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 [Debate] What is so special about the Golden Crystal?

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mangaka-chan
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PostSubject: [Debate] What is so special about the Golden Crystal?   Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:04 pm

I was rereading (for the umpteenth time XD;) the Dream arc, and it suddenly occurred to me that Helios never explained why they needed the Golden Crystal to undo Nehellenia's curse. Since the Silver Crystal is so powerful why can't it undo the curse? I feel like the Silver and Golden crystals are somehow different in their nature, much like a yin-yang kind of thing. Something about their difference in power means that while the Silver Crystal on its own can defeat Nehellenia, it cannot save Mamoru and Elysian from the curse. However what's so special about the Golden Crystal, that it can do something that the Silver Crystal can't, isn't very clear cut.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] What is so special about the Golden Crystal?   Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:27 pm

To me, the Golden Crystal is more like the core of the earth, or the heart of the earth o.o

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] What is so special about the Golden Crystal?   Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:39 pm

Haine wrote:
To me, the Golden Crystal is more like the core of the earth, or the heart of the earth o.o

 I was thinking the same thing. To me, the silver crystal is of the moon and the golden crystal is of the earth. I feel like that difference means that they have different powers... but I don't know why. Maybe they are like yin and yang, two halves of a whole, meant to be together and part of why Usagi and Mamoru are so strongly linked. 

So, yes, the silver crystal can defeat her, but maybe the golden crystal has unique healing powers? Though, I feel like the silver crystal can do that too, no?

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] What is so special about the Golden Crystal?   Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:59 pm

@plutonia wrote:
So, yes, the silver crystal can defeat her, but maybe the golden crystal has unique healing powers? Though, I feel like the silver crystal can do that too, no?

Yeah, I feel like from the littler that we were shown the powers of the Golden Crystal and the Silver Crystal are a bit redundant. Both have the power to banish evil, which makes me wonder why the Golden Crystal was so crucial for dispelling Nehellenia's curse. I feel like the Golden Crystal's powers might be more directly tied to the Earth? That maybe the Silver Crystal, because it protects the Earth from the outside, cannot heal curses afflicting the Earth's core (i.e. Elysian) but is perfectly good at defeating enemies on the Earth's surface (so the Silver Crystal kinda like a topical antiseptic, while the Golden Crystal is more analogous to an oral antibiotic the microbiologist in me is making this analogy XD;;).
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] What is so special about the Golden Crystal?   Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:03 pm

Hmm I agree with some of that assessment considering the origins of both crystals and their particular guardians.   

After all, Nehellenia (while being sealed away/or whatever really I can't tell if she died or was just sealed back in to the eclipse) did say that Mamoru's guardian Star is the Sun-or something along those lines.  Seeing as the sun is usually considered a male energy to the Moon's female energy, it would seem pretty much a match set.

 though I wish Naoko took more time to develop what each crystals can personally do and not do more. Like have more time to develop the mythos behind them to see where they differ and where they can work better together. 

So far it just seems almost like a reversal of things considering this particular world.  The Sun-usually more overwhelming kind of power/energy(you can literally feel sunlight,its effects on the world as a whole).   while the Moon- is more soft in a sense. Like you don't see the obvious effects of the Moon (like it's gravitational pull on the earth or what it does for our oceans).

In this, it's actually the reverse.  The moon gives obvious effects but the sun is more subtle. 

And yes, I know, Mamoru is the Earth Prince and the Earth is his star.
(though it's weird- does this mean he has two domains?  The Earth with life and the Sun?)

if so, it means there's a great deal of potential that the golden crystal can do but it'll never be expanded on except in fanfiction/headcanons I think.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] What is so special about the Golden Crystal?   Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:24 am

For me, I think the whole reason why the curse could only be lifted with the Golden Crystal is because the Golden Crystal is the crystal of the Earth. The curse itself was only affecting the Earth and therefore Mamoru and Helios since both and all three are interconnected. The only reason Usagi is affected by the curse is because she's so connected to Mamoru, they are soul mates and therefore her soul is directly linked with his and therefore is also linked to them.

Since the origin of the curse was to affect the earth, Helios and Mamou, Mamoru's powers needed to be awakened in order to cleanse itself.

Before this curse, his powers were dormant. If his powers weren't dormant the curse might have had no affect.

Killing Nehelania wouldn't end the curse, since curses don't always end with the death of the person who had cast it.

Since the crystal was dormant, the curse affected everything above it leaving the crystal untouched. As the dormant crystal rose to the surface, it's light was able to cleanse the darkness that was the curse, and purify it.

It's like how Chibiusa was Black Lady. She was overtaken by evil because her crystal, her true power was dormant, and as it rose to the surface, it purified the darkness. The same way Hotaru was able to cleanse her body of Mistress 9. A dormant power that lay unaffected by the evil. The evil, the darkness, taken surprise by a light it never knew was there.

These crystals, the Silver Crystal, the Golden Crystal, the Pink Moon Crystal, the Saturn Crystal. They are senshi crystals.

And senshi crystals are like souls that die and are recycled through the cauldron and then reborn again.

So since they are souls, the Silver Crystal being Usagi's soul and the Golden Crystal being Mamoru's crystal, it makes sense that Usagi was affected by the curse since as I mentioned, they are SOUL mates and therefore not only through love, but their powers they are intertwined.

Since they are connected by soul, as the manga mentions, they give each other strength and make each other stronger but this plus comes with a negative, what makes them weak, makes the other weak as well^^
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] What is so special about the Golden Crystal?   Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:50 am

You raise some excellent points Ktenshi. The series does suffer a bit from the ideas not being as well planned out beforehand. But then again, everyone makes mistakes, and things don't always go smoothly, do they? I mean no disrespect to the creator though. 

The Golden Crystal is kind of a problematic subject. One reason why it may have been needed to stop Nehellenia could be that her origin from another Moon (or Earth's moon, depending on which continuity), made her resistant to the moon magic of the Silver Crystal or something. I don't know, it's the first thought that went into my head.

And about the Sun thing, I think you're really onto something there. When I see the Golden Crystal, I don't think of it as the Earth crystal. I think the Sun. It's gold like the Sun, and it's in a different class than the other crystals. It's the GOLDEN Crystal, not the Earth Crystal, just like how the Moon crystal is called the Silver Crystal. And the way it reacts with the Silver Crystal is also telling. Its presence amplifies the Silver Crystal. The magic of each feeds on each other like complements. Silver and gold complements of great magical strength... I think Sun and Moon, not Moon and Earth. And when I read that they amplify each other, I just think about how the real Moon is like a big solar mirror, with moonlight being reflected sunlight. Maybe in a similar sense, the light/magic of the Golden Crystal reflects off the Silver Crystal to make it glow bright/be stronger.

Ktenshi, you pointed out how the Moon seems stronger in SM and the Sun is subtle, and that just reminds me of a question I asked myself once, why is the Moon the most powerful magical force? Why did it get such incredible power? I think the difference you see is because of symbolism, and SM has a lot of that.

In astrology, the influence of the Moon and Sun, the luminaries, are the largest, with the Sun being first. In magic, it's a bit different. I have a book called The Encyclopedia of Magic and Alchemy. It has an entry on the moon. The entry stated that while early man worshiped both Sun and Moon, and recognized the Sun as the giver of life, more magic was based on the Moon.

People saw the connection between the Moon's phases with the tides and nature, and thought it influenced all life cycles, from rain to plant life, to everything else. It represented the interconnectedness of life, everything moving in harmony. If they could harness that power, they could influence life. And so began the practice of magic. See the point? In magic and symbolism, it's the Moon that outshines the Sun. This explains why the Silver Crystal is so very strong, and why between the Silver and Golden Crystals, it is the Moon has stronger magic... because more magic is based in the Moon's power.

And it's all about the Sun. That's the weird thing. I know Mamoru is supposed to be the defender of the Earth, but his crystal evokes more solar imagery and symbolism than it does the Earth. Maybe it's also because in astrology, the Earth has no significance. It also doesn't help when his Sun sign is Leo, the only sign ruled by the Sun.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] What is so special about the Golden Crystal?   Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:49 pm

I think Phantom53 is right. The golden crystal is the star seed of Mamoru and even though it is suppose to be associated with the earth it may be really associated with the sun. Moon/Sun, Silver Crystal/Golden Crystal, two halves of a whole just as Usagi and Mamoru are. I also think that because the golden crystal is associated with the earth they need it to dispel the evil since it effects the earth's inhabitants.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] What is so special about the Golden Crystal?   Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:57 pm

I don't know if I can agree with the idea that the Golden Crystal was to be used because stuff (Nehelenia) was only affecting the Earth. Why? Because each season/arc is dealing with things only happening to the Earth. It's not the moon that is being attacked when Usagi uses the Silver Crystal each arc, it's the Earth and only Earth.

Honestly? I agree with the Golden Crystal representing/being the heart of the Earth. I like the yin-yang idea with the Silver and Golden Crystal as well. But, I think they focused on the Golden Crystal to actually highlight that aspect of Mamoru and equate him to Usagi. Nothing really special about it, just wanted to make him a perfect other piece to Usagi. It was about having Mamoru (and everyone else) realize that Mamoru is equal to Usagi.

Also, Mamoru is guardian of the Earth, not the sun. He is the representative of Earth and has the Earth Sailor Crystal. Now, just because the Golden Crystal represents the Earth doesn't mean it couldn't represent the sun, too. The sun gives life to the Earth. Protects the Earth. So why not both? But in formalities, pretty sure Mamoru is the guardian of Earth.

Why Nehelenia went after the Golden Crystal? Perhaps because she too loved Mamoru. Or maybe she wanted to take something away from Usagi's perfect other half/piece, causing them to not be as powerful. Perhaps Nehelenia thought outside the box during her time. Or perhaps she couldn't use the Silver Crystal at all, even if she wanted to, but she COULD use the Golden Crystal. If that were the case, why not go after a crystal as equally amazing as the Silver Crystal?

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] What is so special about the Golden Crystal?   Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:03 pm

^Oh without a doubt the Golden Crystal was meant in part to create symmetry between Usagi and Mamoru, besides being a driver for the arc's plot. Of course I still think of it as representing the Sun, but that's me. I know there is someone here with their own headcanon stating that is is a fusion between the crystals of the Sun and Earth. I think it's...Sailor Uranus maybe. Whoever it is, I'm sorry I can't remember. Your name just escapes me.

With my current headcanon, I would contend that the Golden Crystal was sought after for its power and because it was insurance against the Silver Crystal, since in my headcanon, the two are NEVER to be used against each other, since they seem to be complementary powers. They really don't like that. In my headcanon, the last time that happened...did not end well.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] What is so special about the Golden Crystal?   Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:27 pm

Reading your thoughts on this, I think I began to form a headcanon myself.

Maybe Nehellenia went after the Golden Crystal after her being imprisoned in the mirror, because she doesn't stand a chance again the Silver Crystal, no matter what being of light (Queen Serenity or the Princess) uses it, since it's power was the one that got her inside the mirror. The point is, in order to overpower this sort of curse, Nehellenia needs to be able to use the Golden Crystal.

I'm a little rusty on my knowledge about the manga right now. Somehow, Mamoru got sick during the process because the planet he's supposed to protect has been weakened by the Dead Moon's influence, and he's directly linked to the Earth, explaining his illness. I'm not sure why, but the power of the Silver Crystal during the Dream arc seemed to only be able to erase the evil behind this, but not the damage done. That's when the Golden Crystal is needed, so Mamoru's power awakens, and he's able to use it to heal the Earth. 

Spoiler:
 

All of this only makes sense in the manga, though. The anime, at least SuperS, is just a mess that we can only hope to understand through headcanons, or else just accept that everything that happens is legit and then move on.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] What is so special about the Golden Crystal?   Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:08 am

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] What is so special about the Golden Crystal?   Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:34 am

I always thought it was mamoru's star seed. Then again, through the events of SuperS and other series it was never made clear, due to it being a later implemented idea by naoko.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] What is so special about the Golden Crystal?   Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:37 pm

@nerf-or-nothing wrote:
For me, I think the whole reason why the curse could only be lifted with the Golden Crystal is because the Golden Crystal is the crystal of the Earth. The curse itself was only affecting the Earth and therefore Mamoru and Helios since both and all three are interconnected. The only reason Usagi is affected by the curse is because she's so connected to Mamoru, they are soul mates and therefore her soul is directly linked with his and therefore is also linked to them.

Since the origin of the curse was to affect the earth, Helios and Mamou, Mamoru's powers needed to be awakened in order to cleanse itself.

Before this curse, his powers were dormant. If his powers weren't dormant the curse might have had no affect.

Killing Nehelania wouldn't end the curse, since curses don't always end with the death of the person who had cast it.

Since the crystal was dormant, the curse affected everything above it leaving the crystal untouched. As the dormant crystal rose to the surface, it's light was able to cleanse the darkness that was the curse, and purify it.

It's like how Chibiusa was Black Lady. She was overtaken by evil because her crystal, her true power was dormant, and as it rose to the surface, it purified the darkness. The same way Hotaru was able to cleanse her body of Mistress 9. A dormant power that lay unaffected by the evil. The evil, the darkness, taken surprise by a light it never knew was there.

These crystals, the Silver Crystal, the Golden Crystal, the Pink Moon Crystal, the Saturn Crystal. They are senshi crystals.

And senshi crystals are like souls that die and are recycled through the cauldron and then reborn again.

So since they are souls, the Silver Crystal being Usagi's soul and the Golden Crystal being Mamoru's crystal, it makes sense that Usagi was affected by the curse since as I mentioned, they are SOUL mates and therefore not only through love, but their powers they are intertwined.

Since they are connected by soul, as the manga mentions, they give each other strength and make each other stronger but this plus comes with a negative, what makes them weak, makes the other weak as well^^

This explanation fits rather well. It offers a parallelism across manga arcs in Naoko's storytelling, whether intentional or not, that the first four arcs are essentially the wielders of dormant Sailor Crystals uncovering the untapped power within and using it to dispel darkness that underestimated how powerful said crystals are.
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[Debate] What is so special about the Golden Crystal?

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