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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   20th December 2014, 7:29 pm

Ok I cannot be the only one angry at the lack of blood. I mean really? She just cut Mamoru from pelvis to shoulder and stabbed herself. (Even though the watch would protect the blow from her, there'd still be blood from his wound, maybe a few cuts on her. A watch can only protect so much, that sword is huge.) 

Also this entire Shitennou thing has been bugging me from the beginning. There was never any romance between them and the senshi in the manga. And instead of running right to Usagi's aide, they cry after they get evaporated? When did sailor planet attack have a healing ability? Why didn't they simply turn into stones? What the hell kind of death was that anyway?

Also, Beryl didn't get stabbed, but more or less her necklace broke? She still died, why remove the stabbing? So many unnecessary changes.

At least its fun to see the comments of those who never read the manga. They're all flipping out. XD

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   20th December 2014, 10:12 pm

Reddit User pointing out stuff we missed wrote:
"Mercury/Jupiter saving Furuhata, **Venus** killing Beryl in the past and the present, Jupiter taking the sword and cutting the hair, Endymion *kidnapping* Venus, **the Luna power blast**, the multiple times that the Silver Crystal activates with Usagi's emotions and that this is the first time it is show how intimately the Silver Crystal is connected to Usagi's soul, Luna transporting into the Dark Kingdom and solving how Queen Metalia can be killed, and finally that the Senshi, Sailor Moon and Luna tried EVERYTHING against Metalia before subcombing to her desperate suicide/murder with Endymion."

I mean, wow. I just reread the chapter and there really is a significant amount of content missing. It's amazing how dull the inners are. Can a new fan tell the difference between any of them in this new series personality wise?

If anything, this episode has pretty much placed the entire Sailor Moon community on the same level. Nearly every comment I've read has at least one bad thing to say about this pathetic excuse for an adaptation. I really, truly wished we could have all bonded over Sailor Moon Crystal being great, but it's only come to this. Ah well.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   20th December 2014, 10:16 pm

Oh wow a lot was cut out. My memory of the manga is hazy, but I knew some stuff was missing. I wonder if there is a blog that compares Crystal to the manga. I'm too lazy to reread the first arc and then rewatch the other episodes. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 12:19 am

Well.

I kinda was hoping they'd keep the suicide. The whole point of it was to be like "oh well this is fate so it must be repeated" but then it DOESN'T get repeated because of the deux ex machina Naoko put in the manga (which I think is nice despite it being a glaring plot device. The stones (his generals) protected mamoru and mamoru's watch protected Usagi, so inanimate objects that have lots of significant meaning are protectors to them) and despite it all Usagi still manages to defeat Metallia.

As much as I haven't enjoyed Crystal, kinda don't see why anyone is surprised at how awful this episode was. Its been like this for the past 11 episodes.

The fight against Beryl was lame. It was nice to see them band together to fight her, but seriously, she dies because her necklace gets broken? Just think of it like this, if you have to explain to someone that doesn't know Sailor Moon that the way the main villain is killed is because they break her necklace, that will sound like the most ridiculous thing ever. Venus stabbing her was so much better.

And the lack of action in this show is just... ugh. Why has 2014 continued to ruin my childhood things. ._.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 5:24 am

Yeah, I just reread this arc too. I'm now pretty disappointed. How they didn't have Venus killing Beryl and showcasing her anger. Ugh.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 6:03 am

It was way to rushed. My biggest problem was the beryl fight. It made beryl seem so much weaker then she should have been. I wanted to see Venus pick up that sword so bad. I would have rather them explore her story more and have less stuff added with the  Shitennou. I also feel they really diluted the inners characters over the last episode or two.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 7:24 am

Sailor Rudolph wrote:
Well.

I kinda was hoping they'd keep the suicide. The whole point of it was to be like "oh well this is fate so it must be repeated" but then it DOESN'T get repeated because of the deux ex machina Naoko put in the manga (which I think is nice despite it being a glaring plot device. The stones (his generals) protected mamoru and mamoru's watch protected Usagi, so inanimate objects that have lots of significant meaning are protectors to them) and despite it all Usagi still manages to defeat Metallia.

As much as I haven't enjoyed Crystal, kinda don't see why anyone is surprised at how awful this episode was. Its been like this for the past 11 episodes.

The fight against Beryl was lame. It was nice to see them band together to fight her, but seriously, she dies because her necklace gets broken?  Just think of it like this, if you have to explain to someone that doesn't know Sailor Moon that the way the main villain is killed is because they break her necklace, that will sound like the most ridiculous thing ever.   Venus stabbing her was so much better.

And the lack of action in this show is just... ugh.  Why has 2014 continued to ruin my childhood things. ._.

Hahaha I was hoping Usagi killed herself too. I'm more mad how they handle the fight scenes and killed off the generals.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 8:56 am

Nyota wrote:
((Love the Nostalgia Critic gif, Yunie!))

The scene with Venus stabbing Beryl was the scene I was looking forward to the most for this arc, and they changed it to Moon cutting her necklace. Needless to say, I was quite disappointed. ;_;

This was what bothered me the most. I was looking forward to this the entire arc, and they just decided to cut it out. Also, what happened to Rolling Heart Vibration and Ami and Makoto saving Motoki (he just disappeared here)? This episode was really, really disappointing.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 11:08 am

Can't say I'm surprised by the negative reaction to this episode of Crystal. IMO the first arc had always been the weakest out of all the arcs from the manga because the overall plot wasn't as well developed at this early stage, and while there was a lot of action and drama, character development and at times plot cohesion got kind of sidelined. 

As for the suicide thing, I'm surprised Toei decided to keep it. In Japan people's cultural attitude towards suicide is different from Western culture (i.e. seppuku), though in recent decades the idea of suicide prevention has become more widespread, as Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the developed world. Since Crystal is geared towards fans who've grown up watching/reading Sailor Moon, maybe the push for faithfulness to the manga trumped cutting that scene?

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 11:18 am

I've said all along, I feel like there's something missing in this adaptation of it. Whether it be the scarce quantity of dialogue or the way it seems rushed. But you can't deny how beautifully done it is and how it has lightened up our love for SM even more. But I do wish there was more to it.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 11:31 am

Crystal doesn't look beautiful to me at all. The backgrounds look nice and that's about it.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 11:34 am

To each their own. I personally enjoy the manga over Crystal and the anime.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 11:54 am

While I haven't been LOVING crystal, I still quite enjoy it. I guess I'm not too critical though because while I agree with most of what was said here, the changes or missing parts have never been enough for my to get upset about. I love the manga, and I'm happy happy they are making crystal follow it more closely, but I can also understand the struggles of making a manga into an anime, trying to make it appealing to fans all over the world, and all that. They could do better yeah, but meh. Oh well, its good enough for me.

As for this episode specifically, as said above I enjoyed it. I really liked seeing beryl when she was watching endymion and serenity - I love the idea thats shes only really evil because her heart was broken and she was overcome with jealousy, instead of just 'being evil' like in the 90s anime. The generals, I love the senshi x general pairing, so I don't mind the changes too much, though I agree it has been kinda awkward that the senshi seem more attached to them then usagi at times, which shouldn't be the case.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 12:01 pm

@Miss Pallas wrote:
To each their own. I personally enjoy the manga over Crystal and the anime.

The artwork is pretty in the manga. However it does not translate well into animation. But that's my opinon.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 12:55 pm

^I't really doesn't. Their movements just don't flow as smoothly as they did in the classic anime, but that might be more of the fault of the animation team and their timing/budget, not the character design. I have seen worse proportioned anime characters with more smooth movements then this.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 2:04 pm

@Cosmos-Hime wrote:
Ok I cannot be the only one angry at the lack of blood. I mean really? She just cut Mamoru from pelvis to shoulder and stabbed herself.

Also this entire Shitennou thing has been bugging me from the beginning. There was never any romance between them and the senshi in the manga. And instead of running right to Usagi's aide, they cry after they get evaporated? When did sailor planet attack have a healing ability? Why didn't they simply turn into stones? What the hell kind of death was that anyway?

Also, Beryl didn't get stabbed, but more or less her necklace broke? She still died, why remove the stabbing? So many unnecessary changes.
 
I feel they executed the scene very strangely, especially the part where right after she stabs him and leans in to kiss him, its as if he's trying to kiss her too. It was something about the timing of when his eyes closed.

I personally like the idea of the shitennou romance with the senshi. Though I know this is not something that actually happens in the manga, there's a drawing Naoko made of the senshi and shitennou posed romantically with each other that I really like, and I'm happy that this idea is being explored. It's kind of like the Evangelion manga series that was based off the alternate world episode. I do find it odd the way that their memories come back to them.

Yeah.....the whole Beryl thing was really weird too. :/ I feel like the fight with her should've been a lot harder.


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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 2:06 pm

Yamichan16 wrote:
Oh wow a lot was cut out. My memory of the manga is hazy, but I knew some stuff was missing. I wonder if there is a blog that compares Crystal to the manga. I'm too lazy to reread the first arc and then rewatch the other episodes. Razz
 I don't know, but there's a tumblr or something dedicated to all the derpy artwork from the earlier episodes LOL.
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 2:10 pm

@Rabbit-King wrote:
I wanted to see Venus pick up that sword so bad.
I came across this scene while looking up Sailor Moon images a while back. Although it might've been her stabbing Beryl in the past on the moon kingdom. Either way...I really wanted to see Venus stab her, too.
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 2:14 pm

@whitehexe wrote:
I really liked seeing beryl when she was watching endymion and serenity - I love the idea thats shes only really evil because her heart was broken and she was overcome with jealousy, instead of just 'being evil' like in the 90s anime.

I think this makes Beryl more likeable because anyone could related to her heartbreak. I find it interesting in any series to see what drove a character to become villainous, what their past experiences were.
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 2:36 pm

The musicals explore Beryl's character better. I believe in one musical her and Pluto sing a duet together for their love Endymion.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 2:52 pm

Hey everyone, just a reminder from your friendly neighborhood moderator!

We all have our thoughts and opinions about Crystal good or bad. So be mindful of what words you choose to describe your opinion. Just remember to follow the golden rule and be respectful of others and their thoughts on Crystal too. You can post negative opinions as long as you keep it civil.

No one has done anything wrong in this thread but we (the staff) wanted to post a reminder as we know this episode was upsetting to many fans in the community.

Thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 3:46 pm

@justicemoon wrote:
@whitehexe wrote:
I really liked seeing beryl when she was watching endymion and serenity - I love the idea thats shes only really evil because her heart was broken and she was overcome with jealousy, instead of just 'being evil' like in the 90s anime.

I think this makes Beryl more likeable because anyone could related to her heartbreak. I find it interesting in any series to see what drove a character to become villainous, what their past experiences were.

I agree, I'm glad they did keep that little scene in Crystal. I wish they had done more of her past...it was never really explained who she was other than someone who loved Endymion and Metallia used her jealously to turn her. In Myu canon, Beryl is actually engaged to Endymion and it is suggested Serenity stole Endymion away from her (Usagi is horrified when she remembers (because of the way the musicals work, its suggested Usagi didn't fully have her past memories) and apologizes for her past self).

Oh and small note, Justicemoon, you can use the multiquote function to reply to several people in one post, that way you aren't having to make several posts at once. Just go through and hit "Multi-quote" which is next to "quote" on allthe posts you want to respond to, then scroll to the bottom of the thread and hit "new reply" and bam! They are all there foryour replying goodness. ^_^

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 4:07 pm

Yamichan16 wrote:
The musicals explore Beryl's character better. I believe in one musical her and Pluto sing a duet together for their love Endymion.
Woah, this sounds incredible! I hope I can find it!

Sailor Rudolph wrote:
Oh and small note, Justicemoon, you can use the multiquote function to reply to several people in one post, that way you aren't having to make several posts at once.  Just go through and hit "Multi-quote" which is next to "quote" on allthe posts you want to respond to, then scroll to the bottom of the thread and hit "new reply" and bam! They are all there foryour replying goodness. ^_^
Thank you SO much! I felt kind of bad about that and I couldn't figure out how the multi-quote function worked! Seriously, super thank you!
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 4:32 pm

No prob! And if you need musical help, pop on over to the Sera Myu section and us Myu fanatics can help you out. xD

*coughs* and I'm done derailing this thread to Myu. >.> sorry guys.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 7:54 pm

I am in a love-hate relationship with sailor moon crystal. I hope they don't change too much for the finale.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   21st December 2014, 11:38 pm

All I can say is, I hope they spend a little more time and effort on the next arc.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   22nd December 2014, 4:18 am

What bothered me most about this episode is how much of a 180 it's done since the very beginning.  The opening credits no longer make any sense in relation to the actual characterization we've seen.  On top of Usagi saying she won't be a tragic princess anymore.  It's like we saw her get stronger and more determined and then just completely fell apart when she lost Endymion.  Which would've made more sense if we had a bit more development of their relationship, they've had a few conversations and fought one or two battles.  (And even at that paltry amount, it's better than the first season of the 90s version, he was such a jerk!)

I really liked seeing the senshi come together to actually develop a plan to defeat Beryl, but then it boiled down to using that HUGE SWORD to stab her necklace? C'mooon.  I never finished the manga but from what I've read here, it was handled much better in the original.

As for the senshi/shitennou romance. Eh. It's tepid for me. We haven't seen nearly enough actual development for each of the girls much less between them and the guys.  As much as I hated the filler of the 90s, at least we had a reason to believe in the bond between the girls when it came to things getting real.

I'm tossed, really. I'm going to keep watching it. But some of the inbetween fight scenes were a lot better than these final fights.  Also, if Metalia was strong enough to laser-beam the shitennou ALL AT ONCE, why didn't she do that ages ago with the scouts?  On one hand I want to say Endymion's presence makes her stronger...? But she obviously doesn't have access to the piece of the crystal in him so, even that theory doesn't really work.
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   22nd December 2014, 8:00 am

Sailor Rudolph wrote:
As much as I haven't enjoyed Crystal, kinda don't see why anyone is surprised at how awful this episode was. Its been like this for the past 11 episodes.
I've known it's been like this since Episode 2. Honestly though, I can't blame Crystal fans for thoroughly enjoying it up until this point. Many fans aren't interested in criticism or media literacy, especially when it comes to something as intimate as Sailor Moon. I like to call it "movie theater goer" mentality, where people go to see a movie just for escapism. Unless it's absolutely terrible, they don't really care about the quality of what they're watching.

As I said before, I hated for them to find out this way. I would have loved for us all to come together on how amazing the series was. Ah well.

@mangaka-chan wrote:
As for the suicide thing, I'm surprised Toei decided to keep it. In Japan people's cultural attitude towards suicide is different from Western culture (i.e. seppuku), though in recent decades the idea of suicide prevention has become more widespread, as Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the developed world. Since Crystal is geared towards fans who've grown up watching/reading Sailor Moon, maybe the push for faithfulness to the manga trumped cutting that scene?
To be honest, I'm not surprised they kept it, only because it appears Toei wants to achieve all that Sailor Moon fans have dreamed of (more Shitennou inclusion), but don't know how to execute it properly (Death Laser from Orbit). I'm a huge fan of the manga, but her second suicide attempt is my least favorite part of the entire thing. I think would have just been as impactful if, say, Mamoru went to stab her, Sailor Moon allowed herself to be mortally wounded and then she landed the killing blow on him. It would have been just as tragic, if not even more so.

Suicide is a horrible, awful thing. I'm fine with Princess Serenity doing it, but Sailor Moon is a role model. It's a truly bad message to send to a predominately child audienc- Oh wait, the only people likely watching at this point are old fans because there's no way this series could possibly cater to new ones now. Still, I stand by what I say.

@SailorUnicorn wrote:
What bothered me most about this episode is how much of a 180 it's done since the very beginning.  The opening credits no longer make any sense in relation to the actual characterization we've seen.  On top of Usagi saying she won't be a tragic princess anymore.  It's like we saw her get stronger and more determined and then just completely fell apart when she lost Endymion.  Which would've made more sense if we had a bit more development of their relationship, they've had a few conversations and fought one or two battles.
Toei likes to say and not do. "Oh, we loved the Shitennou!" We don't see any concrete moments between them and the senshi. "I love Mamoru!" Why? Why do you love him? Expand upon your thoughts. "We don't need men!" Haha. HAHA. HAHAHAHAHA.

If Toei Animation was a proper studio, they would have went the Live Action show route and expanded the first act to all 26 episodes. Sure, there would have been a lot of filler and original content, but could you imagine a whole 13 episodes devoted to expanding upon things like the relationship between Usagi and Mamoru, the ACTUAL CHARACTERIZATION OF THE INNERS and really, truly expanding on the Shitennou? Queen Beryl has a really interesting backstory. She too was reincarnated into a normal person. Why can't we see any of that?

@SailorUnicorn wrote:
Also, if Metalia was strong enough to laser-beam the shitennou ALL AT ONCE, why didn't she do that ages ago with the scouts?

It would have made for a much better scene if Queen Metalia killed them using the darkness inside of their hearts. It would have made her line make more sense too.

Oh, and Yunie. That Nostalgia Critic gif is perfect.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   22nd December 2014, 12:30 pm

The first act is only 13 episodes? I thought it was going to be 26.... D:
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)   22nd December 2014, 12:35 pm

Nope, the first 13 episodes will cover the first arc, and the second 13 will cover the next arc.

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SMC Episode 12 Discussion (Spoilers)

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