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 [SPOILER] Fiore in Sailor Moon R

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PostSubject: [SPOILER] Fiore in Sailor Moon R   13th March 2013, 10:15 pm

I watched Sailor Moon R the movie both subbed and dubbed and overall I enjoy it. But there's one scene in it that gets me every time. During the first real fight with Fiore after meeting him in human form he takes a look at Sailor Moon, who he had already met as Usagi, and says "The girl from yesterday." Or something to that effect.

Fiore was able to do what nobody else up to that point or after it have been able to do...

Put two and two together -_-

You see it all the time in superhero shows. Ever since the days of Superman all a hero had to do was put on a pair of glasses and the rest of the world would be completely oblivious to who they were. Most of the Senshi don't even have that much of a disguise. But no one ever recognized them except Fiore. I mean I can vaguely recall the Senshi having difficulty recognizing Minako as Sailor Venus when they first met her in civilian form so what the heck?

So I ask you, Moonies. Is there something I'm missing? Is there an explanation that has alluded me all these years or is this simply an "oops" on the part of the writers?

Discuss.
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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Fiore in Sailor Moon R   13th March 2013, 10:33 pm

How they had problems seeing Minako as Venus ALWAYS bugged the crap out of me. =3=

As for Fiore (and even Ail/An) I think it's because, as 'actual' aliens and when they are in "civilain" forms - placing themselves as humans.

They look SO different from their original form compared to the Senshi and theirs.

Also the fact that he knew Mamoru JUST because of a rose he threw (lol). So being Usagi normally acts the same as SM and him probably seeing it as her "tagging along" then it would be easy to realize along with him already hating her. I think.

But I don't know. The movies are movies, so I kinda just think it would be a "oops" on the writers kinda thing. That's kinda what I've always thought anyway; until I typed the above. X'D
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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Fiore in Sailor Moon R   13th March 2013, 11:03 pm

For me I think this might be a case of overthinking a bit.

In-show explaining:

To be fair to the other villains, most of the time they did not have actual interaction with them in the civilian form, they just happened to be in the same location. The Amazon Trio and Amazoness Quartet are a big exception to this but honestly, they're clueless about everything and more self-absorbed and not willing to pay attention to anything but their own interests. Also in the anime, most of the villains couldn't care less it seems, the vast majority of the anime villains treat being evil as a day job, the Sailor Soldiers are a mere distraction and annoyance. Most villains just show up and go home.

Out-of-show explaining:

From the writer's perspective, its unlikely to be an oops. The Sailor Moon anime is pretty much a slice-of-life show, anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves, the series is set up as heroines with real life problems who have to fight monsters on a day-to-day basis, from time to time there's a harder battle but on the whole, its an episode-by-episode thing that will eventually escalate towards the end of the season. This only applies to the anime, the manga, musicals and live-action series each deal with it differently. In the manga, the villains seem to be able to work it out but not care really. In the live-action, the villains find out gradually and don't care that much, in the musicals the villains almost always know sometime before but use that to plan out things better. Writing in that the villains find out the identities too early cuts the ability to write more stories down, its okay for a movie but for the main series, not so much. The anime is not a continuation series, it is a meta-series, that is not five parts to one series, one series in five series. We shouldn't overthink the continuity of the anime unless its specifically pointed out to us like in the Nehelenia arc.

As for the Minako-Venus thing, it never really bothered me. I like their designs, they don't have to be practical right?

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Fiore in Sailor Moon R   14th March 2013, 9:41 am

@Sailor Iris wrote:
How they had problems seeing Minako as Venus ALWAYS bugged the crap out of me. =3=

As for Fiore (and even Ail/An) I think it's because, as 'actual' aliens and when they are in "civilain" forms - placing themselves as humans.

They look SO different from their original form compared to the Senshi and theirs.

Also the fact that he knew Mamoru JUST because of a rose he threw (lol). So being Usagi normally acts the same as SM and him probably seeing it as her "tagging along" then it would be easy to realize along with him already hating her. I think.

But I don't know. The movies are movies, so I kinda just think it would be a "oops" on the writers kinda thing. That's kinda what I've always thought anyway; until I typed the above. X'D

Makes sense. The thing with the rose was kind of funny, would have been awkward had he been wrong. I wonder if anyone made a parody of that. Fiore running around thinking every guy he sees with a rose is Mamoru.

@Houyou no Senshi wrote:
For me I think this might be a case of overthinking a bit.

In-show explaining:

To
be fair to the other villains, most of the time they did not have
actual interaction with them in the civilian form, they just happened to
be in the same location. The Amazon Trio and Amazoness Quartet are a
big exception to this but honestly, they're clueless about everything
and more self-absorbed and not willing to pay attention to anything but
their own interests. Also in the anime, most of the villains couldn't
care less it seems, the vast majority of the anime villains treat being
evil as a day job, the Sailor Soldiers are a mere distraction and
annoyance. Most villains just show up and go home.

Out-of-show explaining:

From
the writer's perspective, its unlikely to be an oops. The Sailor Moon
anime is pretty much a slice-of-life show, anyone who says otherwise is
fooling themselves, the series is set up as heroines with real life
problems who have to fight monsters on a day-to-day basis, from time to
time there's a harder battle but on the whole, its an episode-by-episode
thing that will eventually escalate towards the end of the season. This
only applies to the anime, the manga, musicals and live-action series
each deal with it differently. In the manga, the villains seem to be
able to work it out but not care really. In the live-action, the
villains find out gradually and don't care that much, in the musicals
the villains almost always know sometime before but use that to plan out
things better. Writing in that the villains find out the identities too
early cuts the ability to write more stories down, its okay for a movie
but for the main series, not so much. The anime is not a continuation
series, it is a meta-series, that is not five parts to one series, one
series in five series. We shouldn't overthink the continuity of the
anime unless its specifically pointed out to us like in the Nehelenia
arc.

As for the Minako-Venus thing, it never really bothered me. I
like their designs, they don't have to be practical right?

I'm not just talking about the villains though. Chibiusa lived with Usagi and had several interactions with the group and never recognized them in their Senshi form until she found proof that Usagi was Sailor Moon. Haruka and Michiru, and vice versa, saw them on the regular basics and it took Usagi sitting in that car one day and them seeing Usagi transform to finally see it. Naru was Usagi's best friend and saw her regularly and when she did see her as Sailor Moon nothing. And in those three instances there is at least some form of continuity. It's not like the PJs or the original Star Trek where you can put any episode in any order you want (with the exception of two parters) and you'd never be none the wiser.

After a while you just go with it or assume there's some kind of magical barrier upon the transformation that messes with your perception. But then when you have a new guy come in and do this, I'm sorry but... It just makes the others look stupid.
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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Fiore in Sailor Moon R   14th March 2013, 8:39 pm

Again as I said its probably just convenience for the writers, if everyone knows who everyone else is. Its not going to get to 200 episodes. I was just trying to give an in-series possible suggestion. I don't think the makers of any versions really want us to think on it. Its not like PGSM with a single writer.

Actually Usagi didn't see it even when she made a connection between Haruka and Uranus. She wouldn't know completely for another ten episodes later when they transformed in front of her.

Perhaps you can't know a Soldier's identity unless they tell you or you see them transform directly.

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Fiore in Sailor Moon R   14th March 2013, 8:45 pm

Didn't we already have a thread about this somewheres... ?

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Fiore in Sailor Moon R   14th March 2013, 9:04 pm

I dunno I thought this thread was specifically for Fiore in R but I think its gotten off topic... >.>


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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Fiore in Sailor Moon R   14th March 2013, 9:13 pm

@Houyou no Senshi wrote:
Again as I said its probably just convenience for the writers, if everyone knows who everyone else is. Its not going to get to 200 episodes. I was just trying to give an in-series possible suggestion. I don't think the makers of any versions really want us to think on it. Its not like PGSM with a single writer.

Actually Usagi didn't see it even when she made a connection between Haruka and Uranus. She wouldn't know completely for another ten episodes later when they transformed in front of her.

Perhaps you can't know a Soldier's identity unless they tell you or you see them transform directly.

I figured it had to do with convenience given they only had sixty minutes run time, but that just makes it worse IMO. It just shows that they couldn't think of anything better and took the easy way out. It'd make more sense if they had him recognize Mamoru as Tuxedo Mask first.

Small Lady wrote:
Didn't we already have a thread about this somewheres... ?

I didn't see a thread on this anywhere unless it's not in the anime section.

I made this thread to talk about this part, and it's still relevant to Fiore so no we haven't gotten off topic. If you'd rather I change the topic title then let me know.
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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Fiore in Sailor Moon R   14th March 2013, 9:21 pm

Ah i think its because we had a debate thread about senshi identities and Fiore was brought up in that thread so this just seemed almost the same question. xD

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Fiore in Sailor Moon R   14th March 2013, 9:22 pm

I like the idea that one part of the transformation includes a kinda of barrier that blocks people from seeing the senshi as their civilian counterparts. Some sorta magic optical illusion.

Fiore is not human and possible perceives things differently. Some power that would disrupt what a human is seeing may not effect him.

This is the only things that makes any sense to me.

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Fiore in Sailor Moon R   14th March 2013, 9:26 pm

Saturn Skyy wrote:
I like the idea that one part of the transformation includes a kinda of barrier that blocks people from seeing the senshi as their civilian counterparts. Some sorta magic optical illusion.

Fiore is not human and possible perceives things differently. Some power that would disrupt what a human is seeing may not effect him.

This is the only things that makes any sense to me.

Seeing that the Aliens in the Makaiju tree arc aren't human either and seem to be the same aliens as Fiore, that theory kinda cancels itself out. But maybe its the Kisenian flower he has?

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Fiore in Sailor Moon R   14th March 2013, 9:36 pm

Quote :
I figured it had to do with convenience given they only had sixty minutes run time, but that just makes it worse IMO. It just shows that they couldn't think of anything better and took the easy way out. It'd make more sense if they had him recognize Mamoru as Tuxedo Mask first.

"They" being? Directors and writers vary from episode to episode and many will not have seen all previous episodes. When it comes to movie its a new leaf completely, when it comes to anime movies in Japanese they are not usually supposed to be thought about with respect to the television series unless its been advertised that way. Think of it as a partial spin-off.

I suppose its a bit lazy in a sense, but they had to push out a whole new episode almost every single week for five years...

The Xenian Flower's design is also based off the Youma Kyurene's so I'm not sure its too fair to make comparisons because they look the same.

Quote :
Seeing that the Aliens in the Makaiju tree arc aren't human either and seem to be the same aliens as Fiore, that theory kinda cancels itself out. But maybe its the Kisenian flower he has?

But then again Fiore's full name is supposedly Fioreilu and Xenian... Possibly the designer fro the three characters was the same and they thought it would be a fun connection or something? So there seems to be a connection...

Within the series, perhaps Fiore is simply more intuitive and able to perceive personalities better than the likes of Haruka or Fisheye or Chibiusa. *shrugs*

I really got nothin' on this XD

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Fiore in Sailor Moon R   14th March 2013, 9:50 pm

Small Lady wrote:
Saturn Skyy wrote:
I like the idea that one part of the transformation includes a kinda of barrier that blocks people from seeing the senshi as their civilian counterparts. Some sorta magic optical illusion.

Fiore is not human and possible perceives things differently. Some power that would disrupt what a human is seeing may not effect him.

This is the only things that makes any sense to me.

Seeing that the Aliens in the Makaiju tree arc aren't human either and seem to be the same aliens as Fiore, that theory kinda cancels itself out. But maybe its the Kisenian flower he has?

Darn....well then I'm all outta ideas. Kisenian flower is a great theory

Giant plot hole maybe?

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Fiore in Sailor Moon R   15th March 2013, 9:06 am

@Houyou no Senshi wrote:
Quote :
I figured it had to do with convenience given they only had sixty minutes run time, but that just makes it worse IMO. It just shows that they couldn't think of anything better and took the easy way out. It'd make more sense if they had him recognize Mamoru as Tuxedo Mask first.

"They" being? Directors and writers vary from episode to episode and many will not have seen all previous episodes. When it comes to movie its a new leaf completely, when it comes to anime movies in Japanese they are not usually supposed to be thought about with respect to the television series unless its been advertised that way. Think of it as a partial spin-off.

I suppose its a bit lazy in a sense, but they had to push out a whole new episode almost every single week for five years...

The Xenian Flower's design is also based off the Youma Kyurene's so I'm not sure its too fair to make comparisons because they look the same.

"They" being the writers who worked on the movie.

How did we get on flower designs?
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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Fiore in Sailor Moon R   15th March 2013, 1:31 pm

Brit and Skyy were using Eilu and An to try an justify in-show why Fiore could see while they could not because they look similar.

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Fiore in Sailor Moon R   15th March 2013, 2:13 pm

@Houyou no Senshi wrote:
Brit and Skyy were using Eilu and An to try an
justify in-show why Fiore could see while they could not because they
look similar.

Right. I got confused since it was underneath one of my quotes. Sorry.

@Houyou no Senshi wrote:
Within the series, perhaps Fiore is simply more intuitive and able to perceive personalities better than the likes of Haruka or Fisheye or Chibiusa. *shrugs*

Haha. You hear that, Uranus? You're less intuitive than Mr. Gropey. What you think of that?

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PostSubject: Re: [SPOILER] Fiore in Sailor Moon R   20th April 2013, 8:23 pm

I imagine it might have to do with the writers own oopsie but some catch on while others don't. Fiore had the help of a powerful blossom that gave him a more powerful sense of awareness, made his dream in finding Mamoru easier and why he could tell who they are when others couldn't. When you are more aware, it's easier which is why the senshi at times could tell after such a short period of time(if they didn't realize they still had assumptions of the senshi and their identities after meeting them at separate occasions which connects to their powers of sensing and intuition. We see Fiore also had a highened sense of intuition and sensing which is why it was so easy for him to get the upper hand against the senshi, like he was always one-step ahead of them^^


My own little theory on Fiore being the same race of alien as Ail and Ann yet being able to survive without the tree would be that the kassinium(sp?) blossom acted as a stand in for life energy, and while young they have their own energy like plants(seeds gather energy from around them they can soak up the moisture in the air and the warmth and food from their surrounding soil base but once they are older they must also rely on actual water and sunlight instead of just the soil) which is also why Fiore liked Mamoru, they themselves a type of plant like ET and Mamoru carries a rose^^

In each of these aliens they still have that "seed" of life from which they sprang forth(the slower that revives Sailor Moon) and that seed must be a flower that bloomed on the tree in the first place c:
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