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PostSubject: Theory: Squaring the Years   28th April 2013, 11:38 pm

We are going to look at the most precise years possible for the Bishōjo Senshi Sailor Moon continuity, for this article we need to accept that the year 1992 AD — is when the first episode was aired or the first manga act was published — as fact. (This particular article can be found in my Deviant Art gallery where I am known as Shinwa-Tsuki.)

A fact that can be found in the manga: King Endymion says that "it occurred to me to send [Small Lady] to the past to get help." He was the one to send Chibi-Usagi to the past to get help from Sailor Moon.1

Also found in the manga is this fact: King Endymion states that Neo-Queen Serenity stopped aging at the age 22 — when she was crowned queen and, presumably a few months later, "gave birth to the first princess." He also states "Crystal Tōkyō, like the Silver Millennium2, entered the age of long life when we ascended to the throne in the 21st century." It is important to remember that they are in the 30th century when he says this, the "we" is King Endymion and his wife, Neo-Queen Serenity, when Sailor Moon and select others visit their future.1

If we believe that the events of the Dark Kingdom arc happened in the year 1992 then that is the year that will be used. The year 1992, and subsequently "present year" for Sailor Moon and her friends, is in the 20th century. If we remember that Sailor Moon was 14 in 1992, which — once calculated — means she was born in the year 1978. Thus, she was crowned in the year 2000. As Chibi-Usagi is 901 in the Black Moon Clan arc, and if we believe that Neo-Queen Serenity was crowned and had given birth in the same year, then for Sailor Moon and her friends the "future year" is 2901 (which is also the year that the selected Soldiers meets King Endymion). It should be known that the year 2901 and the 30th century are in the 3rd millennium, the years 1992 and 2000 are both in the 20th century which is in the 2nd millennium. (It is in my opinion the Silver Millennium was destroyed in year 9564 BC which is in the 96th century BC3, thus in the 10th millennium BC.)

Notes:
1 All the quotes here are, with little modification, from the story format translation from Kurozuki.com which I have downloaded.
2 The Silver Millennium referred to is the reign of Queen Serenity of the Moon.
3 I chose the year 9564 BC as the year the Silver Millennium was destroyed is because theosophic tradition believes that Atlantis was destroyed. That is if we believe that the Golden Kingdom is associated with Atlantis.
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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Squaring the Years   29th April 2013, 7:45 am

Question: Why Atlantis?

Wouldn't it make more sense to associate the Golden Kingdom with Babylonia? Both Endymion myths, both involving him as a shepherd and him as a prince, were centered in that region, with Mount Latmus (where Endymion slept) in Cardia, Turkey, being not too far from where they believed Babylonia to be centered. Having the Golden Kingdom centered in Babylonia would also account for the Four Kings's home locations in the SNES game, Sailor Moon: Another Story, with Kunzite's Middle Eastern kingdom being somewhat to the west, Nephrite's North America to the far far east, Zoisite's kingdom to the North and Jadeite's to the south. Also, in one episode in the series (where Mamoru is invited to an English exchange student ball and the girls can come along) one of the books on his shelves was about the "Ancient Babylonian Language", hinting that he not only remembers his past life, but actually studied up about it.

I mean, the book thing could just be a loose "Well, Mamoru studies weird crap all the time, it doesn't mean that's where the Golden Kingdom was," but since it fit well with the SNES map, the mythology, and tales of Babylonia's greatness, I thought it was a nod to the theory.


But, again, I'm curious to see where your association with Atlantis came from, as I've only heard of Atlantis as an island and water-based society. High society, sure, and technologically advanced to boot, but it had never crossed my mind to associate it with the Kingdom of Earth.

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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Squaring the Years   29th April 2013, 9:57 am

I haven't taken the musicals, the live-action, or any of the games into account. I do recall that the manga has the Shiten'nou associated with the "directions" as well, but I will have to relocation where it is mentioned in the Kurozuki.com downloads that I have.

Could you get a screen cap of the "Ancient Babylonian Language" book you mention?

As for why I associated the Golden Kingdom with Atlantis, it's because of how advance the Earth kingdom was before its downfall, with both kingdoms being fairly advance — Atlantis only more so. Also, it would explain why there is no evidence, on the surface, in the world by the time the Soldiers (even the males) where reincarnated. To me the destruction of Atlantis and the downfall of the Golden Kingdom would coincide with each other. I personally believe that the Golden Kingdom thrived because of association with Atlantis. Atlantis made the most sense for me.

I might not conform to Babylonia as the "real world" association for the Golden Kingdom.
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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Squaring the Years   29th April 2013, 2:54 pm

Could you get a screen cap of the "Ancient Babylonian Language" book you mention?[/quote]
Here is the tumblr post with the whole little play out of Ami reading Mamoru's bookshelves
@Shinwa wrote:
As for why I associated the Golden Kingdom with Atlantis, it's because of how advance the Earth kingdom was before its downfall, with both kingdoms being fairly advance — Atlantis only more so. Also, it would explain why there is no evidence, on the surface, in the world by the time the Soldiers (even the males) where reincarnated. To me the destruction of Atlantis and the downfall of the Golden Kingdom would coincide with each other. I personally believe that the Golden Kingdom thrived because of association with Atlantis. Atlantis made the most sense for me.

I might not conform to Babylonia as the "real world" association for the Golden Kingdom.
But what gave you the impression that the Golden Kingdom was technologically advanced? In the anime the only part of the Earth Kingdom that is shown is when Helios takes them to Elysion, which is all about nature and pillars and zip as far as technology goes; and in the manga whenever we see Serenity sneaking down to Earth to see Endymion, again, it's just nature and pillars and a rather medieval fantasy backdrop; the high technology was on the moon, with their computers and surveillance systems.

And if by 'advanced' you meant socially, economically, or culturally advanced, there was nothing saying that rest of the world wasn't so; or at least the more populated areas.

And for finding evidence on the surface, they're still finding out new things about ancient civilizations - its hidden under the Earth, anthropologists/archaeologists haven't dug (been able to dig) anything close to all of it up yet.


That, and also these was this huge, catastrophic event called the 'Sack of Babylon':
Sack of Babylon - Wikipedia wrote:
The date of the sack of Babylon by the Hittite king Mursilis I is considered crucial to the various calculations of the early chronology of the ancient Near East, since both a solar and a lunar eclipse are said to have occurred in the month of Sivan that year, according to ancient records.
The fall of Babylon is taken as a fixed point in the discussion of the chronology of the ancient Near East. Suggestions for its precise date vary by as much as 150 years, corresponding to the uncertainty regarding the length of the "Dark Age" of the ensuing Bronze Age collapse, resulting in the shift of the entire Bronze Age chronology of Mesopotamia with regard to the chronology of Ancient Egypt. Possible dates for the sack of Babylon are:
ultra-short chronology: 1499 BC
short chronology: 1531 BC
middle chronology: 1595 BC
long chronology: 1651 BC
And this "Bronze Age Collapse" they speak of? Sounds an awful lot like some sort of giant catastrophy
Bronze Age Collapse wrote:
The Bronze Age collapse is a transition in the Aegean Region, Southwestern Asia and the Eastern Mediterranean from the Late Bronze Age to the Early Iron Age that historians such as[...]and others believe was violent, sudden and culturally disruptive. The palace economy of the Aegean Region and Anatolia which characterised the Late Bronze Age was replaced, after a hiatus, by the isolated village cultures of the Greek Dark Ages.
Which, in my opinion, would fit the fall of the Kingdom of Earth perfectly. Their main cultural hub destroyed when Saturn dropped the glaive, it would take time to regroup and would never be in the splendor of the old Earth Kingdom.


And looking back at their culture, their architecture was filled with pillars and pilasters, both featured in Naoko's artwork within the Golden Kingdom setting, their civilization being one of the first to develop the mud brick. They were astronomers, made great strides in medicine (including making diagnoses, prognoses, physical examinations, and prescriptions, showing off high logical skill and rather advances treatments and techniques, such as pills); there were libraries in most towns and temples, women and men were allowed to learn to read and write - it was advanced.

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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Squaring the Years   29th April 2013, 4:24 pm

Technology of the Earth, no; technology of the Moon and other planets, yes.

However, I might use Babylonia to associate with the Golden Kingdom and link Atlantis to something else — maybe in another fandom altogether.... I think I will go with 1651 BC for the downfall of the Golden Kingdom.

Thanks for your opinion, Uranus-san.
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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Squaring the Years   29th April 2013, 5:34 pm

Thank you for providing your insight.

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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Squaring the Years   30th April 2013, 10:48 am

This is very interesting to think about, what an amazing idea! I personally always thought the Golden Kingdom was around the same time as the Roman Empire before Christianity became big. Around when Egypt was also still very influential.

I think this because of the name of the kingdom and it's association with myths about Elysian. The Elysian Fields in mythology was similar to heaven for good soles, and Hades was the equivalent to hell. It was like a dream world, a paradise and we see the Golden Kingdom being that of Dreams.

I don't see Earth as being much technologically advanced but still very advanced for it's time.

Naoko Takeuchi used references from tons of different ancient cultures and myths not just Roman and Japanese. Nemisis, the myth of a 10th planet comes from Sumarian culture and the 10th planet that destroys the earth being labels Nibiru.

I can see the Atlantis only for the way the manga hinted that Elysian was removed from the surface of the Earth, hidden for it's protection in a sort of way, from the evils of humanity. Atlantis is myths "sunk" but in many myths and legends it wasn't always exclaimed as being destroyed but leaving or being hidden and this was the same for Naoko's depiction for Elysion. It still exists, but in a place hidden from the people of Earth despite being a kingdom of Earth.

Instead of being technologically advanced, it must have been advanced in powers, oracles and the like. I see this because Endymoin has powers of his own and Helios as well. He is a priest. He is like a sacred Oracle in ancient times and they were often seen as almost equals to royalty or even gods. Naoko also shown this connection by making Endymoin and Helios linked, if one suffers so does the other and same for the Earth.

One great thing to remember is Earth wasn't apart of the Silver Millennium. Endymoin and Serenity were a forbidden love. When Saturn brought down her Glaive, it was stated she did so to the Silver Millennium and that would be her power did not come down onto the Earth which is why the only life left in the Solar System is the life on Earth. The Golden Kingdom was spared the power the destroyed all the other planets.

Elysian wasn't destroyed, it was in a safe place until Nehelannia was able to destroy it and luckily in the end it was still saved.

The decision to hide it was most likely done when the people of Earth brought war down on the people of the Silver Millennium. The Golden Kingdom linked to Elysian was like Heaven on Earth. Elysian=Heaven= do good, be good, live good. When the people of Earth had forsaken those good values and were tempted by the "Demon God Metallia" they lost their right to that Kingdom, and paradise and the memories of the people of the Silver Millenium were wiped from everything except oral traditions and thus Myth took the place of a real kingdom.

Just my little addition to the theories ^^
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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Squaring the Years   1st May 2013, 9:25 am

To me Elysion would be the holy or sacred grounds withing the Golden Kingdom. In either case, I'm not sure how you, nerf-or-nothing or anyone else, think that Elysion is a paradise for dreams — I can slightly understand it because of the anime, but not really. I'm not sure how the manga hinted that the Golden Kingdom was on the surface... wait, that would be the only way for the Moon Kingdom and other planets could visit. (Nehellenia cursed Elysion with a "black rose of death" which in turn effected Endymion, the Earth, and Helios — all four bodies are linked in health [which makes me curious as to how things survived at the downfall of the past Silver Millennium era, with the death of Endymion] at the very least.)

I'm surprised that no one wants to talk about the years — mainly based on what is said in the manga, as mentioned here, which is the original reason for the topic:

@Shinwa wrote:
We are going to look at the most precise years possible for the Bishōjo Senshi Sailor Moon continuity, for this article we need to accept that the year 1992 AD — is when the first episode was aired or the first manga act was published — as fact. (This particular article can be found in my Deviant Art gallery where I am known as Shinwa-Tsuki.)

....

If we believe that the events of the Dark Kingdom arc happened in the year 1992 then that is the year that will be used. The year 1992, and subsequently "present year" for Sailor Moon and her friends, is in the 20th century. If we remember that Sailor Moon was 14 in 1992, which — once calculated — means she was born in the year 1978. Thus, she was crowned in the year 2000. As Chibi-Usagi is 901 in the Black Moon Clan arc, and if we believe that Neo-Queen Serenity was crowned and had given birth in the same year, then for Sailor Moon and her friends the "future year" is 2901 (which is also the year that the selected Soldiers meets King Endymion). It should be known that the year 2901 and the 30th century are in the 3rd millennium, the years 1992 and 2000 are both in the 20th century which is in the 2nd millennium.
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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Squaring the Years   1st May 2013, 2:49 pm

Oh, the years stuff is already kinda known. ^^' we celebrated Mars's 35th birthday this year. Good math, though!

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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Squaring the Years   1st May 2013, 2:53 pm

Am I the only one who wrote an "essay" about the years? Anyway, at least answer me this: Did any of you think about the birth year for Chibi-Usagi or even the year that she came from?

Think about this: If Chibi-Usagi was born in our reality, she would be 13-years-old on June 30 this year — 2013 AD, this would be true if she was born in 2000 AD.
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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Squaring the Years   1st May 2013, 3:10 pm

I know I had done the math a few years ago...mostly because 2000 is when Usagi would have become Queen, but that is conveniently the same time Chibi-Usa was born.

Although, while she would be 13, I am wondering what age she would be developmentally. At 900 ish she seemed like a 6 year old. Was she still an infant at 13?

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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Squaring the Years   1st May 2013, 3:58 pm

@Shinwa wrote:
Am I the only one who wrote an "essay" about the years? Anyway, at least answer me this: Did any of you think about the birth year for Chibi-Usagi or even the year that she came from?

Think about this: If Chibi-Usagi was born in our reality, she would be 13-years-old on June 30 this year — 2013 AD, this would be true if she was born in 2000 AD.

Saturn Skyy wrote:
I know I had done the math a few years ago...mostly because 2000 is when Usagi would have become Queen, but that is conveniently the same time Chibi-Usa was born.

Although, while she would be 13, I am wondering what age she would be developmentally. At 900 ish she seemed like a 6 year old. Was she still an infant at 13?

^^ Their birthyear information is also available on Sailor Moon websites; I did a quick search on tumblr for the first math check I saw a few years ago (2011? 2012?) where someone was laughing because they thought Naoko's math didn't check out, and then someone popped in correcting the OP's century misconceptions and realigning the years the actual way and pointing out that the neo silver millennium/crystal millennium/whatever started in 2000 and a ton of people replied "O.O NO WAY", but I couldn't find it.

In any case, ^^' it's getting a little too intense in here for me. Good luck!

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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Squaring the Years   1st May 2013, 4:21 pm

Hiiii I'm going to be moving this to "theories and debates" because this seems to be taking a turn for theories to be thrown around and discussed


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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Squaring the Years   1st May 2013, 7:43 pm

Thank Mars-san. It's going to be easier for me to post a "thought" in the general discussions section.

Hm... I did not check to see if others had come to the same math conclusion as I have, I only checked to see what King Endymion had stated and to locate Chibi-Usagi's chronological age.

I think Chibi-Usagi aged until she was physically and mentally 9 years old.
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PostSubject: Re: Theory: Squaring the Years   21st May 2013, 9:07 pm

The discussion about the Golden Kingdom possibly being associated with ancient Babylonia or some other ancient civilization is very interesting. It fits in nicely with my idea that Elysian came into being at the very beginning of human civilization. Smile

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