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 [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism

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Solipsi Rai
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   10th March 2015, 5:47 pm

@Neon Genesis wrote:
Also Tumblr is just a bad site in general regardless of feminism.  To judge feminism based on Tumblr would be like judging all anime fans based on 4Chan.

OH NO, 4chan! The "toilet of the internet" doesn't represent the majority of anime fans. They have a rivalry with other meme boards (Reddit, 9gag, etc), a hotbed of trolls, spammers and haxxors known to "ra/I/d" boards or "/I/nvade chats", and their infamous "humor": bodily functions, medical photos, bigotry like racism and sexism, and other sick sadistic humor (I learned they post childbirth vids you can find on YT for the "LULZ"). My recommendation is DO NOT check out 4chan.

I want to bring up the fact there are still sexist or misogynist boys or men with outdated, archaic beliefs about women and they teach their boys this crap to look down on women. Even our country (the USA) continues to hold prejudicial ideas of gender roles and that men have to do "this" or women must do "that". Most societies around the world continue to have gender stratification and restrict women from enjoying full access to education, health care, corporate business and government representation, because of customs or beliefs put women in "their place" apart from men. I wasn't around 50 years ago before feminism made a huge impact in American and western societies, but imagine what it was like for women brought up or told she can't be anything she wants, and has to represent herself or behave in a certain way by social rules because she's a woman.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   10th March 2015, 7:27 pm

Mike D boy wrote:


imagine what it was like for women brought up or told she can't be anything she wants, and has to represent herself or behave in a certain way by social rules because she's a woman.
I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic or not but... that's exactly what your life as a female is like, from the moment you're born until you die, everywhere in the world - admittedly, in some places it's worse than in others but I doubt there's a single country in the world where gender roles have stopped having weight in society.

Anyhow. Funnily enough I was having a similar conversation on the Romanian Vice page, on a translated article written by a young woman who's moved into her own apartment, and she says she feels bad about it because it's "just sad" for a woman to be alone. There's a lot of talk about the fear of becoming a "spinster" or a "crazy cat lady", and so on. And the Romanians responding (well actually there were only 3 of them but I get annoyed easily so I charged in with my wall of text) were saying that it's "normal" for women to feel that way, because they're "programmed" to want a family and a mate and it's "instinct". Uuuuuuh, how about no? We only feel like this because the fact that we're not as free with our lives as men are, is drilled into our heads since we're small and can barely speak. And then every time we're in society, every time we watch a movie or read a book, it's drilled into our heads even more. "Women's primary interest is romance" - and we can see even the heroines of the grittiest stories, not having their saga complete unless they also got a man during the adventure (Hunger Games, I'm looking at you!). Even worse if you're religious because then the church has even more ideas about what you should do with your life and body if you had the nerve to be born a woman. A man can live by himself forever, not have a family or anything, and just be content with stuff like traveling and doing freelance work to earn cash to sustain himself and his hobbies. Nobody has anything to comment, or if they do, they make jokes but they don't judge him as a failure. If a woman does that she's a spinster, she's regarded as "less complete" and people wonder "why nobody wanted her". As if she's a product that should've attracted a client before the expiration date, but now it's too late and she hasn't been able to accomplish her purpose. Boys are left the freedom to choose their own "purpose" in life, and so they have issues such as "what is the meaning of life?". Girls are told from the start what their purpose is and it's happened to me on numerous occasions for women my age to tell me that I'm wrong to not want children and marriage because "that's my purpose in this life, to carry on the species". Again - treat me like a product on a shelf, why won't you? Nowadays there's also the second option for those fancying themselves "business women", namely "having a career". But if you have a career and no family they still judge you nonetheless. Plus I wonder how many women realize there's more things you can do with your life than just these two: family and career. Again: it's drilled into our heads that we need families when we're small. Nowadays we're modernized: you can also be an independent career woman. But it's just one role that society "generously" gives you to add to that "family". It's still a very restrictive life. And still you'll be judged if you go that route and ignore the other.

And that's without even mentioning the way you're treated in school, at work, etc. It's always different from how the boys are treated. And it;s not just by elders - hearing someone your own age apply the same medieval sexist rhetoric breaks your heart... I have a friend who's in Law school. And there they have to discuss on certain fictional cases or fictional situations. And her class actually agreed once that they wouldn't vote for a woman as president because "she'd have those days of the month when she's being very difficult". If I'd read it on the Internet I'd've thought it was a joke or a troll. But sadly... no. 

I'm sorry to be going so off topic, I can't help it.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   10th March 2015, 7:38 pm

@Fire wrote:
Mike D boy wrote:


imagine what it was like for women brought up or told she can't be anything she wants, and has to represent herself or behave in a certain way by social rules because she's a woman.
I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic or not but... that's exactly what your life as a female is like, from the moment you're born until you die, everywhere in the world - admittedly, in some places it's worse than in others but I doubt there's a single country in the world where gender roles have stopped having weight in society.


I wasn't being sarcastic at all, but in the past...and still the case in most of the world, it was stricter or gender stratification is more enforced. Feminism is still necessary in this country and worldwide to keep in check the gender inequality that undeniably exists. In the US, being black is similar: the majority of people makes comments, statements and assumptions about you for being of a different skin color or "race" (actually, scientists said race is a social construct, not a hardcore biological reality). From pop culture or media to organized religion and morality, women are taught to be "different" because she is allegedly "another" group of people given societal roles: be a mother, housewife, take care of the home, and expected to be protected by her husband, father or male relatives. Even in an age of political correctness and enacted legislation against sexism in government or the workplace, there is sexism against women (and men in some ways), and the silent subtle notion of "male privilege" akin to "white privilege" reserves the most privileges or most rights to men.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   11th March 2015, 9:44 am

Quote :
 But if you have a career and no family they still judge you nonetheless. Plus I wonder how many women realize there's more things you can do with your life than just these two: family and career. Again: it's drilled into our heads that we need families when we're small. Nowadays we're modernized: you can also be an independent career woman. But it's just one role that society "generously" gives you to add to that "family". It's still a very restrictive life. And still you'll be judged if you go that route and ignore the other.

Even if you were to choose both the career path and to have a family, businesses still discriminate against you by not giving women paid leave when they're pregnant in many cases and there continues to be a significant wage gap between men and women employees.  Then you have all the instances of women facing sexual harassment in the work place that rarely seems to get punished.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   11th March 2015, 10:49 am

@Neon Genesis wrote:
Quote :
 But if you have a career and no family they still judge you nonetheless. Plus I wonder how many women realize there's more things you can do with your life than just these two: family and career. Again: it's drilled into our heads that we need families when we're small. Nowadays we're modernized: you can also be an independent career woman. But it's just one role that society "generously" gives you to add to that "family". It's still a very restrictive life. And still you'll be judged if you go that route and ignore the other.

Even if you were to choose both the career path and to have a family, businesses still discriminate against you by not giving women paid leave when they're pregnant in many cases and there continues to be a significant wage gap between men and women employees.  Then you have all the instances of women facing sexual harassment in the work place that rarely seems to get punished.

Exactly! And you know that question that everyone gets asked in a job interview, "where do you see yourself in 5 years' time"? For female interviewees that question is extra important, because employers assume that it's less stable to hire a woman for a job, because she'll get pregnant and leave the post and also ask you for money for maternal leave. I don't know if it's the same in the US but in my country's it's definitely like that. So it's harder to get a job, it's harder to keep a job because nobody takes you seriously, and when you do have a job you find yourself stuck doing second-hand tasks instead of what you were schooled for. If you're a guy you might have to make a few coffees. If you're a woman be prepared to be making a lot of coffees during your career. And also be prepared for subtle (or not so subtle) sexual harassment from your employers or the people working with them. And if you actually do get to do the job you were prepared for and have the audacity of doing great work... Prepare for the gossip about you and your employer. A woman is never just good at her job. She was pushed forward by the boss because she's having an affair with him.

I've even heard that used for teachers... In my country most teachers are women. No idea why, it's just a percentage. But sometimes you have couples who teach in the same school. I had a couple who were English (female) and Physics (male) teachers in middle school. And later on I had an English (female) and Maths (male) teachers in high school. And in both cases everyone, including other teachers and my own parents (!) were saying that the only reason the female teachers were in that school was because the males had pulled some strings to get them there. There was no story behind it, no actual case against them, but that was the seemingly logical assumption. And the real kicker: the English teacher in middle school was the school principal. But still people were saying that she was in that position because of her husband (who was obviously HER employee!).

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   15th March 2015, 9:52 pm

As a kid, I loved Naru and Nephrite's relationship and I always thought it was one of the most romantic subplots of the show.  While I still love Naru to death, rewatching it as an adult, you realize Nephrite was being pretty abusive to Naru during that arc.  He spends most of the time manipulating Naru for his own evil schemes, he yells at her for things she had no control over like him thinking she was Sailor Moon of all things, in one episode he possesses her body with his demon after tricking her into thinking he was going to kiss her even though he's like at least in his 30s, Nephrite nearly kills her at one point by trying to drain her energy, yet Naru still falls in love with the guy for some reason even though everyone in the show, including Usagi, can see Nephrite is bad for Naru.   Nephrite is only redeemed because he died for Naru but I think he would have a worse reputation if he never changed and he was killed by Sailor Moon.  Even in those last scenes with Naru, Nephrite was still being manipulative and lying to her constantly.  Yet for some reason, so many fans seem to love Naru and Nephrite together though personally I love Naru with Umino more.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   10th April 2015, 4:03 pm

@Neon Genesis wrote:
Quote :
Then you have all the instances of women facing sexual harassment in the work place that rarely seems to get punished.

Interestingly, corporate America in the last 25-30 years made huge efforts to stop sexual harassment on the job by implantation of strict rules of conduct meant to prevent sexual harassment of occuring. Many companies try to ban certain words, phrases, gestures, actions and conduct can be construed as sexual harassment based on state and federal laws. They also in workplace culture discourage coworkers, both opposite and same sexes, from fraternization and association outside of work, except if they attended the same church or religion (again based on state and federal law). And finally, the prohibition of office romance in an effort to stop from becoming sexual harassment cases, because it appears companies do not want sexual harassment, esp of women employees to occur on their business properties. I'm not surprised preventive measures hasn't stopped sexual harassment from occurrences and it only made the workplace stricter in order to protect women employees from such acts.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   17th July 2015, 7:56 am

I once heard Sailor Moon described as a happy feminist accident, and I believe that's the best way to put it.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   17th July 2015, 8:26 am

I'm not entirely sure how accidental it was, considering the franchise was effectively created as a girl-facing sentai series. The accidental part is how it ended up redefining basically the entire magical girl genre.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   17th July 2015, 3:05 pm

I'm not really sure Sailor Moon is meant to represent anything. To me it's just a cutesy little story about a girl who fights evil while also having regular problems. I do understand why the series is seen as a "feminist icon" though

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   17th July 2015, 3:48 pm

That's what I mean! It was't supposed to be feminist of anything like that. It just sorta became like that.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   20th July 2015, 10:32 pm

I think that Sailor Moon has very strong feminism representation. In a lot of typical superhero stories and such, the female character has to learn how to be "strong" in the traditional masculine way. Shows like Sailor Moon completely flip that over and give the main characters girly outfits, girly weapons, and even girlier attacks. Whats more, the characters in Sailor Moon are characters we can relate to, who are clumsy, smart, slightly scary, all of these things. Sailor Moon teaches us to value femininity, and many different things about feminism.

I apologize if the point I'm making isn't clear, it's 1 am and I'm very enthusiastic about this!

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   23rd July 2015, 9:37 am

Nice article! I think, yes Sailor Moon is very feminist. I believe that Feminism can be expressed in many different ways, even in the old fashioned role of house wife as long it's her choice and the men aren't subjugating women. Sailor Jupiter is a good example of that. She likes to cook and clean but she's tough and can take care of herself, at the same time she's a girly with her dainty rose earrings and a tomboy too, which makes her very diverse and empowering as a character. It just goes to show that Feminism has no single strict way or certain appearance! I've met so many people who assume a ''feminist'' hates men, and assumes that feminist's are unattractive,or look a certain way it's just not true. Also, I feel Sailor Moon is very influenced by Paganism to some degree, with the Moon Goddess symbolism and the Male ( Tuxedo Mask ) Representing the Earth similar to the ''Horned God'' or Pan, as is seen in some Pagan religions that are feminist in nature. I wonder if Naoko had a hobby or fascination with Paganism or Hellenism to some degree since Sailor Moon has a bit in common with it, and the name of the cat's are Greek deities.


Sailor Mercury is shown to be very strong intellectually as well, which is important for us women, and for young girls to have a character like that to look up to because we ARE intelligent and can be scientist's and professor's and all that too! I like how Sailor Uranus is portrayed as a very strong feminist I mean she, like Naoko is a Ferarri lover and rides a motorbike even and, Starlights too. But in other media, you rarely see females that are so awesome like that without being sexualized in some way. Feminism the way I see it, is about equality. Men can be feminist's as well, I'd say in this day and age a good majority are and have no problem with women in power but we still have a long ways to go and a lot needs to be changed to reflect that. Typically, those against feminism in it's most basic meaning are misogynistic and abusive toward women. Best to steer clear of those people at all cost! No woman needs to be ''rescued'' or patronized.


There are a few of the villains in the series that seem to have some of these behavior traits and they get their butt's handed to them so to speak lol! I really like the sisterly bond between the Sailor Scouts, and it's great that Tuxedo Mask is the sidekick. It's not often in western comics or even other mainstream Anime that there is a male sidekick to a female hero, so that makes a nice change. It's good to mix things up a bit. I am a married Heterosexual female, but always really liked Sailor Moon for it being accepting of Homosexuality and showing that strong, powerful women can look as tough as a Starlight, or as graceful and beautiful as Sailor Neptune. The show also show's that when Hotaru get's reborn as a baby girl and adopted by the other outer's that there is nothing wrong with a baby being raised outside of the traditional norm. Perhaps if more media were as open and empowering as Sailor Moon is, there would be more children watching/reading and growing up with these equality values. Disney still perpetuates the stereotypes to some degree but Disney is a marketing monster and they know that sticking to the traditional christian family values is what sells and that's ok. 


At least in Beauty in the Beast, it was Belle who saved the day and saved the prince! Mulan was a good story as well, but in real life the story was not so empowering and she was executed for what she did sadly and in the Disney version she was being groomed to marry, just like Jasmine in Aladdin was, and Pocahauntas. None of that behavior exist's in Sailor Moon, it's all just a bunch of butt kicking character's that girls and boys can look up to. My 2 year old little boy absolutely LOVES sailor moon. But he also loves my makeup, and he loves to play with dolls too and have one of his toe nails painted pink, LOL. He will ask me to put Sailor Moon on for him, and he has a few Sailor Moon barbies he carries around. No shame in that, and if anyone ever tries to tell him he can't enjoy it because he's a boy, I'll have a few words for em'. He just shows interest in my interest, and he's a doll. If I'm ever watching or reading Sailor Moon he joins me on his own, and when I order something online for my collection, he is usually just as excited about it as I am, hehehe <3
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   23rd October 2015, 1:08 am

@Neon Genesis wrote:
Quote :
 Personally I think it's important to hold onto and fight for the feminism label as I think it's been unfairly demonized by men and the media who play the "both sides" card whenever women's issues get discussed 
Actually, i think you have that wrong. Most men do not demonize feminists and the ones who do are usually joking and/or hate it because of the radicals (or as i like to call them feminazi's). The both sides you are talking about - how on Earth is that a bad thing? Most of the issues women face aren't gendered - men are raped too. In fact, 40% of rapists are women. Men also face unrealistic body standards. A vast majority of domestic violence crimes are committed by women, 4x more men commit suicide than women. 

My point is that men are not these crazy lustful sociopaths and that women are not perfect little snowflakes. If you support gender equality but want to focus more on women's issues, go ahead. Same goes for people who focus more on men's issues. Just stop creating false statistics and spreading around false information

Also, i just want to link to this very accurate picture of radical third wave feminists.

(prepares to be pelted with stones)

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   27th November 2015, 9:51 pm

@Neon Genesis wrote:
@JupiterThunderCrash wrote:


I just think that Sailor Moon liking Tuxedo Mask shouldn't automatically be considered a weakness or detriment to her. It's okay to care about your loved ones ^^. And as you said above, he saves her, but she often saves him when he's been kidnapped or brainwashed. They protect each other when things get really bad. And at the end of the day, she's still stronger than him in terms of raw power, and that's also something you don't often see.
It's not just that Sailor Moon likes Tuxedo Mask that bothers me about how its portrayed at times.  I actually quite love Usagi and Mamoru as a couple and I love the Miracle Romance but it seems like whenever Usagi is separated from Mamoru, she becomes very emotionally distraught.  Like in Sailor Stars, Usagi pretends to be happy around her friends even though she's very upset and worried about the lack of contact from Mamoru when she thinks he's in America and for most of this time, she doesn't confide in her friends at all until she eventually breaks down in front of everyone when she's reminded of him by Seiya.  In the first season of the original anime, after
Spoiler:
 
, Usagi is depressed for days and having traumatic nightmares even though in the original anime, Usagi barely knew anything about Mamoru at all and only started to have feelings for him in that episode.  The manga is a huge improvement over this but even in the original storyline, you have that whole thing of
Spoiler:
 
.   I think part of it is that the original anime was mostly written and produced by a mostly male staff and so it sort of portrays the Miracle Romance from a male perspective for a broad mainstream audience whereas the manga is from Naoko's perspective for a female audience.  I remember back in the old Tokyopop translation of the manga, they had those side notes from Naoko and she said in them that she thought the biggest difference between the anime and the manga was the anime was made by men and the manga was mostly made by women for a female readership.

To me, Usagi not showing her emotions is a sign of her strength.  Remember earlier in the series, all she did was cry and break down.  At this point, she knows that if she shows emotions, she might be seen as weak or as a "crybaby".  Of course, there is a point where she ends up breaking down eventually but someone has to strong enough to hold all that sadness within without continuously breaking down.  Also, showing her emotion would have made her friends worry so much about her, which is not what she wants.  She wants to be seen as strong.  Don't you think so?
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   27th November 2015, 10:16 pm

Personally for me, now that I re-watched it, I think there some aspects feminism in it.   For instance, like everyone says, the main character/protagonist is female.  Yes she has her moments of ditz and is a crybaby.  But think about it, she 14/15 for goodness sake, she's going through a lot of changes(physically, mentally, AND in her hormones), on top of all that her mother is strict with her about grades(as a Chinese girl I know how it feels to be less than stellar academically), now she is supposed to save the world.  Who would not get emotional about that.  I also feel like she isn't really "boy crazy" because she only like Andrew/Motoki for the most part until she remembers who she and Darien/Mamoru was.  Yes, during S she was in awe with Haruka, but Haruka isn't a guy.  Yes she is a klutz at times, but that is who she is.  She does make a comeback at the end of the episode.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   1st December 2015, 4:53 am

@SayakaSakura wrote:
@Neon Genesis wrote:
Quote :
 Personally I think it's important to hold onto and fight for the feminism label as I think it's been unfairly demonized by men and the media who play the "both sides" card whenever women's issues get discussed 
Actually, i think you have that wrong. Most men do not demonize feminists and the ones who do are usually joking and/or hate it because of the radicals (or as i like to call them feminazi's). The both sides you are talking about - how on Earth is that a bad thing? Most of the issues women face aren't gendered - men are raped too. In fact, 40% of rapists are women. Men also face unrealistic body standards. A vast majority of domestic violence crimes are committed by women, 4x more men commit suicide than women. 

My point is that men are not these crazy lustful sociopaths and that women are not perfect little snowflakes. If you support gender equality but want to focus more on women's issues, go ahead. Same goes for people who focus more on men's issues. Just stop creating false statistics and spreading around false information

Also, i just want to link to this very accurate picture of radical third wave feminists.

(prepares to be pelted with stones)

I think it's important we stay off the feminist hate train and stick to the actual debate about whether Sailor Moon is feminist or not. Also using words like 'feminazi' is really unnecessary because in all honesty, I've never heard about a group of feminists committing mass genocide upon a multitude of minority groups, have you?

Everything has already been stated on the reasons for and against Sailor Moon representing feminist qualities and I really see the message of feminism coming through in the show. I mean growing up I was presented with Pokemon, Digimon, Dragon Ball Z, One Piece... All male-centric animes whose female characters were either non-existent, background characters, portrayed as lesser characters or in Brock's case, constantly objectified. But in between these shows, there was a time slot for Sailor Moon and it was revolutionary. It was (up until Card Captor Sakura became Sailor Moon's successor on television) the only anime available to 6 year old me at the time, that represented girls. Girls who were yes, strong and magical and powerful but also girls with different personalities, different life goals and different interests. Therefore, instilling in me a realization that there was no set way to be. That I could be really smart or physically strong or boy-crazy or fiercely opinionated or highly emotional or a little obsessed with being famous or all at the same time. 

I'm currently re-watching the old anime in English sub and I find it interesting how the English dub cut so much out based on what was deemed appropriate content for the target audience and how it also tagged on the extra moral lesson at the end of each episode. I found this to be an interesting contrast between the Japanese and English versions of the anime. For example, I was a little worried watching the episode where Usagi freaks about gaining weight and the only person who makes complete sense and allows me to sigh with relief is Motoki when he tells her that she doesn't need to lose weight. I found myself feeling grateful that I grew up with Serena telling little me that dieting isn't a healthy way to lose weight and that I am beautiful no matter how I look and all that counts is inner beauty. I wonder what others think about whether the moral lessons added to the feminist message or not?
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   1st December 2015, 12:51 pm

To be fair, Sayaka was just saying her opinion (with facts). No harm in that right Smile

"Feminists have never committed mass genocide" Have you even seen Tumblr? Everywhere they post crud like "kill all men". It's not just on Tumblr too its on Reddit and other sites as well. Even if they haven't yet killed a mass of innocent people, who says they can't and won't in the future?

Do i think Sailor Moon is Feminist? No. It does feature badass female heroines taking down evil but that's not really anything special, especially these days where we have TONS of shows like this (Kim Possible, Star VS The Forces of Evil and Pretty Cure to name a few)

I've been hearing that Naoko made the series specifically to empower women. Where did she say this? Was it in an interview? And if so can i have a link to it? I refuse to believe this until i've seen set in stone evidence.

Besides isn't this topic violating the GC rules? Feminism/Equality are sort of "political topics" and in the rules it states that talk about religion,politics or other issues like this aren't allowed because they invite drama?

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   1st December 2015, 1:00 pm

As long as the topic stays on answering the question if Sailor Moon portrays feminism or is feminist its fine, it's when it starts getting into a debate about JUST feminism that it starts to break the rules. We do keep an eye on this topic for that reason. 

I don't see anything wrong with people using this anime to empower themselves, there are strong characters here and I believe that it does portray some positive feminist ideals however, I don't think it was created to be feminist exactly. Very few things are purposefully created for that reason.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   4th December 2015, 2:19 pm

@Addelyn wrote:
As long as the topic stays on answering the question if Sailor Moon portrays feminism or is feminist its fine, it's when it starts getting into a debate about JUST feminism that it starts to break the rules. We do keep an eye on this topic for that reason. 

I don't see anything wrong with people using this anime to empower themselves, there are strong characters here and I believe that it does portray some positive feminist ideals however, I don't think it was created to be feminist exactly. Very few things are purposefully created for that reason.
Ahh cool. Thanks for clarifying Addelyn!

I never said there was anything wrong with people using anime to empower themselves. I honestly don't care what people believe but when it gets to the stage where people claim "Naoko made Sailor Moon to be Feminist specifically!" that's when i start to take problem with it. That's people spreading around false information for the sake of a movement/belief. I've seen people on a number of sites claim this.

Similiar to what CJ said, i hated how they were milking the feminist quality's in the Moon Pride lyrics. Yes we get you are strong powerful women, but again these days that's not anything special. And with the topic on "The Little Mermaid", i love Ariel. She was my favourite princess as a kid. I remember dressing up in that pink dress she wears to go to the shopping center. Good times.
My point is that, yes, what Ariel did was no doubtly creepy and stalkerish but at the time of the films release she was praised for being more proactive than the previous princesses.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   4th December 2015, 4:31 pm

I don't believe I've ever seen any text or interviews where Naoko stated she created this specifically in a "feminist" mindset. However, at least in the Mixx/Tokyopop version of hte manga, in the little side notes, there is one section (I think its where she has that kinda sexy semi naked Usagi) where she talks about how the manga is made by women and the anime by men and there is a difference because of that. Also, IIRC there is a translated bit that says she just wanted to create a sexy heroine. I'm also pretty sure a lot of the ideas she has in the series came from her editor (male) and other higher ups that would approve or deny her ideas.

There's also the fact that this is 90s Japan (Japan isn't exactly known for its amazing feminist movement) and that Naoko was basically a newbie mangaka who I doubt would have done anything too radical, or else she probably would have never made it as far as she did.

I think though as the series progressed, she was able to fit in more female empowerment ideas into the story.

And yes, as Addelyn stated, as long as the topic stays on Sailor Moon, it is ok. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   5th December 2015, 12:38 am

Small Lady wrote:
I don't believe I've ever seen any text or interviews where Naoko stated she created this specifically in a "feminist" mindset. However, at least in the Mixx/Tokyopop version of hte manga, in the little side notes, there is one section (I think its where she has that kinda sexy semi naked Usagi) where she talks about how the manga is made by women and the anime by men and there is a difference because of that.  Also, IIRC there is a translated bit that says she just wanted to create a sexy heroine. I'm also pretty sure a lot of the ideas she has in the series came from her editor (male) and other higher ups that would approve or deny her ideas.

There's also the fact that this is 90s Japan (Japan isn't exactly known for its amazing feminist movement) and that Naoko was basically a newbie mangaka who I doubt would have done anything too radical, or else she probably would have never made it as far as she did.

I think though as the series progressed, she was able to fit in more female empowerment ideas into the story.

And yes, as Addelyn stated, as long as the topic stays on Sailor Moon, it is ok. Smile
Thank you SL for providing us with SM knowledge

So there you have it people: Naoko didn't ever intend for the series to be feminist. She just wanted to make a cool story with an odango-ed heroine.

I think the only feminists who are really well known are western feminists, because they do like to go on social media and whine about so-called "oppression" in forms of air conditioning, "manspreading", "patriarchy" and other things. It's actually very funny to laugh at XD. Tbh, i never really thought of feminism outside the Western world because i guess if there are feminists there they're pretty chilled and ok in the head.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   6th December 2015, 3:56 pm

Well they advocate for women and girls right to be educated and for the end to rape and rape culture in other parts of the world. That is feminism at its best.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   6th December 2015, 4:36 pm

@Halfpixieman wrote:
Well they advocate for women and girls right to be educated and for the end to rape and rape culture in other parts of the world. That is feminism at its best.
Hate to break it to you but there is no "rape culture". If there WAS a rape culture then why would men also be at risk of being raped/sexually assaulted

It's good that they're at least trying to fix some problems in other countries but they haven't really been doing much except for blogging on social media and getting up in arms about silly issues. They also forget that those countries also have human rights issues not just women's issues

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   6th December 2015, 4:47 pm

Mod note

Hey guys.  Please stay on topic of how feminism relates to Sailor Moon.  I know it's super easy to get off topic. 

~Addy

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   7th December 2015, 5:34 pm




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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   7th December 2015, 6:27 pm

^You know, i kinda wanna go look up the credits in that episode and see if the writers were male or female for that particular episode. That is probably one of the best moments of Jadeite's arc of the first season. xD

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   7th December 2015, 7:19 pm

Small Lady wrote:
^You know, i kinda wanna go look up the credits in that episode and see if the writers were male or female for that particular episode. That is probably one of the best moments of Jadeite's arc of the first season. xD
The episodes writer was Sukehiro Tomita

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] Sailor Moon and Feminism   8th December 2015, 10:01 am

Thanks! Oooh look at all the other episodes he wrote on. Those are some of the best ones of that season!

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