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 [Debate] 90s SM Anime- Where was Sailor Pluto?

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Ktenshi
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PostSubject: [Debate] 90s SM Anime- Where was Sailor Pluto?   7th May 2018, 12:31 am

Kinda a random pondering- but rethinking over the 90s Anime of Sailor Moon, I've always pondered where was Sailor Pluto during the first half of the Super arc when Haruka and Michiru were on their own looking for the Tailsmans?

This mostly came because of one of the thoughts I had about how different the 90s anime and Manga (as well as SMC) differ on her fate after R arc. 

Like, where was she when they were searching? I don't think she ever said?  Did she?  

Any thoughts?  I've got like, none for once, lol.
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] 90s SM Anime- Where was Sailor Pluto?   7th May 2018, 3:14 am

Hm, that's actually a good question. As far as I know it's never really stated; not in the manga, the anime or Crystal. All canons seem to suggest that she is reincarnated into Setsuna Meioh the astrophysicist and when she enters the S arc she always has foreknowledge of Usagi and all the senshi. Really it doesn't tell us anything about where she was but gives a hint that she may have been investigating the Messiah herself, what that can mean we just don't know.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] 90s SM Anime- Where was Sailor Pluto?   7th May 2018, 3:47 am

May be she can't come before because of de time's door... Pluto is very mysterious, we don't know lot's of things about her...

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] 90s SM Anime- Where was Sailor Pluto?   7th May 2018, 10:31 am

@chrissifniotis wrote:
All canons seem to suggest that she is reincarnated into Setsuna Meioh the astrophysicist and when she enters the S arc she always has foreknowledge of Usagi and all the senshi.

In the OG anime, she is not a reincarnation at this point, from what I can tell, because in the R season, Pluto never dies (unlike in the manga Black Moon Arc.) Her death, however, is moved towards the end of the S season. If I am remembering what Pluto says in the anime correctly, she does mention NQS allowing her to be able to go to the past. I'll have to pull up the episode where this happens at some point to verify.

It seems to me that NQS gave Pluto a reprieve from the Space-Time door and allowed her to go back to the past (or the present for viewers of the show) in order to assure the talismans come together to awaken Super Sailor Moon. Nothing in canon itself really clarifies this but it's my take based on the context of the OG anime's canon.

Now what was she doing? I guess it depends on how far back she goes into the past. My guess is, she actually hadn't been around for very long before Chibi-usa caught sight of her in the crowd. Maybe a few weeks at most, possibly setting up her civilian alias and base for herself?

Now the real question for me is how the heck does she come back in the anime after her death in S? but thats a discussion for another thread. ;D

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] 90s SM Anime- Where was Sailor Pluto?   8th May 2018, 12:20 am

@Brit-chan wrote:
@chrissifniotis wrote:
All canons seem to suggest that she is reincarnated into Setsuna Meioh the astrophysicist and when she enters the S arc she always has foreknowledge of Usagi and all the senshi.

In the OG anime, she is not a reincarnation at this point, from what I can tell, because in the R season, Pluto never dies (unlike in the manga Black Moon Arc.) Her death, however, is moved towards the end of the S season. If I am remembering what Pluto says in the anime correctly, she does mention NQS allowing her to be able to go to the past. I'll have to pull up the episode where this happens at some point to verify.

...
Oh yeah. how did I forget that?

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] 90s SM Anime- Where was Sailor Pluto?   8th May 2018, 2:44 am

I've kinda went back to rewatch some of the episodes with her introduction and exit in Super (both in old Sub/old dub, and Viz sub), and it basically has nothing.  She just appeared, gave no explanation as to how she appeared, just that she's there.   After she dies, she indicates she no longer has a physical body/exists on that plane. 

It kinda makes me wonder if she really -was- in the past or if it was a construct of her body projected in the past while her real form is still in the future?   (lol I'm getting complicated. xD; )

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] 90s SM Anime- Where was Sailor Pluto?   8th May 2018, 7:07 am

@Ktenshi wrote:
I've kinda went back to rewatch some of the episodes with her introduction and exit in Super (both in old Sub/old dub, and Viz sub), and it basically has nothing.  She just appeared, gave no explanation as to how she appeared, just that she's there.   After she dies, she indicates she no longer has a physical body/exists on that plane. 

It kinda makes me wonder if she really -was- in the past or if it was a construct of her body projected in the past while her real form is still in the future?   (lol I'm getting complicated. xD; )

Huh...that's kind of an interesting theory. It would also explain how she just shows back up for Stars and steals away baby Hotaru AND how she is able to show up in the SuperS movie. XD

So she doesn't even mention anything about NQS allowing her to go to the past? Wow. I must be mixing manga and anime memories haha.

I think the real explanation here is that the anime staff probably wasn't sure how Pluto was going to play it out in that season and considering they also knew that the manga version of the previous season had been so different in regards to her, they just weren't quite sure what to do with her. So...just have her show up out of the blue and now at least she's there. Who needs explanations? This is a kids show!

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] 90s SM Anime- Where was Sailor Pluto?   8th May 2018, 9:15 am

It's not for children normally^^

 i think we haven't information on pluton in the anime or the manga so there are lots of mysteries with her. They may be chose the ease and don't explain her apparition... but they didn't know there is fan with lots of question
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] 90s SM Anime- Where was Sailor Pluto?   8th May 2018, 1:18 pm

@emrys wrote:
It's not for children normally^^

You have clearly not seen any of the Japanese commercials from the 90s! XD Sailor Moon was most definitely a kids show, demographically geared towards like 6 and up, boys and girl. BUT that's not the topic here.


It think its just one of those things that happens often in kids cartoons, where some stuff is just not explained for XYZ reason. Sometimes its cause it's too complicated and won't fit with the overall story or they just think it's plain not necessary. I think Pluto's background for this season of the anime is not that important to the story so they didn't really bother coming up with an actual explanation.

Either way...I kinda like @Ktenshi's explanation just cause it makes other unexplained things about her make more sense. Even if it feels kind of cheap. xD

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] 90s SM Anime- Where was Sailor Pluto?   8th May 2018, 1:29 pm

This is something I have often thought about, because our general knowledge (ingrained in our brains from the manga) is that she is reincarnated into Setsuna - which was said above, but this isn't mentioned at all in the anime. Maybe because she didn't die in the 90s anime, it was just continuity as she was alive at the end of the R arc. In that case, there would be no need to explain her re-appearance, as she just appeared to stop Eudial.

The same can sort of be said for the Star arc. If Neo Queen Serenity revived her during the end of S, that would explain how she was able to Astro project, if she was at the Space time door instead of on Earth. Just a theory.

Then again, it's the 90s anime and plot holes were everywhere now that I"m looking back. LOL

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] 90s SM Anime- Where was Sailor Pluto?   8th May 2018, 1:40 pm

My take on it, and this is mostly opinion, is that Pluto so much enjoyed the little time she had with Small Lady and the others during the time travel in R that she used the Messiah prophecy as an excuse to travel to the 20th century and spend more time among other sailor soldiers. She spends so much of the S season just randomly popping up in places at exactly the right moment. It's almost like she's stalking them. ;D
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] 90s SM Anime- Where was Sailor Pluto?   9th May 2018, 2:20 am

There's a lot of interesting ideas here; this really is the problem with writing time travel, like in any writing to keep everything consistent have to fully plan out the exact timeline of how everything is meant to go. I've always felt that the original anime had problems writing time.

@Ktenshi That's rather a unique theory. A 3D projection of herself traveling backwards in time? It would have to be a projection capable of generating a real and observable force since Pluto's projection can attack and influence the past. You know, now I wonder if the presence of Sailor Pluto is entangled with the presence of Luna P, like one causing the other.

@Sailor Mercury I do like the idea of her being sentimental about the past, to me she seems like the kind of person who reflects a lot, but I don't think that's the primary reason. She's like the other outer senshi and is far too focused on the bigger picture. It's a cool idea anyway though.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] 90s SM Anime- Where was Sailor Pluto?   9th May 2018, 4:07 pm

@Chrissifniotis

See I based this theory on how King Endymion in the latter half of R worked.  he's essentially a hologram/astro projection yet he can use the controls and effect things even as a hologram that's not really there. (really he's projecting his spirit like a ghost.  In the 90s Anime, they, surprisingly enough, gave previous evidence that  Mamoru *can* project a realistic solid-like form from his own deep desire to protect Usagi.    And then he does this again as King Endymion but less solid looking. )

So, I figure with the above, maybe that's how Pluto could also function.  There's a lot in both canons that shown that a physical body isn't technically necessary in order to act and change things in an environment. 

like, for instance, Q. Serenity's spirit does the same thing in the 90s anime- twice.   Once when they went to the moon (it seems they were summoned there)  and she explained the past and once more at the beginning of the second season giving Usagi her new items.  Also, Saturn does it as well.   (in fact, I think she's a pre-cursor to StarS and the discussion of Sailor Crystals, but that's another story and thread.)

So, I think,  Pluto might've been able to do it.  She's the senshi of time, so that should afford her some other special abilities and since the whole projection thing is a semi-known ability that some people can have and use, it's not that far of an idea that Pluto can do it.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] 90s SM Anime- Where was Sailor Pluto?   10th May 2018, 1:14 am

D:

@Ktenshi How did I forget all of this?! You're absolutely right. So then we can establish that yes, not only can Pluto project a physical copy of herself but it is at least reasonable that she can do so backwards in time being the senshi of time. You know I really like this theory, I think you've nailed this one.

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[Debate] 90s SM Anime- Where was Sailor Pluto?

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