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ToriJ
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PostSubject: Breakup subplot in R   2nd October 2013, 11:14 am

I didn't know whether to put this in the subbed or dubbed anime boards, as this is to talk about the storyline more in general than any specific translation of it. I trust the staff will move where applicant if this is the wrong spot.

So... I'm seeing a lot of people weren't too happy with the breakup subplot in Sailor Moon R. How come? I'm genuinely curious to what faults fans find in this. Back when I was a kid and used to watch the first two seasons over and over again when it used to air at 6:30AM on weekdays the breakup was one of the things about R that really pulled me in. I made it a point to set up my VCR (anyone remember VCRs?) to tape it every morning so I could see where they would take the story. Just the tension whenever Usagi and Mamoru were in the same scene together was gripping and made it all the more rewarding IMO when they finally did get back together. I'll concede that the reasoning behind it was a "WTF" moment, but I found the journey and resolution to be rewarding and it kept me coming back for more.

Discuss.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   2nd October 2013, 12:09 pm

Well to be fair, it was only added in to let the manga get far enough ahead of the anime.

It just makes Mamo look like a gigantic douche. How dare he decide what's in Usagi's best interests? He's basing breaking up with her because of a stupid dream/vision, and can't at least even give her the courtesy of a decent excuse? He's hurting her so bad but, y'know, as long as his conscience is clear, who cares?

I get why he does it, kinda, but it's a horrible thing to do.

That, and that it's all blown over with no repercussions AND the Senshi just stand back and let it all happen (Like that would ever happen).

And the phone box scene... OMGGGG the phone box scene...

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   2nd October 2013, 12:12 pm

1. It took them the whole damn first season to become a couple and then he gets brainwashed and killed.

2. In the first Arc of R, he doesn't even remember who Usagi is until the Arc ends.

3. Not too long after that, they break up.

THAT'S WHY IT PISSED ME OFF.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   2nd October 2013, 12:15 pm

Pretty much what Rei Said. I'm not going into details because the last time I decided to type out why I didn't like it I had a 20 page word document. Seriously though the one time I had a guy dump me cause of a dream yea lets just say he's afraid of half the people I hang out with now. so yea the break up in R just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth and I hate Mamoru all the more for it. So glade it wasn't in the manga because I love Mamo-Chan in it.The break up is one of the main Reasons R is my least favorite part of the series.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   2nd October 2013, 12:19 pm

It's not that a break up plot is bad. A little drama can go a long way. The problem for me was the execution and conclusion of it. Most of my complaints are on the production side of things.

The timing of it was too soon for it. They just got their memories back and in two episodes, the writers break them up. I also felt it lasted too many episodes. Frankly if I was going to end it, it would be at the 'Sleeping Beauty' episode of the season.

I wish that the threat that Mamoru saw in his dreams was a legitimate threat and not simply visions (kinda like when he avoided Usagi in the Dream Arc of the manga because he didn't want the curse to pass to her, which it did). The whole, Mamoru sent dreams to himself, was a lame way to make him look even more like a jerk.

Another issue was how unconcern Usagi's friends (or to an extension, her family) were to her. I did not see them trying to comfort her while she was suffering. I would have liked to see at least one of them to yell at Mamoru about how much of an idiot he's acting.

Usagi never got angry with Mamoru. I get that she does not usually get seriously angry, but he was the love of her life and he just broke up with no reason. I think that she was entitled to being furious. Plus she comes off as weak when she just collapses in tears everytime she sees him (and for that matter, why did Mamoru hang out with Chibiusa so much if he knew that Usagi was responsible for her?)

Finally, the conclusion. The conclusion was so abrupt. So Usagi just finds out why and all of a sudden everything is good? He broke up with her out of the blue over dreams, made her suffer for weeks or month, and then she just accepts him back into her life without any doubts at all. It just sounds too unbelievable to me. I felt he should have worked to earn their relationship back through multiple episodes and Usagi be more resistant in accepting him back.

If you enjoy the break up subplot, that is all good, but for me, they could have done way better than they had.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   2nd October 2013, 12:20 pm

I also adored the breakup subplot. It gives me major feelings. But I'm generally into romantic drama. And many people may not be so.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   2nd October 2013, 12:27 pm

@SenshiRei wrote:
Well to be fair, it was only added in to let the manga get far enough ahead of the anime.

It just makes Mamo look like a gigantic douche. How dare he decide what's in Usagi's best interests? He's basing breaking up with her because of a stupid dream/vision, and can't at least even give her the courtesy of a decent excuse? He's hurting her so bad but, y'know, as long as his conscience is clear, who cares?

I get why he does it, kinda, but it's a horrible thing to do.

That, and that it's all blown over with no repercussions AND the Senshi just stand back and let it all happen (Like that would ever happen).

And the phone box scene... OMGGGG the phone box scene...
Just because it was added in as filler doesn't make it a bad plot though. That was the main reason we got the Doom Tree Saga and that was great. And said vision basically told him that Usagi was going to die if they stayed together so I'd hardly call it stupid. Had he told the truth Usagi would have just reassured him everything would be all right and try even harder to stay together. Being douchy was kind of the best route to take, granted it didn't work but I get his general mindset.

Can't comment on the rest because I have no idea how Japanese girls would have approached this kind of situation.

@Lust wrote:
1. It took them the whole damn first season to become a couple and then he gets brainwashed and killed.

2. In the first Arc of R, he doesn't even remember who Usagi is until the Arc ends.

3. Not too long after that, they break up.

THAT'S WHY IT PISSED ME OFF.
Seems more to do with poor timing on the writers part.

Edit: Just saw magic713's post. Snuck by me there.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   2nd October 2013, 12:34 pm

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
I also adored the breakup subplot. It gives me major feelings. But I'm generally into romantic drama. And many people may not be so.
Oh no I like romantic drama but the R break up was a how can we make Mamoru look more like an chibi hole than he already does. that's not to say I'm saying no one should like it but I don't think that was romantic drama that was a yes he's all ready an chibi lets make him more so  it's not like we haven't already made people hate him and than make the senshi seem like they are not real friends by all but telling her to get over it no big deal. Oh did I forget to mention the senshi not seeming to be to worried about it and accepting him back so quickly is one reason I hated the inners for so long and actually felt they weren't true friends for a while. sorry a guy broke up with my best friend for something so stupid would be getting his butt kicked. (sorry to say it guys Haruka woulda hunted his butt down and beat the crap outta him for that one)

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   2nd October 2013, 12:52 pm

@ToriJ wrote:
@SenshiRei wrote:
Well to be fair, it was only added in to let the manga get far enough ahead of the anime.

It just makes Mamo look like a gigantic douche. How dare he decide what's in Usagi's best interests? He's basing breaking up with her because of a stupid dream/vision, and can't at least even give her the courtesy of a decent excuse? He's hurting her so bad but, y'know, as long as his conscience is clear, who cares?

I get why he does it, kinda, but it's a horrible thing to do.

That, and that it's all blown over with no repercussions AND the Senshi just stand back and let it all happen (Like that would ever happen).

And the phone box scene... OMGGGG the phone box scene...
Just because it was added in as filler doesn't make it a bad plot though. That was the main reason we got the Doom Tree Saga and that was great. And said vision basically told him that Usagi was going to die if they stayed together so I'd hardly call it stupid. Had he told the truth Usagi would have just reassured him everything would be all right and try even harder to stay together. Being douchy was kind of the best route to take, granted it didn't work but I get his general mindset.

Can't comment on the rest because I have no idea how Japanese girls would have approached this kind of situation.
No, I'm not saying filler is bad - I love the Doom Tree Arc. However, because of timing issues, it was thrown in far too soon, not seemingly well thought out, dragged out far too long and ended abruptly. Also, manga fans don't always like 'extra' anime stuff.

I say a 'stupid' dream/vision as it not real, it's not someone legit threatning him, it's not an immediate danger and it turns out to be nothing. I'm sure it wasn't stupid to him, but he has no right to decide Usagi's future. She's Sailor Moon - she's been through a lot, don't treat her as if she's a little girl. It's disprespectful. She's clearly not moving on; he needs to work with her on relationship issues, not on behalf of her. It's just not how relationships work.

'No idea how Japanese girls would have approach this kind of situation'?? Come on, it's nothing to do with Japanese girls and everything to do with our girls and there's no way in hell they'd allow that to happen.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   2nd October 2013, 1:59 pm

@Moonlight Lady wrote:
chibi hole
Moments like these are when I'm grateful for the censored words. Made me chuckle.

@SenshiRei wrote:
'No idea how Japanese girls would have approach this kind of situation'?? Come on, it's nothing to do with Japanese girls and everything to do with our girls and there's no way in hell they'd allow that to happen.
Our girls are Japanese girls. This past year alone I learned more about the cultural differences between there and here that actually explained some things that used to confuse me about Sailor Moon so I'm more cautious with analyzing things because there's always that cultural difference that may sound crazy to us but normal to them. Not saying that's why the story panned out the way it did just saying it's a possibility.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   2nd October 2013, 2:05 pm

yea I chuckled a bit to tori

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   3rd October 2013, 1:27 am

You know, I thought this over so many times, and I think I've got it. Here's my explanation behind what happened.

Okay, we know that King Endymion said that he sent Mamoru the visions to make sure that he and Usagi were seriously committed to each other and their love wasn't fickle or weak. Now, like most people, I thought this was ridiculous. Wouldn't Endymion, of all people, know how deep and strong their bonds were? He knew he had loved Usagi more than anyone. He had married her, after all.

But then I realized that just because their love was eventually successful didn't mean Mamoru didn't have doubts at first. Remember, this is Mamoru we're talking about. He's always full of doubt about himself. He's probably still amazed that someone as cute, outgoing, and fun as Usagi would be in love with someone like him. As such, his relationship with Usagi might not be as mature and developed as it would eventually be.

Ultimately, Endymion's goal was to strengthen Mamoru's resolve. He had absolute faith that Usagi would get through to him, and that they'd be stronger for the experience. He also knew more than anyone the inner workings of Mamoru's mind--after all, he was his past self.

I don't know. It makes me feel better.
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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   5th October 2013, 6:43 am

I think that king Endymion sent these dreams after it was obvious that Usagi and Mamoru will soon learn about their marriage in future. They were truly in love and wanted to be together for always - but they needed to feel that both of them would choose each other even if it was not supposed to be.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   5th October 2013, 7:29 am

@SenshiRei wrote:
Well to be fair, it was only added in to let the manga get far enough ahead of the anime.
I don't think it was added just because of that - they could buy time in other way.

@SenshiRei wrote:
He's basing breaking up with her because of a stupid dream/vision, and can't at least even give her the courtesy of a decent excuse?
It's not stupid dream/vision - it's seeing death of your most beloved one every night for weeks. Also, it's usually forgotten that Mamoru had meaningful dreams for most of his life.
His reason given to her was that he doesn't love her anymore, which in my book was pretty decent excuse.

Quote :
That, and that it's all blown over with no repercussions AND the Senshi just stand back and let it all happen (Like that would ever happen).
I sincerely don't know what you mean by this - it did happen. One may not like it, but it did in canon.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   5th October 2013, 8:03 am

This plot point could have been a great idea.
It shows how selfless Mamoru is. He's been alone all of his life. But somebody told him that him being with Usagi would cause her death. He's giving up the only thing that makes him happy in his life for her sake.

I don't get people who say Mamoru was being selfish / a chibi here. He was obviously the one who suffered more of this.

The thing that made the whole subplot weak was that Endimyon had no chibi reasons to do this.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   5th October 2013, 8:16 am

@magic713 wrote:
 The timing of it was too soon for it. They just got their memories back and in two episodes, the writers break them up.
I think it was better that it was just after they began - if Mamoru hid something like that later in relationship, it would be worse. (therefore, I didn't more like his behaviour in Dream arc - after more than year together).

Quote :
I also felt it lasted too many episodes. Frankly if I was going to end it, it would be at the 'Sleeping Beauty' episode of the season.
IMO, it wouldn't have the necessary emotional impact, if it was shorter. Remember that this story was not just about them, but also about Chibiusa and girls' powerups.

Quote :
I wish that the threat that Mamoru saw in his dreams was a legitimate threat and not simply visions (kinda like when he avoided Usagi in the Dream Arc of the manga because he didn't want the curse to pass to her, which it did).
And if it didn't, should he be judged differently? How could any of Mamorus know, whether this threat was legitimate?

Quote :
Another issue was how unconcern Usagi's friends (or to an extension, her family) were to her. I did not see them trying to comfort her while she was suffering.
Except they did? Ami, Mako and Rei comforted her, Luna confronted Mamoru, all including Chibiusa cheered on her to get him.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   5th October 2013, 8:19 am

Blame the Future Rose Ikemen. Not the 90s Rose Ikemen.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   5th October 2013, 12:26 pm

Pretty much what everyone said :p It's like dude we've waited all this time for them to be together and now they're not. In the end it's sweet but like at the same time they dragged it on for so. long. Every frigging episode would be like "Omg I'm so sad because Mamo-chan is gone omg there he is I ran into him and now I'm depressed why aren't we together" and it's just like WE GET IT ALREADY THEY'RE BROKEN UP GEEZ

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   12th December 2013, 12:56 pm

I absolutely hated that subplot. Unlike a few of the lovely posters in here, I personally don't mind the fact that it was used to make the anime drag on a bit more. I had no problems with the early R arc with Ali and Ann, and I think complaining about non-manga events in the anime is rather silly, since the anime is on the larger whole it's own thing. But the way they executed it was just dreadful and it put Mamoru in a horrible, horrible light. 

First of all, let's face it, this is not an uncommon plot device to create drama. A lot of movies have done it, from the top of my head, I remember one of the Spiderman movies did it, and Moulin Rouge did it. In order to protect the life of the person you love, you separate yourself them them and try to make them believe that you no longer love them. Self-sacrificing, heartbreaking drama for the whole family. It's not a plot device I'm a fan of, I actually think it's very cheap drama, but the worst thing about it in most cases where it's done, and this is unfortunately the case with Sailor Moon, is very simple:

It's stupid and makes no sense.

There is zero, I repeat, zero reason why Mamoru could not have told Usagi about the visions in his dream. It would have been so easy for him to explain that he has had reoccurring visions of her death, that he is extremely worried about this and feel they are to be taken seriously, and that the visions are telling him to stay away from her. He suggests that, hard as it might be, they should stay away from each other until they can figure this out. And if he feels too afraid to tell this directly to her, then tell it to any of the inners. Hell, tell freaking Luna, as long as you tell someone who can then tell it to Usagi. But instead, what does Mamoru do? He tells her he doesn't love her, he claims he has felt obliged to be with her because of their past, he says he hates weak girls, he refers to her as just some girl he knows.

Mamoru's attempt to protect Usagi is by destroying her, and also himself, psychologically and emotionally.

Telling her the truth would have taken no time at all, and it's not like they couldn't be anywhere near each other or speak to each other without something bad happening, that became evident the very moment he broke up with her, which was a pretty long moment of talking to her, and even more so in the episode where they spent an entire day cooking together in Mamoru's apartment. If he had just replaced all those completely unnecessary and horrible lies, which only lead to his own and Usagi's suffering, with the actual truth, none of this stupid drama would have needed to take place beyond simply "what are those visions, and how do we solve this so that we can be together again?".

So all the drama was not only pointless, but as the cherry on the top of the disastrous writing cake, the entire reason behind why Mamoru had these visions to begin with was a complete cop out of "it was to test your love" that was mentioned by King Endymion so quickly you could probably have blinked and missed it.

So yeah. Horrible, horrible subplot.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   12th December 2013, 1:39 pm

^this is exactly my point and the reason I hate that certain plot in R (well than add the fact that R is also my least favorite season but we will ignore that for the time being)

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   22nd January 2014, 8:09 am

i agree with Lust's first comments about the breakup...

i have been thinking everyone says Mamoru was alone and had no one to go to during this time, because it was shown that doing this to Usagi was hurting him.

But at the same time even though Usagi was surrounded by her friends, she never talked about it or asked for help, just like in the Stars arc...look how long it took before anyone found out she hadnt heard from Mamo. Usagi wants to protect everyone...I get it...but girl if you got something eating at you and making you sad, your friends are there to help.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   4th August 2014, 12:09 pm

@Louchan wrote:
I absolutely hated that subplot. Unlike a few of the lovely posters in here, I personally don't mind the fact that it was used to make the anime drag on a bit more. I had no problems with the early R arc with Ali and Ann, and I think complaining about non-manga events in the anime is rather silly, since the anime is on the larger whole it's own thing. But the way they executed it was just dreadful and it put Mamoru in a horrible, horrible light. 

First of all, let's face it, this is not an uncommon plot device to create drama. A lot of movies have done it, from the top of my head, I remember one of the Spiderman movies did it, and Moulin Rouge did it. In order to protect the life of the person you love, you separate yourself them them and try to make them believe that you no longer love them. Self-sacrificing, heartbreaking drama for the whole family. It's not a plot device I'm a fan of, I actually think it's very cheap drama, but the worst thing about it in most cases where it's done, and this is unfortunately the case with Sailor Moon, is very simple:

It's stupid and makes no sense.

There is zero, I repeat, zero reason why Mamoru could not have told Usagi about the visions in his dream. It would have been so easy for him to explain that he has had reoccurring visions of her death, that he is extremely worried about this and feel they are to be taken seriously, and that the visions are telling him to stay away from her. He suggests that, hard as it might be, they should stay away from each other until they can figure this out. And if he feels too afraid to tell this directly to her, then tell it to any of the inners. Hell, tell freaking Luna, as long as you tell someone who can then tell it to Usagi. But instead, what does Mamoru do? He tells her he doesn't love her, he claims he has felt obliged to be with her because of their past, he says he hates weak girls, he refers to her as just some girl he knows.

Mamoru's attempt to protect Usagi is by destroying her, and also himself, psychologically and emotionally.

Telling her the truth would have taken no time at all, and it's not like they couldn't be anywhere near each other or speak to each other without something bad happening, that became evident the very moment he broke up with her, which was a pretty long moment of talking to her, and even more so in the episode where they spent an entire day cooking together in Mamoru's apartment. If he had just replaced all those completely unnecessary and horrible lies, which only lead to his own and Usagi's suffering, with the actual truth, none of this stupid drama would have needed to take place beyond simply "what are those visions, and how do we solve this so that we can be together again?".

So all the drama was not only pointless, but as the cherry on the top of the disastrous writing cake, the entire reason behind why Mamoru had these visions to begin with was a complete cop out of "it was to test your love" that was mentioned by King Endymion so quickly you could probably have blinked and missed it.

So yeah. Horrible, horrible subplot.

^^^^THIS!

I hatedddd this subplot. It made Mamoru look like a complete dumb azz. Why can't you just tell her what the hell is going instead of dragging it out, making everyone involved suffer? And then you say you are DONE with her but then you keep on saving her as Tuxedo Mask. And THEN I hate how Usagi acted once he abandoned their relationship. She was crying all the time about it and never moving on. I get it, she's in love with him but it made her look pathetic, weak and stupid. He said everything he could during that time to tell her it was over and Usagi could not get it through her head. I couldn't stand it! Stupid stupid plot!
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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   4th August 2014, 9:20 pm

My other problem with this subplot is that it makes Mamoru look like he doesn't have any trust in Usagi.  Mamoru and Usagi had been through so many tragedies and hardships and by breaking up for her because she MIGHT not believe his dream makes it seem like Mamoru thinks less of Usagi and every relationship counselor will tell you that the two most important elements of any relationship is trust and communication, both of which Mamoru completely fails at.   Also, this season was directed by Kunihiko Ikuhara of Utena fame so you know he can do amazing romantic drama if he really tried but it's like he didn't even try with this season for some reason so he had no excuse for how this season turned out.
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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   6th August 2014, 5:26 pm

I don't mind it too much but I wish some people would say it from Mamoru's POV. Usagi at least has her friends, Luna and her family to go to for support. Mamoru has NO ONE except for Andrew or Chibiusa. Plus he could have been afraid that if he told Usagi the truth, that might have gotten her killed since Usagi would have known that Mamoru still loves her.

Mamoru has been almost alone his life and he gave up Usagi because he wasn't thinking about himself, he was thinking about her. Then he would have to also save her and he would be so close to her but he just can't be with her. I personally like romantic drama as it keeps it interesting.

King Endymion wanted to test Mamoru to see if he would actually break up with Usagi and he did. Then he tested Usagi to see if she wanted to be with Mamoru while also risking her life and she did it.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   6th August 2014, 6:14 pm

I just have no idea why Endymion felt the need to test Mamoru's feelings for Usagi.  Endymion is Mamoru...he knows how he feels about her.  I really just don't see the point.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   24th March 2015, 2:01 pm

I'm also kinda bothered on how none of the senshi kinda comfort Usagi much. We see 2 scenes with Rei but what about that scene where he continued to reject her, so she started crying while on her knees while Ami and Mako just stayed silent watching behind. 

I know its none of their business but if I were them, I'd be like to Mamoru, "I know you broke up with her but YOU COULD AT LEAST STOP ACTING COLD TO HER!" Plus I'd quickly comfort Usagi instead of kinda watching from the sidelines. (Well Rei got her 2 scenes, but isn't Minako-chan goddess of love?)

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   2nd April 2015, 9:51 pm

1. I was more annoyed at the fact that he said that she was weak considering it was sailor moon that saved him from queen beryl and destroyed her.
2. The second thing was hated the way he used motoki's sister ( don't know her name ) to show usagi that he got a better
3. Lastly no matter how much I hate him for this, I still really like the character development done to him, coz most of the time it looks like mamoru only thinks of usagi as a little girl or something and he seems emotionless like he doesn't get jealous or anything except in the R movie and this shows how much he cares for her even though his being a jerk.
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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   6th April 2015, 2:09 pm

"My other problem with this subplot is that it makes Mamoru look like he doesn't have any trust in Usagi. "

But he doesn't, in fact. It's credible. He has known her for... what, weeks? He knows more about Sailor Moon than her. He respects her as a warrior, he is in love with her, but... trust? For a person that has been alone for all his life, it's an hard thing to believe in.

"Plus he could have been afraid that if he told Usagi the truth, that might have gotten her killed since Usagi would have known that Mamoru still loves her."

Apart from that, the fact is she wouldn't have accepted the separation. That much Mamoru knew about Usagi, that she was a person who refused to give up on love for ANY reason, even in the face of danger.
As soon as she knew about the dream, in fact, she said she didn't care.

Mamoru is not right in his behaviour and this is a good point of this subplot for me. He doesn't know how to deal in a mature way with the situation. He doesn't trust Usagi (well, they have been a couple for too little time) and he struggles with keeping his distance from her. When she keeps appearing in front of him, he, like a child, resorts to little insults at the beginning, at scolding, then at making her think he is in love with someone else.
From all we knew about him outside of his relationship with Usagi, he is a mature person for his age (living alone, being a good student, working to maintain himself). It's just her that makes his immature side come out. It's just her that doesn't make him behave rationally.
In episode 69 he CRIED (a guy crying for lost love in Japan it's a big thing) for not being able to be with her. In my mind, he is angry with her every time she appears in front of him reminding him of what he feels. He knows it's not her fault, but she is still so hopeful and happy to see him, and he just cannot give in for her sake, and it's his burden alone to carry. He chose it this way, of course, and he probably feels justified in his nobility of spirit, but such a thing doesn't warm a lonely person. His solitude it's hard for him, especially because he was giving a very brief taste of what love was like.

So, I loved this subplot for Mamoru exactly because he makes so many mistakes in it. He is shown as more human than ever.

In fact
@Louchan wrote:
none of this stupid drama would have needed to take place beyond simply "what are those visions, and how do we solve this so that we can be together again?".

While it's true, I wouldn't have found it very realistic at this point in their relationship. It would have too 'ideal' - Mamoru would have been shown as the perfect boyfriend and guy, who chose communication first, even if his background says that he didn't grow in a family, didn't confide in friends, and was taciturne at best.
Apart from this, him and Usagi talking it out wouldn't have been interesting for more than 10 minutes.
The breakup was absolutely just for the sake of drama, but for me it worked in making me know more both about Usagi and Mamoru as persons, so I appreciated it for this.
Of course there are a number of other - better - ways to show the character's personalities in a narration, but Sailor Moon first anime was a simple story that often resorted to exaggerations to talk about feelings.
If its characters had been too mature or if the narration had focused more on the psychological aspects and internal pain of the characters... well, it would have been a different story, a completely different Sailor Moon. A drama, probably, and it wasn't supposed to be in the intention of its creators (Sato, Ikuhara and Toei).

Having said that, the resolution of the breakup (episode 77) wasn't satisfying - I still have a hard time understanding why he changed his mind, apparently out of nothing. The plot failed to make us see what was going on in his mind after Usagi confronted him.
And the reason behind the necessity for Usagi and Mamoru to separate is terrible. Not logical at all. The writers could have invented a number of other good reasons for King Endymion's actions.

About him being too cold and cruel, and the girls not helping Usagi enough... I felt that too, but these are attitudes that need context. Japanese people are very private. They don't share much, they suffer alone - and it's supposed to be a good thing not to burden others with one's personal problems.
Things are changing, but the first Sailor Moon anime is from 20 year ago, from a time in which it was the first anime about female warriors. Sentimentality, female friendship, romantic relationships... Sailor Moon set a new tone for talking about these concepts in anime. Before the '90's, girls were supposed to suffer for their love, hope for the best, accept the natural coldness of guys... Like Cinderella, more or less Very Happy Well, even now shoujo mangas center around such things. There are subtle but important differences from the way we westerners would narrate such stories and characters, so... context. It's important to understand a story set in a different society and culture, and to try and make sense of attituted that - to our eyes - appear a little too extreme.
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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   6th April 2015, 4:34 pm

I still never liked it. Then again, he did break up with her because he thought that she'd be in danger if she were around him. Still doesn't excuse it.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup subplot in R   13th April 2015, 6:06 am

@ellephedre wrote:
Mamoru is not right in his behaviour and this is a good point of this subplot for me. He doesn't know how to deal in a mature way with the situation.

@ellephedre wrote:
In episode 69 he CRIED (a guy crying for lost love in Japan it's a big thing) for not being able to be with her. In my mind, he is angry with her every time she appears in front of him reminding him of what he feels. He knows it's not her fault, but she is still so hopeful and happy to see him, and he just cannot give in for her sake, and it's his burden alone to carry. He chose it this way, of course, and he probably feels justified in his nobility of spirit, but such a thing doesn't warm a lonely person. His solitude it's hard for him, especially because he was giving a very brief taste of what love was like.

So, I loved this subplot for Mamoru exactly because he makes so many mistakes in it. He is shown as more human than ever.

and
@ellephedre wrote:
While it's true, I wouldn't have found it very realistic at this point in their relationship. It would have too 'ideal' - Mamoru would have been shown as the perfect boyfriend and guy, who chose communication first, even if his background says that he didn't grow in a family, didn't confide in friends, and was taciturne at best.
ITA. I find it kinda unfair that people find Mamoru's problems with social skills funny or endearing - but condemn him, when they are displayed in serious situations.

@ellephedre wrote:
The breakup was absolutely just for the sake of drama, but for me it worked in making me know more both about Usagi and Mamoru as persons, so I appreciated it for this.
ITA - "for the sake of drama" doesn't have to be inherently bad thing (I guess much depends on one's personal preference for such romance drama plots).



@ellephedre wrote:
Japanese people are very private. They don't share much, they suffer alone - and it's supposed to be a good thing not to burden others with one's personal problems.
ITA - this is also important in judging Usagi's silence in Stars - people not getting that it was meant as
mark of her maturity.

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