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 Debate: Is Luna not a kid-person?

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PostSubject: Debate: Is Luna not a kid-person?   18th November 2012, 1:09 pm

The thing I've noticed a lot with Luna, she doesn't seem particularly maternal towards Diana even after she's been around for a while. Not really. It really seems like Artemis is more invested in Diana than Luna is. Honestly, I don't really remember too many scenes of Luna bonding with Diana. It always seems like Diana was more of a Daddy's girl too. (Much like Chibiusa herself but differently.).

I wish there was more interaction between the cats to really get the feel of their dynamics better.

What do you think?
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Luna not a kid-person?   18th November 2012, 1:19 pm

I can definitely agree with that. Even through the series, Luna never really seemed to interact well with human children. It may have started when she looked for Usagi and two little brats put a band-aid over her crescent spot.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Luna not a kid-person?   18th November 2012, 1:26 pm

I thought at first, it also had to do with her age too- because apparently Luna's supposed to be around Usagi's age, maybe a little younger. But I'm not utterly sure if that's the case. Though, I suppose her past experiences with kids probably just makes her less likely to interact with kids at any point.

I just thought it was odd that she doesn't seem to bond at all with Diana.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Luna not a kid-person?   18th November 2012, 2:00 pm

Originally Naoko envisioned Luna to be slightly older than Usagi which is why Luna has a tendency to boss Usagi around and Usagi tends to listen. You can see this quite clearly in the S Movie, The Lover of Princess Kaguya and the Dream and Stars arc of the manga. However with the creation of the live-action series, Luna was changed to be much younger. The reason why Luna is not maternal to Diana is because Luna is not an adult in that time, she probably does not see Diana as her own child, this is different for Artemis who feels its his responsibility, the same way Usagi is not maternal to Chibiusa. I believe that the Luna-Artemis-Diana dynamic is nothing more than a parallel to the Usagi-Mamoru-Chibiusa dynamic.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Luna not a kid-person?   18th November 2012, 2:23 pm

Actually, my comic indicates they're around the same age..so..that's all I got there. I don't think she's even that much older than Usagi at all. Probably 16 in appearance at the most. I know she was made younger in the PGSM- but that's besides the point. I'm talking about Manga and Anime- not PGSM and musical. I would like to keep the focus there really because that's where you see the interactions the most.

Luna doesn't even give off a sisterly vibe at all. Even if it's supposed to parallel Usagi-Mamoru-Chibiusa dynamic, it actually kinda fails for me. I never felt that Luna ever bonded with Diana, as opposed to Artemis. It's like, Diana is just..there to her and someone that she somewhat likes, but not too invested.

Usagi, though, I feel her bond with Chibiusa- sisterly motherly kind. With Luna and Diana- nothing. Nada. Zip. I don't see how they're even associated with each other, other than they're both Mauians and we're told (Diana states it) that they're mother and child. After that, I just don't really see it.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Luna not a kid-person?   18th November 2012, 2:52 pm

I'm not sure how you got that from "Luna is slightly older than Usagi" ?

I think your logic is a little faulty here, if there's a version where Usagi and Luna interact... its PGSM. Naoko has clearly retconned the character. Naoko had little to no creative control over the anime. But that doesn't make much of a difference, I just mentioned it in order to give a fair analysis.

Diana has very few appearances in manga and anime, none of which show a great bond with Luna, there's not even a properly Diana-centric episode, the closest are the ones where she's introduced which actually revolves around Artemis, the other where she meets Mayako, which actually revolves around Mayako herself. Its hard to argue for or against when there's so little of this character. She's mainly there for comic effect. It was also at the point in the series where Luna was pretty much dropped from the main cast. Its hard to feel a bond, positive or negative between such elusive characters. We probably have to take it for granted that they have some sort of good relationship even if we aren't told expressively. For example we hardly ever see Haruka and Michiru's personal relationship properly yet we naturally assume they are close lovers, we usually just see their public image. We hardly ever see Minako and Ami doing anything together yet we must assume they are very good friends. Unlike the live action series, the anime requires certain acceptances with character relationships, its probably to simplify it for younger viewers. Usagi also never treats Chibiusa as a daughter in any version, particularly SuperS where she's assigned "cool big sis" now that she has matured past a level where the anime can focus on her for too long. (Stars repaired this by introducing new strife while SuperS did not). Mau also does not exist in the anime. The manga is a different story altogether, Usagi and Chibiusa's relationship is slightly more distant and formal.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Luna not a kid-person?   18th November 2012, 3:15 pm

No, it sounded like you were implying that Luna was older than Usagi, that's why I made the comment that if Luna even was- she wouldn't be much older than Usagi. So, either I misread it, or something because that's how it sounded.

I'm not talking about Luna and Usagi. I've seen them plenty enough in the anime and manga to know what the relationship there looks like. I'm not arguing about their relationship at all. I'm saying that Luna is around the same age as Usagi. <- That's all I meant by that. I believe they are nearly the same age/ age-mentality.


With Diana, as I mentioned in the opening topic, I find it's an utter shame we don't see her and Luna more often together to understand them more or even seen them more often at all. I mean, Luna had basically an entire movie and an entire comic devoted to her unrequianted love for Kakeru. That same space, could've been used for building a better understanding of her, Artemis and Diana. Not to mention that other epsiode that she (Edit: Diana) basically spent her time with Mamoru the entire epsiode because Usagi was acting silly and trying to spy on him at Rei's Temple- where he was staying because of the girls making the mess at his apartment.



I get what you're saying about the girls, but I only assume that Ami and Minako are friends because of how they act together. However, I would also assume that Minako and Rei are closer to each other than they are with Ami and Makoto (manga wise at least). Like a tamer version of Haruka and Michiru. They seem just about that close- especially in the manga.

In the anime, I would consider Makoto and Ami closer, because they seem to tend to be together more often than with either Rei or Minako.

I don't know, there are moments in the show where she does act like a 'mom' for a bit. Not always big sis.

We only assume that Mau doesn't exist, but the existence of Tin Nynako lends that it must have existed at one point and time if- anime wise- they are basically saying she's actually a corrupted Sailor Senshi.

It still doesn't say much about Diana and Luna's relationship in the manga.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Luna not a kid-person?   18th November 2012, 3:20 pm

Well, if there isn' tmuch to show about their relationship, its kind of hard to say that they do or do not have a good relationship.

Luna also is a bit more serious in her personality in comparison to Artemis, so she might just act that way because of how she is, but when she actually HAS Diana, she is of course more motherly. I would imagine Luna maybe having a hard time interacting with her future daughter, much like Usagi did. I'm sure they do have some sort of relationship, but we don't see it, like we do Usagi and Chibi-Usa did. I would have to reread the manga again to really give a good analysis though, its been a while since I read from the point where Diana comes in.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Luna not a kid-person?   18th November 2012, 4:20 pm

It must also be an awkward situation, especially because the situation is very unique (your child from the future comes to the past and is like... Hi, Mom!).

At the time Diana was introduced, there seemed to be a relationship forming between Luna and Artemis, but it definitely was not fully developed or formalized. Then, all of a sudden her future child with Artemis shows up? That must have been a shock and probably difficult to comprehend.

If my child from the future showed up, I wouldn't instantly be like "Ohmygerhd! I love you soooo much!" I'd probably be confused and stand-offish, because I wouldn't know how to react. Because I wouldn't have given birth to that child, so it wouldn't feel like mine, but I would know that I'd give birth to her in the future and... damn, that's overwhelming and confusing.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Luna not a kid-person?   18th November 2012, 7:43 pm

Well I don't know, mo one said Tin Nyanko came from Mau in the anime... or that Artemis and Luna came from the same planet as Nyanko or that Luna and Artemis were from anywhere else but the moon... You can put your own headcanon with Sailor Tin Nyanko was once Sailor Mau into there but in terms of the anime, there is still absolutely no implication of Mau, though it appears in the manga, alot of things are different, Eudial and Mimet have aged up and are not students of Mugen Gakuen, Sailor Heavy Metal Papillon does not exist and Fisheye appears as a homosexual despite seducing Ami in the manga. But you could argue all these things could happen in the anime too. Eudial and Mimet were ONCE students of Mugen Gakuen, Heavy Metal Papillon was just off-screen and Fisheye was doing it for the Dead Moon Circus. But there's just not enough evidence to qualify any of this, however being the future Mother of Diana with no reference to a bad relationship implies that Luna and Diana have at least a friendly relationship after Usagi goes through a very similar situation with a similar response from Mamoru to Chibiusa, its a bit safer to assume that Luna and Diana get along. Wink

I think your mixing your continuities a bit too much. All we know of the inter-relationships of the Sailor Soldiers is that Makoto and Minako are close, much closer than Makoto than Ami. Makoto and Ami did dance together once but this was likely due to Ami being the only one sensitive enough to realise Makoto shouldn't be waiting alone. We do not see Ami and Makoto interact very often, in fact we hardly see anyone interacting with others in the group with the exception of Usagi. We just have to assume they're all great friends.

Naoko had little to no creative control over the anime, she has more over SeraMyu and even more over PGSM. Basically she would give preliminary notes and outlines and then the manga and anime would develop separately from each other. SuperS and Sailor Stars especially take massive deviation from the manga.

...when I said slightly older, I mean around the 16 year old region but that's still slightly older than 14, right?

Luna does not seem comfortable around human children, when she first finds out Diana is her daughter, Luna is not shocked or upset, her expression is more of someone who is taking it in and is not unpleased but comfortable enough with the situation. Diana has come to be with Chibiusa not with Luna after all.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Luna not a kid-person?   18th November 2012, 8:42 pm

I'm not mixing up my continuties with the girls. I said before: Anime wise- I would consider Makoto and Ami close because they have hung out with each other before without having Usagi present. It's more notable in the Classic than in the other parts of the series.

Manga wise I wouldn't consider them especially close.

Manga wise- I would consider Rei and Minako very close- like a toned down Haruka and Michiru. They have hung out together without without needing Usagi.

Same is true for them in PGSM.

Anime wise: I don't consider them close overly much. Rei seems much more closer to Usagi than to Minako and it feels the same way with Minako and Usagi being closer (or even more so Minako and Makoto seem closer to each other often just butting heads over boys.).

So, I'm not confused there at all. That's just how I see their relationships.

The Anime also implied in the Stars season that there are other senshi of other planets, what's not to say that Tin Nynako wasn't the senshi for Mau? Unfortunately like with most final battles in the Anime, Artemis and Luna weren't there , so we don't really have a definite answer to that. Though since the Manga was more or less being produced at the same time as the show's production- it's probably more of a nod to the comic without going into detail.


I just still find it awkward how Artemis is more invested than Luna. I'm not saying she's a trouble mother/future mother. Just saying she doesn't seem to be a kid person overall. And I know Diana came to be with Chibiusa, but it doesn't mean she can't be a little curious about how her mother and father acted in the past.


Edit: Sixteen, yeah it sounds about right. Though it makes you wonder why Q.Serenity would have such young advisors...
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Luna not a kid-person?   18th November 2012, 8:46 pm

I think you'll find the Stars anime was released and completed long before Mau was mentioned in the manga. The anime was almost always ahead of the manga, this is why we don't see cross-canon referencing in the series.

So this is a debate about how Luna doesn't like children...? I think she doesn't like children who are rude to her but we never really see Luna doing anything with children at all, so I'm not really sure how its possible to debate this, it seems more of a headcanon...


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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Luna not a kid-person?   18th November 2012, 8:59 pm

Well I guess the only time she really interacts with kids is that episode where she tries to befriend Shingo. Other than that I can't think of any other episode.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Luna not a kid-person?   18th November 2012, 9:03 pm

Yeah she doesn't deal with kittens often either. There was Noriko's cat in Stars and those cats in the Rhett Butler episode =\ but they don't really add to the argument either way

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Luna not a kid-person?   18th November 2012, 9:25 pm

Don't go too off topic, guys Razz

Here is my two cents. First: I totally agree with Miki on Luna-Artemis-Diana paralleling Usagi-Mamoru-Chibiusa. However, though I do agree with that, that doesn't mean each character is parallel to each other. Obviously Usagi and Luna are not similar and running parallels, Mamoru and Artemis, etc. you get the idea.

Not much is really explored with these three kitties, as mentioned in earlier posts. ESPECIALLY with Diana. She doesn't really have much of an appearance. So...we don't really have much to go on. I would guess, however, that Luna and Diana probably have some kind of good relationship, even if small. Usagi and Chibiusa do too, even though you see them bicker and act like sisters that aren't too fond of each other but actually are very fond of each other. I would guess that Luna, though it's hard for her, does have something with her daughter too. But since we don't see much with the cats, we don't really know. We can just, guess. So yeah, I would guess that while the characters are different, I would say there is a parallel between the moonies and the kitties.

Also as mentioned, Luna is like x10 more serious and mature than Usagi. So, with that being said, obviously Luna is less likely to develop even a "sisterly" relationship with Diana the way Usagi developed one with Chibiusa. They're different characters! That's not to say over time Luna hasn't grown to love Diana. I'm sure she does.

If anything, I would compare Luna a little to Mamoru. NOT completely, but she's more reserved, I think, like Mamoru . And, differing from Mamoru, Artemis is the one that picks up feeling responsibility for Diana rather than Luna. But I'm sure Luna expresses her love for her loved ones in ways you wouldn't expect. I mean when do you ever see her openly show affections to even Artemis? Isn't that a rare occurrence? Luna's affections, I feel are more...subtle. Like Mamoru's affections a larger majority of the time (at least in the anime?) are more subtle. But you can easily pick up he adores Usagi (and Chibiusa). I'm sure Luna adores Artemis and Diana deep in her heart and is subtle about it (like Mamo). Just like you know she loves Usagi (and the other senshi). How do you know? Subtle hints.

As for human kids...well yeah, she probably doesn't like them. Can you really blame her?

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Is Luna not a kid-person?   19th November 2012, 12:24 pm

There has been a discussion about girls' friendships:

http://www.thegalaxycauldronforums.com/t2864-debate-the-inner-senshi-friendships

As for Luna (and also Artemis) I have always believed they are supposed to be adults - manga- and anime-wise.

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