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 Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle

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PostSubject: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   16th August 2011, 3:08 pm

Hallo all,

So, today a notion popped into my head that I couldn't quite push away. This has to do with Princess Serenity.

Now we have discussed in past threads her role in comparison to Usagi or more specifically, Sailor Moon. A few of us have mulled over the notion that Princess Serenity was never a warrior. Her personality was even different from the strength and determination of her reincarnated form of Sailor Moon. In the past you see her innocence and her naivete. On the Moon Kingdom it was never her job (or so it seems from the few snippets we are given), to protect the Moon Kingdom or to be a warrior -- that was why she had her guardians, her senshi. Even the Silver Crystal is a power that never seems to be hers. Queen Serenity possesses it, and perhaps Princess Serenity is meant to receive it when she ascends the throne, but the Silver Crystal that Sailor Moon receives is the one that belonged to her mother. Unlike Chibi Usa, Sailor Moon does not form her own crystal, she inherits it from her mother.

So my point in all of this, is why in the anime whenever there is a huge battle or when Sailor Moon needs to call upon her power does she transform into Princess Serenity, as if her past self is her strongest form?

I can understand why she transforms the first time in the anime -- when she regains her memories and all. The Silver Crystal appears then, a symbol of the past, and she becomes Princess Serenity and regains her memories. However, there is really no need for her to become the Princess when she fights Beryl. I suppose the writers were going with that whole theme of "the Past" and that is why Sailor Moon transformed into her past self to fight Beryl. But still. This does not occur in the manga. The spirit of Princess Serenity fights with her but it is Sailor Moon who defeats Beryl.


She transforms again in the R movie to fight Fiore, again when she jumps over the cliff to save Chibi Usa and also when battling Galaxia, to name a few (the fight against Wiseman fits because technically she becomes Neo Queen Serenity, her future self, although that is still slightly off, but alright).


The fight against Sailor Galaxia is especially amusing to me because 1. She is using her weakest form to fight her most formidable enemy and 2. this whole battle is about Senshi and Princess Serenity really has nothing to do with any of it. Who more fitting to battle against a fellow Senshi and one who is destroying other Senshi than the strongest one, Sailor Moon?

I always loved when Princess Serenity appeared and I thought it so elegant and regal and to make perfect sense because of the Silver Crystal -- but now that I think about it, this does not make sense at all. I went back to the manga to see if it was just me, but no, she stays as her strongest form, Sailor Moon, to wield the Silver Crystal and defeat her enemies.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   16th August 2011, 5:07 pm

Well in the live action, Luna says something along the lines of having to TRAIN her to be a senshi which would support your theories. Serenity has no place, and I think it's proven repeatedly.


Then again, the other senshi were princesses of their home planet, so then where would this thread go?

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   18th August 2011, 9:45 pm

In the R season her turning into her future self does makes sense. It helps Chibiusa snapped out if Wiseman's spell. Also her future self is her strongest form so it helps take out Wiseman faster.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   18th August 2011, 9:49 pm

Yamichan16 wrote:
In the R season her turning into her future self does makes sense. It helps Chibiusa snapped out if Wiseman's spell. Also her future self is her strongest form so it helps take out Wiseman faster.

Although I do not think that her future self is her strongest form (this seems to be the case in the anime though, not the manga), I do agree with you. The theme in the R season became about the future and since Chibi Usa is from the future, who not to help redeem her than her mother? I liked that whole scene very much, although it was a bit amusing to see Mamoru stay as his current self. Technically, he does not quite fit with Neo Queen Serenity. It's almost like ... he's cheating on himself. lol. I am digressing though, aren't I? But it's true!

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   19th August 2011, 1:28 pm

Quote :
though it was a bit amusing to see Mamoru stay as his current self.
He look similar to his future self. They just have different clothes the same goes for Usagi expect for the fact that the crescent moon is on her forehead.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   19th August 2011, 11:49 pm

I think that in her Silver form, her biology is closer to a moon being, so not only is she better able to use the Crystal, but she has a longer lifespan- thus being harder to kill. My theory, anyway.

In a lot of fighting anime- from Pokemon to Yuu Yuu Hakusho to Inuyasha- a person's "ki" (spirit energy) and physical strength are separate, with ki being more like a psychic ability- and people who are strong in one aren't necessarily strong in another, with Kagome being a frail human, but a powerful psychic miko; due to the tradition of miko, young pure girls are often portrayed as having great spiritual powers. I think that Princess Serenity may be meant to represent a sort of miko, in a way: a pure, highly-psychic being better able to channel the crystal's power.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   21st August 2011, 11:32 pm

^^ That's a real interesting way to look at it! And it does make some sense.


I think a lot of it in the anime is for entertainment's sake, because it just looks "cool". Besides, IMO, I just get goosebumps in the R movie when she suddenly transforms to use the crystal. I thought the Stars transforming into the Princess was kinda dumb, but I guess they were like "well we did it with all the seasons before (minus S) so why not now?".

When it comes to the anime, I think a lot things are made the way they are because of entertainment's sake.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   27th August 2011, 12:43 pm

I've always thought that her royal forms (Princess and Neo-Queen) Serenity have the strongest link to the Ginzuishou, and can draw out its power to the fullest extent. That's why in the manga, Usagi transforms into Neo-Queen Serenity in the climaxes of the Infinity and Dream arcs so that she can bring the world back to normal.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   27th August 2011, 2:29 pm

I too always thought that the reason why she transforms into her Princess self is because of her link to the Silver Crystal or to even her mother. What seems faulty about this is that Princess Serenity never uses the Crystal in her past life, only when she turns into Sailor Moon. So, yes, becoming Princess Serenity does seem to make sense as her strongest form, but I think in reality, it does not line up.

Neo Queen Serenity works because that is her future self, one who has had centuries to gain a closer bond to the Silver Crystal.

Quote :
When it comes to the anime, I think a lot things are made the way they are because of entertainment's sake.
Yah, I agree with you completely, B-chan. Which is why I think a lot of the anime was twisted from its original manga story line. And I will confess: her transformation in the R movie always gives me "goosebumps" as well. ^^ I actually just saw the movie again prior to this response and goodness, the scene is just wonderful.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   27th August 2011, 4:42 pm

@Sailor Cosmos wrote:
I've always thought that her royal forms (Princess and Neo-Queen) Serenity have the strongest link to the Ginzuishou, and can draw out its power to the fullest extent. That's why in the manga, Usagi transforms into Neo-Queen Serenity in the climaxes of the Infinity and Dream arcs so that she can bring the world back to normal.

Pretty much this. Also, in my opinion, back to her Moon self, she can be just like her mother, an imponent figure - even though we know she isn't so imponent on her past self, but then there's the "ki" factor, that SailorStarWind stated; several animes/mangas always have the "ki" reference.

She is powerful as Sailor Moon, as a warrior, but her spirit as Princess Serenity is stronger.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   2nd September 2011, 4:53 pm

I believe that kings and queens in all shows have a duty to protect their people, their kingdom, exposing to the highest danger themselves. Its sort of "cliché" to see princesses as a fragile figure who always need protection. In this case, there is no king or queen to protect the kingdom (fellow senshi and prince), but a princess. That's why I think Princess Serenity is the strongest form. She's herself protecting the people she loves, as a great future ruler. I remember that it is referred to Eternal Sailor Moon as the true form of Sailor Moon (if im not mistaking), and you can see that one of the changes in the outfit is that she's not wearing a tiara, but showing her Crescent Moon mark, making it very clear that she is both: the princess and the soldier, all in one.

Let's take for example The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (for those of you who have played it), when Hyrule Castle is being attacked. Princess Zelda is sorrounded by guards, willing to give their life for her, but she's still there, sword in hand, ready to fight. Heck, Nintendo even made a Princess Peach video game. So what I'm saying is I think that it's beautiful to see Sailor Moon transforming into Princess Serenity to fight, it makes sense to me.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   3rd September 2011, 11:08 am

@jaknel wrote:
I believe that kings and queens in all shows have a duty to protect their people, their kingdom, exposing to the highest danger themselves. Its sort of "cliché" to see princesses as a fragile figure who always need protection. In this case, there is no king or queen to protect the kingdom (fellow senshi and prince), but a princess. That's why I think Princess Serenity is the strongest form. She's herself protecting the people she loves, as a great future ruler. I remember that it is referred to Eternal Sailor Moon as the true form of Sailor Moon (if im not mistaking), and you can see that one of the changes in the outfit is that she's not wearing a tiara, but showing her Crescent Moon mark, making it very clear that she is both: the princess and the soldier, all in one.

Let's take for example The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (for those of you who have played it), when Hyrule Castle is being attacked. Princess Zelda is sorrounded by guards, willing to give their life for her, but she's still there, sword in hand, ready to fight. Heck, Nintendo even made a Princess Peach video game. So what I'm saying is I think that it's beautiful to see Sailor Moon transforming into Princess Serenity to fight, it makes sense to me.

I TOTALLY see that. Plus, it's stated in the manga that Eternal Sailor Moon is the one with the closest power to the Queen (Neo-Queen Serenity), which implies, in the manga at least, that NQS is Usagi's strongest form.

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Miss Dream translation:




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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   3rd September 2011, 11:24 am

@Sailor Cosmos wrote:
@jaknel wrote:
I believe that kings and queens in all shows have a duty to protect their people, their kingdom, exposing to the highest danger themselves. Its sort of "cliché" to see princesses as a fragile figure who always need protection. In this case, there is no king or queen to protect the kingdom (fellow senshi and prince), but a princess. That's why I think Princess Serenity is the strongest form. She's herself protecting the people she loves, as a great future ruler. I remember that it is referred to Eternal Sailor Moon as the true form of Sailor Moon (if im not mistaking), and you can see that one of the changes in the outfit is that she's not wearing a tiara, but showing her Crescent Moon mark, making it very clear that she is both: the princess and the soldier, all in one.

Let's take for example The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (for those of you who have played it), when Hyrule Castle is being attacked. Princess Zelda is sorrounded by guards, willing to give their life for her, but she's still there, sword in hand, ready to fight. Heck, Nintendo even made a Princess Peach video game. So what I'm saying is I think that it's beautiful to see Sailor Moon transforming into Princess Serenity to fight, it makes sense to me.

I TOTALLY see that. Plus, it's stated in the manga that Eternal Sailor Moon is the one with the closest power to the Queen (Neo-Queen Serenity), which implies, in the manga at least, that NQS is Usagi's strongest form.

Mixx translation:


Miss Dream translation:




...I've wondered about that quote before. It's plain what Diana seems to be saying, but the NQS in R is kind of a wuss. :S "It's my fault: I couldn't keep a strong heart.... (so all this crap went down and you had to time-travel and people died. Sorry, bros.)" <---I can't remember the second part of the quote, so that's my version. ^^; But I remember the first part. Perhaps NQS was strong when she ascended to the throne, but got weaker later? :? Thoughts? @_@

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   6th September 2011, 10:49 am

I think NQS did get weaker later due to the long period of peace which why when the black moon clan attack she couldn't truly fight back.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   6th September 2011, 11:40 am

Yamichan16 wrote:
I think NQS did get weaker later due to the long period of peace which why when the black moon clan attack she couldn't truly fight back.

We discuss this idea of Neo Queen Serenity possibly having a span of weakness in the Who is Sailor Cosmos? topic. Do feel free to jump in! Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   6th September 2011, 11:47 am

Oh, yeah! I forgot about that! lol XD

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   9th November 2011, 4:33 am

@SailorStarWind wrote:
I think that in her Silver form, her biology is closer to a moon being, so not only is she better able to use the Crystal, but she has a longer lifespan- thus being harder to kill. My theory, anyway.

In a lot of fighting anime- from Pokemon to Yuu Yuu Hakusho to Inuyasha- a person's "ki" (spirit energy) and physical strength are separate, with ki being more like a psychic ability- and people who are strong in one aren't necessarily strong in another, with Kagome being a frail human, but a powerful psychic miko; due to the tradition of miko, young pure girls are often portrayed as having great spiritual powers. I think that Princess Serenity may be meant to represent a sort of miko, in a way: a pure, highly-psychic being better able to channel the crystal's power.

That is the best way to look at it. That and the fact that she's still Sailor Moon, she's almost like half reincarnate Princess Serenity, half Sailor Moon, it's like she summons her past self. Then combine that with the above quote and that's my theory.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   9th November 2011, 5:34 am

When it comes to the Sailor Moon manga and the Sailor Moon anime, I try to keep these two separate. There are just too many differences between the two (which was probably done for entertainment sake) that trying to compare them is kind of like comparing apples and oranges - they're just too different.

So in the anime, I do believe that Princess Serenity is the strongest form of Usagi/Sailor Moon. I believe she is able to use the Silver Crystal to its fullest potential, regardless of the fact that she knows she will either be physically drained or die; she died twice in the anime using the Silver Crystal and the rest of the time she was physically drained. The only exception to this rule is when she was being protrayed as the Messiah in Sailor Moon S and used the "butterfly" image as a symbol of rebirth.

As for the manga, time and time again, it has stated that Usagi's strongest form is Eternal Sailor Moon. BUT!!! Princess Serenity did appear in the Infinity Arc after Saturn and Pharaoh 90 were locked away. Here's some screenshots:









So while Eternal Sailor Moon is the strongest form of Usagi, I do not believe Princess Serenity is her weakest form either. In this form, she was able to pretty much heal the damage done by Pharaoh 90. So while she may not be "battle" ready, she does have a strength to her that she was unable to do as Super Sailor Moon.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   13th April 2013, 4:26 pm

These theories are all so awesome!

I believe that the Ginzuishou is Serenity's Sailor Crystal. I believe that when she was born, the crystal appeared outside of her body and her mother was meant to use it to protect her until she was ready to use it to become a Sailor Senshi.

I believe that ALL of the senshi have similar crystals but unlike Serenity, weren't accessible until they awoke as senshi much like Chibiusa. Something about Serenity and her crystal are slightly different then the rest.

I believe that transforming into a senshi is unnecessary and that they can harness their powers at will but for the sake of uniformity like that of military, uniforms, their fukus were created and they use their own crystals to harness this uniformity that was designed for them but their truest forms are their princess forms, the forms they were born with and the clothing doesn't really matter.

Just a little theory on why their uniforms are so similar, and that it's more a manifestation of their connections to each other but the birthmarks and their crystals make it all possible^^
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   13th April 2013, 4:40 pm

I'm pretty sure that Neo Queen Serenity being weak due to peace is true, however, Rini points out again and again in the manga that if the crystal had not disappeared, causing her to run off then her mother would have been able to save Crystal Tokyo. It was a surprise attack in which Serenity was focused on finding her daughter, and was considerably left defenseless without the crystal.

As Sailor Moon, she always had the Crystal whether it was in her body or on her chest. The crystal was "stolen" by Rini at the time of the attack.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   13th April 2013, 4:53 pm

Quote :
I'm pretty sure that Neo Queen Serenity being weak due to peace is true, however, Rini points out again and again in the manga that if the crystal had not disappeared, causing her to run off then her mother would have been able to save Crystal Tokyo. It was a surprise attack in which Serenity was focused on finding her daughter, and was considerably left defenseless without the crystal.

As Sailor Moon, she always had the Crystal whether it was in her body or on her chest. The crystal was "stolen" by Rini at the time of the attack.

I also agree with this.

I don't think the peace made her weak. She said her heart had become weak, not her strength and that's why I think she seemed so much sadder and more serious then Usagi and why Cosmos was even weaker in heart then Neo Queen Serenity and acted so cowardly and resigned.

The battles and evil she faced over the thousands of years must have tainted her heart and that's what I think she was saying which is why I agree with natashasurgirl when she said NQS would have been able to beat the enemy should she have had her crystal.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   13th April 2013, 5:06 pm

I can agree with you on that. It seemed Neo Queen Serenity was always powerful, but her heart became weak after Stars when she realized that as long as she was alive there would always be evil after her crystal. That's probably not the funnest thing in the world to learn.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   13th April 2013, 5:17 pm

It must be very sad to know that you will always attract evil and that in the end, you will always watch your loved ones die and suffer and that you are responsible for bringing them back and destroying that evil, all alone :/

This is a single chapter story, a one-shot, that explains how Usagi must be feeling knowing that her future is predestined and she will never be a normal girl and her dreams will forever be put on hold for the sake of the world. SO SAD!

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3917839/1/What-Lies-Ahead
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   13th April 2013, 5:27 pm

It's really good. I favorited it.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   14th April 2013, 3:18 pm

I think that her magical powers come from being Serenity in the past. Esp. in the anime, her powers come from her past life on the moon rather than she is today.

In the manga...well I have another long theory on that, haha

Also...she may have become Serenity during big battles because it makes things more dramatic and the dress is so pretty.

Edit: I just read that fanfic - SO GOOD!!! After re-reading the manga recently, I have been thinking that as Usagi goes along all of these battles and journeys, she slowly becomes more and more of Serenity and loses herself. Somewhat similar to the idea of this.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate: Princess Serenity has no place in battle   14th April 2013, 3:56 pm

I agree that is a good theory!

I figured she was happiest as Usagi, and not as Serenity past and future forms because as Serenity she has responsibility and as Usagi, she can be a normal girl which is all she ever wanted :/
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