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 [SPOILER] Would it be different?

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Ktenshi
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PostSubject: [SPOILER] Would it be different?   13th February 2013, 9:01 pm

I've always wondered this just a bit mostly because having read and seen Stars, the characterization of Seiya bothers me the most out of any of the Sailor Moon Characters.


Manga wise, I found her so endearing, loyal and completely willing to help others a lot.  I really enjoyed her there.  I like how she doesn't actively pursued Usagi, rather she and the Starlights are trying to warn them but also are looking for their princess. The fact she keeps that in mind first and foremost is what made me pretty much like the friendship between her and Usagi (even the subtle unrequinted feelings. It doesn't overpower the story there.)

Anime wise..
eh... It's not my favorite. I think she ranks dead last after Dub Chibiusa and Anime Usagi on my list of least-liked characters.  In this I felt a lot of what she did was a copy of Mamoru from Season one and a bit of season two, right down to 'odango'- seeing as Mamoru called Usagi 'Odango atama(sp  check here?)'.  I didn't care for her, I didn't like how she did pursue Usagi, when Usagi clearly needed friends more than another lover. It ate at me weirdly and made me cringe about the same way as Demand made me cringe over his 'love' for Usagi but in a different way.   While somewhat funny, Seiya just..I don't know. I didn't get the character as much and she seemed less resolved to finding her princess and more interested in trying to get Usagi.  (The senshi are not helping my judgement in that season. Is it me or are they all weirdly OOC there?)


But I think, the thing that probably bothered me about Seiya is the fact I expected so much more from her in the anime like I did in the manga and didn't get it.

I think the problem is the setup in the beginning for that arc.

Manga wise- The Starlights and Usagi witnessed Mamoru's Death at the hands of Galaxia.  This has the profound effect on Usagi and her blanking it out of her mind completely.  The way they acted after that is pretty cool to me.  Sending these cards and the interactions were really interesting.


So I wondered, if the Starlights and Usagi in the anime had witnessed the same event, would it have gone the route it went in the anime?


I would like to think not, but I'm unsure of that.



Considering this is mostly opinion based, there's no really right and wrong answer here.  

Edit:.. this may need to be in debate/theories... I think. not sure.. <. >
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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Would it be different?   14th February 2013, 6:31 am

@Ktenshi wrote:


Edit:.. this may need to be in debate/theories... I think. not sure.. <. >

Yup and I moved it there Wink

So that is an interesting topic indeed.

I do believe if Usagi and the Starlights had seen this event where Mamoru dies at the beginning of the season it would have been very different. Because that event means a lot and the moment it is placed changes everything.

Remember how Usagi starts feeling confused, even if she has no doubts about the love she feels for Mamoru, as from day to day, week to week, she gets no signs of life from him. (In my mind it would have been clear something wrong is going on but hey... The story isn't presented that way so...) She keeps hoping he will respond to her calls and letters. She really feels lonely and she lives with that all by herself because nobody knows she didn't get any news from him at first. (Until she tells Rei) And then, as she feels abandonned by her only and forever love.

Seiya is there, always there to support her...

I don't think the way Seiya acted in the anime was really innapropriate as the events are presented differently from the manga and I'm going to explain myself there.

You become really good friends with a girl you really start having sincere feelings for and you see her tortured because her boyfriend doesn't take care of her. Seiya knows nothing about Mamoru and at first sight, because of the strange situation, Seiya maybe sees him as the worse player species on Earth... And Usagi is deeply in love with Mamoru...

Wouldn't it be frustrating to have one of your own friends being played by someone she loves more than anything?

But the fact is... Seiya knows nothing about Mamoru and maybe judges him too quickly. Because he/she is protective over Usagi.

On the other side, Seiya is searching for the Princess and she doesn't show up. There is a popular quote saying ''Far from eyes, far from heart''. I think both Seiya and Usagi are placed in this situation, each on their side.

If Seiya didn't meet Usagi at that moment where he/she felt abandonned by the Princess, maybe things would have been different too, because Usagi sometimes reminded of the Princess. She had something special that didn't leave Seiya cold toward her. Seiya would have met anybody else and it wouldn't have been the same. Same for Seiya who sometimes remind Usagi of Mamoru...

At the end of the season, when Galaxia tells how and when she killed Mamoru, you can see a lot of things change. You can feel Seiya is really sorry for Usagi and I think it explains a lot at this moment. No, Seiya's feelings didn't change for Usagi, but events coincide and it shows Mamoru a different way. From this moment, Seiya seems to have more respect for Mamoru.

For most part of the season, Seiya has no idea about Usagi being the Moon Princess, has no idea about her future with King Endymion which is Mamoru and also have no idea about them having a child together in the future.

Overall, I think the way Seiya acts is mainly cause by all the things he/she doesn't know in the anime.

Oh and I forgot to tell, Seiya all this time knows she cares for Mamoru, but have no idea how much she loves him... Until nearly the end of the season after the ''Am I not good enough?'' episode. (Now I wanna cry! ) :lolz:

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Would it be different?   16th February 2013, 8:10 am

I actually like Seiya a lot in the anime - she is one of my favorite characters. I love the way she treats Usagi - accepting her silliness without condescending her and the playful banter that the two of them shared.

I do not feel like the Stars arc was really fleshed out in the manga. It was only three books and felt like everything happened within a week's time. I felt like the Starlights were brushed over and were not given the chance to become personable to the reader - but that is just how I feel. ^^ So I did not like Seiya's actions in the manga too much because I felt like she was still a stranger to me.

However, I do think that things would have been different with the anime!Seiya had she witnessed Mamoru's death. I think that she would have been more serious and not have had that playful and meaningful friendship with Usagi. I do not think that she would have allowed herself to fall in love with Usagi (or at the very least, try to pursue her) if she had seen the interaction between Usagi and Mamoru and the traumatic effect Mamoru's death had on Usagi.

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Would it be different?   16th February 2013, 8:54 am

I actually like the Starlights in the anime. I like how they play a bigger role. It annoyed me in the manga that they were just there.

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Would it be different?   16th February 2013, 12:04 pm

@Ktenshi wrote:

In this I felt a lot of what she did was a copy of Mamoru from Season one and a bit of season two, right down to 'odango'- seeing as Mamoru called Usagi 'Odango atama(sp check here?)'. I didn't care for her, I didn't like how she did pursue Usagi, when Usagi clearly needed friends more than another lover. It ate at me weirdly and made me cringe about the same way as Demand made me cringe over his 'love' for Usagi but in a different way. While somewhat funny, Seiya just..I don't know. I didn't get the character as much and she seemed less resolved to finding her princess and more interested in trying to get Usagi.

I actually can't see such similarity between Mamoru and Seiya - at times they are almost direct opposites. (And Haruka also called Usagi "Odango").

I also detest Seiya's pursuit of Usagi. I don't think however that this means he was less interested in finding their Princess. If any, IMO Starfighter seemed to be the closest to Kakuyuu and great part of his attraction was clearly caused by their resemblance. Starlights' agreed upon plan was to sing their message and wait for Kakuyuu to appear and none of them had other idea. Taiki and Yaten also had their doubts.

@Ktenshi wrote:
(The senshi are not helping my judgement in that season. Is it me or are they all weirdly OOC there?)
What do you mean by OOC? It bugged me a little how they suspected Usagi could forget Mamoru.


@Ktenshi wrote:
Manga wise- The Starlights and Usagi witnessed Mamoru's Death at the hands of Galaxia. This has the profound effect on Usagi and her blanking it out of her mind completely. The way they acted after that is pretty cool to me. Sending these cards and the interactions were really interesting.

So I wondered, if the Starlights and Usagi in the anime had witnessed the same event, would it have gone the route it went in the anime?


I actually think sending these cards was a little silly - it only messed with Usagi. Manga-Seiya hugged and kissed Usagi and they have known each other less.

If Starlights knew form 173 about Mamoru's death and the ending was as it happened in anime - Kakuyuu appears in 193, later we battle with Galaxia, then 20 episodes must be filled. So probably Seiya would still pursue Usagi - having another excuse of mission sake. And Mamoru's death would mean one obstacle less.

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Would it be different?   16th February 2013, 1:01 pm

@JoJiaMystie wrote:

For most part of the season, Seiya has no idea about Usagi being the Moon Princess, has no idea about her future with King Endymion which is Mamoru and also have no idea about them having a child together in the future.

Overall, I think the way Seiya acts is mainly cause by all the things he/she doesn't know in the anime.

Oh and I forgot to tell, Seiya all this time knows she cares for Mamoru, but have no idea how much she loves him... Until nearly the end of the season after the ''Am I not good enough?'' episode. (Now I wanna cry! )

I can't see what Usagi being Moon Princess or having future with King Endymion and Chibiusa has to do with Seiya's actions.

And IMO it was evident how Usagi loves Mamoru when she claimed she's sure he thinks about her, even when he's too busy.

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Would it be different?   16th February 2013, 1:22 pm

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
@JoJiaMystie wrote:

For most part of the season, Seiya has no idea about Usagi being the Moon Princess, has no idea about her future with King Endymion which is Mamoru and also have no idea about them having a child together in the future.

Overall, I think the way Seiya acts is mainly cause by all the things he/she doesn't know in the anime.

Oh and I forgot to tell, Seiya all this time knows she cares for Mamoru, but have no idea how much she loves him... Until nearly the end of the season after the ''Am I not good enough?'' episode. (Now I wanna cry! )

I can't see what Usagi being Moon Princess or having future with King Endymion and Chibiusa has to do with Seiya's actions.

And IMO it was evident how Usagi loves Mamoru when she claimed she's sure he thinks about her, even when he's too busy.

The fact that Seiya doesn't know about Usagi's past or future has a lot to do with his pursuit of her (im saying she's a he for ease of typing. Id get confused with so many shes lol).

Seiya has no idea whatsoever that Usagi and Mamoru have been destined to be together since forever ago. He also doesn't know that they have a preordained future together that the they've have seen and know that it's going to happen. If he doesn't know this, how could he possibly keep himself from trying to show her that he loves her? He understands that she's in love with Mamoru, but for all intents and purposes, he's human. A human with no idea of how connected Usagi is to Mamoru. He wants to at least show and tell Usagi his feelings for her. So he does.

I think Naoko did that for a reason. To show that the heart and soul is capable of great love that can survive even without reciprocation. Look at Pluto. She KNOWS that Endymion is destined to be with Usagi/NQS but she loves him anyway. She just shows it in her dedication to the royal family. And she hints at it in the Black Moon arc when shes dying.

I don't think Seiya's love for Usagi should be taken as him trying to force himself on her. I think it was meant to show the hearts great capacity to love and desire even when its getting nothing in return. It's quite sad actually, and part of the reason I love the Stars season so much <3

/rant ^^

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Would it be different?   16th February 2013, 2:24 pm

Usagi and Mamoru aren't destined to be together since forever ago - they got in present chance they didn't have as Serenity and Endymion - and they decided to take it. Nor they have preordained future - it will happened as a result of their choices, which are caused by their mutual feelings, not by knowledge of their future.

Usagi and Mamoru's relationship isn't validated by their destiny, but by their feelings and choices. Each of them is free to walk away at any moment, without any regard for past or future.

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Would it be different?   17th February 2013, 9:47 am

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
Usagi and Mamoru aren't destined to be together since forever ago - they got in present chance they didn't have as Serenity and Endymion - and they decided to take it. Nor they have preordained future - it will happened as a result of their choices, which are caused by their mutual feelings, not by knowledge of their future.

Usagi and Mamoru's relationship isn't validated by their destiny, but by their feelings and choices. Each of them is free to walk away at any moment, without any regard for past or future.

Then I guess we have different opinions ^^

I just think that it's something they couldn't possibly walk away from. Not as in they physically couldn't but that they both feel the draw to each other and their love isn't something that could be broken or severed. That comes from their past and their future and then of course their feelings for each other in the present.


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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Would it be different?   17th February 2013, 10:13 am

I slightly agree with Moonlight. Mamo and Usagi don't have to follow their past. They have a choice if they want to be together or not. However they do have an attraction toward each other and they felt it before they knew about their past lives. So they do know they love each other because they want to not because they were lovers in the past.

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Would it be different?   18th February 2013, 12:23 pm

They don't have to - like Mamoru did break up with Usagi. Though because of their feelings they still were never able to separate completely. And this was the sign of their love, not their relationships in past or future.

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Would it be different?   18th February 2013, 1:36 pm

That's what I was saying.

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