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 [Spoilers] Incarnations of Chaos

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PostSubject: [Spoilers] Incarnations of Chaos   Tue 27 Sep 2016 - 13:06

So Queen Metaria, Death Phantom, Pharaoh 90, and Queen Nehellenia are all described in Stars as incarnations of Chaos. What do you think that term actually means or implies? Does it mean they are children of Chaos; avatars of it; they were all forms that Chaos took; etc? Incarnation seems like a term that is open to interpretation, so what are your thoughts as to how these Big Bads are related to the Biggest Bad in Sailor Moon.

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PostSubject: Re: [Spoilers] Incarnations of Chaos   Tue 27 Sep 2016 - 14:27

It always seemed to me that it meant they were forms Chaos took, or maybe parts of it's essence.

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PostSubject: Re: [Spoilers] Incarnations of Chaos   Tue 27 Sep 2016 - 14:59

I don't think they were chaos outright, but chaos probably had something to do with each of them-perhaps a small influence.

The way I always looked at it is Chaos is this big bad somewhat immortal entity (because of the entire light cannot exist without darkness thing) and was sorta the living form of any and all bad actions. For those with the worst actions, he was kinda able to watch as each arc/battle played out in the same way beryl was able to spy on earth though her crystal ball in the 90s anime-only he didn't have the ball.

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PostSubject: Re: [Spoilers] Incarnations of Chaos   Tue 27 Sep 2016 - 15:31

In french, le Diable incarné who goes with "cet homme est le diable incarné" meaning "this man is the devil incarnate (d?)" is generally used to define someone who is particularly evil, but not as if Lucifer suddenly went "why not" and became them.

I think it's the same in english, so I don't know if incarnations of Chaos means it's Chaos himself just plopping down to say hi.

Then again, we are basing this on a translation that might or might not follow the true idea the original author had, but when I see the big bosses: Metallia, Pharaoh 90, etc, I don't think it's Chaos. They're from Chaos I guess, but I think they're separate, although evil.

Chaos probably had influence over the baddies, but I mostly took the incarnations of chaos as a metaphor to say they are evil sources.

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PostSubject: Re: [Spoilers] Incarnations of Chaos   Tue 27 Sep 2016 - 16:37

Personally, I don't consider Chaos to be an entity. I think of Chaos as an abstract concept. In this way, I consider Metallia, Death Phantom, Pharaoh 90, Nehellenia, and even the "Chaos" that corrupts Galaxia to be "great forms of evil" that draw upon the concept of Chaos. I don't think they are actually Chaos. I don't think Chaos is watching and scheming out there somewhere. I think of Chaos instead as a necessary element of existence, mostly based on the whole "it cannot be destroyed" notes from Sailor Moon. That's my take on it.
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PostSubject: Re: [Spoilers] Incarnations of Chaos   Tue 27 Sep 2016 - 19:34

I second what Aurae says. Chaos at the end of stars is more of an abstract being that manages to manifest itself enough to communicate with mortal beings. I believe that eventually Chaos finds a way to become Sailor Chaos and is who causes the Sailor War that Sailor Cosmos seems to have come from fighting in. In the manga, there is even a shot of Sailor Chaos when Cosmos is explaining who she is.

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PostSubject: Re: [Spoilers] Incarnations of Chaos   Tue 27 Sep 2016 - 19:46

I got the impression that Chaos is suppose to be the source of all evil. So it is literally the source of evil for Sailor Moon where all evil originates from, and that's what it meant that the others are incarnations of it. They don't physically come from Chaos, but evil exists in the Sailor Moon universe because Chaos exists, and it is as inevitable as the Galaxy Cauldron, where new life is born.
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PostSubject: Re: [Spoilers] Incarnations of Chaos   Wed 28 Sep 2016 - 1:11

I'm gonna grossly oversimplify this, but...

Chaos = Satan.
Sailor Moon = Jesus.


Not that it's a reflection if Takeuchi's personal spititual beliegs or anythimg/ but I think that's what she was going for in the story.


The "Messiah", the most powerful "light," invincible, most powerful Senshi in the universe, owns the Holy Grail, purest heart, forgives everyone easily, becomes Queen of the world, Cosmos/ Moon/ Chibi Chibi= Father, Son, Holy Ghost, etc. And think if how many times Sailor Jesus sacrificed herself to save the world or ressurrected the dead. 

(Also, do the math: the coming of the "Messiah" happens 7 yeats before her millenial reign. PS: I dare you to tell me who Princess Serenity's father is.)

So it boils down to Chaos = influence, not physical manefestations og all those enemies.

[Edit: Forgive me, but no matter how many times I edit this post I cant fix the wonky formatting. ]

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PostSubject: Re: [Spoilers] Incarnations of Chaos   Mon 3 Oct 2016 - 2:18

I think of the various enemies Sailor Moon faced as splinters of Chaos. Much like how one can take a branch from a tree, plant it, and it grows into a new tree, this is how Chaos is able to "propagate" itself. By the same line of thought, all of these enemies are, in a way, "clones" of Chaos that were sent out across the galaxy. Due to different circumstances such as how, where, and when they were born, each developed a unique persona, be it the disembodied forms of Metallia or Pharaoh 90, or the beautiful Queen Nehellenia. Even so, their objective remains the same: the light of the Silver Crystal. That strong, instinctive desire for the Silver Crystal units them despite their different appearances and backgrounds.

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PostSubject: Re: [Spoilers] Incarnations of Chaos   Wed 28 Dec 2016 - 23:15

Mangaka-chan, I love how you describe it and that's totally been my assumption since I first read the Stars manga! I was so jazzed that Takeuchi-san tied the big bass together in the end.

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PostSubject: Re: [Spoilers] Incarnations of Chaos   Sat 31 Dec 2016 - 11:36

I see Chaos as evil in its truest form, but necessary for true good to exist. I also think of it as more of an all consuming energy, rather than a physical being. We have the "villains" (because really, who the villain is depends on what side of the coin you stand on) who have absorbed or who have been consumed by that energy, and therefore are driven to fight for its cause.

I also really liked how Mangaka-chan described it!

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