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SayakaSakura
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PostSubject: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:33 am

What did you guys think of the episode. I thought it was pretty good.
Pros:
They fixed Chibiusa's outfit from the preview
NEO-QUEEN SERENITY OMG 
I could relate to Mako this episode since i was also coughing through out the entire thing (TBH, in that scene where Mako spots the UFO i looked outside my window. Yeah, i'm crazy)
Petz was fabulous
The scenes with Asanuma and Makoto were perfect
Sparkling Wide Pressure

Cons:
WHAT is up with the Moon Stick being in Moon Princess Halation? (Get it right Toei)
So Jupiter is able to do her speech while floating in mid air now?
NQS hologram looks like Bratz doll
And Rubeus sorta came out of nowhere (When he appeared i was thinking 'Oh hi Rubeus. Where'd you come from?')
And finally, UNAZUKI WHERE ARE YOU

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:07 am

Yeah, I think you already said everything Razz


First off I LOVE it to see more of the girls! I really missed it in the first 14 episodes. The scenes with Makoto and Asanuma were just great! (And Makoto's parents looked so cute ^-^) And I love it how the senshi are connected to their elements - even in their civilian form. Ami could hear the broken spot in the water pipe and Mako builds up a static charge when she gets sick.

Also I really like Crystal-Chibiusa more than 90s anime-Chibiusa. In the 90s anime she was just a brat for me but in Crystal I actually like her. And I really love Usagi and Chibiusa together! They cannot live together, nor apart - love that.

And Ikuko and Kenji...they are so cute, tee hee

But what I really didn't like was the Art Style of this episode. It's just a personal thing I guess but I just don't like it xD And what the heck happened to Usagi's Cutie Moon Rod? Suddenly it was the Moon Stick from episode 13?! Oh Toei...

All in all pretty good episode. But I liked the last one better ^^

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:12 am

@Princess Moon wrote:

But what I really didn't like was the Art Style of this episode. It's just a personal thing I guess but I just don't like it xD And what the heck happened to Usagi's Cutie Moon Rod? Suddenly it was the Moon Stick from episode 13?! Oh Toei...
Sailor Moon and the attack of the Stock Footage! 

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:10 am

Let's talk about how absolutely baller Sparkling Wide Pressure was! FINALLY, we have had an attack that looks way better than its older version from twenty years ago. Give me a break, Toei.

I especially liked how well they adapted the manga. Although I did notice that the failure to introduce certain concepts has mdae other scenes confusing. For example, we weren't introduced to the fact that Minako can sense when someone is going crazy on the Sailor V game so that scene makes no sense. We also haven't been introduced to Mamoru's powers yet either so his hand touchy power doesn't make sense either. The pacing was really off when Makoto was talking about her dead parents. The wink is supposed to be a reassuring thing. She should have had two more seconds to make a face like she was realizing that the statement might be taken the wrong way. "The cat talked?!" joke was incredible though. Nice job, Toei.

And, finally, the moment that only one or two of you have waited for... it's the return of the Sailor Moon Crystal Hate Train!


Choo choo!

In all honesty, I hate that this thing is returning. The past two episodes have been absolutely stellar and it's sad to see that Toei has fallen back to its same old tricks. Again, the plot is great... but that's about it. The animation was so, so bad.

Betz's arrival in present day was terrible. I can't find a particular screengrab, but there was a long good seconds where we were presented with some kind of abomination that was supposed to be Betz. Also, the hologram of Neo Queen Serenity looked terrible with her face bunched up. Just check out the original manga version to see what I mean. She's supposed to be a regal Queen, not someone who looks like they're about to poop.

Finally, I can't see how anyone can defend this particular mistake.



It's the moon stick animation from Episode 13. It's the wrong weapon. How do you do this, Toei. How.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:32 am

One thing that hasn't been brought up was they cut out this scene from the manga where Makoto is talking to Asanuma about an old friend of hers she had that was very close to her but she left to come to Juban without telling her and how she regretted that.  I was hoping they would expand on that like they did with Ami's flashback in the previous episode.  They also cut out the part in the manga where Mamoru says Luna-P was the reason why Chibi-usa kept winning the games at the arcade, so now those scenes don't make much sense in Crystal without the explanation for them.  Having said that, I mostly enjoyed the episode.  I loved the scenes of Usagi and the girls hanging out at the arcade and the Fruits Crown Parlor, the scenes of Ikuko and Kenji together were just adorable, and even though they were talking about the enemy, we did get an actual date with Usagi and Mamoru!    That was something we never got to see much of even in the old anime so I was really glad to see some alone time between them in Crystal.   I was disappointed that even though Chibi-usa talked about Pluto in her scene with Luna-P in the rain, they didn't show her face like they did in the manga, but I did love the cute scene of Chibi-usa using Luna-P to make the doves.  I was caught off guard with the Cutie Heart Moon Rod being replaced by the Moon Stick from the Dark Kingdom arc considering the last few episodes had actually been pretty decent with the animation.  I hope this is something they'll correct on the Blu Ray.
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:10 pm

@Neon Genesis wrote:
They also cut out the part in the manga where Mamoru says Luna-P was the reason why Chibi-usa kept winning the games at the arcade, so now those scenes don't make much sense in Crystal without the explanation for them.

I can't believe I didn't even notice that. I'm glad my friend who is not a SM fan is watching these because he talks about stuff like this all the time. A lot of us don't notice it because we've already read the manga but it can be jarring.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:20 pm

I feel like I'm the only one who didn't find the Makoto/Asanuma scene all that touching, especially when compared to the manga. Aside from his introductory episode, he didn't really make an appearance until now. While in the manga we learned a bit more about him and his obsession admiration towards Mamoru, thus making him a somewhat more established character and having more impact in his appearances. It was still cute, don't get me wrong. This is easily one of my favorite Mako-chan scenes. But it wasn't actually touching like it was in the manga.
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:53 pm

But it's an anime milestone that somebody's sempai actually noticed them!

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:47 pm

This episode was cute <3 i love this girly side of Makoto ^.^

yet is the boring part of this saga =_= /sits and waits for the episode in the future when things finally get more interesting/

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat Mar 07, 2015 2:11 pm

I wanted to hug Usagi and Chibi Usa in this episode!  I felt bad for both of them!  And I loved seeing the picture of Mako's parents!  I always wondered what they looked like.


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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:11 pm

One of my fav moments from this episode

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:12 pm

OMG I CRIED WHEN WE SAW THE PHOTO OF MAKO'S PARENTS!!! 
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:27 pm

This may be just nitpicking, but why is it that when they're out in the rain, Asanuma refers to Makoto as "Makoto-sempai" but when they're inside, he keeps referring to her as "Makoto-san?"  And I love Asanuma and all, but his hair just seemed really goofy in this episode to me for some reason.  It reminded me of the kind of crazy hairstyle you'd see in a show like Yugioh or something.
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:12 pm

Umm...where was Unazuki this episode?

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:24 pm

She's been dropped all of Crystal so far since the start of Black Moon.  She was supposed to be in episode 15 but they cut her out then too.  They also cut out the part about Motoki finding out the Soldiers' true identities.  Toei apparently seems to have deemed her not important enough to keep in the show this time.
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:43 am


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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:38 am

One of my favourite episodes! The arcade part was soo cute and NQS and KE!  OMG I love them! The animation errors are ridiculous as always, but I enjoyed this episode.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:11 am

Haine wrote:
yet is the boring part of this saga =_= /sits and waits for the episode in the future when things finally get more interesting/
Really? I've always thought that this was the more interesting part of the arc. I guess I just don't think the future stuff really is all that great. IMO, it actually kills tension for future arcs since we know that Sailor Moon and her friends have a really good chance of securing a safe future. I guess to each his own.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:13 pm

I just realized....Mamo-chan's hair wasn't soft purple in the flashback



Btw the crystal palace looks like an actual palace, not just a giant icicle anymore!

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:23 pm

@TuxedoMoon wrote:
One of my favourite episodes! The arcade part was soo cute and NQS and KE!  OMG I love them! The animation errors are ridiculous as always, but I enjoyed this episode.
I love the arcade stuff too but one thing that kind of bothered me about it.  If Minako and the Soldiers are so concerned about Chibi-usa beating the Sailor V game and opening up the entrance to their secret hideout, why did Luna and Artemis make it so that the entrance was opened up by beating a video game anyway?  I mean, it stands to reason that if you're at an arcade and there's a video game based on a popular figure there that people will want to play it and try to beat the high score.  So it seems a bit risky to me for them to make beating the game the way you get into the base.  And why are they concerned about Chibi-usa entering the base anyway?  She already knows they're the Sailor Soldiers at this point in the manga so what do they have to hide from her?
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:06 pm

Do you all think you were free from my opinions? I have returned from my mini vacation! I missed Crystal due to leaving Saturday morning.


I really want to point out something because it seems like people are still not getting this. There's a huge difference the animation and the art style. The art style is the art of the characters and the setting. The animation is the movement of the characters and the setting. With that being said the art style of this episode looks really strange. Everyone's faces look more pointy.  What's really strange it worked with the scenes where the characters were making goofy faces. Which I miss dearly from the manga and the original anime. I don't mind having a more elegant series, but the characters can still make silly faces. It's part of being human.

The arcade scene was adorable and someone pointed out they didn't explained why Chibiusa was winning at everything. I think they figure Mamoru saying 'that toy' was good enough for an explanation.  

Also way to go Crystal for ruining who's Chibusa's parents are. Did the manga show that? Because if not it ruins the mystery for newcomers. 

By the way I have new headcaon where Chibiusa becomes a magician. Because that would totally be cute. 

This picture CJ?



Because I totally agree with your statement. I always hated that image of NQS anyway. So it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Actually I really don't care for Crystal Tokyo at all. Nor do I care for Chibiusa at all. I don't hate her or anything and she can be super cute at times. But I feel like her character is wasted. The whole being trapped into your parent's shadow has been done to death. Plus it doesn't help that shes named after her mother. I get naming your kid after a deceased relative, but naming a kid after yourself? It shows you have a big ego and it's pure laziness at its finest.

Back to the episode!

For being episode about Makoto it took awhile to get to her scenes. Kind of like with Rei in her kidnapping episode. Seeing her talking that kid was cute. I kind of felt like the kissing scene came out of no where. Then the fight scene. Meh. The last episode had better fighting animation which sucks. Jupiter is such a power house it's a shame we can't see her true strength. Jupiter's attacks are the best looking attacks so far in Crystal. As for moon's attack in this episode.. Toei....it's really embarrassing when you animate the wrong stuff. I understand a glove being missing in like a transformation sequence, but using the wrong wand or a character's outfit? Get your act together! That is noticeable to the common eye! You have to present this to the world and they let that go? Mad

So overall? This episode gets a big fat meh from me. I am really disappointed. After Ami's episode, I thought things were going to get better. Seeing how they did Jupiter's introduction so well I thought the same for her kidnapping. So I really have no idea what to think anymore.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:36 pm

I kind of want to go back through each Act and see if there's a pattern between which creators are doing which episodes and comparing to animation, art style, and pacing/storytelling quality.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:39 pm

Same here, but they would require watching the episodes again.  :bunnypokerface

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:16 am

It's weird but I liked this episode more than the past two. I've found the previous ones mostly mediocre/boring story wise, but then they started emoting a lot in this episode, and I guess I got overjoyed because of the sudden influx of ~emotions and facial expressions all over the place. The sequence in Crown is particularly expressive and funny and enjoyable. I liked that even Minako was reacting to Usagi being Usagi, but then she still pays attention and notices Luna-P. We're getting small characterizations bits! And I really liked the art for the most part in this episode. Everyone looked gorgeous. That's about the only thing I've come to expect the most out of Crystal because when they do it right, things look really beautiful, so I guess lowering my expectations worked.

Also, I couldn't stand Chibiusa in the 90s anime, but here I'm actually quite loving her. She's so adorable, and even when she's saying 'you suck' at Usagi, it just comes across as funny rather than annoying. We're finally getting the proper dynamic between them where they bicker and stuff but it's not overdone or over the top.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:16 pm

@Goddess Yami wrote:


Also way to go Crystal for ruining who's Chibusa's parents are. Did the manga show that? Because if not it ruins the mystery for newcomers. 

That scene wasn't in the manga but in fairness the original anime spoiled stuff for the audience all the time.  Pretty much every episode title was a spoiler for that episode (episode 45 title card anyone?) and if it wasn't spoiled in the title card, the episode preview usually told everything that was going to happen and not to mention the spoilers they had in the opening credits quite frequently.  There was also that episode in the original anime's R season where they had the showdown between the Soldiers and the Four Sisters where they showed us a full on clip of Chibi-usa playing with the Soldiers in the future and Wiseman looking at the hologram of NSQ in the original show.  But my mother is a newbie fan to Sailor Moon and I've been showing both the original anime to her for the first time and Crystal at the same time.  I've been very careful not to spoil anything about Sailor Moon to her as she doesn't know anything about what's going to happen in upcoming episodes and seasons and so far she doesn't seem to have caught onto Chibi-usa being Usagi and Mamoru's daughter, even after watching the new episode of Crystal.  All that scene really shows is that Chibi-usa knew Serenity and Endymion in the future, but I don't know you could come away figuring out that they're her parents from that scene alone, at least my mother hasn't yet.

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Actually I really don't care for Crystal Tokyo at all. Nor do I care for Chibiusa at all. I don't hate her or anything and she can be super cute at times. But I feel like her character is wasted. The whole being trapped into your parent's shadow has been done to death. Plus it doesn't help that shes named after her mother. I get naming your kid after a deceased relative, but naming a kid after yourself? It shows you have a big ego and it's pure laziness at its finest.
I don't think it's egotistical as much as it a Moon Kingdom tradition to name yourself after your mother.  Princess Serenity had her mother's name after all so it makes some sense to me that she would pass her name down to her daughter.  And I love that in the future, Chibi-usa seems to be taking her mother's family name rather than her dad's.  Yay for a futuristic matriarchy!  Although Usagi Chiba would be a cute name too. 

Quote :
It's weird but I liked this episode more than the past two. I've found the previous ones mostly mediocre/boring story wise, but then they started emoting a lot in this episode, and I guess I got overjoyed because of the sudden influx of ~emotions and facial expressions all over the place. The sequence in Crown is particularly expressive and funny and enjoyable. I liked that even Minako was reacting to Usagi being Usagi, but then she still pays attention and notices Luna-P. We're getting small characterizations bits! And I really liked the art for the most part in this episode. Everyone looked gorgeous. That's about the only thing I've come to expect the most out of Crystal because when they do it right, things look really beautiful, so I guess lowering my expectations worked.
OMG, I love the inclusion of the facial expressions in this episode!   Overall it seems like the Black Moon arc has more of a general balance of the light hearted comedy and drama that made the original anime a classic as opposed to the Dark Kingdom arc which was more of a straightforward tragic soap opera and I think the show benefits itself better because of it.
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:36 pm

Sailor Mercury wrote:
Also, I couldn't stand Chibiusa in the 90s anime, but here I'm actually quite loving her. She's so adorable, and even when she's saying 'you suck' at Usagi, it just comes across as funny rather than annoying. We're finally getting the proper dynamic between them where they bicker and stuff but it's not overdone or over the top.
 
I completely agree! I absolutely despised Chibi-Usa in the classic anime, she just always seemed to wreck any kind of emotional moment for Usagi and Mamoru, whether on purpose or on accident, that just irked me so bad. Her character in Crystal though I find more appealing and I can relate to her more. Just a scared, lonely girl looking for help but cautious to trust. I couldn't do that in the classic anime because she just came off as super selfish, didn't sympathize for her at all.

Also, I'm kind of disappointed they showed NQS already even though I've been dying to see her (no pleasing these fans, eh? lol). It just seemed kind of random Chibi-Usa having this flashback, that I didn't have time to process and freak out that I got my first glimpse of the future rulers of Earth. I haven't read the manga in quite a while so I can't recall if this scene actually occurred, think someone posted earlier that it didn't. 

I've come to accept from Crystal that the pacing and storyline will never truly satisfy me. But that doesn't stop me from looking for that new episode every few weeks and feeling that nostalgia and excitement of certain characters appearing. It seems my one minute of fan girling overrides my overall experience of the episode and that's not good, lol, but hey I can't help it. Now to look forward to Pluto appearing!
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:45 pm

@ Neon 

It's very egotistical in royal families. Passing your greatness down to your heir. Razz

I would change my name if I was Chibiusa.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:08 pm

Sailor Mercury wrote:

Also, I couldn't stand Chibiusa in the 90s anime, but here I'm actually quite loving her. She's so adorable, and even when she's saying 'you suck' at Usagi, it just comes across as funny rather than annoying. We're finally getting the proper dynamic between them where they bicker and stuff but it's not overdone or over the top.
One of my favorite moments of this episode is when Chibi-usa gives Usagi the Tuxedo Mask doll and Usagi gets mad and jealous of her for getting one from Mamoru when she didn't.  But Chibi-usa says she thought Usagi was feeling down and Usagi realizes Chibi-usa was just trying to cheer her up.  You never got moments like those in the original anime where they actually tried to bond so I really love these moments in Crystal.

Quote :
Also, I'm kind of disappointed they showed NQS already even though I've been dying to see her (no pleasing these fans, eh? lol). It just seemed kind of random Chibi-Usa having this flashback, that I didn't have time to process and freak out that I got my first glimpse of the future rulers of Earth. I haven't read the manga in quite a while so I can't recall if this scene actually occurred, think someone posted earlier that it didn't.
I think one thing that does kind of annoy me about this is that even though they add in this flashback scene of Serenity and Endymion that wasn't in the manga, as a result they end up cutting out a scene of the manga where Chibi-usa has a flashback of Sailor Pluto.  They still have Chibi-usa remember Pluto's words and her calling out her name but they don't show the flashback of what Pluto looks like as they did in the manga, which makes the scene where Chibi-usa calls out her name feel kind of weird and random in Crystal.
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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:52 am

I really enjoyed this episode. Actually, I enjoy Makoto-centric episodes in general.
What I just love is how they tell each episode from the perspective of one of the Inner Senshi lately and it sure makes you feel connected to the characters. Makoto felt like such a strong and gentle person in this episode again~! And Chibiusa was also extremely cute as well. I felt really sorry for her when she was out alone in the rain. The way her trauma and her loneliness is portrayed is just amazing. And wow, I had goosebumps when Mamoru touched her and had the vision of Crystal Tokyo.
What I also liked is how Kenji and Ikuko were interacting. It's really great that they have so many nice little scenes in Crystal.
I'm looking forward to next episode. Hope the show will keep up the quality it has at the moment.

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PostSubject: Re: SMC Episode 17 Discussion [Spoilers]   Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:19 am

@Suzu wrote:
I really enjoyed this episode. Actually, I enjoy Makoto-centric episodes in general.
What I just love is how they tell each episode from the perspective of one of the Inner Senshi lately and it sure makes you feel connected to the characters. Makoto felt like such a strong and gentle person in this episode again~! And Chibiusa was also extremely cute as well. I felt really sorry for her when she was out alone in the rain. The way her trauma and her loneliness is portrayed is just amazing. And wow, I had goosebumps when Mamoru touched her and had the vision of Crystal Tokyo.
What I also liked is how Kenji and Ikuko were interacting. It's really great that they have so many nice little scenes in Crystal.
I'm looking forward to next episode. Hope the show will keep up the quality it has at the moment.
Please don't take this the wrong way. I think this opinion is totally cool and I'm glad that you can enjoy the story on this level.

I've talked about this before on my blog and other sections of this forum. I feel almost as if there are two different comments in these threads. Some talk about the critical aspect of the show, including animation, adaptation and other areas. The other, like the post I just quoted, only talks about the show on a story level, so what the characters do in the plot. I don't think the latter is a bad way of looking at Crystal, I just think it's frustrating for people like me who've read the manga scores of times and know this stuff is coming. I don't think Toei Animation should be praised for a story that for the most part they've adapted poorly.

That being said, I don't think these opinions are bad at all. I get they're not supposed to be "praising Toei" at all. I actually think they're a solid way to enjoy this show. I'm just wondering if I should start a critique thread, not as a form of bashing or negativity, but a place to really get into what makes Sailor Moon Crystal tick. I'd be glad to start one or even a group on this forum that's into criticism not just for SMC but for nearly everything we view.

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