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east02west
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PostSubject: The Effects of Reincarnation on the Senshi's Present Day Lives   14th June 2016, 10:20 am

I guess this is a good a time as any to ask whether or not their geneologies are part of their reincarnations as well.

Pluto is cited as the daughter of Kronos, but I suspect that this is more poetic language (and possibly a lack of foresight, given that Sailor Moon came to be extended beyond what it was originally intended to be.), but if that is the case, wouldn't that make her a goddess in the manner that Queen Serenity was cited to have been worshiped as a goddess by the people of Earth in the Dark Kingdom arc? Would that be the case with NQS as well?

I find this very strange, considering that they're not necessarily supposed to be leading identical lives to their past selves, and the fact that they were born mortals in this particular incarnation. 

I'm sure that they have memories of their past lives, and particular abilities associated with it, but I doubt that Rei, a miko would be keen to be worshiped as a goddess from Mars given the tenets of her faith in this particular incarnation (in accord with the cosmology of the series). How exactly do these things get ironed out?
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PostSubject: Re: The Effects of Reincarnation on the Senshi's Present Day Lives   14th June 2016, 6:59 pm

If Pluto is actually the true daughter of Cronos and its not really just like a basis of her powers or something and so she just uses the terminology cause it sounds nice, then I think she could be considered a demi-goddess or godess in some form but since Pluto wasn't supposed to be known she certainly wouldn't have really been worshiped either.

As far as present day goes, from what I've gathered from reading the series, it seems the girls (at least the Inners) have bunches of memories but never anything concrete? Like they remember the important events (the fall of Moon Kingdom for example) but never a whole lot else. Also I think even if they had memories of being respected like Gods in the past, considering that their current reincarnations are just normal human beings they would have no desire for it. Yeah, the memory is there but that's not their life anymore. Their life is in the present.

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PostSubject: Re: The Effects of Reincarnation on the Senshi's Present Day Lives   14th June 2016, 11:34 pm

east02west wrote:
but I doubt that Rei, a miko would be keen to be worshiped as a goddess from Mars given the tenets of her faith in this particular incarnation

I doubt it myself, but it's possible they have no control over that. They're so incredibly powerful that worship is a temptation for normal human beings. So, if they want to worship her, they probably would and she couldn't stop them (same as the rest of the senshi). She could possibly advise against it, even become vocal and angry about it, and dissuade a lot of people, but I doubt she could stop all of them. XD

It could simply be that "goddess" is a classification of "uber-powerful female that we don't understand and we have no better name for".

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PostSubject: Re: The Effects of Reincarnation on the Senshi's Present Day Lives   15th June 2016, 4:08 am

@ Small Lady:

Which is what confused me about the timeline to begin with.

No one was supposed to know about Pluto (Dark Moon Arc), but the Outer senshi all seem to know about each other during Silver Millennium, even if they weren't chummy with each other (Infinity Arc).

I made another post regarding whether or not it was a closed time loop elsewhere, because quite frankly Pluto's back story is strange.

I agree,Pluto in the 20th century isn't the daughter of Kronos of Silver Millennium. She's the daughter of whoever her parents are in the 20th century AD. However, that brings up the question of whether 30th century Pluto and her are the same.

Dark Moon Pluto seemed to have lived through the end of Silver Millennium to the 30th century, however Infinity Pluto died during Silver Millennium, was reborn in the 20th century amongst the rest of the senshi, but knows about the death of her 30th century self?

Does that mean that 30th century Pluto was never revived?

@TS Sailor Cronos:

But we never hear of ChibiUsa speaking of her grandparents or uncle in the manga. I mean,sure,Usagi doesn't have to live with her parents anymore (You'd think at most she'd have them as advisors in the castle...), but they don't seem to be around in the 30th century ChibiUsa is from.

Did Usagi do a collective mind erase of all the people ChibiUsa befriended during her time in the 20th century? O.o

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PostSubject: Re: The Effects of Reincarnation on the Senshi's Present Day Lives   15th June 2016, 6:03 am

The Outers only know about Pluto because they met when their talismans resonated and called forth Saturn.

Pluto in the 20th century is previous Pluto reborn. Infinity Pluto didn't die in SilMil. She died during the Black Moon Arc in Crystal Tokyo and was reborn by NQS.

And honestly, character disappearing is because Naoko had enough to keep track with and probably couldn't be bothered inserting them in later arcs. Naru also disappeared since Black Moon Arc but that didn't mean she died or anything.

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PostSubject: Re: The Effects of Reincarnation on the Senshi's Present Day Lives   15th June 2016, 8:55 am

Sailor Mercury wrote:
The Outers only know about Pluto because they met when their talismans resonated and called forth Saturn.

Pluto in the 20th century is previous Pluto reborn. Infinity Pluto didn't die in SilMil. She died during the Black Moon Arc in Crystal Tokyo and was reborn by NQS.

And honestly, character disappearing is because Naoko had enough to keep track with and probably couldn't be bothered inserting them in later arcs. Naru also disappeared since Black Moon Arc but that didn't mean she died or anything.

Do we ever see any interaction on the part of QS with the Outers during Silver Millennium?

With the exception of the very young Pluto of the Dark Moon arc, we don't really see much in the way of their interactions with them. At most being shown her granting of the Talismans to the Outer Senshi (even if separately) would have been nice. But also, why is Queen Serenity so important and powerful that she can go about granting talismans and creating a guard for a solar system that she's not native to? I don't think that there is an answer to that which really bothers me. She's just powerful, because "reasons". But to return to the subject of the talismans and the Outers, I'd argue that while they weren't formally acquainted with one another, they were at most aware of each others existence. So the Inner senshi may not have known about Pluto (and by extension the other Outers), but the Outers were aware of one another, even if not formally acquainted. I may not recall the manga well regarding the Infinity arc, but I don't recall them being unaware that their talismans combined would be employed to summon the dormant Saturn when need be. They knew of her existence because I think something that important wouldn't be glossed over by QS. They knew of her existence, they just knew that she should never be summoned without due cause.

RE: Pluto

So I take this to mean that she (and perhaps the other Outers with the exception of Hotaru) were "reborn" as fully formed as adults sent to the 20th century, without recollection of their past?

How long were Haruka and Michiru keeping tabs on Hotaru?

Is it possible that there *may* have been an altering of the original timeline which then forced Hotaru to awaken as Saturn, thus demanding the introduction of the Talisman Trio? Maybe Hotaru originally didn't awaken as Saturn?

I think what bothered me about the introduction of the villains from the Tau Star System was that they were from outside our solar system (ie under the jurisdiction of the Outers), but that it didn't trigger a reason for the Outer senshi to awaken/be sent to the 20th century earlier. Hotaru was about 4 or 5 when she was implanted by Mistress 9's egg, all while Usagi and the rest were around 7-10 years old. Fine, perhaps they were a bit young to be awoken as senshi, but perhaps a better explanation recounting how and why such an obvious threat from outside our solar system was allowed to manifest prior to the events of the Dark Kingdom demands some answers. 

Since when do the Outers take on a wait and see approach?

This makes it out to be that Minako awoke before the Outers did, which to me doesn't make much sense.Sure they didn't need to get involved in the events of the Dark Kingdom and Dark Moon arc, but at most give us flashbacks of them keeping tabs on Hotaru from when they awakened as senshi parallel to the Inner senshi awakening. 

But to return back to Pluto, does she still have her 30th century AD crush on Endymion/Mamoru in the present? 

Awkward...

Does that mean that when we finally arrive at the 30th century everything will have been rewritten regarding Pluto's life?

RE: Naru, Ikuko et al.

True, but Ikuko is cited in Stars before all three Mau cats left in her care are killed off by Lethe. Some have read Usagi's farewell to Ikuko as indicative that she doesn't make it (Why didn't Naoko just revert the cats to their humanoid forms? They would have perhaps have stood a better chance, just sayin'...).

On some level, I hold to their past selves ultimately taking precedence over their current incarnations and their drifting away from their natural families.

With the exception of Usagi, Ami, Minako, and Rei, who else really had a family that wasn't deceased?

It's quite dark when you look at it that way. Namely that their natural families were but a means to an end, a means for their previous incarnations to have a way to live out their past lives in the present.
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PostSubject: Re: The Effects of Reincarnation on the Senshi's Present Day Lives   15th June 2016, 8:55 pm

east02west wrote:

@TS Sailor Cronos:

But we never hear of ChibiUsa speaking of her grandparents or uncle in the manga. I mean,sure,Usagi doesn't have to live with her parents anymore (You'd think at most she'd have them as advisors in the castle...), but they don't seem to be around in the 30th century ChibiUsa is from.

Did Usagi do a collective mind erase of all the people ChibiUsa befriended during her time in the 20th century? O.o


Ummm i'm lost. I don't think Cronus mentioned anything about chibiusa in her post before this but just about the whole Rei and goddess thing??  I think you got your topics crossed.

Edit: The moon cats survive. No one will EVER TELL ME OR CONVINCE ME OTHER WISE. There's also that line about their star seeds are special like the Sailor Crystals...soooo.... And once again off topic. xD Please please please lets try not to derail too mcuh from the topic on hand. especially because it could be interesting.

I mean could the girls have like PTSD at some point from a huge wave of memories? or is it always the choppy memories we get miniscule flashbacks of during the series?

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PostSubject: Re: The Effects of Reincarnation on the Senshi's Present Day Lives   15th June 2016, 10:30 pm

Quote :
But we never hear of ChibiUsa speaking of her grandparents or uncle in the manga.

Doesn't mean they're not around. Assuming Usagi/ Serenity has moved on with her life and (perforce) no longer associates with them, that would imply Chibi-Usa has no connection to them, either. When Chibi-Usa first appears in the 20th century, her objective is to save her mother, because it is her life that is in great peril, and she feels she is responsible for her because of her actions.

It would seem they're not around simply because they're not important to the story. Take it from another writer-- you do NOT want to bog down your stories with more characters than you have story for!

At any rate, the manga mentions that Serenity pretty much never left the palace, except for that one time she went looking for Small Lady because she was worried that something was wrong. It seems Serenity never really associated with the people of Crystal Tokyo, and instead watched them from afar, resuming her role from the ancient Silver Millennium. (Ironic, when you consider that she left the Moon Kingdom for the more interesting greenery of the Earth way back then. You'd think she'd get tired of polishing all that crystal in her palace so she can stare at shiny stuff after 900 years. XD)

------------

Quote :
Ummm i'm lost. I don't think Cronus mentioned anything about chibiusa in her post before this but just about the whole Rei and goddess thing??  I think you got your topics crossed.

Wait... I'm lost, too now... @_@

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PostSubject: Re: The Effects of Reincarnation on the Senshi's Present Day Lives   16th June 2016, 11:47 am

@Small Lady:

It seems I did get my topics crossed.

Heh...

Not to get too off-topic, but...

@TS Sailor Cronus and Small Lady:

It would seem that Usagi in assuming the role of Neo-Queen Serenity became a living powerhouse for the entire Earth. The Crystal Palace would thus be a means for her to radiate her life energy (Is it her life energy, or that of the Silver Crystal?) across the globe. However, in the process, it would seem that this rather large Silver Crystal became her prison. But it also makes me think that Usagi is revered as something of a goddess in Crystal Tokyo. That might explain why she can't revert to being Sailor Moon (I wonder if Naoko derived some of her imagery from the Christian Book of Revelation. Hhhmmm...).

That's quite sad when you get to thinking about it. She could never really revert to just being Usagi, because her past self ultimately superseded her present incarnation (<<< I guess that gets me back on topic. X-D). Sure she's still fun loving and bubbly Usagi personality wise, but NQS is also immortal Moon matriarch, guardian of Earth and the Milky Way galaxy.

I don't think that they ever came to fully recover all of their memories because it would be too much for them to bear. If Usagi and Hotaru were observed to have an identity crisis regarding who they really are (Hotaru's is implied in Dreams), just imagine if they were flooded with all of their memories from their past lives. o.O
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PostSubject: Re: The Effects of Reincarnation on the Senshi's Present Day Lives   16th June 2016, 12:39 pm

I agree eastweast, I think it's rather scarring that reincarnation does not keep the girls from living on their new lives. This is something that I partially love about the Classics, in which, they focused on Usagi's denial to being Sailor Moon. I remember watching the first episode of R where her memory was restored, and whilst it could've been further elaborated (they didn't), I think it made great sense as to how Usagi might feel about being made to fight against evil. I mean, she's not Princess Serenity, she's just a 14 year old girl now, and yet she has to bear the future of the world in her back because she has to. 

This wasn't quite explored in the manga, though it is briefly shown, regarding Usagi's identity crisis. Both manga and Crystal shows her questioning whether she was still Usagi, or has she become Princess Serenity completely. What's beautiful about that scene is that her friends helped her know that she's no longer the Princess, but is now just Usagi Tsukino, who's allowed to be her own person. They made her understand that although her body is suffering from the effects of regaining her past live's memory, she will still be Usagi no matter what, because she was reborn on Earth as a new person for a reason. 

Also, regarding them living their past lives, I think throughout the years they were living as their incarnations, they managed to create a whole new person behind it. Sure, they still have a duty to their Princess as past lives Senshis, but it's also quite evident that they each have something their new selves want to achieve, so I think that at some point, their present day incarnation realised that their duty is more important than their own dreams (i.e Sailor V accepting Codename Sailor V that she will never find love because she has someone to protect). Again, this idea is really sad, and was only truly explored in different versions of Sailor Moon (PGSM did one on Minako). But deep down, the girls' feelings for their Princess transcended beyond time and space, so they've chosen to keep their duty rather than abandon it. Plus, had it not been for Usagi, they would never have met.
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PostSubject: Re: The Effects of Reincarnation on the Senshi's Present Day Lives   16th June 2016, 3:39 pm

@Neo King Kronos:

But that's the thing, Usagi is no longer a Princess, she is the daughter of Ikuko and Kenji Tsukino (Convenient surname for the reincarnated princess of the Moon. Razz), and has a brother named Sammy. She always had a choice as to whether she continued on as Sailor Moon or not, and that would likewise extend to her assuming the role of Princess Serenity. I could see her remaining Sailor Moon out of a sense of duty and obligation to the world, but why become Neo Queen Serenity? 

I think that's something which has always bothered me about her ascent as sovereign of the world. Does she become queen as Usagi Tsukino, champion of love and justice whom the world has come to recognize, or does she become queen to live out the life that Princess Serenity of Silver Millennium never had the opportunity to lead (I really wish that both Usagi and Princess Serenity looked different from one another, as well as the senshi in their past lives...)?

Sailor Moon Classic handled it well when it introduced the Rainbow Crystals and the movie special which featured human Luna posing as Princess Snow Kaguya. Both Classic and that movie alluded to all the people of the Earth once having been subject of Silver Millennium who were reincarnated on Earth (I wonder what it would have been like had Princess Kaguya been identified as a legend written of Princess Serenity that managed to be recorded and survive into the present.). That being the case, it makes sense that Usagi would have no problem resuming her role as sovereign of the world with Endymion, given that the peoples of the Earth would recognize who she was reincarnated as.

While I'm not formally acquainted with the Parallel Sailor Moon comic, from what I've heard of it, it seems to address what Usagi's life would be like had she not chosen to go on to be Neo Queen Serenity, but remained a civilian with a dual identity along with her Inner senshi. I sincerely believe that this would have been a more sincere approach as opposed to the duty and obligation of protecting the princess, because it would be based more in their current lives and not those of Silver Millennium, but alas what's done is done. Still, it would have been nice to see Usagi and the rest of them learning from their past selves, and not basically leading those past lives anew (ie. Usagi not being the most graceful, but learning to be a proper lady from Princess Serenity.).
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PostSubject: Re: The Effects of Reincarnation on the Senshi's Present Day Lives   16th June 2016, 7:31 pm

I had a theory that the way she became queen had to do with some kind of new battle that made her use the Silver Crystal to such an extent that she created Crystal Tokyo and protected the earth/ Japan in such a decisive manner that nobody would allow her NOT to be queen. Before I had read Stars, I was hoping for that explanation, but it never really came up. I mean, the battle at the Cauldron would seem to be the inciting moment, the definitive hey-she-just-saved-the-entire-universe-now-we-owe-her-huge moment, but hardly anybody from Earth was witness to that, so unless she returned and started bragging about it and uploaded videos of her adventures on YouTube, nobody on Earth knows or will recognize such great importance from her.

So we see that she is coronated at the very end of Stars and on the day of her wedding, but we get nothing in between the battle at the Cauldron and that point. :/

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PostSubject: Re: The Effects of Reincarnation on the Senshi's Present Day Lives   17th June 2016, 5:08 am

I know,right?

I would have expected something akin to what we see in Digimon where the whole world is privy to the battle of the Sailor senshi and Shadow Galactica/Chaos. It would be the ultimate big reveal amongst friends and family of Usagi the grand cry baby as champion and defender of the galaxy. That would have made for some touching if not humorous panels in the manga. After the battle an encounter with her parents wherein they realize that she's no longer just Usagi, but destined to be sovereign of the world (Luna would then introduce herself to which Ikuko would faint, and Kenji would chuckle and remark that he knew that he'd always heard more than one voice coming from Usagi's room.).

As to Usagi's wedding, I was told elsewhere that she married at 16, immediately after the events of the Galaxy Cauldron, but please do tell. Are you saying that around six years have gone  by since those events and that Usagi is actually 22 years old when she's married? I cite 22 years old specifically, as I seem to recall it being the age it was previously cited within the manga that Usagi was crowned Queen.

This brings me to another question, who crowned Usagi? I highly doubt that a priest of a Christian church, a Buddhist priest (I'm just citing them in the context of faiths we see into the present within Japan.), etc. were the one's to officiate at that wedding-coronation. I would assume that Helios would be the one to wed-crown Mamoru and Usagi because he's cited as the priest of Elysium in the manga within Dreams.

I mean it is somewhat weird that Helios is the priest and that Usagi is pregnant (Let's be real...) with his future wife at the wedding.


This is totally unrelated, but I wonder if Crystal Tokyo is anything like the world of W.I.T.C.H.

Elyon sits as sovereign of Kandrakar (having a deity-esque role), with Wilhemina and the rest of her soldiers wielding the Heart of Kandrakar whereby they protect Kandrakar from outside forces. Perhaps ChibiUsa is Wilhemina in the Sailor Moon universe?
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PostSubject: Re: The Effects of Reincarnation on the Senshi's Present Day Lives   17th June 2016, 6:40 am

In the manga, Queen Serenity is revered to as Selene but she isn't actually a goddess. Not that is says really.

Artemis makes a mention that Minako is becoming more like the Goddess of Love and Beauty.

I imagine they were titles that people of earth have and it stuck with them.

What is a goddess? It's not the same in every lore, except for one thing. They are viewed as more advanced and or powerful. That's really all it means at it's basic level.

If we were to take cues from the Sailor Moon Another Story game, then the inner senshi went to earth like Serenity and they too were worshipped like gods.

As far as I am aware, the outers never met one another, until their talisemens transported them to show them Saturn was awakening. (The talismans do not wake Saturn, she wakes on her own. The talismens are simply a warning of the disaster to come from it.)

Pluto of the past, went back to her post. I believe Uranus and Neptune followed Saturn and were killed.

This is why Uranus and Neptune were reborn, I believe.

Pluto was reborn after she had lived through the beginning and the fall of the Silver Millennium, through the present day and into the future of Crystal Tokyo until she leaves a second time and is killed.

Unless Neptune and Uranus were transported directly to the Time Gates and Pluto had never left at that time.... curiously this could mean something about whether or not Uranus and Neptune were privy about Saturn's second awakening before they were reborn but they woke up late again.

It is mentioned that the outers woke up to their senshi abilities too late to stop Pharaoh 90. They did not wake up as senshi during classic or R. The events of Pharoh 90 starting occuring before Classic even took place, when Hotaru was a small child.

Neo Queen Serenity has retained a little of Usagi's persona, according to letter a she sent back to the past. I'm not really surprised they are the same person because Usagi doesn't die and reincarnate into the Queen, she just lived a VERY long time.

As for their past lives, I don't think they are exactly the same people. In the manga they even look physically different from the Princess being more pale, with different hair color and the senshi even have different hair and eye colors too.

I feel like the only reason they recall their past is due to them being reincarnated specially.

Queen Serenity had made them specifically reincarnate on the Earth, together and it didn't seem like a real or full cycle through to the galaxy cauldron.

Queen Serenity may have even chosen specific people to become the family of the senshi, helping pick those last names.

Unlike the musicals, where the senshi were reborn on earth many many times over, the manga and the classic anime made it seem like they were born looking after the past and only in the present day.

So each one does reincarnation with their own twist it seems.

I have to go back into the stars manga, because I recall it saying that every living thing lives, and then dies and goes to the cauldron to be recylced in the process of reincarnation. 

Regardless of what kind of star seed, and I remmeber it saying every living thing contains a star seed.

Special star seeds and Sailor Crystals are special due to power and healing and things chibi that. 

Kakyuu explained that Luna and Artemis don't have Sailor Crystals but that their star seeds were different/special.

If I recall correctly, the starlights mention this, Kakyuu mentions this, Lethe and her sister mention this and then later it is mentioned again a couple times briefly. 

One panel that was curious, was when Galaxia stole Mamoru's "sailor crystal/golden crystal" the actual crystal dissipated and became that diamond shape star seed we got used to.

I wonder what the significance of that was. Was the star seed his current persona, and the crystal, his earthly connected powers? 

As for the wedding, they got married when Usagi was 21. Years after Stars.

This is known because she is pregnant at the time of the wedding.

Usagi also gives birth to Chibiusa and takes the crown shortly after, when she is 22.

She turns 22 the same day Chibiusa is born. They share the same birthday.

I don't know how the ceremony went, I don't think it really matters much, but there is a cathedral behind them and they aren't having so much of a tradtional Japanese wedding, as they are a westernized one.
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PostSubject: Re: The Effects of Reincarnation on the Senshi's Present Day Lives   17th June 2016, 10:25 am

@Luna Love:

Quote :
In the manga, Queen Serenity is revered to as Selene but she isn't actually a goddess. Not that is says really.

Artemis makes a mention that Minako is becoming more like the Goddess of Love and Beauty.

I imagine they were titles that people of earth have and it stuck with them.

What is a goddess? It's not the same in every lore, except for one thing. They are viewed as more advanced and or powerful. That's really all it means at it's basic level.

If we were to take cues from the Sailor Moon Another Story game, then the inner senshi went to earth like Serenity and they too were worshipped like gods.



I'll grant the use of god and goddess varies in meaning, but whatever quantifier one might use, the beings in question are immortal and non-human. Queen Serenity had something of an active role in the affairs of humanity which leads me to suspect that she did assume a role akin to a goddess, granting the people of the Earth their desires via the agency of the Silver Crystal. Usagi seems to be in the same position in Crystal Tokyo where she acts as something of a powerhouse for the needs of mankind which is why she doesn't leave the palace.

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As far as I am aware, the outers never met one another, until their talisemens transported them to show them Saturn was awakening. (The talismans do not wake Saturn, she wakes on her own. The talismens are simply a warning of the disaster to come from it.)



I'm not so sure that it's mutually exclusive.

Sure they warn them of Saturn's awakening, but what's the point of them needing to come together when she awakens? It's not as if they help her end the world, or that they need to be gathered together so that she can take them out with her. The talismans react because each of the Outer senshi represent the building blocks of creation (the heavens (Uranus), the primordial waters (Neptune), time and space (Pluto), but outside of the Greco-Roman system, we have to contend with the Japanese mythology of the talismans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Regalia_of_Japan) and Saturn's Silence Glaive (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amenonuhoko). Saturn guards the beginning and end of life in the cosmos (Hence her orrery in dreams.). (<<<@TS Sailor Cronus: This may be of interest to you.)

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Pluto of the past, went back to her post. I believe Uranus and Neptune followed Saturn and were killed.

This is why Uranus and Neptune were reborn, I believe.

Pluto was reborn after she had lived through the beginning and the fall of the Silver Millennium, through the present day and into the future of Crystal Tokyo until she leaves a second time and is killed.

Unless Neptune and Uranus were transported directly to the Time Gates and Pluto had never left at that time.... curiously this could mean something about whether or not Uranus and Neptune were privy about Saturn's second awakening before they were reborn but they woke up late again.

It is mentioned that the outers woke up to their senshi abilities too late to stop Pharaoh 90. They did not wake up as senshi during classic or R. The events of Pharoh 90 starting occuring before Classic even took place, when Hotaru was a small child.



One problem, that would mean that Pluto is privy to the details of a distinct timeline where she wasn't reborn in the 20th century and managed to make it to the 30th century without ever having died, or needing to leave her post. She had enough difficulty deciding to leave her post in the Dark Moon arc, I can't imagine her just willy nilly leaving it to travel to the 20th century if the events of the Infinity arc had transpired as they did. Perhaps in that timeline Uranus and Neptune killed Hotaru, or Usagi managed to power up to Super Sailor Moon in some way shape or form sans the agency of ChibiUsa introducing the Holy Grail.

I don't get how the Outers (or at most Neptune and Uranus) could awaken after the Inner senshi. At most introduce some flashback where they were awoken by Usagi's Silver Crystal reveal in the Dark Kingdom arc, but to make it out that they awoke only after the events of the Dark Moon arc seems a really poor excuse. It makes it seem as if ChibiUsa's time travel forced other changes in the past (@TS Sailor Cronus: This overlaps with your theory on the other thread.).

Wouldn't that huge burst of Silver Crystal energy have caused Pharaoh 90 and Mistress 9 to react?

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Neo Queen Serenity has retained a little of Usagi's persona, according to letter a she sent back to the past. I'm not really surprised they are the same person because Usagi doesn't die and reincarnate into the Queen, she just lived a VERY long time.

As for their past lives, I don't think they are exactly the same people. In the manga they even look physically different from the Princess being more pale, with different hair color and the senshi even have different hair and eye colors too.


Serenity still supersedes Usagi's current life. Usagi ends up living out the life that her previous incarnation was unable to live out, as opposed to leading a life as Sailor Moon solely. Note that at the end of the Dark Kingdom Arc, Usagi wills to live out the rest of her days not as sovereign of the Moon Kingdom, but as Sailor Moon, defender of the Earth. The Dark Moon arc on the other hand, forces her hand to elect to go on to be Neo Queen Serenity (@TS Sailor Cronus: I'm beginning to see where your theory from the Kodansha translation comes into play.). Perhaps in this particular timeline Usagi's decision was the one saving grace which allowed ChibiUsa to seek out Usagi's aid to save the future she was from. What in turn happened was that the Usagi of this particular timeline came to elect to be NQS after the events of the Dark Moon arc. That might actually explain the change in colour of NQS's hair in Crystal. The Dark Moon clan in having travelled to the past (after having followed ChibiUsa) rewrote the future that ChibiUsa was from. As such, those events never happened in the now re-written future, but rather are part of a future that could be remembered solely by Usagi, ChibiUsa, Mamoru, and co. in the present. It was a future that came to be averted by the power of Sailor Moon.

I don't think that we're ever shown the senshi in the past. They all seem to look near identical (Oh how I wish the design for the Amazon Quartet would have been the appearance of the Inner senshi during Silver Millenium!) to their present incarnations from what we can infer from the past. Pearlescent white haired Princess Serenity is an immortal like Queen Serenity generated of her will. The odango hair style bothers me though... It was SO obvious in the flashbacks that Usagi was the princess based on that alone.

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I feel like the only reason they recall their past is due to them being reincarnated specially.

Queen Serenity had made them specifically reincarnate on the Earth, together and it didn't seem like a real or full cycle through to the galaxy cauldron.

Queen Serenity may have even chosen specific people to become the family of the senshi, helping pick those last names.

Unlike the musicals, where the senshi were reborn on earth many many times over, the manga and the classic anime made it seem like they were born looking after the past and only in the present day.



Which makes me suspect that it was a continuity error. I don't think that Naoko wrote the Dark Kingdom - Infinity Arc with the Galaxy Cauldron in mind. We gets hints of it coming to be in seed form within the Dreams Arc (Which may have not gone that way originally?) which introduces Mamoru's Golden Crystal and the potentially implied reconstitution and reincarnation of the Shitennou as the Amazon Quartet (They (AQ) didn't exist during Silver Millennium. But this also begs the question, how could Nehelenia come to be aware of them when they didn't exist in the past? Did she too travel to the future? Maybe NQS should consider replacing Pluto and disciplining ChibiUsa...).

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As for the wedding, they got married when Usagi was 21. Years after Stars.

This is known because she is pregnant at the time of the wedding.

Usagi also gives birth to Chibiusa and takes the crown shortly after, when she is 22.

She turns 22 the same day Chibiusa is born. They share the same birthday.

I don't know how the ceremony went, I don't think it really matters much, but there is a cathedral behind them and they aren't having so much of a tradtional Japanese wedding, as they are a westernized one.


We can really only speculate on the basis of what we've been informed of within the manga regarding Usagi being crowned at 22. 

It's heavily implied that Usagi is pregnant when she gets married.

As to the cathedral, my friend informed me that in Japan it's trendy to have Western-style weddings for the sake of aesthetics, not out of adherence to a faith like Christianity. I don't have the link he sent me on hand, but apparently it's a real trend.


Last edited by east02west on 17th June 2016, 11:07 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Formatting and additional information)
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PostSubject: Re: The Effects of Reincarnation on the Senshi's Present Day Lives   17th June 2016, 11:58 am

In response to east02west:

Spoiler:
 

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Edit: I have more to add now.

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In response to Luna Love:

Spoiler:
 

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In response to east02west:

Spoiler:
 


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PostSubject: Re: The Effects of Reincarnation on the Senshi's Present Day Lives   19th June 2016, 6:47 pm

This is partially inspired by either a role-play or a fan-fiction, I forgot which. But, I personally love the idea that long, long ago an early incarnation of the sailor senshi were the Greek or Roman goddesses of old and/or were the inspiration for those mythologies.

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PostSubject: Re: The Effects of Reincarnation on the Senshi's Present Day Lives   19th June 2016, 7:13 pm

Serenity's white hair and super pale skin, venus's golden eyes, Rei's red eyes. In various artwork that was either just for fluff or a large poster of the characters showcasing the saga. Each season had one to show the characters colors, and they got more detailed and ornate as the season's passed.

edit: I also forgot to mention, there is also visual difference in plutos appearence when she is reborn in infinity

@Luna. I am a big believer that they inspired the godly/goddess myths around the world too. I read somewhere that the theory even inspired the lore they added to some of the Sailor Moon Another Story game plot. I heard it was also a bit of a hat off to ancient alien theory. Funny since this is the only plot that I can recall the girls actually use a space ship
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PostSubject: Re: The Effects of Reincarnation on the Senshi's Present Day Lives   24th June 2016, 6:53 pm

There's a LOT of plot holes and continuity error because of course, Naoko had only planned to write the series up to a certain point. 

Usagi was indeed married, crowned, and had ChibiUsa around the age of 22. 
The wedding/coronation is the last bit of the manga with EVERYONE there. Even Luna, Artemis and Diana in their human forms. <3

My guess is something major had happened and Usagi had to assume power, and use the ginzushou to keep Tokyo safe... or just.... possibly evolution of some sort.
My guess is Usagi's earth family are still alive and well with the rest of the residents of CT and also have been blessed with longer lives from the crystal. 

The only person who can set things straight is Naoko.... but that's unlikely to happen.

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PostSubject: Re: The Effects of Reincarnation on the Senshi's Present Day Lives   24th June 2016, 6:58 pm

Hey guys i think this has gotten off topic lets please steer back to the original topic, which is the effects of the girls past lives on them. Thank you!

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PostSubject: Re: The Effects of Reincarnation on the Senshi's Present Day Lives   24th June 2016, 7:06 pm

As for the senshi's past lives....
As said by others, they only remember so much.  Which, I think is a good thing. I mean, it's traumatizing enough knowing you were killed in a previous life, and have died numerous times since. 

I think all they're aware of is the fact that they were Princess' of their respective planets, and chosen to protect the Princess Serenity and obviously the fall of Silver Millennium.... and as of Crystal. their relationships with the shitennou.

I'm honestly suprised none of them have PTSD.

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