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 Outer Senshi

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east02west
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PostSubject: Outer Senshi   Sat 2 May - 16:14

This may have been asked previously and if so,I apologize.

Nevertheless, I am curious as to what we know of the Outer senshi during the the first two arcs of the manga/series. Does anyone have any theories as to why they the more mature of the senshi had not been awoken then?

Mind you, in my mind the awakening of the senshi works out somewhat like the gradual awakening of the digidestined finding their crests in Digimon Adventure.

I have a theory about the gradual development of the plot in Sailor Moon correlating to the restoration of Silver Millennium, but I'll leave that for later.
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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Sat 2 May - 16:50

I haven't read the manga, yet, I'm only on Vol. 1, but what I remember from the 90s anime, Michiru was awakened first as Sailor Neptune. She soon finds Haruka and gives her the Uranus Transformation wand, awakening her. Pluto at the time is still at the gate and Hotaru is a happy child not having awoken yet because they haven't located all three talimans and brought them together yet.
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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Sat 2 May - 23:23

They weren't awakened during the first two arcs because there was no threat from outside the solar system yet (their job is to protect from threats coming outside of the solar system). The Dark Kingdom are technically Earth people, and so were the Black Moon rebels who originated from 30th century Earth. It wasn't until the Death Busters that they encountered legitimate aliens as portrayed in the manga (they were shown leaving their planet in search of a new home).

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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Sat 2 May - 23:25

Weren't they awaken during the 2nd arc just off somewhere else? It seemed that by the time we met them, they had been active for at least a few months.
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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Sat 2 May - 23:29

Well, possibly, but there's the gap between the R and S arc. And the Death Busters didn't immediately make themselves known, so their awakening could still coincide with the Death Busters' arrival during that time gap. In the manga at least they've infiltrated the Mugen Academy for some time because they've been suspicious of the new enemy, but the senshi only became aware of them when the battle really started.

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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Sun 3 May - 2:40

I pretty much agree that Uranus and Neptune awoke sometime between the Black Moon and Infinity arcs. 
It would be nice if one day we could get a canon story about BOTH of their awakenings. *u*

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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Sun 3 May - 5:33

The timing is weird because the Death Busters had to have been on Earth for years since Hotaru was a few years younger when she became "infected" with Mistress 9 compared to when we're introduced to her in the Infinity Arc. I'm guessing Neptune was awakened right around the time the Death Busters started making their move and the Mugen Academy was created. From their back story they went to a different school and I believe they left home to live together in an apartment so they can work in peace. Well, at least in the anime. The manga is done differently in their living situation.

I'd love to know where their parents are.

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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Sun 3 May - 9:09

I think they are both children who have benefactors? It's also not uncommon for parents to pay for a child to have their own apartment in order to go to a better school in Japan either. Or they could be orphans?
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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Sun 3 May - 18:32

What Lust said.

Given that Hotaru's implantation took place well before the rise of the Dark Kingdom and the Black Moon clan, it seems peculiar that the the Outer senshi wouldn't have awoken previously. At least in the case of Neptune and Uranus. 

Who would have provided them with their lip rods?
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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Sun 3 May - 18:48

Their power activating and creating it for them?
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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Sun 3 May - 18:59

Wouldn't Hotaru have been the first to inherit a lip rod then?
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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Sun 3 May - 19:03

No because she wasn't active until the three talismans were brought together and unlocked her powers.
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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Sun 3 May - 19:18

Her powers were active prior to her full awakening as Sailor Saturn.

I may not remember the details in the manga all to well in that regard, but in the anime she definitely displayed her powers as the senshi of Saturn prior to the Purity Chalice coming on the scene (The anime changed the purpose of the three talismans.).

Plot hole?
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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Sun 3 May - 19:21

Maybe Uranus and Neptune were working to undermine the Death Busters, who might have arrived on Earth prior to the Dark Kingdom and Black Moon.


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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Sun 3 May - 19:25

So Chaos was able to occupy three distinct forms simultaneously?!!?

o.O

I'd think that Usagi's awakening as Princess Serenity may have triggered a chain reaction that awakened the Outers, but that still doesn't explain Hotaru since Mistress 9 was implanted within her since her youth. She wasn't what the other Witches were, but something else entirely.
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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Sun 3 May - 19:29

Chaos is chaos. It's everywhere.
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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Sun 3 May - 19:41

But Sailor Chaos was never treated as such an all powerful entity.

Was Pharaoh 90 and Nehelenia an avatar of Chaos or something else entirely?

Likewise, how'd Sailor Chaos manage to be both male and female (Queen Metalia and Wiseman)?
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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Mon 4 May - 2:04

Yes, all big bads are considered incarnations of Chaos.

Chaos is an entity, the source of all darkness and evil, it doesn't have a specific form but many incarnations.

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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Mon 4 May - 8:33

How would that be the case with Nehelenia?

Wasn't Nehelenia corrupted in much the same way Queen Beryl was?

That being the case, wouldn't it imply that this power struggle (Sailor Wars?) goes all the way back to the time of Queen Serenity (Hence their exchange at Usagi's presentation to the kingdom)? I'm not as convinced that Nehelenia is an incarnation of Chaos proper, unless we're to argue that she is the rightful incarnation of Chaos herself. After all, she was able to awaken the Amazoness Quartet which implies some sort of power beyond your average senshi. I will however admit that this is somewhat odd. Why didn't Wiseman awaken them given that they're from the future. How would Nehelenia have had access to the future if she was locked away in the dimension of mirrors during Silver Millenium?

Do both Chaos and Cosmos occupy the Galaxy Cauldron with each force vying for order-disorder within the universe?
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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Mon 4 May - 10:51

I always wondered too, as in the English Dub in the beginning theme, it looks like Neptune at least is in the bubbles along with rest of the inner senshi. I think I saw Uranus too, but I would have to rewatch that just to be sure.
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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Mon 4 May - 11:06

To be fair, the dub's intro is a bit chopped up in that regard, but then again so is the 90s anime's adaptation of the manga.

On the other hand, not even the manga rightly addresses how the were awoken as senshi. 

I always think that Pluto should have played a more pronounced role in the awakening of the Senshi and their respective rebirth. 

Then again, I also want to rewrite the series with it being about Sailor Cosmos and the rest of the senshi actually living on their respective planets.
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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Mon 4 May - 11:08

Basically anything that is evil, or bad, has been touched by chaos. If you've ever seen Avatar Korra, it's kind of like Vaatu. It's the ultimate representation of evil, nd it can effect anyone or anything if you give it a chance.
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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Mon 4 May - 11:20

Well that's the thing though, I remember the bit about Vaatu and Ravaa being in a constant battle with one another. However in keeping with certain Asian mythologies on the subject, it's not so much a matter of good vs. evil, but rather order and disorder, progress and regression etc. As Guardian Cosmos herself said, one day Chaos would be reborn (Hasn't that always been the case?) and the battle would continue anew.

I've argued elsewhere that the series addresses Usagi's "conquest/unification" of the Cosmos in a manner unparalleled (even during Silver Millenium!). Not even the original Queen Serenity accomplished the things that Usagi/Serenity has as Queen.
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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Mon 4 May - 11:45

Honestly, the series should have been rebooted and told from the vantage point of Sailor Cosmos recounting the story of the legendary senshi, Sailor Moon. It would give us a complete back story to the Sailor Wars as well as who she actually is (I posted my own theory elsewhere in the forums.).

I'm aware that plotholes and head canons are a *thing*, however I honestly do believe that some of the gaps in the story are due to series not having been sufficiently planned out. All the senshi to whom we are introduced were given their henshin sticks by Luna and Artemis, however Neptune and Uranus never encounter either one of them. Pluto was not reborn in the period after Silver Millenium (or so we assume?) and was perpetually in the form of senshi at the Door of Time. However we later see her with a lip rod without so much as an explanation for that either.

I'm fine with a backstory ala Digimon Adventure with the Outer Senshi awakening with the full awakening of Usagi as Princess Serenity, but that still doesn't resolve Hotaru's awakening and implantation in the years prior to the Dark Kingdom. It could be argued that we have a similar scenario to that of Sailor V, but even those characters aren't canon, per se.
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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Mon 4 May - 12:19

How is Sailor V not cannon in your eyes?
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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Mon 4 May - 12:29

Because one isn't necessarily obligated to read Sailor V to get the gist of the story within Sailor Moon. After all, Sailor Moon was written in light of Sailor V, not Sailor V in light of Sailor Moon.

The enemies in Sailor V wouldn't be considered extensions of Chaos, right?  Even so, that's the only plausible explanation I have for a parallel back story for Neptune, Uranus, and Pluto in relation to their respective awakenings in the time prior to the Dark Kingdom's ascent to power. However, that doesn't resolve the awakening of the Shitennou, or Queen Beryl either.
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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Mon 4 May - 12:32

Sailor V is actually cannon. It happened and that's what made it cannon.

I really don't think you are understanding what we're getting at. Chaos is the ultimate embodiment of evil. It is what all evil comes from.
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PostSubject: Re: Outer Senshi   Mon 4 May - 12:56

Codename Sailor V may have been written first, but not all facets of the story are reconciled within the Sailor Moon manga. That's why I said that the Sailor V series ins't canon*per se*. If anything, Sailor Moon assumes a lot of the characterization once particular to Sailor V/Minako. Most of the loose ends within the Codename Sailor V manga may have been resolved, but you'll likewise notice that they aren't necessary to the overall plot of Sailor Moon either. It's enough to merely state that strange occurrences occurred throughout Japan without need to include Danburite/Adonis, Princess Lin-Lin etc. In short, Sailor Moon is reboot of Codename Sailor V which does its best to reconcile those loose ends by reconstituting them within the continuity of Sailor Moon. 

I don't doubt Chaos being the force behind all these various disturbances, but I do not think that Chaos is to be understood as a force of evil within the series, but rather as the antithesis of Cosmos (order). Note that Guardian Cosmos says that Chaos cannot be vanquished. I believe it's a great deal more complicated than Cosmos = good whereas Chaos = evil.

If you recall Toph's own statements within Avatar: LoK, you'll notice that she warned Korra against that particular tendency. It's not that her enemies were wrong (per se), but rather it was the means by which they went about to execute those ends which were. 

If you'll notice, Chaos went about creating a anti-Christ figure in the person of Sailor Galaxia complete with a quartet of her own Guardian Senshi and Sapphire Crystal Brooch(We never get an explanation for the Malefic Black Crystal or the origin of the Golden or Sapphire Crystals). Sailor Chaos is prohibited from taking upon a definitive senshi form, because she is the embodiment of disorder. I suspect that Guardian Chaos (Yes, you heard that right) once waged war with Queen Serenity in the very distant past which is why she wages an ongoing battle against Serenity/Cosmos. 

You have to look beyond what we've been given in the series and into the mythologies informing the series itself.
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