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 Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?

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Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?
Yes
74%
 74% [ 28 ]
No
16%
 16% [ 6 ]
I'm not sure
10%
 10% [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 38
 

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   24th September 2012, 4:39 am

To add the shortest reply in this debate:

Yes, he does love her.
The writers in the anime are just very bad at portraying it.

It's not Mamoru's fault, he's just the victim of continuously bad writing when it comes to his character. (Which unfortunately makes me completely unable to like him in the anime.)

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   24th September 2012, 12:08 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
I meant refeuling because she probably had doubts with herself because she felt awful with what happened with Seiya because something was there, just moreso with Seiya than there was with Usagi. And what I mean by her having doubts would be she could have felt like she messed up, like she caused Seiya to like her, she caused that complex, like she isn't good enough for Mamoru, etc. Usagi probably needed that extra boost for herself. You more or less ask someone why they love you simply to give yourself a boost and see that the person you asked does love you and for the right reasons. You don't ask just to ask. Unless you're like, conceited and love being praised. And Usagi doesn't strike me as the latter, so...
SO you think that Usagi first confirmed that Mamoru really loves her and only then went on to explain Seiya situation?


Lady Tuxedo wrote:
Since I know the complexity of relationships, I look at them with that lens. Yeah, they love each other and are soul mates and all that, but they are not that flawless. Who would want to be that flawless? That would be the most boring relationship ever. That's how a relationship dies. There's no spark, there's nothing that changes, there's no fights to open up communication, there's no passion, etc. So the relationship crumbles from boredom. And I would hope, since Usagi and Mamoru are soul mates, that they would be complex (even if we don't always see how), otherwise, it would die off.

So why people demand from Mamoru perfection and want to bring quillotine any time he isn't prince charming condensed? Though he is probably the character who develops the most.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   24th September 2012, 12:31 pm

@EurAsianGirl wrote:


1. Yes, him taking the attacks for Usagi CAN just mean friendship and not love, if I saw one of my dear friends being beaten to death by some wacky alien monster you better believe I would take the brunt for them! Mamoru is just that kind of guy, its in his nature to protect people, why do you think why he becomes an unofficial part of the Sailor Team? Very Happy His whole personality and persona is all about justice so of course he would of done that for anybody, especially someone he's beginning to become good friends with!

Even if he would, it is indicated that it's not the case by the comments of Ali and especially of Moonlight Knight, who knows something of Mamoru's feelings...

@EurAsianGirl wrote:
2. No, I'm sorry but the "fat" comment didn't indicate whatsoever that Mamoru loves Usagi no matter how she looks, it indicated that he's a thoughtless jerk that doesn't care about offending the girlfriend he supposedly "loves." That comment was extremely rude, out of place, and dare I say had undertones of Mamoru suggesting that Usagi go on a diet. Plus, it was fat-shaming something I'm not particularly fond of...

Well, how about Usagi being rude and thoughless jerk for constantly suspecting Mamoru of cheting on her and offending this honourable guy?

I agree though that it was too much of a blunt honesty Mamoru seemed to already be over. Still, is it better to constantly be about Mamoru's good looks, which Usagi does in S and SuperS? And how can she be on diet when he takes her on cakes and icecream?

@EurAsianGirl wrote:
3. How on earth could you like the Anime Mamoru and Anime lovestory of Usagi/Mamoru over the manga and PGSM?!?! Shocked ESPECIALLY PGSM? Are you kidding me? Seriously? I--I don't even... The anime is the whole reason there's even an argument for this thread in the first place! It's got to be the most sloppily done version of the Miracle Romance depicted in all canons of Sailor Moon! It feels forced, too abrupt and Mamoru is just down-right mean and cold sometimes!

IMO it's not done sloppily, abrupt or forced for me and I don't see Mamoru as mean and cold, except when he pretended to be so during breakup.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   24th September 2012, 12:39 pm

@EurAsianGirl wrote:

Also even though he says he's not, that little convo definitely made it seem like he's somewhat disappointed in who Usagi is and wants her to become like more of a lady, whereas someone like Seiya never cared about what grades she got or how silly she could be in public, he found that charming and never wanted her to change.

Seiya never cared about what grades she got, because all important for him was to get a perfect grade he could show off. And Usagi was never as embarrassing in Stars, only sometimes ditzy. I'm not sure whether it's because of her sadness or should it be seen as maturity on her part? Maybe both.

Mamoru openly declares he wishes Usagi not change.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   24th September 2012, 1:14 pm

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Lady Tuxedo wrote:
I meant refeuling because she probably had doubts with herself because she felt awful with what happened with Seiya because something was there, just moreso with Seiya than there was with Usagi. And what I mean by her having doubts would be she could have felt like she messed up, like she caused Seiya to like her, she caused that complex, like she isn't good enough for Mamoru, etc. Usagi probably needed that extra boost for herself. You more or less ask someone why they love you simply to give yourself a boost and see that the person you asked does love you and for the right reasons. You don't ask just to ask. Unless you're like, conceited and love being praised. And Usagi doesn't strike me as the latter, so...
SO you think that Usagi first confirmed that Mamoru really loves her and only then went on to explain Seiya situation?

Um, in terms of like reassuring herself. Like she's worthy (again so absurd for her to think she's not worthy). She felt like she messed up. That much is clear. People like hearing it when they feel like they messed up. Obviously he loves her, but she wanted that boost.


@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Lady Tuxedo wrote:
Since I know the complexity of relationships, I look at them with that lens. Yeah, they love each other and are soul mates and all that, but they are not that flawless. Who would want to be that flawless? That would be the most boring relationship ever. That's how a relationship dies. There's no spark, there's nothing that changes, there's no fights to open up communication, there's no passion, etc. So the relationship crumbles from boredom. And I would hope, since Usagi and Mamoru are soul mates, that they would be complex (even if we don't always see how), otherwise, it would die off.

So why people demand from Mamoru perfection and want to bring quillotine any time he isn't prince charming condensed? Though he is probably the character who develops the most.

I don't expect perfection, but I do think some areas he could work on, just like anyone else. I don't think he's a terrible boyfriend or messed up character. I quite like him. :3 but since he's different, I can just see him and Usagi with other people. It's apart of the fandom to ship people with others, create crackships (i.e. Usagi and Michiru = wtf? but it's a real crackship), etc. It's just for fun. Not to be taken super seriously. Especially when there's already canon.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   25th September 2012, 5:03 am

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Lady Tuxedo wrote:
I meant refeuling because she probably had doubts with herself because she felt awful with what happened with Seiya because something was there, just moreso with Seiya than there was with Usagi. And what I mean by her having doubts would be she could have felt like she messed up, like she caused Seiya to like her, she caused that complex, like she isn't good enough for Mamoru, etc. Usagi probably needed that extra boost for herself. You more or less ask someone why they love you simply to give yourself a boost and see that the person you asked does love you and for the right reasons. You don't ask just to ask. Unless you're like, conceited and love being praised. And Usagi doesn't strike me as the latter, so...
SO you think that Usagi first confirmed that Mamoru really loves her and only then went on to explain Seiya situation?


Lady Tuxedo wrote:
Since I know the complexity of relationships, I look at them with that lens. Yeah, they love each other and are soul mates and all that, but they are not that flawless. Who would want to be that flawless? That would be the most boring relationship ever. That's how a relationship dies. There's no spark, there's nothing that changes, there's no fights to open up communication, there's no passion, etc. So the relationship crumbles from boredom. And I would hope, since Usagi and Mamoru are soul mates, that they would be complex (even if we don't always see how), otherwise, it would die off.

So why people demand from Mamoru perfection and want to bring quillotine any time he isn't prince charming condensed? Though he is probably the character who develops the most.

I guess people don't do this to Usagi because really, she doesn't need it. You could clearly see by all her clinging and over-the topness that she really does love Mamoru and will always show it whenever she can. Mamoru though is very much a mystery and this isn't displayed quite so much with him, so fans tend to interpret his behaivors differently compared to Usagi, particularly in the anime.

0_0 Who wants to "quillotine" him? Just because some people think that maybe he's not a good match for Usagi doesn't mean we hate the character, Mamoru is one of my favorite characters in all the versions, he's extremely interesting I just happen to think that in the anime he would maybe be better off with someone like Setsuna.

I can't believe though that you think the manga and PGSM is more forced and abrupt than the anime! The anime, they literally just STARTED liking each other when they got their memories back, in the manga and PGSM their relationship took time to develop even beyond that, so by the time they got their memories back they were already in love with each other, way past the "like" stage.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   25th September 2012, 11:48 am

Lady Tuxedo wrote:

Um, in terms of like reassuring herself. Like she's worthy (again so absurd for her to think she's not worthy). She felt like she messed up. That much is clear. People like hearing it when they feel like they messed up. Obviously he loves her, but she wanted that boost.
But if she felt like she had messed up, would she rather talk about what happened with Mamoru?

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
I don't expect perfection, but I do think some areas he could work on, just like anyone else. I don't think he's a terrible boyfriend or messed up character. I quite like him. :3 but since he's different, I can just see him and Usagi with other people. It's apart of the fandom to ship people with others, create crackships (i.e. Usagi and Michiru = wtf? but it's a real crackship), etc. It's just for fun. Not to be taken super seriously. Especially when there's already canon.

I get that people ship for fun (and Usagi and Michiru isn't that crackship ) and it's ok. I however take it seriously and maybe get a little overprotective when canon is attacked.

And Mamoru does work on many areas, probably more than any other character in this series. He really changed because of Usagi

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   25th September 2012, 12:23 pm

@EurAsianGirl wrote:

I guess people don't do this to Usagi because really, she doesn't need it. You could clearly see by all her clinging and over-the topness that she really does love Mamoru and will always show it whenever she can. Mamoru though is very much a mystery and this isn't displayed quite so much with him, so fans tend to interpret his behaivors differently compared to Usagi, particularly in the anime.

Mamoru isn't mystery, he's reserved.

And yes, all her clinging and over-the topness - but she also constantly offends him with her jealousy, even accusing him of intention of stealing elderly lady's money (when I seriously expected Mamoru to slam the door in her face), asks him to choose between her and their daughter, looks at other guys - she even chases after Haruka and declares "him" to be much atteactive than Mamoru, comes late at their dates (even when he's about to go to States) and even stands him out when she's to occupied with Chibiusa's love life.

So it's not sweet Red Riding Hood and Mean Wolf story. Nor Beauty and the Beast.


@EurAsianGirl wrote:
0_0 Who wants to "quillotine" him? Just because some people think that maybe he's not a good match for Usagi doesn't mean we hate the character, Mamoru is one of my favorite characters in all the versions, he's extremely interesting I just happen to think that in the anime he would maybe be better off with someone like Setsuna.

But why do you think she would be better off with Setsuna?

And Mamoru is the most hated character in fandom. I'm glad to meet exceptions.

@EurAsianGirl wrote:
I can't believe though that you think the manga and PGSM is more forced and abrupt than the anime! The anime, they literally just STARTED liking each other when they got their memories back, in the manga and PGSM their relationship took time to develop even beyond that, so by the time they got their memories back they were already in love with each other, way past the "like" stage.

Not forced. But in manga Mamoru immediately knew Usagi was Sailor Moon and she learnt that he was Tuxedo Mask also quite soon. There was almost no double romance and to little their interest in each other as ordinary people.

In PGSM the tension was greatly caused by his fiancee, who had to break off with him.

And in anime they got their memories back, when they were already in love.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   25th September 2012, 1:04 pm

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Lady Tuxedo wrote:

Um, in terms of like reassuring herself. Like she's worthy (again so absurd for her to think she's not worthy). She felt like she messed up. That much is clear. People like hearing it when they feel like they messed up. Obviously he loves her, but she wanted that boost.
But if she felt like she had messed up, would she rather talk about what happened with Mamoru?


Of course, but she'd want a little pick me up. Otherwise, why would she have asked how Mamoru felt for her when she obviously knew?

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Lady Tuxedo wrote:
I don't expect perfection, but I do think some areas he could work on, just like anyone else. I don't think he's a terrible boyfriend or messed up character. I quite like him. :3 but since he's different, I can just see him and Usagi with other people. It's apart of the fandom to ship people with others, create crackships (i.e. Usagi and Michiru = wtf? but it's a real crackship), etc. It's just for fun. Not to be taken super seriously. Especially when there's already canon.


I get that people ship for fun (and Usagi and Michiru isn't that crackship ) and it's ok. I however take it seriously and maybe get a little overprotective when canon is attacked.

It is totally crackship. I have no idea how people see Usagi and Michiru. Haruka and Usagi, sure, but Usagi and Michiru? Wut?

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
And Mamoru does work on many areas, probably more than any other character in this series. He really changed because of Usagi


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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   25th September 2012, 3:06 pm

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
@EurAsianGirl wrote:

I guess people don't do this to Usagi because really, she doesn't need it. You could clearly see by all her clinging and over-the topness that she really does love Mamoru and will always show it whenever she can. Mamoru though is very much a mystery and this isn't displayed quite so much with him, so fans tend to interpret his behaivors differently compared to Usagi, particularly in the anime.

Mamoru isn't mystery, he's reserved.

And yes, all her clinging and over-the topness - but she also constantly offends him with her jealousy, even accusing him of intention of stealing elderly lady's money (when I seriously expected Mamoru to slam the door in her face), asks him to choose between her and their daughter, looks at other guys - she even chases after Haruka and declares "him" to be much atteactive than Mamoru, comes late at their dates (even when he's about to go to States) and even stands him out when she's to occupied with Chibiusa's love life.

So it's not sweet Red Riding Hood and Mean Wolf story. Nor Beauty and the Beast.


@EurAsianGirl wrote:
0_0 Who wants to "quillotine" him? Just because some people think that maybe he's not a good match for Usagi doesn't mean we hate the character, Mamoru is one of my favorite characters in all the versions, he's extremely interesting I just happen to think that in the anime he would maybe be better off with someone like Setsuna.

But why do you think she would be better off with Setsuna?

And Mamoru is the most hated character in fandom. I'm glad to meet exceptions.

@EurAsianGirl wrote:
I can't believe though that you think the manga and PGSM is more forced and abrupt than the anime! The anime, they literally just STARTED liking each other when they got their memories back, in the manga and PGSM their relationship took time to develop even beyond that, so by the time they got their memories back they were already in love with each other, way past the "like" stage.

Not forced. But in manga Mamoru immediately knew Usagi was Sailor Moon and she learnt that he was Tuxedo Mask also quite soon. There was almost no double romance and to little their interest in each other as ordinary people.

In PGSM the tension was greatly caused by his fiancee, who had to break off with him.

And in anime they got their memories back, when they were already in love.

True, Usagi isn't some perfect angel, she's done just as bad, or even worse things than Mamoru in the relationship. Its hard to doubt her feelings though cause we see them again and again while the anime rarely shows Mamoru's lol

0_0 I thought Chibi-Usa was the most hated character in the fandom? Mamoru even tops HER? Weird... What's he done that was so bad to make people hate him? I mean, aside from the constant brainwashing, getting kidnapped, and the whole R break-up, none of those things were under his control so I really don't understand all this hate towards him. Is it because he's the only male main character and thus gets in the way of all the "les yay?" >.> ((This tends to happen in fandoms were yaoi is rampant too and the cast is mostly male, only during those times the hate is directed towards the only female))

I don't know... I just think Setsuna is a better match for him. She has his same personality, his tempermant, and I always felt so bad for her unrequited love, you could tell she really really loved him! That song she sang in Myu... Oh god, poor thing Sad I'm a sucker for unrequited love stories so I kinda always wanted her to have her happy ending, and besides I think at least as far as the anime goes, she would've suited him better anyways. They have alot in common and would be able to be on the same level.

Um... no... The tension with Hina in PGSM was caused PRECISELY BECAUSE Mamoru and Usagi were starting to fall in love with each other, their interest was romantic, whereas in the anime you can't really tell as it looks just more friendly.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   25th September 2012, 3:26 pm

Well first, where are you getting hate nods towards Chibiusa, EurAsianGirl? o_o there are none in this thread, unless I missed it. No one has shown any hate and whenever I mention something in a negative light about a character I say "I don't hate so and so".

And then, I wouldn't say you hardly see any reciprocated love from Mamoru that Usagi shows for him. It may be a little harder to see, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. o_o it's not a one-sided relationship. Btw, I detect you bounce between supporting whether Mamoru loves Usagi or not o.o which is it?

I can understand shipping characters with others, even canon ships, but yeah.... o.o"

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   26th September 2012, 11:21 am

Lady Tuxedo wrote:

Of course, but she'd want a little pick me up. Otherwise, why would she have asked how Mamoru felt for her when she obviously knew?
Maybe a little foreplay?

What meaning would have Mamoru's reassurances if he was not aware of how she felt?

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
It is totally crackship. I have no idea how people see Usagi and Michiru. Haruka and Usagi, sure, but Usagi and Michiru? Wut?

Well, they know each other, which is a good start. Then, Michiru thinks Usagi is cute and Usagi thinks Michiru is elegant and gracious...

Crackship would i.e. Beryl/Fisheye.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   26th September 2012, 12:35 pm

@EurAsianGirl wrote:

True, Usagi isn't some perfect angel, she's done just as bad, or even worse things than Mamoru in the relationship. Its hard to doubt her feelings though cause we see them again and again while the anime rarely shows Mamoru's lol

I don't think it shows rarely - he has that look at her as if she was the only woman in the world `He expresses no interest in other women. He remembers other girls as her friends. He's always ready to jump to her help when she's in danger or hold her when she's weak or unconcious. He adopts her friends and spends time tutoring them, even when he lacks time. He trusts her completely and never displays any jealousy. He doesn't hold grudge about her outbursts. He calls her for two days when her telephone is busy. When he is seriously ill in SuperS, he thinks only that he can not support her. When he's gravely injured defending her from Zoicite, all he cares is that she's well. When he dies in the end of first season he asks her to find a good boyfriend. When he is evil, he's unable to hurt her. He cries because of her, eats her cookies and takes on double date her cat and cat's boyfriend. He tells her about his past, but he doesn't care about his loneliness of lifetime, as he has her now. He reacts stoically on having his kitchen ruined.

Sure, it's the anime's abominable flaw that he doesn't repeat every few episodes "I adore you, my sweet little pony", but maybe he deserves a C- or so?

@EurAsianGirl wrote:
I don't know... I just think Setsuna is a better match for him. She has his same personality, his tempermant, and I always felt so bad for her unrequited love, you could tell she really really loved him! That song she sang in Myu... Oh god, poor thing Sad I'm a sucker for unrequited love stories so I kinda always wanted her to have her happy ending, and besides I think at least as far as the anime goes, she would've suited him better anyways. They have alot in common and would be able to be on the same level.

Setsuna rather was in love with King Endymion, not Mamoru... Mamoru seems too young for her. I don't also see them as having a lot in common - besides having calm temperaments and being above others in maturity. But Mamoru has fetish for odango hair, so setsuna would not attract him


@EurAsianGirl wrote:
Um... no... The tension with Hina in PGSM was caused PRECISELY BECAUSE Mamoru and Usagi were starting to fall in love with each other, their interest was romantic, whereas in the anime you can't really tell as it looks just more friendly.

Not just more friendly - there's definitively UST between them. They really take pleasure in their accidental meetings, are interested in each other. Usagi's not so happy about idea of Rei with Mamoru, notices him handsome, starts initiating their meetings and feels guilty because of her feelings for Tuxedo.

And yes, Hina was introduced when the tension was needed and left when it stopped being necessary. A little too convenient...

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   27th September 2012, 9:17 am

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
Well first, where are you getting hate nods towards Chibiusa, EurAsianGirl? o_o there are none in this thread, unless I missed it. No one has shown any hate and whenever I mention something in a negative light about a character I say "I don't hate so and so".

And then, I wouldn't say you hardly see any reciprocated love from Mamoru that Usagi shows for him. It may be a little harder to see, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. o_o it's not a one-sided relationship. Btw, I detect you bounce between supporting whether Mamoru loves Usagi or not o.o which is it?

I can understand shipping characters with others, even canon ships, but yeah.... o.o"

Oh, I just mentioned that because Moonlight Lady said in her previous post that Mamoru was the most hated character in fandom and I just wondered if he was even more hated than Chibi-Usa, doesn't matter cause I love them both but yeah.

Actually for the sake of this thread, I think I'll stick with the "Anime Mamoru doesn't love Usagi in that way side" if only cause there's no one else debating that side, so it might as well be me, I really do ship them in reality though, even the horrible anime version lol.

But yeah, I totally agree that Mamoru does show his love for Usagi and many times at that, but the love he shows looks more like a fatherly type of love instead of a romantic, passionate type love and it just begs the question if he really sees Usagi as an equal.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   27th September 2012, 9:43 am

I dunno. I wouldn't say he is fatherly to her. Can you point out where? And also, man, I don't think fathers look at their girls that way or kiss them the way he does or anything else Mamoru does for her. If that were happening...proooooblemmm.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   27th September 2012, 12:34 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
When people criticize Mamoru for reading a book or what Mamoru says in regard to Usagi getting a 5% is the way he handled the situation.

To be honest, I just think it's crap that he was reading when she was talking to him. He could have easily slipped in his bookmark for a moment to listen to her and then resumed reading when she was finished.

And then to be honest again, I don't see him as doing anything wrong when he snuck up on Usagi and saw that she got a 5% (I thought it was rather hilarious and totally saw it coming). He wasn't cold or mean or scolding or anything. He just said "we may not be able to date for awhile until you get your grades up". I thought he was right to say that. He does care about her and love her and he demonstrates this by saying basically "as much as I love you, your grades are more important right now (you are the future queen) and if I have to, I will sacrifice our fun until your grades are up. This isn't a break up or anything, this is just to get you studying to get your grades up. We can do fun things again when you start doing better, Usako."

And she obviously knew it wasn't a break up, otherwise she would've flipped out 100x harder (like she did in the R season). But I definitely think he was right on that one and that was a good example of his love for her. The reading a book thing while she was talking to him, not so much. But no one is perfect. He's gonna mess up just like anybody else. Everybody messes up sometimes.

I also thought it was hilarious and quite sweet - reminiscing of their first meeting

And Mamoru could listen to Usagi when he was reading that book-he kept track on what she was saying.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   27th September 2012, 12:59 pm

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
And Mamoru could listen to Usagi when he was reading that book-he kept track on what she was saying.
That's really beside the point though. He could have been listening completely, he could have been sort of half listening, we can't really tell for sure by his answer of simply just brushing it off, but what's really important here is just the act of looking down into the book.
I think most people will agree that if they're talking to someone, and especially if they're sharing their worries with that person, and that person is looking away from them, then that qualifies as pretty rude. And if that person is actually focusing on something completely different than you, whether it's a book, a TV, a cellphone, anything at all, then that's at least twice as rude. And if that person also happens to be your boyfriend who you're gonna marry, have kids with, and rule the world side by side with in the future... well, the levels of rude are just off the chart.

It was just such an odd thing for the writers and animators of the movie to do. Why paint Mamoru in such an obviously negative light? No matter how much you twist it, there is just no getting around that his behavior was incredibly rude. I personally feel very negatively towards Anime-Mamoru in general, but I also believe that a lot of the things I find so unlikeable about him weren't really intenteded to be perceived as unlikeable, they just sort of ended up looking that way to me and people who agree with me. But... this is just... I don't even know.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   27th September 2012, 1:02 pm

@Louchan wrote:
@Moonlight Lady wrote:
And Mamoru could listen to Usagi when he was reading that book-he kept track on what she was saying.
That's really beside the point though. He could have been listening completely, he could have been sort of half listening, we can't really tell for sure by his answer of simply just brushing it off, but what's really important here is just the act of looking down into the book.
I think most people will agree that if they're talking to someone, and especially if they're sharing their worries with that person, and that person is looking away from them, then that qualifies as pretty rude. And if that person is actually focusing on something completely different than you, whether it's a book, a TV, a cellphone, anything at all, then that's at least twice as rude. And if that person also happens to be your boyfriend who you're gonna marry, have kids with, and rule the world side by side with in the future... well, the levels of rude are just off the chart.

Of course. I already stated something like this before. It irks me when I just talk to my friends and they're on their phones or something when I want their attention. There's one person pretty special to me that does this and it's just...ugh. It makes me sad and mad and feel like I'm boring her or something. I get that she can't just sit and do one thing, but she can preoccupy this need with something else.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   28th September 2012, 3:32 am

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
I dunno. I wouldn't say he is fatherly to her. Can you point out where? And also, man, I don't think fathers look at their girls that way or kiss them the way he does or anything else Mamoru does for her. If that were happening...proooooblemmm.

For example in the R movie, when Usagi wanted to kiss Mamoru was just looking for a way, anyway to get out of it! And when he found one, you could see how relieved he looked!

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   28th September 2012, 7:29 am

japanese don't show their affection like usagi does. so, he wasn't embarrassed, it's just that they are reserved people

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   28th September 2012, 9:26 am

MiMakoChan wrote:
japanese don't show their affection like usagi does. so, he wasn't embarrassed, it's just that they are reserved people

And not even that, but just because you don't want to kiss someone right that second doesn't say you love them in an entirely different way (i.e. oh this means he loves her in a fatherly or brotherly way). It just means, you don't want to right this second. Nothing more. You are allowed to turn down kisses, even if you're happily in love.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   28th September 2012, 9:38 am

yeah, that too =)

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   28th September 2012, 11:19 am

Not to mention, I think that scene in the movie was written that way to be funny. Everyone was spying on Usagi and Mamoru and obviously Mamoru knew (he was looking around before making a decision). Then he decided not to and it was funny. He's a reserved, private guy, so naturally he wouldn't want people watching him. I wouldn't, either.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   28th September 2012, 12:26 pm

During that movie R scene I actually hold grudge against girls, not Mamoru. They also complain about their daring to do it in public... - it shows how the social rules go there.

I believe that in most of "evil Mamoru" we are meant to sympathise with him and as Lady Tuxedo said, it's played for laughs

As for Usagi and Mamoru kissing - I noticed that when Usagi wants a kiss from Mamoru, she gives her lips and waits for him to act (she doesn't kiss him first as she sometimes does in manga), whereas when he does - he simply looks at her as if she was the only one at the world, without pressing her Who could doubt his adoration?

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   28th September 2012, 1:24 pm

@Louchan wrote:
@Moonlight Lady wrote:
And Mamoru could listen to Usagi when he was reading that book-he kept track on what she was saying.
That's really beside the point though. He could have been listening completely, he could have been sort of half listening, we can't really tell for sure by his answer of simply just brushing it off, but what's really important here is just the act of looking down into the book.
I think most people will agree that if they're talking to someone, and especially if they're sharing their worries with that person, and that person is looking away from them, then that qualifies as pretty rude. And if that person is actually focusing on something completely different than you, whether it's a book, a TV, a cellphone, anything at all, then that's at least twice as rude. And if that person also happens to be your boyfriend who you're gonna marry, have kids with, and rule the world side by side with in the future... well, the levels of rude are just off the chart.

But why this should increase the level of rude? if you find that rude, why should it matter who does it?

I didn't see his answer as brushing it off - IMO it's a good balance between honestly expressing his opinion that Usagi overworries without offending her. He thought about finding right words.

Personally I don't think one must focus himself completely on another person for the whole time.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   28th September 2012, 1:37 pm

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
I meant refeuling because she probably had doubts with herself because she felt awful with what happened with Seiya because something was there, just moreso with Seiya than there was with Usagi. And what I mean by her having doubts would be she could have felt like she messed up, like she caused Seiya to like her, she caused that complex, like she isn't good enough for Mamoru, etc. Usagi probably needed that extra boost for herself. You more or less ask someone why they love you simply to give yourself a boost and see that the person you asked does love you and for the right reasons. You don't ask just to ask. Unless you're like, conceited and love being praised. And Usagi doesn't strike me as the latter, so...


I've been pondering this and about needing that boost. IMO, she there was well over the whole situation with Seiya at the time, so it was not the reason. But she might need the extra confidence because of their long separation. Yes, she knew the reason for his silence, but still she needed the special words as plant needs additional water after drought.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   28th September 2012, 9:26 pm

I am just throwing out here that I have a newfound love for Usagi and Mamoru, anime aside. So pfffft. hell yeah he loves her.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   28th September 2012, 11:45 pm

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
But why this should increase the level of rude? if you find that rude, why should it matter who does it?

I didn't see his answer as brushing it off - IMO it's a good balance between honestly expressing his opinion that Usagi overworries without offending her. He thought about finding right words.

Personally I don't think one must focus himself completely on another person for the whole time.
Because if you're talking with someone you love and who also loves you back then it's to be expected that he pays you full attention when you're talking about something you feel is important. It hits even harder when that one special person, who you should be able to share your worries the most with, just doesn't seem interested in what you have to say.
And I must add, I just went and looked at that scene more closely again, and Usagi literally has to pull at Mamoru's arm in order to get him to respond to her.


And while I can understand that he might have thought she was overreacting and tried to assure her that it was probably nothing, I still think it feels like he brushed it off. Maybe having been so busy reading a book a second before saying so might have something to do with it, but yeah.

And it doesn't bother you if people are reading while you're talking to them? That's great, I suppose... but I really think it should bother you, because I feel it has to do with respect.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   28th September 2012, 11:52 pm

Once I went through this looong phase where I really didn't like anime Mamoru. But I don't know, after my rewatch of the entire anime, I appreciate him alot more in it.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Does Anime Mamoru truly love Usagi?   29th September 2012, 12:19 am

Houyou no Senshi,I'm glad somebody else also appreciates Anime Mamoru

Lady Tuxedo wrote:
I am just throwing out here that I have a newfound love for Usagi and Mamoru, anime aside. So pfffft. hell yeah he loves her.

But as EurAsianGirl said - it's anime version which is debated. And the superioritiy of other continuities only emphasises the lacks of Anime Mamoru. Who doesn't love Usagi.

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