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 Breakup Arc: How fixable is it?

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An Ordinary Girl
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PostSubject: Breakup Arc: How fixable is it?   Breakup Arc: How fixable is it? I_icon_minitime27th December 2018, 7:54 pm

So, a lot has been written about the mostly unpopular break-up arc in Sailor Moon R.  I actually was unaware of anyone to whom the arc was popular until I discovered this old thread.

So, rather than rehash all that again here, my question is this: what do you think could/should/must have been done to make a break-up between our destined lovers work well, or at least better than the R arc? Or is the idea simply untenable?

For myself, it would've been nice to give the two a little more time together as an actual couple first.  Also, Mamoru needs an actual reason to break up.  He does bring up an excellent point: something like, 'Just because I was your boyfriend in a previous life, why do I have to now?'  But unfortunately, the show never expands on this thought.  

Maybe they could have had Usagi's foibles start to get on his nerves, which we could have been shown in a series of episodes before the break-up.  Building tension, and whatnot.  That would also leave the door open to a meaningful reunion - not just on a writer's whim to end the thing already.

So what do you all think?

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup Arc: How fixable is it?   Breakup Arc: How fixable is it? I_icon_minitime27th December 2018, 10:26 pm

So my thought on the breakup arc is that I don't necessarily mind Mamoru's actions. Like obviously talking it out would've been better, but this is a guy who has had very few close relationships in his life, so I can see him not making the best choices. I think in order to improve the arc, tho, giving Mamoru more of a struggle in making this decision (tho they somewhat try this by making him sorda gravitate to her anyways/the moonlight knight, but i feel like a more direct show could be used) or making the threat appear more... threatening (?). Like, Mamoru's dreams are meaningful and so the fact that it's telling this is actually something that shouldn't be ignored, but it;s just. Hmm, i feel like just a bigger emphasis on Mamoru's feelings of struggle and fear would make the arc more understandable. Because those feelings are there, but by putting so much focus on Usagi's reaction to Mamoru's action it just makes him seem like a jerk.

I think having a breakup built on Usagi getting on Mamoru's nerves is probably the worst way it could be done? At least with the break up arc as-is, it is Mamoru trying to protect Usagi, his heart is in the right place, but he's just really really bad at things. Hmmm, unless.... there was an issue with them like. They regain their memories and have unrealistic expectations on each other from their past life and expect things to naturally mesh because Miracle Romance, and then when they don't, they break things off... and then form a new relationship based off of actually loving each other's current selves, rather than because of past lives. That would be nice.

OH ALSO i forgot to mention my main problem with the breakup arc is King Endymion sending past-Mamoru the nightmares. If they were just honest nightmares, or something the enemy sent to try to break their bond, I think that would greatly improve it. Endymion's reasoning just makes 0 sense to me.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup Arc: How fixable is it?   Breakup Arc: How fixable is it? I_icon_minitime27th December 2018, 10:27 pm

An easy fix is making the person in Mamoru's dreams telling him to break up with Usagi be Wiseman or Demande, it would make more sense than King Endymion.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup Arc: How fixable is it?   Breakup Arc: How fixable is it? I_icon_minitime27th December 2018, 11:23 pm

Honestly, I'm with the others in this in that they could've added more weight to the situation to back up Mamoru's dreams.  Like having her life be in danger outside of Soldier form too.  Make it so that Usagi considers her relationship with him more before trying to get back with him and get the possibility that she may die just by being with him. 

I just wanted to see them explore the "Is it Destiny or is it Us?" Theme better. It would've made it way more meaningful when they do decide to be together.

Also, I'm with Spike on it being Wiseman.  Wiseman seems the most likely and most capable of doing that sort of manipulation. It's how he got Chibiusa into turning into Black Lady after all. The whole thing screams him and makes way more sense than King Endymion. (I also recall a fun fan-fic ages ago where King Endymion *meant* to send a warning but was uber jealous of his past-Self being with Usagi and it ended up being tweaked a bit.)

I also think another thing would improve if the Girls Were More Invovled.  I get it, it's a lovers' thing, but come on. The Inner Senshi have been through hell and back with those two and at least Rei and Ami know them extremely well enough to speak up about how it doesn't seem quite right. 
On top of that, you have Rei, who's also and very known to be pyschic, who could've helped him and them make sense of the entire thing. 

Like..guys.. you had the ability to either soften or at least made this an interesting character thing for everyone- not just Usagi and Mamoru- and did not do that.

I'm a big fan of the Inners not being violent as their first option for these things, and actually being/acting like friends to both Usagi and Mamoru and trying to figure out what happened.   Because 9/10- he's going to utterly confess what's going on to the other girls first. (Most likely Rei or Ami again. Because both seem to be a lot closer to him than Makoto and Minako.)

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup Arc: How fixable is it?   Breakup Arc: How fixable is it? I_icon_minitime28th December 2018, 7:44 am

@SpikeDevilman wrote:
An easy fix is making the person in Mamoru's dreams telling him to break up with Usagi be Wiseman or Demande, it would make more sense than King Endymion.

Okay, how did I never think of this before?  This makes perfect sense, Spike!

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup Arc: How fixable is it?   Breakup Arc: How fixable is it? I_icon_minitime28th December 2018, 8:54 pm

@cardea wrote:
[...]making the threat appear more... threatening (?). Like, Mamoru's dreams are meaningful and so the fact that it's telling this is actually something that shouldn't be ignored, but it;s just. Hmm, i feel like just a bigger emphasis on Mamoru's feelings of struggle and fear would make the arc more understandable. Because those feelings are there, but by putting so much focus on Usagi's reaction to Mamoru's action it just makes him seem like a jerk.

Omg YES! This, exactly!! And bringing in the suggestion about the dream being from Wiseman instead and having the girls more involved, it could have been also sent to Rei as well to make it seem a more legit threat. Maybe there would have to be some other way to unravel the truth at that point of course but I think it would end up being improved over all.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup Arc: How fixable is it?   Breakup Arc: How fixable is it? I_icon_minitime23rd January 2019, 6:11 am

Well, as much as I hate it, I think there would be a good place for a break-up arc, if done correctly. Firstly, I wouldn't place it in an area of the series where the couple just got back together, so R would not be the best place (they could've used BMC section of R for them to develop both the relationship of the couple and the relationship with Chibiusa). Maybe place it in S or SuperS, since people say the relationship really just staled by that point.

Secondly, make the actual threat credible. Not just simply create visions of death, but create a physical concern that being together is dangerous, like Usagi getting hurt trying to protect Tux, or (taking from Dream manga) Mamoru being ill with a curse and concerned passing it to Usagi (which it does).

And as Spike said, not have the visions come from King Endymion. It doesn't even have to be an enemy, if the threat is actually real. Just a vision as a passive ability, as a way to protect Usagi.

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PostSubject: Re: Breakup Arc: How fixable is it?   Breakup Arc: How fixable is it? I_icon_minitime23rd January 2019, 7:48 am

Their breakup has always felt rushed to me. I, too, would've preferred to see more time with them as a couple. It would have made the breakup even more meaningful.

I kind of feel like we never hear much about Mamoru's personal goals or dreams. It would be more interesting to me if they had mutually decided to part ways so that Mamo could go explore himself and his identity more, for example. Like, that he loves Usagi, but he also recognizes that this is a big commitment in a way he's not used to committing, and he needs time to come around to that engagement ring. More exploration of his character would have been much better than that dream nonsense in my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: Breakup Arc: How fixable is it?   Breakup Arc: How fixable is it? I_icon_minitime2nd February 2019, 11:09 am

They should have just deleted t from the anime I didn’t like it either

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