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PostSubject: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   14th November 2012, 2:27 pm

Honestly I really prefer the name Wicked Lady, it some how seems to fit the more sexy, sassy, high slitted skirted, slightly see-through dressed woman >.>


I know some people argue that "Black Lady" can be mistaken as a woman who is black, which I can get a little, but I know it's not exactly something dealt with in 90's Japan...


And I know it's "Black Lady" because she is turned into the Black Moon Clan's newest member, but still... thoughts?

preferences on which you like better?

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   14th November 2012, 2:31 pm

i agree, i like Wicked lady better, it just feels better to me. because her usual name is Small lady, and small is a descriptive noun i think? so it makes sense it be replaced with another descriptive noun, which in my book is Wicked.

i get the whole "the color black is suppost to be evil!" but that's kind...i don't really know the wording for it, but it just seems silly.^^0 so yeah. my vote goes to Wicked Lady.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   14th November 2012, 2:32 pm

I prefer black lady just because I'm partial to the Japanese names. I don't have a problem with using Wicked Lady though. It doesn't irk me like someone using the name Amora, Michelle, or Trista! *shudders*

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   14th November 2012, 2:37 pm

I go either way, though usually I use 'Black Lady' when I write because most of the time I'm referencing from the comic. though, like others, I feel Wicked Lady is actually one of the better dub name changes.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   14th November 2012, 2:39 pm

I usually use Black Lady because, like Anjyu, I am partial to the Japanese names. To be honest, I don't really like either Black Lady or Wicked Lady. I think there could have been a better name for her.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   14th November 2012, 2:51 pm

I agree with Tux. I feel like there could have been a better name for her. The same goes for Chibiusa's name (why on earth would name your child small lady?? She's not going to be small forever!) Back to the topic. If I had to pick one then I would go with Wicked Lady. It seems more creative to me than Black Lady does.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   14th November 2012, 2:54 pm

Well, technically, it's Small Lady Serenity, Small Lady was added to differentiate between Neo Queen Serenity

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   14th November 2012, 2:56 pm

I know. That bothers me too >.> I don't like the idea of naming your kids after yourself. I'm going to get us off topic so I'll stop. XD

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   14th November 2012, 3:00 pm

I think "Black" works better because of the colour theme all the high ranking members (barring Demand) follow. Since she is a member who does not share the same background as the others its nice that her name is similar but different since her name doesn't hold the name to a mineral and the "black" is katakana rather than kanji. (because of Small Lady being also in katakana and the name being a "dark" version of that)

Midori no Esmeraude (Esmeraude of the Green)
Ao no Saphir (Saphir of the Blue)
Kurenai no Rubeus (Rubeus of the Crimson)

As for Wicked, on its own its okay I guess, I'm not too fond of it but it doesn't really fit into the rest of the high ranking Black Moon Clan members.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   14th November 2012, 3:09 pm

@Houyou no Senshi wrote:
I think "Black" works better because of the colour theme all the high ranking members (barring Demand) follow. Since she is a member who does not share the same background as the others its nice that her name is similar but different since her name doesn't hold the name to a mineral and the "black" is katakana rather than kanji. (because of Small Lady being also in katakana and the name being a "dark" version of that)

Midori no Esmeraude (Esmeraude of the Green)
Ao no Saphir (Saphir of the Blue)
Kurenai no Rubeus (Rubeus of the Crimson)

As for Wicked, on its own its okay I guess, I'm not too fond of it but it doesn't really fit into the rest of the high ranking Black Moon Clan members.

This really cleared a lot up for me.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   14th November 2012, 3:11 pm

Good point Miki, but I'm stil eh to Black Lady. It's sounds to bland to me.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   14th November 2012, 3:17 pm

Remember that its in Japanese not English, using the words "Black" and "Lady" over something like "Kuroi" and "Shukujo" would be considered more creative. Also I like the not using of a mineral here because it makes Black Lady feel less like a "true villain", since shes good inside and the majority of Sailor Moon villains have names derived from gemstones, minerals and metals.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   14th November 2012, 4:31 pm

Some very interesting facts and points,

Now, logically is makes sense, but is it because of those facts that you prefer her name? Or just as a singular character how do you feel about her name?

Like I said in my original post, I understand it makes "sense", I just like a different name for her persona.


I agree that Black Lady falls a little short in the translation, just leaving it feeling, "meh"

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   14th November 2012, 4:37 pm

Well to be honest i've never taken "Wicked Lady" seriously because it makes me think of this:



When really it should be (Mao is actually a little flat in these songs but I can't find anything with Shion with lyrics sorry T.T)



or


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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   16th January 2013, 7:40 pm

I prefer Black Lady but I like how Wiseman says Wicked Lady in the dub. Black Lady sounds more mysterious.

Though, when I look at the "Black Lady" transformation Youtube,I can't count the number of times were comments mentioned that they clicked on the link because they thought it was an actual "black lady" transforming/
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   22nd January 2013, 9:54 am

Well, it's pretty obvious why they renamed "Black Lady," otherwise I'm sure there would've been a huge backlash against the show in North America. I remember in Pokemon had to change the color of Jynx's skin color, and One Piece did the same for one of it's characters too. On a sidenote, now that I'm looking at Jynx, she kind of reminds me of Nicki Minaj LOL

That being said, I think Wicked Lady was a pretty clever name change. I'll forever associate it with her dub voice though haha and that's why I personally prefer Black Lady.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   22nd January 2013, 11:09 am


couldn't resist

Also, question: In the dub, The "Negamoon" and the "Negaverse" were related, right? Dimande and his crew were like "descendent" of Beryl?
The dub canon is really interesting. This is why I love dubs that change a lot of stuff.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   22nd January 2013, 2:07 pm

@Mayonnaise wrote:

couldn't resist

Also, question: In the dub, The "Negamoon" and the "Negaverse" were related, right? Dimande and his crew were like "descendent" of Beryl?
The dub canon is really interesting. This is why I love dubs that change a lot of stuff.

I watched the dub recently and I did not pick that up, It seems they're similarly named but not related. Apparently Eilu and An were acquainted with Queen Beryl though and Eilu and An were "from the Negaverse", which didn't make much sense because they ended up not being true villains anyway. Unless I missed it, there was no mention of Beryl in the Black Moon arc except for Sailor V in the Niphas episode where she said it was "colder than when they fought Queen Beryl" instead of the Japanese where she said "Colder than the North Pole". But now I'm not 100% can anyone verify?

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   22nd January 2013, 3:56 pm

@ChibiBoi wrote:
Well, it's pretty obvious why they renamed "Black Lady," otherwise I'm sure there would've been a huge backlash against the show in North America. I remember in Pokemon had to change the color of Jynx's skin color, and One Piece did the same for one of it's characters too. On a sidenote, now that I'm looking at Jynx, she kind of reminds me of Nicki Minaj LOL

That being said, I think Wicked Lady was a pretty clever name change. I'll forever associate it with her dub voice though haha and that's why I personally prefer Black Lady.

Actually this is a very very good reason. -insert every single social and political issue within the western society that's usually a big deal.- I'm not gonna lie, this is the instance where I do appreciate the forethought there. And it is a clever change, considering as a kid, I understood quite well what 'Wicked' meant and that it was a bad thing.

Which is far better than thinking it could've been ' Bad Lady.' <<;


I think it was implied that the 'Negaverse' had a hand in corrupting the Doom Tree and it's offspring. But that's all I got there. o.o;
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   28th January 2013, 6:27 pm

i thought they called her Black Lady because it was the Black moon clan.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   28th January 2013, 6:33 pm

@sailor swifty wrote:
i thought they called her Black Lady because it was the Black moon clan.

That's probably part of it but no one else has black in their names, so there's got to be further reasoning than that

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   28th January 2013, 6:46 pm

Considering in the Dub the clan's name is Dark Moon (rather than 'Black') I believe, there's a lot of reasons for the name changes. It's just like why, as far as I know, they don't call The Sailor Senshi 'White Moon'.

It's possibly being very politically correct censorship- especially considering every character with the indicative 'Black-insert evil agency' or even the word 'evil' is replaced with similar meaning names: Negaverse for Dark Kingdom. Doom Tree for the actual name of the tree of Al and An, Dark Moon Clan in place of Black Moon. Deathbusters seems to be the only group (aside from Nehellenia's group) that makes the transition without renaming the group.

It's also probably because they went to a different dubbing company and it's not the 90s political correctness (though it's still there not as obvious/harsh since some things make it pass the censors.).

So..yeah, while the use of the terms 'white' 'black' just mean 'good' 'evil' in terms of the show and it's context, there's a slight unfortunate implication that can be interpreted badly by various people who are from a different cultural and the words just don't translate as well in the sense that, in one place it has no baggage surrounding it but you ship it to another country where it does-

there'll be problems.

So, I kinda see it as them trying to avoid the 'what if' problems, particularly during that time.

-just sayin is all.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   4th February 2013, 12:02 pm

well the Dark kingdom is Dark.. there is not much lighting and beryl could be seen as a dark person since she made a deal with a bad spirit... also the moon kingdom people is referred to the people of the white moon or something like that. so then the Black moon clan (they came from the dark side of a moon???) are evil and dark spirited?



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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   4th February 2013, 1:53 pm

@sailor swifty wrote:
well the Dark kingdom is Dark.. there is not much lighting and beryl could be seen as a dark person since she made a deal with a bad spirit... also the moon kingdom people is referred to the people of the white moon or something like that. so then the Black moon clan (they came from the dark side of a moon???) are evil and dark spirited?



Not in the NA dub, they're not referred by that name at that particular time (or since that I can remember). The Black Moon clan (in the original and Manga I think) are referred as that because they have the Black crescent mark on their forehead and are from Nemesis (the tenth planet in the system at the time the show aired). They're imbued with negative energies and basically are the oppossite of Moon Kingdom. They're not spirits, the only one that is is Wiseman and even then he started out as a human to begin with. Most don't know where he came by his powers (which is theorized that he absorbed a lot of these energies on Nemesis.).

But as you can see the assocation with the word Black. In the US, when we say black, we mean either the color or talking about a race of people (ie: the politically correct term- African Americans.). Same with White but it has less negative connations than the word 'Black'. As you can tell.

Which is why in the 90s the Dark Moon Clan is called as such. Wicked Lady is named such. Because it runs a risk of offending parents and that portion of the population.


Edit: Sorry, not Dark Moon but Nega Moon. =3
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: The name Wicked Lady or Black Lady   18th February 2013, 9:19 am

Quote :
It's possibly being very politically correct censorship- especially considering every character with the indicative 'Black-insert evil agency' or even the word 'evil' is replaced with similar meaning names: Negaverse for Dark Kingdom. Doom Tree for the actual name of the tree of Al and An, Dark Moon Clan in place of Black Moon. Deathbusters seems to be the only group (aside from Nehellenia's group) that makes the transition without renaming the group.

You are right! The dub aimed the anime at an audience of young children, when the show was intended original to be aimed for an audience of young adults.

When the anime was first introduced to America they considered recreating it entirely, and made a trailer that can be found on Youtube called Saban Moon.

A politically correct version to a fault, it was going to be part live-action and part cartoon. The people in charge, according to rumor, still want to play with this idea. Scary, I know. The live-action was reminiscent of the Babysitters club, as it was during the same timeframe and the cartoon portion of the show looked like Barbie.

The senshi were of various races, and one of them was even in a wheelchair.

This project was taken off the table not because the producers disliked the idea, but because the amount of funds it would have cost to make was far out of their budget, thank the lord, and so instead they went to changing the anime.

The removed episodes from every saga, they removed scenes from every single episode and stapled on a politically correct "Sailor Moon Says" inspiration do's and don'ts. Like brush your teeth and listen to your elders lmfao. The dub names were changed from their original Japanese names, which is surprisingly not very political considering they tried turning Japanese girls into Americans but I suppose it was because at the time, Anime wasn't very popular in America yet. Not only the names, but they also rewrote most of the script. They even cut out a scene where Chibiusa wet the bed because it was a kids show and they didn't want kids who "wet the bed" to be offended.

It happened to a lot of anime at the time. Pokemon, which has ALWAYS been aimed at kids was changed when brought to America as well. They banned several episodes, one because of the use of guns and meowth has on a Hitler mustache, another was the Pokemon Jynx which is a BLACK looking humanoid pokemon, because it's face is black. The episode was banned and Nintendo changed the skin tone to purple. I am surprised Popo wasn't changed in Dragon Ball lol

I believe they don't use the terms "White" Moon and "Black" Moon specifically due to the troublesome history of the two races in America. Honestly though, if people stopped caring about stepping on eggshells so much concerning this issue then maybe people can forget about color labels such as black and white. People shouldn't be defined by colors to begin with. It's Caucasian for white, and for black it depends. Could be African, could be Caribbean. Changing the names or characteristics of a tv show to be politically correct only ignited the fires that saying White or Black or looking a certain way is wrong and taboo, the minute people stop thinking that way is the minute people stop associated colors with a type of human.

That being said, I like the name Black Lady, and I wish they'd used White Moon Empire terms lol but I think one of the good variations on names was Wicked Lady because she is pretty wicked^^ still a better name then Princess Serena. Come now, if the princess's name was Serena, and she was reborn with the name Serena... oi. At least Serenity and Usagi are different names. :/ :scratch: lol ohs well c:
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