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 Debate: Was there life on the other planets?

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SailorCelestialTiger
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Was there life on the other planets?    3rd December 2012, 2:03 pm

Maybe this belongs more in the 'Headcanons' thread, but I think there were people on the other planets and that the planets themselves were governed either by incarnations of the gods (and goddess) they were named for or by some other god or goddess. After all, if the first Queen Serenity was an incarnation of Selene and Sailor Pluto was the daughter of Chronos, who's to say that, for example, Mercury's queen wasn't Athena/Minerva or someone?

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Was there life on the other planets?    5th December 2012, 12:29 pm

But weren't Outers in the past alone on their planets?

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Was there life on the other planets?    10th December 2012, 8:58 pm

I think it said the Outer's castles were gifts from Serenity - maybe special space stations floating at the boundaries of the Kingdom so they could guard it?

I always imagined that the reason Earth was special was because it could produce life on its own. The others had terraformed moons, and domes (like the moon kingdom) and Jupiter probably had some wicked "Cloud City" from Star Wars type places, but no "native" life.

I also tend to think Saturn had been summoned to destroy all evidence, save a few pieces (the Outer's castles, which were still guarding the system, pieces of the moon palace where the prayer room and the main computer were, etc), so that no one would go digging... like, if there's all this evidence of these powerful ancient civilizations, you're gonna wanna know why they aren't around anymore, right? And you might unearth some dangerous magics or beings (like metallia).

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Was there life on the other planets?    26th January 2013, 3:24 am

@SailorCelestialTiger wrote:
Maybe this belongs more in the 'Headcanons' thread, but I think there were people on the other planets and that the planets themselves were governed either by incarnations of the gods (and goddess) they were named for or by some other god or goddess. After all, if the first Queen Serenity was an incarnation of Selene and Sailor Pluto was the daughter of Chronos, who's to say that, for example, Mercury's queen wasn't Athena/Minerva or someone?
That is an interesting headcanon (and I was going to post to say that I agree there'd be some life on the other planets simply because it's a more interesting supposition), although given how they all serve and protect Princess Serenity/Neo Queen Serenity, moreso than their own queen, it's clear that the moon reigns over them all.

Also, as for the 30th century, Neo Queen Serenity and King Endymion have to make frequent business trips, potentially that take them to other planets? It would make sense if they had business with interplanetary rulers, although of course they'd have enough on their plate dealing with all of planet Earth.

I think it also makes sense that humanoid life would have originated on Earth, and Earth would therefore have the biggest population, and, in the Silver Millennium, the Moon Kingdom maybe the second biggest.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Was there life on the other planets?    27th January 2013, 2:49 am

Before Sailormoon S I thought that all the planets had life until the fall of the Silver Millenium. I figured that each senshi was connected to their respective planet in the way that if one died, then the state of the planet would gradually start to decline.

Now I believe that there was life on each planet, and that each planet's population, cultures, and species must have been different. The closer to the Sun you are, the more peaceful life must have been (as far as outside threats are concerned). I imagine that Pluto would've had a small population and probably went ignored by outsiders for the most part seeing as it's such a small planet (leaving Princess Pluto with enough time pick up a full time job as a security guard), while Neptune, Uranus, and Saturn must have had larger populations and larger armies. I think it would take Sailor Soldiers and a huge army to keep invaders at bay, since it seems like earlier on in the series it takes the power of the four guardian soldiers channeled through the ginzushou just to one hit Super Beryl.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Was there life on the other planets?    27th January 2013, 5:31 am

I would think so, considering Venus (did someone else mention this before?) had a colony on Venus and loaned soldiers to Earth. It's highly probable that there's a smaller population on the other planets in relation to Earth.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Was there life on the other planets?    27th January 2013, 8:36 am

((Wooooow! How did I not get in on this one? Commence lazy not-reading-but-answering mode:))

Nope. No life on other planets. Even in Silver Millennium.


If there were, why would the terrestrial castles be floating above their respective planets instead of on them?

And if they were, the senshi's genetic and biological make up for withstanding their own planet would make it impossible to withstand the moon and Earth.

Also: Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune don't have planetary surfaces, just such intense gravitational pulls that anything that gets close to them is speghettified. ((which means that the gravity is so great that it starts pulling at the object as soon as it gets close, but in such a way that, at first, only the feet get pulled. And they stretch and break, but as they are pulled the legs are drawn in, then also stretch and break, and eventually you have a speghetti-fied object and a mess of pain to drown in before you get to the intense pressure within the planet's atmosphere itself. ... and yes, 'speghettification' is an astronomical and astrophysical term - I seriously had to define it in my astrophysics class.))


So... No.. The senshi and their families/citizens might have lived at those palaces, which are FREAKING HUGE in comparison to their planet's size. It might've even been a self-contained kingdom, but no way were they actually on the planet's surface.



Mercury's far too hot and then far too cold.

Venus is far too hot all the time - its ground is in a partially melted state most of the time and volcanoes are constantly spewing toxic gas that gets stuck in the atmosphere due to the greenhouse effect.

Mars is too small - any water on its surface simply boils away because there is not enough air pressure to provide a stable environment wherein liquid water can exist.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Was there life on the other planets?    27th January 2013, 3:31 pm

Sailor Uranus wrote:
((Wooooow! How did I not get in on this one? Commence lazy not-reading-but-answering mode:))

Nope. No life on other planets. Even in Silver Millennium.


If there were, why would the terrestrial castles be floating above their respective planets instead of on them?

And if they were, the senshi's genetic and biological make up for withstanding their own planet would make it impossible to withstand the moon and Earth.

Also: Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune don't have planetary surfaces, just such intense gravitational pulls that anything that gets close to them is speghettified. ((which means that the gravity is so great that it starts pulling at the object as soon as it gets close, but in such a way that, at first, only the feet get pulled. And they stretch and break, but as they are pulled the legs are drawn in, then also stretch and break, and eventually you have a speghetti-fied object and a mess of pain to drown in before you get to the intense pressure within the planet's atmosphere itself. ... and yes, 'speghettification' is an astronomical and astrophysical term - I seriously had to define it in my astrophysics class.))


So... No.. The senshi and their families/citizens might have lived at those palaces, which are FREAKING HUGE in comparison to their planet's size. It might've even been a self-contained kingdom, but no way were they actually on the planet's surface.



Mercury's far too hot and then far too cold.

Venus is far too hot all the time - its ground is in a partially melted state most of the time and volcanoes are constantly spewing toxic gas that gets stuck in the atmosphere due to the greenhouse effect.

Mars is too small - any water on its surface simply boils away because there is not enough air pressure to provide a stable environment wherein liquid water can exist.
To be fair, I always thought of the franchise as taking broad artistic liberties with astrophysics, among other things. The more obvious examples being the fact that there were people living on the moon, or alien visitors, or a dark crystal planet "Nemesis", which can be similarly scientifically dismissed. These things are allowed for the sake of storytelling, and I don't see why the other "planets" all being actual life-supporting planets would be much more of a stretch.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Was there life on the other planets?    27th January 2013, 3:45 pm

Sailor Uranus wrote:
((Wooooow! How did I not get in on this one? Commence lazy not-reading-but-answering mode:))

Nope. No life on other planets. Even in Silver Millennium.


If there were, why would the terrestrial castles be floating above their respective planets instead of on them?

And if they were, the senshi's genetic and biological make up for withstanding their own planet would make it impossible to withstand the moon and Earth.

Also: Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune don't have planetary surfaces, just such intense gravitational pulls that anything that gets close to them is speghettified. ((which means that the gravity is so great that it starts pulling at the object as soon as it gets close, but in such a way that, at first, only the feet get pulled. And they stretch and break, but as they are pulled the legs are drawn in, then also stretch and break, and eventually you have a speghetti-fied object and a mess of pain to drown in before you get to the intense pressure within the planet's atmosphere itself. ... and yes, 'speghettification' is an astronomical and astrophysical term - I seriously had to define it in my astrophysics class.))


So... No.. The senshi and their families/citizens might have lived at those palaces, which are FREAKING HUGE in comparison to their planet's size. It might've even been a self-contained kingdom, but no way were they actually on the planet's surface.



Mercury's far too hot and then far too cold.

Venus is far too hot all the time - its ground is in a partially melted state most of the time and volcanoes are constantly spewing toxic gas that gets stuck in the atmosphere due to the greenhouse effect.

Mars is too small - any water on its surface simply boils away because there is not enough air pressure to provide a stable environment wherein liquid water can exist.

Actually, with Mercury, there's a theory that if the people stay inside when the sun is out and where thermal protected clothing, they could possibly make a living inside the Crater Caloris. It's also illustrated that with a machine, they could harvest the ice by using a robotic machine that would supply the small colony by staying a bit ahead of the sunrise. (Was watching a Science thing on the possibility of living on other planets. )

Venus, who knows? Again, if you live inside a dome, there's a chance you could survive, but it depends on the tech. Considering that Sailor V has Adonis saying that there's a colony on Venus (probably under the power protection of Venus's castle, Magellan, there's a good chance there was life there.

With Mars, there's a lot of thought on how there could've been life (considering there's water beds there) but whatever happened there it failed. One of Jupiter's moons could have a possibility of micro-life under the ice (Io? I think), so as fans we could imagine that like the others, there's probably a domed city there under the protection of Jupiter.

Saturn, Neptune, Uranus and Pluto don't actually seem to have anyone.

-Shrugs- my two cents.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Was there life on the other planets?    27th January 2013, 4:19 pm

Let's not forget the magicks, we also don't know the timeline so we don't know how the planets were back then, perhaps in Sailor Moon World it was the fall of the Moon Kingdom that brought the planets into their uninhabitable states? (its been suggested in other media that the Moon Kingdom was around 3000BC but not noting how long before that it was established or how long after it continued to exist)

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Was there life on the other planets?    27th January 2013, 4:20 pm

@Princess Hyperia wrote:
To be fair, I always thought of the franchise as taking broad artistic liberties with astrophysics, among other things. The more obvious examples being the fact that there were people living on the moon, or alien visitors, or a dark crystal planet "Nemesis", which can be similarly scientifically dismissed. These things are allowed for the sake of storytelling, and I don't see why the other "planets" all being actual life-supporting planets would be much more of a stretch.
I think that in most things, Naoko kept as close as possible to the scientific reality. So many things in the manga were researched in depth and executed brilliantly; With the power of the Silver Crystal and an actual life-giving/forming planet a short hop away, living on the surface of the Moon would be the most likely of the entire system. Need water? Take a trip to Earth and get some. What? No food? Nbd. That whole life thing? Silver Crystal, done. As far as the other things you mentioned go, they were scientific theories -- as far as aliens go, if you could believe and are fighting for the girls actually living on other planets, why would aliens be any different? I could also go pretty far into the size and scope of our galaxy, let alone our universe, in the debate on whether aliens are an acceptable plot devise, but that feels like a tired argument to me.

Now, as for Nemesis, that was actually a scientific theory back in the day. See This Nemesis discussion for more detail. ... in fact, on this page I've given background on Pharaoh 90/Tau Ceti and Saggitarius Zero Star, too, and plan to cover Metallia and the Sunspots at a later date.

What I'm saying is that if she took modern (within the last century) astronomical theories into account when creating this story and specifically made the planetary castles floating above the planets, which leads me to believe that she was specifically stating that the girls didn't actually live on the planets.

@Ktenshi wrote:
Actually, with Mercury, there's a theory that if the people stay inside when the sun is out and where thermal protected clothing, they could possibly make a living inside the Crater Caloris. It's also illustrated that with a machine, they could harvest the ice by using a robotic machine that would supply the small colony by staying a bit ahead of the sunrise. (Was watching a Science thing on the possibility of living on other planets. )

Venus, who knows? Again, if you live inside a dome, there's a chance you could survive, but it depends on the tech. Considering that Sailor V has Adonis saying that there's a colony on Venus (probably under the power protection of Venus's castle, Magellan, there's a good chance there was life there.

With Mars, there's a lot of thought on how there could've been life (considering there's water beds there) but whatever happened there it failed. One of Jupiter's moons could have a possibility of micro-life under the ice (Io? I think), so as fans we could imagine that like the others, there's probably a domed city there under the protection of Jupiter.

Saturn, Neptune, Uranus and Pluto don't actually seem to have anyone.

-Shrugs- my two cents.

The problem with Mercury sustaining a livable society of any order is its insanely small size - it's tinier than our Moon, the gravity there is squat and it cannot support liquid water. It's true that water-ice has recently been discovered there, but that's only in one crater that stays a good -260° F all the time and without sunlight. The planet's day and year cycles are insane. Was it impossible to create a settlement there using the technology hinted at in the Silver Millennium? No, but it was improbable and unfeasible - why create a settlement on the planet when the castle floating above it would house just as many people and you were going to put one there anyway? The orbiting castle might also be better able to deal with the pummeling Mercury takes meteor-wise.

If you lived under a dome on Venus you'd better hope you didn't need to leave at any point in time. Also you'd better hope the ground doesn't start to turn to lava, which it has been known to do there. And hope the dome doesn't crack. I realize that Adonis in Sailor V stated things differently, saying that there was a colony on the planet, and maybe that was what Naoko intended.... before she rethought the entire series and suddenly it involved more than planet Venus.

And, yes, there is a good chance that there was life on Mars when the system was still cooling, but facts remain that liquid water cannot exist there and liquid water is a pretty important thing to have in lifeforms like us. The moon you are thinking of is Europa, Io is the volcanic moon that's constantly being affected (read: squeezed like an orange) by Jupiter's intense gravitational pull. the problem with the Europa thing would be that the ice that liquid water is under is about 62 miles thick. That's about as thick as our atmosphere. But a frozen mermaid city could be fun to play with. Except it'd have nothing to do with Jupiter at all.

Saturn has Titan, a large moon with a methane based precipitation cycle that resembles a primordial Earth. Just thought that if we were throwing possibilities out there that I'd include that one.



Again, I think Naoko had the castles orbiting the planets for a reason: to state that there actually was not life on those planets, else those castles would be on them rather than above them. I think she did this out of respect for science, which she is always nodding to in each arc of the story, exploring different areas of the occult and the scientific.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Was there life on the other planets?    27th January 2013, 5:10 pm

Quote :
And hope the dome doesn't crack. I realize that Adonis in Sailor V stated things differently, saying that there was a colony on the planet, and maybe that was what Naoko intended.... before she rethought the entire series and suddenly it involved more than planet Venus.

This chapter thats being referred to of Codename sailor V was actually written after the sailor Moon series had finished in both manga and anime form though =\ Codename Sailor V started before Sailor Moon and ended after Sailor Moon, so i dont think it can be counted as retconning so easily

I think Naoko does put out scientific, religious and spiritual references throughout the series but I honestly dont think she gave THAT much thought to how the days of the Silver Millennium functioned, i just dont think she had enough time to think about details

Personal headcanon think that the Moons and Planets work the same as Moon/Earth, the Moon (or Castle) would be a "God-like people" who watch over observe and develop the Earth as "colonies", perhaps using their magicks to make it more inhabitable. Kyra also do you know if science has any idea of what the planets were 5 or so thousand years ago, I haven't got a clue.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Was there life on the other planets?    18th February 2013, 10:13 am

I believe the answer is yes! Like already mentioned it is confirmed in the case of venus.

Each senshi had a castle that was in orbit around their planet, which causes the confusion. These castles were gifts from Queen Serenity, everyone got one, including the sleeping Saturn.

The only planets I imagine that didn't have life would be Saturn, Pluto and Nemesis.

The reason I say yes to the majority of planets having life is that they are senshi, and senshi crystals are part of the planet themselves.

Like in the final saga of the planet, Galaxia mentions that her planet, her star, chose her to be the senshi. The chosen warrior of the planet but she hated her own planet and deemed it unworthy.

This means that the planet picks the guardian host, the planet breeds it's own race of people, and among that race will be a child born with the soul that of a senshi crystal, as all living things have star seeds but few are born with the power to protect a planet with a senshi crystal.

I imagine some planets give off more energy and thus create multiple senshi crysrtals. This could be the case of Kinmoku, as the starlights and the princess are said to have come from there but I have different theories on that^^

So, the planet creates a Sailor Senshi in order to protect it, and the life that it's created.

The Silver Millennium was attacked and defeated by Metallia, but in the manga the last remnants of life on the planets was not killed by Metallia or her army, but by the Glaive of none other then Sailor Saturn, bringing a final end, the Apocalypse of the Silver Millennium. In the manga it mentions she traveled from planet to planet finishing off the hopeless remains, since her power is only awakened when the situation is hopeless and all is lost anyway.

I imagine since that happened, and since the senshi were killed the planets were easily finished off. Senshi however do not die, they are only recycled through the Galaxy Cordon. If Queen Serenity hadn't given them a chance at a future on earth in a new life, whose to say they wouldn't have been reborn on their planets again considering their senshi crystals are made by their planets, and those with senshi crystals do not die but are only reborn again and again. I imagine that because of this, Sailor Mars will always be Sailor Mars, she won't be reborn as a different senshi, that would be Rei could be reborn as Sailor Venus.

I don't think it works like that since the crystals are gifts given by the planet and born from the planet was born from the cordon, as all life is, and that instead of a planet dying and going into the cordon, it is the crystallized soul of the planet that dies and goes through the cordon, which means that Makoto is not just a senshi of Jupiter but she is apart of the planet itself, perhaps a daughter or the actually planet in a human incarnation.

I agree with Houyou no Senshi in the aspect this makes them like gods, but I disagree with them watching over earth and influencing it. While Naoko used a lot of Ancient Greek references, she also changed the myths, such as the myth of Selene and Endymoin, very different but with only a few similar aspects.

The Earth was forbidden land, and the people of the Silver Millennium were forbidden to go there and interact with humans, that is why Serenity and Endymoin met in secrecy, it was a forbidden romance.

Senshi are protectors who are supposed to protect their planet and the life it has on it. This is why Sailor Moon and the senshi protect Earth, because they fell in love with the planet and it's people.

If Queen Serenity hadn't sent them to Earth, perhaps they'd have been reborn on their home worlds, which would also life to spark again on the planets.

This is why I think in the Sailor Moon Universe that the planets in modern times had no life. Because the souls of the planets(senshi crystals) were gone for 1000 years, and because of that they were no longer able to flourish after Saturn finished them off.

In the end of the first saga, it is said that with Sailor Moon wish upon the tower of prayer, that the Silver Millennium was restored. We know for a fact the palaces were restored, but we do not know about the life being restored.

I think that it wasn't, but I think that the castles being restored wasn't a coincidence. I think that in the future, Crystal Tokyo, life is breathed into the other planets again and the senshi take their rightful places because the "Crystal Era" is a peace that reaches the far expanses of time and space when Mamoru and Usagi marry and take the throne. Kakyuu says this to Usagi with admiration, so since their is peace on such an intergalactic scale, I imagine there will come a time when the senshi step down and become queens like Serenity once Chibiusa begins to rule and her senshi take their place and the earth gaurdians.

The reason for my theory on the lack of life on Pluto, Saturn and Nemesis is for separate reasons.

Pluto is said to have that of Chronos's blood running through her veins. No one is allowed to see her, as it is forbidden to all those without Lunarian heritage as Pluto says this to Chibiusa in the manga.

The drawings of the three outer's on floating rock platforms by Naoko in the manga was probably just dramatic art because we see the Time Door being in the Moon Palace, the Crystal palace and the actual gates where Pluto stands is a place that resides outside of both time and space, so the gate wouldn't actually be in space otherwise anyone could get to it, but there are doorways to "enter" that realm where the gate of time lies, the doors in the Crystal and Moon castle are NOT the gates of time but a doorway to the realm where Pluto resides so that one can enter the gate of time. So Imagine that scene was just for a dramatic effect and to save space.

The reason for the lack of life is that I imagine Pluto as a very lonely, but very sacred individual. The manga states Chronos is the one true god who created the time-space continuum and she is somehow a descendant whether as a daughter or who knows, except that his blood runs through her veins. However their might be life, maybe she is only a demi-god and Chronos is her father, and a Plutonium woman is her mother. Pluto is often associated in mythology and even the manga as being the portal to the underworld, so I imagine that on the planet Pluto, it is not a home but literally a portal to the underworld thus the reason why I suggest there is no life on this planet.

When it comes to Saturn, I imagine this planet only has one life form. Sailor Saturn. The planet Saturn breathes life. This is why Saturn and Pluto are so alike.

Naoko has reversed their roles. Now get this.

Chronos/Cronus is considered the keeper of time, but is also known in some instances as Saturn. Saturn/Chronos is the titan/god of time. Kronos is a being that wields a sickle.

What is funny that in mythology about Pluto, is that Pluto is the equivalent of Hades, god of the underworld and SON of CHRONOS.

There fuku's, there powers and even there princess dresses are similar. Hotaru's castle is names Titan's castle which is funny because Saturn and Chronus is a titan.

I wonder if this means Hotaru is Setsuna's father, beings that live outside of death and time.

Anywho Nemisis we know HAD no life, a newly discovered planet in the 30th century. The senshi used this planet in the manga as a prison, and sent Wise Man to be imprisoned there. He dies there, his remains skeletons on the cold terra of Nemesis.

Since Nemesis had not yet breathed life into the planet, and the planet is still connected to it's starseed which has yet to become a senshi crystal.

I believe this is why Wise man was able to assimilate with the planet. He died alone and full of powerful emotions like hatred and anger with a deep desire for revenge against those that imprisoned him. In the manga, they said that those evil feelings and intentions melted into the planet, making Wise Man and Nemisis one being.

This is why I think the senshi are just human creations of their planet, instead of separate individuals because the planet gives it's soul to that person, in a sense connecting the two forever.

However, Wiseman is not a senshi, and instead of the planet giving it's soul to wiseman, wiseman gave it's body to the planet and they became one. Since there was no other life around. I imagine in time Nemisis might have created life, and a Sailor Nemisis could have existed if it weren't for this fusion.

That's why I believe there is life on other planets, but they died but since the girls were reborn and given a new chance at life, their existence could make it possible for new life to one day form on their planets again, as long as both are alive, the planet and the senshi^^

That's my theory, sorry it's so long, I think a lot!
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