrote:
Small Lady wrote:


You've obviously never worked at a video game store. :/
I doubt that the parents who are concerned about it would be hanging out at a video game store but there are lots of organizations out there that have been formed who are concerned about the glorification of violence in video games and the media in general. In western anime fandom, there does seem to be this perception that violent dark anime are cool and deep just because they're violent and dark whereas anime that are cute and have lots of romance are seen as lame and "girly."

When I said that in response it's because i don't think you realize just how many parents don't care about the violence in video games where as "OMG IS THERE CUSSING" or "OMG IS THERE NAKED WOMENS" is a bigger concern. I really sigh when parents buy a 5 year old Grand Theft Auto and i tell them all the bad stuff in the game and they go "meh they can see it all on tv anyway."

There is a high amount of parents that do that. -_- I just don't understand violence = ok but tits and curse words =/= ok. o_O

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 10:56 pm

Sailor Moon a kids show? Ha. Hahahaha. No. Just no. Yeah, we all watched it as kids, but really, now that we're older, we can see that it's not. First of all, it's rather a scary story, if you think about it. All seasons. All the villains are scary, the things they do are scary, etc. The scenes are scary, both in the anime and manga. And then the sexuality that's in the story (talking more in the manga from what I've read). Granted it's not explicit, but still. I wouldn't really introduce my child if I were to have one to the full blown series until they were older. I mean, yeah perhaps the dub, since it's basically a modified, "kid friendly" version, but yeah.

Also, I totally think it could be a great tool to help teach that love is love, regardless of gender.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   1st September 2012, 11:11 pm

the only show that scares me as a kid was the cartoon ->
'Tales from the Cryptkeeper',
it's based on the adult horror series 'Tales from the Crypt'

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   2nd September 2012, 12:03 am

Minene Uryuu wrote:
the only show that scares me as a kid was the cartoon ->
'Tales from the Cryptkeeper',
it's based on the adult horror series 'Tales from the Crypt'

omg i remember that!

While many of Sailor Moons villains are pretty creepy for a kids show, i really think its tame compared to other "scarier" shows that were on tv at the time. Also the fact that its animated helps keep it from being truly scary to kids vs it being a live action show. At least thats how it was for me growing up.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Sailor Moon Really A Kid's Show?   2nd September 2012, 12:21 am

not really the "monsters" scares me, more the storys itself .... that was the differnts about Cryptkeeper & Sailor Moon...

like i said before the cartoon are based on a adult horror series. and even it was FSK 18 back them (the original, not the cartoon) it was not uncensored in germany (until 2010 they release the real series uncensored but i mean how it was years back them xD )

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