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 Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?

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PostSubject: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 1:42 pm

So I've been thinking, how come Mercury, Venus, Jupiter, Mars, Saturn, and Pluto can't find love but Uranus and Neptune can?

Sailor V explores the concept of romance being a distraction for the Senshi who have dedicated themselves completely to their Princess. Rei and Minako swore themselves off boys in the Stars arc of the manga and I assume Makoto and Ami have too but it just wan't stated. Setsuna says that she loves Mamoru/King Endimon but knows that they can never be together and has to love him from afar.

But then there is the Haruka and Michiru relationship. How come these two can be lovers but the rest of the Senshi can not find their own. Doesn't this love mean that they are not completely commited to their Princess? If they can be both then why not the others?

What do you guys think?

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 2:26 pm

Let's straighten some things out here. It is implied setsuna holds an unrequieted love for Endymion but it isn't really said if she is or not. As for Haruka and Michiru they are dedicated to Usagi because they did offer to throw their lives away for her in S for the sake of the talismans. As for the other senshi I think that usagi would grant them some freedom when it come to choosing their destinies. I don't think she would deny them their happiness unless you're one of those people who ship makoxaki and reixminako.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 2:39 pm

So that they can give us fans all excuses to do femslash!
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 2:40 pm

Yup. I think Haruka and Michiru are the ones who are actually the most dedicated to Usagi (Haruka comes first). They share a deep bond with Usagi like all senshi but their love for each other is in the end more important than their mission. They are still extremely dedicated to their Princess and as Jupi said they are ready to throw their lives away for Usagi and for the future if they just can be together. They cannot live without the other one but are willing to kill themselves for their Princess' sake and die together.

I share similar thoughts with Jupi when we speak about the other senshi. Usagi is very kind hearted and understands her friends and I'm sure that if the other girls wanted to have freedom to have time for love Usagi would surely grant it for them. Like Usagi said she wants everybody to be happy so she's most likely do anything for the others' happiness.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 3:14 pm

This is an awesome question for discussion.

1. I think that just goes along with the problem of Naoko not giving much plot attention to the development of the other Sailor Scouts. Haruka and Michiru were probably an exception just because their love is non-traditional.

2. If one of the other scouts found love, I think it would imply that they are prettier/better/whatever than the other scouts. If only some of them did, it would put down the few that didn't find love. If the ALL found love, that'd be way too complicated for the plot of a "children's" show. I guess it's just easier to go with Usagi and Mamo plus adding the spice of Michiru and Haruka.

3. Also, if all of the scouts had someone in the end, it might change Sailor Moon into waaaay too much of a romance. I mean, I know it's shoujo but still, fighting evil and being independent strong women is a huge part of it. It'd be hard to make a balance between the two.

These are just reasons that I could see Naoko keeping the other scouts from finding someone, but in my opinion, it would be awesome to see some of the other girls fall in love and I hope they include that in the new anime. It would be an awesome way to develop each girl's story and personality.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 4:05 pm

If we go by the manga, Rei hates men (yay Rei!) and both her and Minako come to the realization that they don't need men nor the love of a man to feel fulfilled in life. They realized that they can get that same fulfillment from Usagi and being there for her. So that kinda excludes them and allows them to really portray female empowerment.

I've always felt thought, that if any of the Senshi were to find a romantic interest, there is no way that Usagi would ever deny them of that. If anyone were to find love, it would be Makoto, possibly Setsuna (but her duty as a soldier might make it a bit difficult), Chibi-Usa, and maybe Saturn. Saturn I don't see it happened, but I wouldn't rule it out.

Anyway, if things were to occur, Usagi loves her friends to much to deny them their dreams and love. She cares about them too much to be that selfish.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 4:14 pm

But they have found love. Love for friends, love for eachother, love for their princess, love of the world and wanting to protect it.

Who says there is only one kind of love to fulfill your life with? =]

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 4:21 pm

Anjyu wrote:
Let's straighten some things out here. It is implied setsuna holds an unrequieted love for Endymion but it isn't really said if she is or not.
She does in the Musicals in the song Onna no Ronsou (Dispute Between Women):


She says (to Queen Beryl) "You loved that man. I couldn't do it... I also love him. I just kept watching." The man they are referring to is Endymion.

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
Yup. I think Haruka and Michiru are the ones who are actually the most dedicated to Usagi (Haruka comes first). They share a deep bond with Usagi like all senshi but their love for each other is in the end more important than their mission. They are still extremely dedicated to their Princess and as Jupi said they are ready to throw their lives away for Usagi and for the future if they just can be together. They cannot live without the other one but are willing to kill themselves for their Princess' sake and die together.
Yes, they do have a strong sense of protection for Usagi but, their love is more important to them than their mission to protect the Princess. If one of them dies they must be able to go on with their mission but they can't do that if they want to be together in death. The other Senshi have died for Usagi several times and so have Haruka and Michiru but they are always together and won't go on without the other. The other Senshi realize Usagi is their love and must be protected at all costs.

Perhaps this is Neptune's and Uranus' weakness? Thus if all of the Senshi had it they couldn't protect Usagi properly.

brrandiZZLe wrote:
1. I think that just goes along with the problem of Naoko not giving much plot attention to the development of the other Sailor Scouts. Haruka and Michiru were probably an exception just because their love is non-traditional.

2. If one of the other scouts found love, I think it would imply that they are prettier/better/whatever than the other scouts. If only some of them did, it would put down the few that didn't find love. If the ALL found love, that'd be way too complicated for the plot of a "children's" show. I guess it's just easier to go with Usagi and Mamo plus adding the spice of Michiru and Haruka.

3. Also, if all of the scouts had someone in the end, it might change Sailor Moon into waaaay too much of a romance. I mean, I know it's shoujo but still, fighting evil and being independent strong women is a huge part of it. It'd be hard to make a balance between the two.

Great points! I hadn't thought about these before! It would be very time consuming and tidious for Naoko to create someone for all of them! That would really take away from the fighting evil part of the show if they were constatly winning love. I do hope of a little more Senshi romance in the new anime but at the same time I sort of like their sisterhood of solitary guardians whose mission is to protect their princess.

Verdandi wrote:


But they have found love. Love for friends, love for eachother, love for their princess, love of the world and wanting to protect it.

Who says there is only one kind of love to fulfill your life with? =]
Very true! I just don't see why Neptune and Uranus can have a romantic love while the rest are platonic. I guess I am an equal oppertunist type person.


I also think maybe they are destined for the Shitennou of their past lives and since they didn't meet for enough long to reconnect before they were killed again. They just never got to fall in love again in this life like Usagi and Mamoru did.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 4:31 pm

i very much love the idea of the inner senshi and the shitennou being couples.

but anyway, i always thought the reason they wouldn't try to find love is because it makes it so much more difficult to protect her. what if they are pregnant, and an assassin tries to kill Usagi? or what if some trouble maker tries to fight the senshi themselves? also, let's not forget the birth, and raising the child...that times a lot of time and energy. meanwhile, less people would be protecting the queen. imagine how guilty any of them would feel if something happened while they were busy with other stuff! they would think, "if i had been there, things might have turned out different"

that's my thought.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 4:34 pm

Just because you love someone doesn't mean you'll necessarily have a baby with them, though its a valid point.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 4:37 pm

same difference. having a baby, on a date, just spending time together. i just thought the baby thing cause i'm so obsessed. XD

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 4:39 pm

Wow. Good point Crystalsetsuna! I laughed at the mental image of very pregnant Senshis trying to transform and gracefully perform their attacks. Raising kids does take a lot of time and energy. If they hadn't been there to protect Usagi and something bad happened then they would feel terrible.

Small Lady's right too. Love comes in many forms. Children are sometimes a symbol of that love. But there are different ways to love a spouse.

I'm so glad I asked this question! I love seeing everyone's answers and thoughts!

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 4:42 pm

I dunno, pairing the shittenou with the sailor senshi seems too... convenient and clear-cut. It is relatively difficult to determine their personal interactions, because the majority of the time we see the brainwashed side of the shittenou. The sailor senshi also seem to have limited memories of the personal interactions they shared during the Silver Millennium or at least limited memories are shared with the reader.

I like to think the other senshi do find love, whether with each other, other canons, or those not yet mentioned. The majority of the storyline takes place during middle school/high school and we all know how... unpredictable relationships during that time period can be. We may not have seen their capability to develop and hold a romantic relationship, because of their ages and maturity.

Of course, their duty could very much get in the way, but other security figures, such as the police or military, in real life can have legitimate relationships and they have similar duties. In fact, you can still serve on the police force and the military while pregnant, although your duties do change in the mean time. I don't necessarily buy the fan-canon that the sailor senshi would necessarily have to hold relationships in the future for reproductive purposes, so the line of succession and what not is held.

Oh, totally a fan of MakotoxMotoki, by the way.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 5:00 pm

@Luna Nova wrote:
Anjyu wrote:
Let's straighten some things out here. It is implied setsuna holds an unrequieted love for Endymion but it isn't really said if she is or not.
She does in the Musicals in the song Onna no Ronsou (Dispute Between Women):


She says (to Queen Beryl) "You loved that man. I couldn't do it... I also love him. I just kept watching." The man they are referring to is Endymion.

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:
Yup. I think Haruka and Michiru are the ones who are actually the most dedicated to Usagi (Haruka comes first). They share a deep bond with Usagi like all senshi but their love for each other is in the end more important than their mission. They are still extremely dedicated to their Princess and as Jupi said they are ready to throw their lives away for Usagi and for the future if they just can be together. They cannot live without the other one but are willing to kill themselves for their Princess' sake and die together.
Yes, they do have a strong sense of protection for Usagi but, their love is more important to them than their mission to protect the Princess. If one of them dies they must be able to go on with their mission but they can't do that if they want to be together in death. The other Senshi have died for Usagi several times and so have Haruka and Michiru but they are always together and won't go on without the other. The other Senshi realize Usagi is their love and must be protected at all costs.

Perhaps this is Neptune's and Uranus' weakness? Thus if all of the Senshi had it they couldn't protect Usagi properly.

It's a little bit complicated. They're always fighting together and they die together, but as we have seen they cannot live without the other one. They share everything and if somebody asked me 'What if Neptune had a Talisman but Haruka didn't?' I think she had been torn apart because of Neptune's death, tried to find the other talismans and followed her lover to death, for a different reason of course since they were both carrying Talismans in their hearts. If one of them died I think the other one would literary die for sorrow and kill herself to follow her lover Sad... (Stop making me think so sad things! I'm crying all the time now ;___Wink And still they're the most dedicated to protect Usagi...(apart from mamoru of course)

It could be the same with the other senshi, too, but Haruka's and Michiru's relationship has something special and different from other relationships. I think it's because they're soul mates, halves of one another, one person when together so when the other one dies the other follows. They share a bond so deep that even death cannot break it.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 5:09 pm

Small Lady wrote:
If we go by the manga, Rei hates men (yay Rei!) and both her and Minako come to the realization that they don't need men nor the love of a man to feel fulfilled in life. They realized that they can get that same fulfillment from Usagi and being there for her. So that kinda excludes them and allows them to really portray female empowerment.
this.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 5:09 pm

Ooo I love this topic. Brilliant Very Happy

You know, to say the senshi can't find love isn't fair. Honestly, it isn't. Because they probably could, but their lovers would have to be number two while Usagi is number one. When you are with someone, you tend to raise them to spot number one, which can cause problems for the senshi if say the world was ever in danger as well as Usagi. That means they'd have to make the choice of ultimately defending Usagi or their lover. That would make a very sticky situation considering the love for Usagi and the love for a lover are very different. It would be hard, if not impossible, to live without the other if they had to choose. If they protect Usagi, they have to abandon their lover and vice versa in the end.

So, if you want to get technical, they can have lovers/find love, but their lovers would have to always be number two in comparison with Usagi. Or, they'd have to abandon their princess for their lover (unless they get lucky and save both, but their primary focus needs to be on one or the other).

Haruka and Michiru I believe understand that Usagi needs to come first, so she does. At the same time though, they're soldiers; a total perk. Meaning, if they need to, they can die together, protecting their princess. Basically like a loophole so they don't need to live without the other and they also didn't abandon their duty. Does that make sense?

Loopholing would be way easier if basically the senshi found love with each other; basically yeah, femslashing (and it is a series of all women, lol). Otherwise they are left in an extremely tough situation.


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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 5:34 pm

I guess I could perhaps see it like this.

Ami: very studious and will probably go to medical school and perhaps focus on her career more than a relationship

Rei: perhaps may get involved with yuichiro later anime wise.

Minako: I believe she's always destined to love but never be loved.

Makoto: always focused on old bfs and such. I think she will eventually settle down with someone.

Setsuna: she is the time guardian and I think will never find love because she's just destined to be alone.

Hotaru: she's young and often misunderstood. I don't think shes rather young and maybe she could possibly find love later.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 5:51 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:

Haruka and Michiru I believe understand that Usagi needs to come first, so she does. At the same time though, they're soldiers; a total perk. Meaning, if they need to, they can die together, protecting their princess. Basically like a loophole so they don't need to live without the other and they also didn't abandon their duty. Does that make sense?

This. This was just what I meant Following their duty and mission as senshi and following their love they live and die together, giving their lives for their Princess' sake and being together. Like seen in episode 198 when they had trusted their mission to Starlights (when they were already dying and couldn't protect Usagi anymore) the only thing they could focus on was the one which had always been and will always be the most important to both of them; each other. So when they knew their mission was finished and they could do nothing for Usagi anymore they focused on each other, on their love.

(Forum bestie-twinsies attack again !)

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 5:57 pm

Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:


(Forum bestie-twinsies attack again !)

Yes! XDD you are terribly cute.

But yes, basically this. It's a lovely little loophole Haruka and Michiru probably figured out; hence probably their fighting style/strategy. Lucky them to fall for each other, given they wanted to be in love. If there's a senshi that say didn't want to be, like Rei (since she hates men), there's no problem. But if she happened to say fall for Minako and vice versa, well they'd probably find the same loophole as Haruka and Michiru.

That's pretty much why I feel like the two are able to be together; because they're soul mates and senshi. This makes it a bit easier on them. If one of them wasn't, well that would demonstrate what I mean -- they'd have to choose between their lover or Usagi.

I feel like though Minako wants to be in a romantic relationship, she's okay with the fact that she cannot be. She knows her duty and her heart ultimately lie with Usagi. Usagi is her true, ultimate love, even if it's not romantic/sexual.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 6:01 pm

I also want to make the point, that i just thought of, that from what i remember, its never explicitly stated that they cannot find love, with the exception of Minako of course.

But no where in any of the series is it mentioned that the other Soldiers cannot find love in the sense of a romantic relationship. As stated before, of course they find love in their duty, friendship, dedication to Usagi, etc.

But i don't think it was ever stated that the girls are not allowed to find love.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 6:09 pm

Small Lady wrote:
I also want to make the point, that i just thought of, that from what i remember, its never explicitly stated that they cannot find love, with the exception of Minako of course.

But no where in any of the series is it mentioned that the other Soldiers cannot find love in the sense of a romantic relationship. As stated before, of course they find love in their duty, friendship, dedication to Usagi, etc.

But i don't think it was ever stated that the girls are not allowed to find love.

That is definitely nice to know Smile

I still feel like it'd be a sticky situation if the world were ever in danger though by that point. Let's hope that doesn't happen in the future.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 6:10 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
Tsuki-no-Kagayaki wrote:


(Forum bestie-twinsies attack again !)

Yes! XDD you are terribly cute.

But yes, basically this. It's a lovely little loophole Haruka and Michiru probably figured out; hence probably their fighting style/strategy. Lucky them to fall for each other, given they wanted to be in love. If there's a senshi that say didn't want to be, like Rei (since she hates men), there's no problem. But if she happened to say fall for Minako and vice versa, well they'd probably find the same loophole as Haruka and Michiru.

That's pretty much why I feel like the two are able to be together; because they're soul mates and senshi. This makes it a bit easier on them. If one of them wasn't, well that would demonstrate what I mean -- they'd have to choose between their lover or Usagi.

I feel like though Minako wants to be in a romantic relationship, she's okay with the fact that she cannot be. She knows her duty and her heart ultimately lie with Usagi. Usagi is her true, ultimate love, even if it's not romantic/sexual.

XD thank you It's true

Isn't it wonderful that they both share the same duty and fate as senshi and still fell in love with each other not because of any faith or destiny? Being soul mates and sharing the same duty they fell in love with each other not caring about destiny or anything else but were just attracted and bond to each other because of their reals selves and personalities <3?

And I agree that Minako would like to be in a romantic relationship but as she said in the manga with Rei 'We don't need any men'

(Why do my posts change into HaruMichi posts ?)

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 8:14 pm

I think that they can find love. The thing is that they don't want to. At least nothing serious.

As for Rei, it is very implied that she really hates men and Minako, since she IS the goddess of love, she can't find true love for herself.

And, for Ami, she is just so focused on her studies(I actually like the theory that she has autism, so that makes A LOT of sense and turns her whole story into a more beautiful one). Makoto has a lot of difficulties finding men because of the way she is, tomboy-ish and very very tall. That makes most men very scared, so she may find love, but it will take some time. Buuut, I do love the PGSM finale, with her and Motoki together. For some reason, I just think she is truly the one for him, and not Reika.

Setsuna can't have anyone, since she is the guardkeeper and Hotaru is just so young!

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 8:41 pm

MiMakoChan wrote:
Hotaru is just so young!

But its not like she won't grow old. xD

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 8:46 pm

i know, but I can't think of her with anyone because I have this image of her being young

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 8:48 pm

I know this is very random and dumb but it just kind of pisses me off that the senshi are so dedicated to Usagi. I mean it just seems like to me that she's always needing someone to protect her and everyone is always dying for her and I understand because she's the pure epitome of good which is so cliche. I guess. Just wish their senshi duties would one day and everyone could be normal. Sorry just my rant.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 8:57 pm

No, here's the annoying part. At least in the anime, the senshi are basically nearly useless. It's basically all about Usagi because she's so powerful. The senshi always miss or the attacks aren't strong enough and you're just like "really? They're her guardians. As guardians, they have to be strong enough to protect her. Guard her."

Yeah, the outers are stronger than the inners, but still...

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 9:00 pm

Yes I agree tuxedo! They actually in a way should be stronger than her. Heck they can't even destroy a youma without her!

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 9:19 pm

i think thats just the anime though... the anime delevels everyone. the other three versions, everyones alot more powerful and less reliant on whatever usagi's latest attack is

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is it Fair? Why Can't the Other Senshi find Love?   4th September 2012, 10:04 pm

I agree Tuxie, Anjyu and Miki! But I luckily do remember some memorable anime scenes and far more manga scenes where the senshi (especially the Outers) save the day. At least Usagi needs their powers in the manga but it still seems that Naoko and the animators decided to make the senshi powerful for about 10% of scene time and Usagi taking the 90% left even though I can swear she is the one who would've gotten killed who knows how many times without her guardians. I know she's the main character but I certainly hoped the others would've gotten more time to shine. Character songs are a good spice for that, as well as the very few episodes dedicated to the senshi.

Sorry for the off topic post but I just felt I had to say this XD

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