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ellephedre
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:07 pm

Thought it could be interesting. These is data I gathered from NicoNico Japan about Crystal's views over the episodes.

Act 1: 1.130,395 views
Act 2: 454,435 views
Act 3: 390,123 views
Act 4: 339,111 views
Act 5: 291,628 views
Act 6: 237,940 views
Act 7: 217,093 views
Act 8: 241,774 views
Act 9: 199,527 views
Act 10: 198,562 views
Act 11: 150,862 views
Act 12: 146,314 views

The first episode of Crystal - aside from being the first and the most publicized - was online for free a longer period of time. The others were available for everyone to see, outside a premium account, for two weeks only.
So, at equal conditions, a fair comparison can be made between the numbers of act 2 and act 12.
In ten episodes Crystal lost nearly 70% of its views in Japan, on NicoNico.
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:21 pm

Oh my god....those ratings are horrible. 

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:17 pm

Wow. That is absolutely stunning data. Thanks for sharing, ellephedre!

If anything, this likely correlates to the fact that many Sailor Moon fans are getting tired of this crap. Only the devoted ones are sticking to it. (Honestly, I would have left a long time ago if it wasn't for the reviews I write on my website. They're too much fun to avoid.)

I can't help but think this is all a conspiracy by Toei to get us to rebuy the old content. Hell, I'm saving up for season S when it comes out in the States, just to hear a dub that's worthwhile. I'm not condoning Toei's behavior when I say this, but I think that Toei need that some fans would be disappointed in Sailor Moon Crystal no matter what and that some would love it just because it was Sailor Moon. There's nothing wrong with either party but I think they knew they'd get money either way.

Just thirty years until the 50th anniversary... when we'll finally have anime we always dreamed of... /s

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:33 pm

@Sailor CJ wrote:
Just thirty years until the 50th anniversary... when we'll finally have anime we always dreamed of... /s
As long as Toei has the rights to Sailor Moon I wouldn't hold my breath for anything better than Crystal.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:33 pm

Usagi is annoying in Crystal. I have read the manga and watched (almost)every episode of the original anime and i get that she is supposed to be immature and selfish at this point in time but with Crystal Usagi it's "Mamo-chan this" and "Mamo-chan that". I think they need to rename the show to Tuxedo Mask Crystal

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:30 pm

That pretty much correlates to what Japanese fans are saying on twitter and the reviews on Amazon.co.jp. They are not even happy with the price and quality of the bluray sets.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:57 pm

@Goddess Yami wrote:

ALSO:



Someone has been in the princess's closet.



Well...makes sense...

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:45 am

On Queen Serenity... Maybe that's her as a teen. As far as we know Luna and Artimus don't age. I agree this hype to be continued thing is bs. And very aggravating.  The drop in views is amazing and disheartening.

But aside from the dress causing a wtf moment I'm pleased over all.
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:35 am

Yeah I figured that was young Queen Serenity. Though she already has the princess by then so it's a bit confusing. Did you really expect Toei to draw a new dress? LOL.

The thing is they did a great anime the first time around, I don't get why they couldn't be bothered now. Especially when the Moon Pride MV was excellent. Something doesn't add up.

And I'm also surprised Naoko still let TOEI do it when she was largely unsatisfied with the changes the first anime did in the first place.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:37 pm

I think the episode could have been better. Even though the story telling is a bit lazy at times, I think I'm going to watch all of it. 

Though the flashbacks were adorable...did anyone think that Usagi's laughing made her sound like a broken doll in a horror movie? Or is that just me?! 

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:21 pm

ˆNo, her laughing was cute at first but went on just long enough to be strange and forced.

I will say though, I don't critique the animation too much because I've sought out image comparisons with the Blue Ray releases and it looks soooooooo much better. I can't wait for the North American Viz release!

I will join in the critiquing of the lazy storytelling however, all day long.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:24 pm

@ellephedre wrote:
Thought it could be interesting. These is data I gathered from NicoNico Japan about Crystal's views over the episodes.

Act 1: 1.130,395 views
Act 2: 454,435 views
Act 3: 390,123 views
Act 4: 339,111 views
Act 5: 291,628 views
Act 6: 237,940 views
Act 7: 217,093 views
Act 8: 241,774 views
Act 9: 199,527 views
Act 10: 198,562 views
Act 11: 150,862 views
Act 12: 146,314 views

The first episode of Crystal - aside from being the first and the most publicized - was online for free a longer period of time. The others were available for everyone to see, outside a premium account, for two weeks only.
So, at equal conditions, a fair comparison can be made between the numbers of act 2 and act 12.
In ten episodes Crystal lost nearly 70% of its views in Japan, on NicoNico.
^That is really fascinating. I guess a bunch of other fans found it a failed adaptation as well.  It's kind of sad.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:12 pm

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Yeah I figured that was young Queen Serenity. Though she already has the princess by then so it's a bit confusing. Did you really expect Toei to draw a new dress? LOL.

The thing is they did a great anime the first time around, I don't get why they couldn't be bothered now. Especially when the Moon Pride MV was excellent. Something doesn't add up.

And I'm also surprised Naoko still let TOEI do it when she was largely unsatisfied with the changes the first anime did in the first place.

I don't think Naoko had a choice. The studio has the rights to Sailor Moon and it's either "with them" or no anime at all. At least, that's how I understand the situation. As for the quality of the first anime compared to the second... it's a 20+ year difference. I don't think they were ever an "amazing" studio but during this quarter of a century they've become one of the worst. I've been reading about their practices when it comes to international distribution as well - after all the whining about the Viz Media release I had to start reading. And apparently they have a history of screwing people over, selectively providing bad content (one company used a fansubbed OVA for their official release because the video was so much better than what Toei sent them); not taking care of their masters, etc. And now that most animation - even 2D animation - is done on a computer, I dare say they're lazier than ever.

At this point I believe that the only way for us to get a high quality Sailor Moon that will please everyone and be objectively GOOD, is if Toei sells the rights to the franchise or if the studio is engulfed by someone bigger and better. Otherwise... I wouldn't be surprised if Crystal was the end of the franchise.

And don't even get me started on the toy/merch monopoly from certain toy companies which, compared to other Japanese anime/manga toys/collectibles, only produce items that are overpriced and subpar in quality. Yes, I'm looking at you, Bandai, MegaHouse, Volks and Banpresto! Myself, I am a huge fan of figures. I own quite a few anime figures (a few of which I only bought because of how awesome they were, without me even knowing the characters or the source material) and was hoping that this 20th Anniversary would bring some awesome new ones for me to finally own. But alas... NO. Good companies like Max Factory, Alter or GSC can't access the rights to release Sailor Moon characters and so we're stuck with bulky fingers and details, awkward poses, badly drawn faces, etc. The only ones I actually like are the Banpresto prize figures, but they're tiny and they have issues typical to prize figures: seams, paint defects, etc. I also have the Figuarts Zero Mars on order, but only because I doubt they'll be able to do better and I want to own at least one "high-grade" Mars figure... A part of me knows I have way better figures in my collection, that I got for way less money - but... only "good" new Mars. Oh well. And if they release a Serenity they'll get my money for that one, too. Also because "I want this character and I doubt I'll do better". 

The only good company who might stand a chance today would be Kotobukiya. They were able to release some SM figures when the company was still young, years ago, and they were probably the coolest old figures to be produced. Of course, they never said anything about SM in these past 3 years, but since they had the rights so long ago, maybe they stand more of a chance than the other GOOD figures companies.

And the rest of the merch... well, let's just say that I do like a lot of it and have been buying stuff and will continue to buy stuff. But I'm not stupid, I can tell when I'm being ripped off - and a lot of it is indeed very rip-off-ish. 50$ for a plastic room freshener? Yeah, us Moonies are verging on madness. 

So... yeah, I think our problem is that these corporations monopolize the franchise. Would be nice is Naoko could just take her story somewhere else and forget all about Toei and the greedy toy companies. But chances are, that's not going to happen.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:16 am

The only item I caved in and bought was the proplica Moon Stick and I bought an open box one on Amazon. The wand was in great condition, but the box was banged up from their initial shipment. I got it for $60 and it's authentic. 

You're right about some of the merchandise. I want to buy a lot of it, but is it really worth it?

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:37 am

I have the Proplica Moon Stick as well and I do cherish it because I've been wanting one for so long... and truly now, the design is just awesome (no more orange-peel moon, yay!). But I didn't buy the Cutie Moon Rod from the series and only plan on getting the Spiral Heart Moon Rod when it comes out. These are very expensive so I need to prioritize.

And I dunno, it depends on the fan, I guess, but I think a lot of the merch is not worth it. Us Moonies go crazy over anything under the Sailor Moon insignia and Toei know that. So they're selling us... chopsticks, room freshener, plates, pointers, socks, cheap jewelry sold under super-high prices... personal hygiene items! etc etc etc.

A while ago I was joking with my friends that all that's left is for them to produce Sailor Moon tampons and condoms. Then they released the first part of the joke and now I await to see the Tuxedo Kamen condoms get announced. They'll be rose-scented.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:54 am

I've got the Cutie Moon Rod and i plan to get the KaleidoMoon sword once it comes out. As for the rest of it, i may buy it but not the crazy stuff (like the Tortilla's)
Anyway, here is something my friend came up with this morning and it's basically what Toei's doing:

The audience: All we want is better quality episodes. That's it.
The producers: Hmm, noooo..... I don't think that's possible. How about we, instead give you something better? ..... Wait for it..... Beauty gummies! Sanitary pads! Tortilla Chips! 
The audience: *cricket chirping in the distance* ...... We still want better quality episodes!
The producers: *several months later* Now, wouldn't you like to own Sailor Moon Motor Oil, Sailor Moon Hangers, Sailor Moon Hand Puppets, Sailor Moon Toilet Paper! Sailor Moon everything! 
The audience: ...So we don't get the better quality episodes nor the rest of the manga adapted.
The producers: Nope, but we're getting more money with all this merchandise and saving a ton by not giving you what you want!

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:07 pm

I have been a big fan of Crystal since it was first announced and have been one of its biggest defenders but even I have to admit to being disappointed in this latest episode.  I've been avoiding trying to compare it to the original anime since this is supposed to be a new adaptation of the manga, but I really feel like the original anime had a much more powerful season one finale.  The original anime's ending is still one of the greatest season finales ever, anime or otherwise.  It was emotional, heart wrenching, powerful, and gutsy.  This ending in comparison feels like every other magical girl finale with the power of love triumphing over the big bad guy.   The original Sailor Moon anime had this too but it was acceptable back then because it was still something new but comes across as lazy in a post-Madoka world.   I also remember reading before that Naoko originally wanted to kill the Sailor Soldiers off in her manga but wasn't allowed to for some reason and so with Crystal supposed to be representing Naoko's true vision of Sailor Moon, I was hoping we'd get to see it happen here, but they took the lazy route instead and went with the manga ending.  Even compared to the manga, it just feels rushed and inconsistent here.  I'm especially concerned with them changing it so that Sailor Moon
Spoiler:
 
.  This episode had way too many deus ex machina and plot holes.  The original anime had this too but I don't remember so many happening in one episode.  We're supposed to believe the Holy Sword can break through any metal on Earth including a diamond but it can't break through Mamoru's watch?  The least they could have done was come up with some excuse like having Mamoru's watch being made out of the same metal that the Holy Sword was.  What was the deal with the watch anyway and why was it so important?  I miss the Star Locket from the original anime which was much more powerful and emotional to me.  The best scenes in this episode to me are all the scenes with Luna who has to be the best character in Crystal so far and I'm not sure we as the audience are supposed to prefer Luna over the Soldiers.  Also, I haven't been one to complain about the animation but it really was just horrible this episode, even by Crystal standards.  What was with the Soldiers looking like zombies when they got knocked out?  And getting Queen Serenity's dress wrong was just embarrassing.  I'm still looking forward to Black Moon as that was one of my fav arcs from the manga but I kept getting the impression Toei was tired of this arc and was wanting to move on to Chibi-usa and Pluto.  I'm ready to move on myself but the poor execution of this episode has me concerned how they're going to handle the climax of the Black Moon arc as that's one of my favorite final battles from the manga.
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:35 pm

If I remember correctly the watch did stop Usagi from killing herself in the manga. However she still got hurt. The watch saved her vital organs. The same goes for Tux with the stones. They were both laying a pool of blood in the manga. Either way it's dumb seeing how the sword can break through diamonds. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:53 pm

I personally liked this episode! I mean, reading the manga again it seems to generally follow the plot. I teared up a lot at various points because it was pretty emotion evoking. Luna's pleas to the Crystal on the Moon were really really intense, and I really loved that the girls were so strong in this episode, they had their moments then said, NO, Not on my life! Literally. I liked seeing all the Generals with Endymion, it was nice.  I also don't think the animation was truly an issue, so far the only episode I was mad about was #3 because that one was just so bad on so many levels. But I thought this one was pretty much on par and that was fine.  Overall I enjoyed watching it.  Only thing that bummed out was that Mamo-chan wasn't blind when we woke up, I think it would have been really good to keep that in there, but not a huge deal.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:53 pm

@Sailor Lily wrote:
@Goddess Yami wrote:

ALSO:



Someone has been in the princess's closet.



Well...makes sense...


Please Source This.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:55 pm

Luna was definitely the best part about the episode and the whole show so far.  Someone should make a video of Luna's greatest Crystal hits or something.
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:41 pm

I enjoyed this episode more than the last. I was happy they made Metallia a lot more harder to defeat, which I still wish they would've done with Beryl. I liked the Shittennou coming back for a brief tender moment with Endymion, though I agree it's weird that the crystals kept Mamoru from getting hit by the sword. That whole thing was just awkward.
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:51 pm

Neo Queen Serenity wrote:
Only thing that bummed out was that Mamo-chan wasn't blind when we woke up, I think it would have been really good to keep that in there, but not a huge deal.

That part of the manga actually always confuses me. Why was he blinded? Was it to show the effect that Metalia was having on the planet? It just seems so random to me.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:57 am

@mangaka-chan wrote:
Neo Queen Serenity wrote:
Only thing that bummed out was that Mamo-chan wasn't blind when we woke up, I think it would have been really good to keep that in there, but not a huge deal.

That part of the manga actually always confuses me. Why was he blinded? Was it to show the effect that Metalia was having on the planet? It just seems so random to me.
It's a common trope. There's a story in the New Testament about a man who is blinded and then sees only through God's intervention. He then goes onto become one of the most famous disciples. It's just a story element to demonstrate that Sailor Moon is more powerful than Metalia at this point and is almost divine.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:18 pm

^ And it's a fairytale element as well. In the original story, the witch throws Rapunzel's prince from the tower, down into the thorns below. The thorns blind him and he wanders the land alone and blind until Rapunzel (now a short-haired mother, banished from the tower) finds him, and her tears bring back his sight. The "tears" thing was kept in the Disney movie but not the thorns and the blindness. They were almost completely kept in "Into the Woods" though.

I'm not religious and not very informed on those stories, so I didn't make the biblical connection. To me the fairytale connection was key 

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:13 pm

Sailor Moon has always been portrayed as a messiah sort of figure, especially in later arcs, so that's likely why I made the biblical connection.

That tends to be the problem with Sailor Moon Crystal though. I'm fine with changes in adaptations, but they add and remove content without considering what impact it has to the story. Honestly, I would have loved a whole new reboot at this point with the same characters but a different story.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:42 pm

I would not've minded if the road was different but the story arrived at the same place (Dark Kingdom finale, finding out about their past lives, etc). As I said previously, I regard Crystal as being a "summary" or "abridged" version of SM.

But to be quite honest, I think "La Reconquista" did a better job at summarizing the first arc - especially considering that it had a shorter time to do so. Maybe we didn't need to go through all the introductory episodes. Maybe things about the other senshi could've been explained in dialogue and flashbacks and we could've started the story later on the timeline. Or maybe not - I suspect that new viewers would've found it confusing or annoying.

Oh well. Maybe 25 years from now. For now I shall enjoy what we get Razz

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:00 pm

Childlike Empress wrote:
But to be quite honest, I think "La Reconquista" did a better job at summarizing the first arc - especially considering that it had a shorter time to do so.
La Reconquista will likely always be my favorite adaptation of the first arc. Just to name a few nice things they did with it:

- Expanded upon Mamoru's power as a technical Sailor Earth
- Expanded the Shitennou, but not forgetting to define and showcase the inner senshi
- Cutting content but not forgetting to include it in other areas (senshi introduction episodes cut but their personalities and drives are clearly explained and shown)

I watched La Reconquista with a friend who had only seen Sailor Moon Crystal. He was baffled when Sailor Venus started to sing, as she does a pop star like routine for her part of the song. I was like, "Oh yeah, it's her dream to be a pop star." He had no idea the character was even supposed to be funny or pompous given what we know of her in Crystal. That's the real tragedy imo. New fans are left in the dust with this adaptation.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:10 pm

Well hopefully they'll continue this new series of musicals. I actually haven't watched "Petite Etrangere" yet, but if it's similar to the first one then I'll probably like it Razz

The trouble is, musicals aren't for everyone. Personally I grew up obsessed with Disney movies so to me they're awesome. But to others... not so much. Especially when they're in Japanese.

But the thing is, that musical has given me hope that MAYBE a movie adaption of the first arc is not impossible to pull off Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 13 Discussion (Spoilers)   Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:24 pm

Childlike Empress wrote:
Well hopefully they'll continue this new series of musicals. I actually haven't watched "Petite Etrangere" yet, but if it's similar to the first one then I'll probably like it Razz
The second one is incredible. If you liked the first, you'll definitely like the second. They really improved this time around, if you can believe it.

I like the second because, without spoiling, they actually added some creative elements into the Black Moon clan. I was actually surprised by a certain plot development, which hasn't happened for me in Sailor Moon since I've read the manga. Please go watch it. You'll love it.

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