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Sailor CJ
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PostSubject: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   3rd January 2015, 5:10 am

I haven't seen this thread posted so I figured I'd go ahead and do it! I actually woke up early before work so I could check it out, haha.

I'm a little infamous on these forums for having a negative opinion of this series. To not completely throw this thread straight into negativity, I'm going to leave my strong opinions for a future post.

I will say right now that I'm quite surprised that they left the ending to another episode. The Black Moon arc is going to need as much space as it can to tell its rather complicated story. Are you telling me that we're going to have the ending to Dark Kingdom, Chibiusa's introduction and the subplot focusing on Mars all in the next episode? I certainly hope not.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   3rd January 2015, 5:15 am

I thought it was kinda meh. When Usagi and Mamoru kissed i was like "Hello? Queen Metallia is right there, she can kill you!". And what was with the Generals Stones appearing out of nowhere?
I'm glad this episodes Sailor Planet Attack was better. It reminded me of the one in PGSM .

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   3rd January 2015, 6:03 am

LOL @ the stones appearing in Mamoru's pocket... But the scene with the Shitennou was beautiful!
In general, this episode was satisfying. I don't like this part in the manga, so I wasn't expecting much. But I was surprised, since my expectations were so low. I really liked that scene when Sailor Venus holds her arm up high and Moon holds her and her arm becomes the sword. 
I wish they'd just try to toughen Moon up a little. She's way too unconfident in herself after all she's been through.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   3rd January 2015, 6:08 am

@Sailor CJ wrote:
Are you telling me that we're going to have the ending to Dark Kingdom, Chibiusa's introduction and the subplot focusing on Mars all in the next episode? I certainly hope not.

No, Mars' subplot is going to be in act 15, according to the manga.

Hello everyone, I've been reading your opinions for some time Smile I'm Elle, from Italy.

My opinion of act 13... it contains the spirit of the whole story, in my mind.
Love beats friendship.
While the scenes of the girls remembering the strenght Usagi gave them were nice - and reminiscent of the Promise of the Rose movie, by the way -  in the end the attack in which the Senshi put all their strenght into was only useful to wake Usagi up - so that she could meet Mamoru (that was her big scene in this episode) and then proceed to beat the enemy just with his help.
And the Shitennou - the counterpart to Sailor Moon’s Senshi for Mamoru. They intervened to tell him how to beat Metallia and then disapperead wishing him the best. Mamoru aknowledges that they saved him in the past, and then again in the present, but when they disappears he feels next to nothing, like they had done just what they had to - save him. ‘Thanks, now I’m going back to Serenity’.
It’s obviously not like that for him in the story - he didn’t even know them in the present and in that precise moment Mamoru had others issues in mind - but still, that was the message of the story: the Shitennou’s whole existence served only to protect Mamoru and die for him and his happiness. They didn’t deserve anything of their own.

In the manga there was the sensation that many things were left unsaid about the Shitennou and their backstory. One also had the impression that the girls had a life and feelings outside Usagi and her destiny.
In Crystal everything revolves around this supposedly epic love story of her and Mamoru. Everyone’s existence and actions have only the purpose to make this relationship happen.
And who cares about what happens to the secundary characters. Let’s just mention they had a love story in the past but tragically they can’t have it now in the present. Doesn’t matter, they too know that only the protagonists’ happiness is important.
Sigh.
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   3rd January 2015, 6:20 am

@ellephedre wrote:
@Sailor CJ wrote:
Are you telling me that we're going to have the ending to Dark Kingdom, Chibiusa's introduction and the subplot focusing on Mars all in the next episode? I certainly hope not.

In Crystal everything revolves around this supposedly epic love story of her and Mamoru. Everyone’s existence and actions have only the purpose to make this relationship happen.
^THIS is exactly how i'm feeling about Crystal at the moment

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   3rd January 2015, 7:09 am

I looked back at this act in the manga. It followed it pretty close, but there were a few changes. They cut out the flash back to the moon kingdom. Venus telling Serenity not sneak off anymore and Serenity teasing her that she has never been in love. Then it fast forward to Earth and we see Venus blushing at Kunzite. RWAR!! Why did they take that out! 

The senshi remembering Usagi made me think of the R movie. It's better in the R movie...

Also it was silly in the manga and it's still silly in Crystal. How can a tiny watch and tiny stones protect you from a sword attack? I guess magic, but it's still silly. Razz

It's eh episode for me. If anything it made me laugh. Now I have to watch episode 14. ;-;

ALSO:



Someone has been in the princess's closet.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   3rd January 2015, 7:15 am

Queen Serenity! Stay out of your daughters closet! Haven't you got enough clothes?

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   3rd January 2015, 8:27 am

I have mixed feelings again, but it was better than Act 12 for sure.

Positives:
- Having Usagi unconscious and healing throughout the first half was nice, because we finally got to see the other senshi shine a little. They are all quite capable, and having them speak partial sentences in turns was a nice throwback to the original anime.
- Queen Metalia actually seemed like a formidable energy. Sailor Moon has always used the Talking is a Free Action trope, so I'm not surprised at all the moments of characters having emotional scenes while she is right there wasn't hard to believe for me.
- The Luna and Artemis scenes were a nice touch. I've never felt myself caring for Luna so much as I have in Crystal + Nice little flashback with Queen Serenity
- Sailor Planet Attack and teleportations were really cool!

Neutral:
- Usagi crying while inside of Metalia. I can't decide if it's in character for her or if she should be braver than that at this point.

Negative:
- Why the heck did they just leave the sword lying there in the Dark Kingdom palace? That was really weird.
- When Usagi was blasting Metalia, I was hoping they would deviate slightly and have the spirits of the senshi help give her power. I know that the actual defeat of Metalia happens in the next chapter, but it would be a nice touch that would blend Manga and Anime ideas.
- No emotional impact with the Shitennou at all. They really dropped the ball on those characters with this adaptation and probably should've just had them die with each battle as in the manga.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   3rd January 2015, 8:33 am

I keep forgetting I watched this earlier and I don't think that's supposed to happen.

I really didn't like the senshi saying all the same things/completing each other's sentences though because it just enforces the whole hive mind problem. If they all think the same way, why are there even four of them? How do they figure out about the sacrifice at precisely the same time in precisely the same way? In the manga it was Venus taking the charge, being the leader, telling them there is a way to save Usagi. And then they all had to say they were prepared for it.. it was a powerful moment there.

It was okay, I guess. I kind of felt a bit of what I liked in the manga with Mamoru supporting Usagi - I've always preferred him in that supportive role but too much emphasis has already put on him already, so i'm not sure it really works. I also hope we get to see him using his power/bond with the earth like we saw in the manga.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   3rd January 2015, 8:52 am

just finished this episode. It was alright, I agree with Mercury, I loved seeing Mamoru supporting Usagi I am a bit confused with how the generals came back, but I actually kind of liked their last moments with Endymion.

I do not like that they are dragging this out until the next episode. why can't metalia be defeated already, but hey it will happen. 

I also loved the Serenity and Endymion moments and was glad Mamoru is back to normal. I have really grown to love his seiyuu.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   3rd January 2015, 9:57 am

They removed key elements again! Usagi wasn't supposed to be crying the whole time, she was supposed to pray for the arc of sealing. That is what ticks me off the most. She was strong and angry that metallia killed everyone off, not crying and shutting her eyes to the battle. They had a perfectly good chance to redeem themselves and they shot it down.

Even luna was supposed to have a bigger role. And the gems weren't supposed to break? At least they kept the other senshi throwing their pens.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   3rd January 2015, 11:30 am

Anyone says this is "very close" to the manga after this point needs a refresher. Doing a chapter re-read after each episode has shown how much they're deviating. I don't get the "it's a frame by frame" adaptation either. So much key things have changed. 

Usagi is not Usagi anymore, and she can't do anything without Mamoru; not in the sense that they used each other's strength together, but that she'll literally cry and do nothing until he prompts her. I get it, she's 14, but even in the manga she'd matured by this point. She doesn't seem to care about her friends. She runs from them and leaves them to battle any almost every episode, and all she can focus on is Mamoru's heat. That is not Usagi. 

The other senshi are all one person at this point. They do everything and think everything the same despite their supposed strengths in battle. They aren't our senshi anymore. Their whole point is to cheer on the Miracle Romance that has become almost monster-like at this point. Yes, it was the focus early on in the manga, but this show has become almost fanfiction. You know, the type where everyone only does or thinks about things for the protagonist. They don't serve any purpose beyond bolstering the person of interest and fade into obscurity when they aren't needed anymore. Kinda like how everyone loves and worships Bella Swan (best example I could think of lol).

I don't see how this is aimed at old fans/adult women at this point. Maybe I'm missing something cultural, but this seriously is how a young girl/teenager would think romance is. 

Also the animation. How hard is it to animate spinning a wand/stick? There was literally 2 frames repeated over and over. This isn't animation. This is a motion comic at this point. 

I keep saying it every episode, but I just can't anymore. If you love the show, that's great! There's nothing wrong with it. But for the love of God, some of the people on Tumblr need to take a chill pill and accept that a lot of people don't like it.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   3rd January 2015, 2:44 pm

IT'S TIIIIIIME FOR SAILOR CJ'S NEGATIVE REVIEW. BRACE YOURSELVES.

I'm with innocentvenus on this one. It's officially deviated too much from the manga. In fact, I've figured out exactly what Sailor Moon Crystal reminds me of.

Sailor Moon Crystal is what everyone else thinks Sailor Moon is.

SMC is Sailor Moon from an outsider's perspective. It's a pointless, poorly animated story about a preteen who fights crime. Her relationships are dull and her team is essentially the same character, just differently color coded.

It's embarrassing to be a Sailor Moon fan these days when many of the fan community is trying to defend this garbage. Don't get me wrong. I don't judge those who like Sailor Moon Crystal, but I will not stand for someone telling me that it's Toei's godly gift to us feeble fans.

I wanted a version that would expand upon the first season of the manga and give us an updated version of the manga, not one that feels like even more aged than its source material. I looks like I'm really going to have to sit down and watch PGSM to get the version I want. Sigh...

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   3rd January 2015, 2:52 pm

watch PGSM!!! It's soooo good. The fighting is cheesy, but the writing is good. It focuses on the girls relationship with each other and their lives. Plus the generals play a bigger role.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   3rd January 2015, 3:35 pm

Yeah, I'm officially done with Crystal at this point. I guess they believe the sole reason why people like SM is because of Usamamo? Because it's constantly getting shoved in our faces to the point that it's unbearable. They clearly don't think about the consequences of their writing in case they do the other arcs either. Mamoru uses the stones again in SuperS (I think) so what purpose did the stones even have in breaking? What purpose did the Shitennou even serve? They were as boring and generic as a box of off-brand Cheez-its. They did nothing to impact the story or the Senshi's character development and were honestly just a waste of space. 

Also the holy sword could crack a diamond with just a gentle touch yet now it can't even break through a pocket watch? What stopped it? The power of love?

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   3rd January 2015, 8:12 pm

@Goddess Yami wrote:
watch PGSM!!! It's soooo good. The fighting is cheesy, but the writing is good. It focuses on the girls relationship with each other and their lives. Plus the generals play a bigger role.

PGSM is amazing!!!!!! Rei and Minako are just so 

I'm trying to get them on DVD (I had bootlegs before).

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   3rd January 2015, 11:39 pm

@innocentvenus wrote:
Anyone says this is "very close" to the manga after this point needs a refresher. Doing a chapter re-read after each episode has shown how much they're deviating. I don't get the "it's a frame by frame" adaptation either. So much key things have changed. 

Usagi is not Usagi anymore, and she can't do anything without Mamoru; not in the sense that they used each other's strength together, but that she'll literally cry and do nothing until he prompts her. I get it, she's 14, but even in the manga she'd matured by this point. She doesn't seem to care about her friends. She runs from them and leaves them to battle any almost every episode, and all she can focus on is Mamoru's heat. That is not Usagi. 

The other senshi are all one person at this point. They do everything and think everything the same despite their supposed strengths in battle. They aren't our senshi anymore. Their whole point is to cheer on the Miracle Romance that has become almost monster-like at this point. Yes, it was the focus early on in the manga, but this show has become almost fanfiction. You know, the type where everyone only does or thinks about things for the protagonist. They don't serve any purpose beyond bolstering the person of interest and fade into obscurity when they aren't needed anymore. Kinda like how everyone loves and worships Bella Swan (best example I could think of lol).

I don't see how this is aimed at old fans/adult women at this point. Maybe I'm missing something cultural, but this seriously is how a young girl/teenager would think romance is. 

Also the animation. How hard is it to animate spinning a wand/stick? There was literally 2 frames repeated over and over. This isn't animation. This is a motion comic at this point. 

I keep saying it every episode, but I just can't anymore. If you love the show, that's great! There's nothing wrong with it. But for the love of God, some of the people on Tumblr need to take a chill pill and accept that a lot of people don't like it.
Funny, it used to be people on tumblr bashing fans of Crystal but now it's the other way around?

Anyway, i'm at the point where i can't defend Crystal anymore.If you ask me, the last good episode we had was episode 8 (and that was only because of Venus' amazing amazingness) then everything went downhill fast. Usagi is not Usagi,nor Sailor Moon, nor even Princess Serenity. I say she's not Princess Serenity anymore because in the manga she was playful and stuck her tongue out at Venus but in Crystal they've royally screwed up  her character and she can't do anything without Mamoru. And since everyone basically exists just to support Usagi/Mamoru, Crystal has become un-watchable. The only reason i'm still watching it is because of the promise of the Black Moon arc and Act/Episode 21. If they screw up the BM arc, i am done with Crystal

Also, about the shoddy animation with the spinning scepter there is no excuse for that. In the first episode of Winx Club Stella spun her scepter and it looked better than this! (especially since Winx Club probably had an even lower budget than Sailor Moon Crystal)

(I tried my hardest to gif the scene)

Since everyone probably gets by now that i despise the Miracle Romance, i'm really over Crystal constantly shoving it in my face. It's funny how my opinion of Crystal changed so quickly just because of 3 episodes

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   4th January 2015, 9:36 am

I am annoyed that +20 years later, Toei still can't handle Queen Serenity. In the '90s anime, her first appearance was blonde and then they corrected it when they showed the character full-body. In the Crystal opening credits she was blonde until they corrected it for the DVD. And now... she's silver-haired Princess Serenity with the Queen's voice. I wanted the silver-haired Princess Serenity passionately and even after we saw some images of her I still hoped they'd correct it. But that doesn't mean I want them to eff up the Queen again! Angry


Anyway. Other than that little slip I actually loved this episode. The thing is... it's all super cheesy and girly and cliche and silly. And the girls have little of their own personality and Usagi is the type of girl who's annoyingly obsessed with her boyfriend. But I expected all of these to happen because I knew that's what the manga was like. And now just wait until the Black Moon arc when
spoiler:
 

To be honest, I read the manga twice and I still can't get things from it right. I liked it enough while reading but over the years it proved to be un-memorable to me. Some of Naoko's original intentions for the characters were nice and personally I like the manga (and Crystal!) Mamoru so much better than the old anime Mamoru, for example. Sure, he's a cheese-ball and a wimp, but at least he seems involved with Usagi, whereas in the '90s anime he felt more like the adult in charge of her than her lover. But compared to the manga, the old anime had a better grasp of the character development, the plot/rhythm thing, and it better controlled dramatic scenes.

So... yeah. I didn't expect a masterpiece because the manga wasn't a masterpiece. People were just super in love with it up 'till now because it's the source material and the later arcs make better sense. But it has many flaws and it's only now that everyone hates Crystal, that these flaws have become very obvious.

And please stop saying it's not an accurate manga adaptation. The changes are very small, compared to most manga-anime translations out there. Crystal is pretty much a panel-by-panel manga animation, with a few scenes/lines taken out and a few scenes/lines inserted into the episodes. So they changed Beryl being killed by the sword with Beryl being killed by ruining her necklace... Big deal! It seems like a super-big change now because you knew exactly what was supposed to happen and you dearly wanted it to happen, but for an outsider the difference between the two actions is laughable. They just wanted to give something more to Usagi, that's all. She IS the protagonist, after all, and having one of her friends suddenly kill the second to last big boss was... well, kinda random. As for Usagi not being "herself"... Usagi is a little bit different in the manga, the old anime, and Crystal. She's never "one" specific character that you can say is not well represented. Yes, she cares more about Mamoru in Crystal than she does about her friends. Arguably in the manga, as well. No, old anime Usagi would never behave that way. But THAT'S why the old anime was so much better than the manga and what we're getting now. Usagi was selfless and pure. In the manga she just decides to kill herself and leave her friends, family and PLANET to fend for themselves. Manga and Crystal Usagi is immature and selfish at this point.

As for me... I started off with low expectations and I like what I got. Episode 12 was indeed a disaster (mainly because it's obvious Toei didn't know what to do with the Shitennou once they'd kept them around for so long; and because they took an animation shortcut and gave the girls crying on/off buttons). But I feel like episode 13 had great pacing, some awesome drama (backed up by the genius music - I LOVE Crystal music, whereas I barely even tolerated the '90s music... so shoot me), and at times it even had some nice imagery.

Yes, after the Shitennou died they magically transported into Mamoru's shirt, to block out the sword's impact. Yes, that sword that could destroy a diamond earlier got blocked by a pocket-watch. This is Sailor Moon. Sailor Moon does not make sense and it ALWAYS, always has cheesy Deus Ex Machinas. And it always had these puke-y "friendship" monologues where the girls would say "Usagi-chan" dramatically over and over again. It may be annoying now because in our heads they've known each other for a very little time but... this is "Sailor Moon". "Sailor Moon" is a lot like "Naruto" in this lovey-dovey cheesy way. Everyone pretends to have great connections to the other character and they whisper each other's name over and over and over and OVER again.

I dunno. I just perceive all of the Crystal "Dark Kingdom" arc as something to watch in one sitting. A big long movie that tries to tell the entire first story in its short time limit. It's even got the classic "acts" - right now we're at the end of the "climax" and next episode we get the "denouement". Would I have preferred they took more time and made the whole 26 episodes one arc? Duh. But I still like what we got and I think it covers a lot more material than say... an actual MOVIE would've.

And sorry for the wall of text. I started out by wanting to say "I hate what they did to the Queen but I loved the episode" and then I just forgot to shut up Razz

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   4th January 2015, 9:46 am

I just want to point out that there is nothing wrong with loving crystal. If you're able to enjoy it, that's great! I just wish I could.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   4th January 2015, 9:59 am

@Child

While Usagi is the main protagonist it made sense for Venus to kill Beryl in the manga. She is the leader of the senshi. If I remember correctly she is wielder of that sword. It's like in Harry Potter while Harry is the main protagonist the other characters were able to contribute to the plot. They were able to have their moments and help in the battles against Voldemort.   

I don't know this episode was just weird to me. Just a meh and nothing else.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   4th January 2015, 10:08 am

@Goddess Yami wrote:
@Child

While Usagi is the main protagonist it made sense for Venus to kill Beryl in the manga. She is the leader of the senshi. If I remember correctly she is wielder of that sword. It's like in Harry Potter while Harry is the main protagonist the other characters were able to contribute to the plot. They were able to have their moments and help in the battles against Voldemort.   

I don't know this episode was just weird to me. Just a meh and nothing else.
Plus didn't Venus kill Beryl in the Silver Mil.? That was also why killing her in the present was significant because it's like the past is repeating itself. Either way it was wrong for them to take that moment from Minako and I'm sorry but there aren't excuses for it. Usagi kills the big bad, Metallia, so it wasn't like she was weak in the first place. 

Plus the whole 'It's okay to love Crystal!' point goes both ways. It's okay to love it but it's also okay to think it's a bad adaption of the manga. Just respect other's opinions.  Wink

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   4th January 2015, 10:10 am

^ Since you mentioned Harry Potter... The other characters don't actually wound the MAIN baddies. They help out with tasks and maybe take out or immobilize small villains (which in the Sailor Moon world would translate to people like the Shitennou and later the Amazon Trio, etc), but nobody other than Harry ever stuck a sword in Voldemort or harmed Bellatrix, right to the very end. Hermione was the brains / strategist, much like Mercury. Ron was the "heart" of the group... I have no idea who that would be in SM but yeah Smile). Harry was the one who defeated Quirrel, then the basilisk and Tom Riddle, who passed the Goblet of Fire tasks and then faced Voldemort again... and then acts as the main tool in the final battle at Hogwarts, even though around him and Voldy are a ton of adults and his friends and the brave "Dumbledore's Army"

And I think it's still very clear that Venus is the leader. She's always the one with the initiative - and probably the only Inner who so far has an inkling of personality / importance.

I dunno, personally it doesn't bother me at all that they gave that moment to Usagi. I would've preferred if she had stabbed Beryl instead of destroying her necklace, but I guess they wanted to give her something closer to a "Disney Death".

EDIT: Would any of the Silver Millennium stuff have any influence on the Crystal ending, when those scenes didn't make it into the previous episodes? (I won't pretend to know if Venus killing Beryl in Silver Millennium was in the manga or not, because as I said, the manga has an odd way of not sticking into my memory for long). And besides, the old anime did pretty much the same thing. The only one who could ever defeat an enemy was Usagi. The others were just... there. Being badass, but ultimately not very useful. So... not that shocking.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   4th January 2015, 10:30 am

Yes, but Harry's friends weren't useless. 

Answer to your question. Probably. They had things that happened in Crystal, but had no explanation where it was explained in the manga. Like Endo playing the V game. In Crystal they didn't explain why he kept playing it. While in the manga Minako was adding more levels so he couldn't get to the hide out.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   4th January 2015, 10:30 am

Childlike Empress wrote:

And please stop saying it's not an accurate manga adaptation even when compared to other shows adaptions. Did they change major plot points in Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood? No. You would have heard much raging if they did like people are with Crystal. The changes are very small, compared to most manga-anime translations out there. Crystal is pretty much a panel-by-panel manga animation, with a few scenes/lines taken out and a few scenes/lines inserted into the episodes. So they changed Beryl being killed by the sword with Beryl being killed by ruining her necklace... Big deal! It seems like a super-big change now because you knew exactly what was supposed to happen and you dearly wanted it to happen, but for an outsider the difference between the two actions is laughable. They just wanted to give something more to Usagi, that's all. She IS the protagonist, after all, and having one of her friends suddenly kill the second to last big boss was... well, kinda random. As for Usagi not being "herself"... Usagi is a little bit different in the manga, the old anime, and Crystal. She's never "one" specific character that you can say is not well represented. Yes, she cares more about Mamoru in Crystal than she does about her friends. Arguably in the manga, as well. No, old anime Usagi would never behave that way. But THAT'S why the old anime was so much better than the manga and what we're getting now. Usagi was selfless and pure. In the manga she just decides to kill herself and leave her friends, family and PLANET to fend for themselves. Manga and Crystal Usagi is immature and selfish at this point
 
Then it's not an accurate manga adaptation, nor is it panel-by-panel when they changed stuff that is major to the plot. Changing Venus killing Beryl to Sailor Moon smashing her necklace is not accurate in any sense and it takes away from Venus by giving her moment to Sailor Moon. Then they change the way Moon even fights Metalia and how the crystal becomes complete. These are not small things they changed. They are major plot points.  An outsider wouldn't know the difference, but remember, this wasn't made with the intention of showing it to new fans. It would have ended up on TV then. This was made with the intention of celebrating the 20th (forever! lol) with fans who grew up with both the anime and manga from the 90's. They've told us that time and time again. It is not faithful to the source when such major things are changed, nor when the other senshi are forgotten and hive-minded with the intent of selling us a romance we all know about and cared about before. 

Manga vs Crystal:
 


Yes, Sailor Moon is the main protagonist, but she is on a team. What's the point of having a team centric show where only of the characters is useful and the rest get knocked out on the ground every single episode? 

As for Usagi herself, she is immature to a point in the manga, but she does not:

  • Leave the command center because they all think Tuxedo Mask is against them and call them stupid.
  • Pass out to be saved by Tuxedo Mask and then worry more about whether or not he knows she's Sailor Moon (which he does at this point and she knew it), than transform and save her friends while watching them battle.
  • Cry nearly the entire final battle and only become able to do something only after Tuxedo Mask tells her to do something. He also doesn't stop Metalia from attacking them while she's passed out. 
  • Only remember her friends at the very last second, and then proceed to forget about them again when it's time for her to have her moment with Mamoru. 
  • Everything is Mamoru in Crystal. Everything!


Manga vs Crystal:
 

The show could work if it had been presented as a re-imagining, kinda like how PGSM added things without losing what we loved about the show and the girls.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   4th January 2015, 10:34 am

Childlike Empress wrote:
^ Since you mentioned Harry Potter... The other characters don't actually wound the MAIN baddies. They help out with tasks and maybe take out or immobilize small villains (which in the Sailor Moon world would translate to people like the Shitennou and later the Amazon Trio, etc), but nobody other than Harry ever stuck a sword in Voldemort or harmed Bellatrix, right to the very end. Hermione was the brains / strategist, much like Mercury. Ron was the "heart" of the group... I have no idea who that would be in SM but yeah Smile). Harry was the one who defeated Quirrel, then the basilisk and Tom Riddle, who passed the Goblet of Fire tasks and then faced Voldemort again... and then acts as the main tool in the final battle at Hogwarts, even though around him and Voldy are a ton of adults and his friends and the brave "Dumbledore's Army"

Actually, Molly Weasly killed Bellatrix after Luna, Ginny, and Hermione took her on. Neville took out Nigini the Horcrux. Ron and Hermione braved the chamber of secrets to destroy the cup horcrux. Ron saved a drowning Harry and was able to use the Sword of Griffindor to destroy the locket Horcrux. The teachers and adults and students of Hogwarts took on a giantic army to give Harry time to finish the task given to him by Dumbledore. That's just in the last book.

Compare all that to what the girls do in Crystal.

Everyone had very important things that helped Harry, and yes, Harry did the final defeat of Voldemort, but please don't say they didn't actually wound the main baddies or equate them to doing nothing important.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   4th January 2015, 10:48 am

@innocentvenus wrote:
Childlike Empress wrote:
^ Since you mentioned Harry Potter... The other characters don't actually wound the MAIN baddies. They help out with tasks and maybe take out or immobilize small villains (which in the Sailor Moon world would translate to people like the Shitennou and later the Amazon Trio, etc), but nobody other than Harry ever stuck a sword in Voldemort or harmed Bellatrix, right to the very end. Hermione was the brains / strategist, much like Mercury. Ron was the "heart" of the group... I have no idea who that would be in SM but yeah Smile). Harry was the one who defeated Quirrel, then the basilisk and Tom Riddle, who passed the Goblet of Fire tasks and then faced Voldemort again... and then acts as the main tool in the final battle at Hogwarts, even though around him and Voldy are a ton of adults and his friends and the brave "Dumbledore's Army"

Actually, Molly Weasly killed Bellatrix after Luna, Ginny, and Hermione took her on. Neville took out Nigini the Horcrux. Ron and Hermione braved the chamber of secrets to destroy the cup horcrux. Ron saved a drowning Harry and was able to use the Sword of Griffindor to destroy the locket Horcrux. The teachers and adults and students of Hogwarts took on a giantic army to give Harry time to finish the task given to him by Dumbledore. That's just in the last book.

Compare all that to what the girls do in Crystal.

Everyone had very important things that helped Harry, and yes, Harry did the final defeat of Voldemort, but please don't say they didn't actually wound the main baddies or equate them to doing nothing important.

For one thing, Molly Weasley wasn't one of Harry's close friends. The close friends couldn't kill Bellatrix even after she victimized Hermione earlier in the book. To say that Molly killed Bellatrix is more the equivalent of an entity outside of Usagi's senshi popping in and killing Beryl. You're right about Neville and Nagini but Ron and Hermione going into the Chamber was more of a task than defeating any major baddie. As was Ron saving Harry and using the Sword of Gryffindor. These are all "tasks" more than defeats, and I did say that the friends completed "tasks" (but that's about it). That's been going on since book 1 when Hermione got them out of the snares and completed the potion challenge, and Ron sacrificed his chess piece to get Harry through that door. 

As for adults and their army... Yes, they were battling an army of mostly faceless individuals that were in no case big baddies like Beryl. It was Harry who saved the day.

And one more thing: god, I wanna re-read Harry Potter now! 

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   4th January 2015, 11:07 am

Actually... destroying a horcrux equals killing one of Voldemort's lives, so yes. They all had a hand in killing the main bad guy. Harry might've done the biggest sacrifice, but if his friends hadn't destroyed all those other horcruxes then he wouldn't have been able to kill Voldy for good.

Back to Crystal, the problem is those "small changes" they did took away all the good things and all the characterization from the manga. And yes, it DOES make a difference. If someone were to read the manga, they would see the girls having their own personalities, not thinking about Usagi 100% of the time and not amounting to anything much. They'd see Venus being the legitimate leader that she is, they'd see characters, not people with different faces who somehow all act and think the same way the way Crystal portrays them as. The differences may seem little, but take out a dialogue here, a line there, and suddenly you have the girls as emotionless as people with no personality of their own. Those little lines of dialogues matter. Those small panels that they took out matter.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   4th January 2015, 11:10 am

Childlike Empress wrote:
For one thing, Molly Weasley wasn't one of Harry's close friends. 
 
Molly Weasley is Harry's surrogate mother in the series. She is pretty important to Harry, just like his friends.  Angry


Okay, I won't derail this into a Harry Potter thread. xD

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   4th January 2015, 11:23 am

@innocentvenus wrote:
Childlike Empress wrote:
For one thing, Molly Weasley wasn't one of Harry's close friends. 
 
Molly Weasley is Harry's surrogate mother in the series. She is pretty important to Harry, just like his friends.  Angry


Okay, I won't derail this into a Harry Potter thread. xD

By that logic it could very well be Ikuko or Shingo who kills Beryl :bunnypokerface . As for the Horcruxes, they may be super evil and parts of Voldy's lives, but they're still not active big bad villains (apart from Nagini, who is not a "villain" per se, but she is alive).

But yes, I think that's enough Harry Potter for today. The conversation is reaching ultimate levels of geekery Wink

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   4th January 2015, 1:46 pm

As much as I love SMC, this act and the previous one pissed me off. I literally said WTF how it ended. I was getting so pumped!

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