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 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions

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SeleneHime
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PostSubject: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   6th December 2012, 5:59 pm

Okay, for my English final, I'm actually supposed to "solicit" opinions from my peers and whatnot. I've got a couple points for my essay already, so now I need some outside points. Anything that comes to mind, I'm happy to hear it.

Quote :
Subject: The current attendance policy at MCC requires instructors to drop students who have reached a 25% absentee rate. Some would like administrators to abolish this policy. Should MCC abolish its attendance policy?

Stance: Against

Pros
Would allow students more chances to work on their homework and turn it in with higher quality.

For easier classes, it would allow full-time students to devote their efforts towards more extensive courses. Turning up for class, for something that may take twenty to thirty minutes, may not be worth their time.

Absences for medical or legal reasons wouldn’t go against a student’s final grade.

Cons
Would encourage students to skip class.
- In skipping class, students would miss important materials and discussions for their courses.

In terms of group projects, skipping class would mean missing details on how a project would go or the terms that the group would want to collaborate on.

Dedication and ability are shown to not be connected. Regardless of brightness of the student, absence shows a lack of dedication to schoolwork.
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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   6th December 2012, 6:16 pm

My opinion would be to abolish it, if a student has no interest in coming to class then as an adult they have that right, if they don't come, it will surely show through their grades anyway, wouldn't it? Only dedication, hard work, work ethic and effort will show merit and all that requires to put time into it. If the student doesn't put in the time, how would they reap the benefits.
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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   6th December 2012, 6:26 pm

Abolish it

Students who attend class regularly are generally more successful than those who do not show up. Being in class, the student is more capable of learning and absorbing the information given. The purpose of college is to learn, study and become educated. Most students cannot do any of these things without attending class regularly..

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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   6th December 2012, 6:33 pm

Abolish it. Things happen! cars break down, you get sick, you're busy trying to run over your cheating ex boyfriend... all of these things happen sometimes & you should be able to miss if you want!

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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   6th December 2012, 6:34 pm

Does anyone have any thoughts against abolishing? Both are good, but I also need some supporting arguments that are on my stance that aren't actually my own. Go figure. ^_^"
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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   6th December 2012, 6:37 pm

Well maybe it would make for a better class environment bc i know i hate when people skip. they could hold up the class.

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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   6th December 2012, 6:38 pm

"Truancy hurts us all" to quote Adventure Time

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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   6th December 2012, 6:48 pm

Very true!
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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   6th December 2012, 6:59 pm

what exactly is 25% like how many days would that be out of one semester?

I'd say I'm against abolishing it. After all, what's the point in taking lecture classes when you aren't even going to show up? I know there are always special cases, emergencies, ect. but shouldn't the student think about that before just taking "a sick day". Plus, if it's something like that wouldn't you want to contact your professor about how you had thus and such of an emergency?

I feel like the mean old principal saying this lol because I understand what everyone is saying because good students who do show up to class but need to skip to study or have an emergency may end up with the short end of the stick.

I think overall I'm not 100% for keeping the rule...I think that should be a teacher to teacher policy because some are more lenient than others.
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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   6th December 2012, 7:06 pm

Well, after tallying up the math, and an estimated 16-week course (for me), that means a student can miss roughly 8 days of class.

I do think that teacher-to-teacher would be better than having it campus-wide, though.
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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   6th December 2012, 7:09 pm

yeah that policy doesn't sound that bad... one of my 14 week courses, only allowed two days absence, after that you lost points with every absence.
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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   6th December 2012, 7:13 pm

I know. When my mom took LVN at a different campus, she was only allotted one day to miss. If she missed a second one, she was kicked out of the program.
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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   6th December 2012, 7:20 pm

i think i'd be for the policy if the percentage were raised a bit. maybe at least a 40 percent absense. if you don't have time for the course, ask to be removed from it or something, don't just skip it. it'd also allow the professor to focus on the students who want to be there and learn what the class is about. it'd also save paper! because they won't have to hand out so many forms of work that need filled out and such.

it's understandable that life happens, which is why i don't have a problem with having an alloted amount of miss days. but there's a point where it gets ridiculous.

a part of me kinda wishs we had some policy on the site where if a member were absent for an extended period of time...say a year and a half, their account would be deleted. they could recreate it later but it wouldn't be er...clogging up the system?

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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   6th December 2012, 7:23 pm

@Crystalsetsuna wrote:
i think i'd be for the policy if the percentage were raised a bit. maybe at least a 40 percent absense. if you don't have time for the course, ask to be removed from it or something, don't just skip it. it'd also allow the professor to focus on the students who want to be there and learn what the class is about. it'd also save paper! because they won't have to hand out so many forms of work that need filled out and such.

it's understandable that life happens, which is why i don't have a problem with having an alloted amount of miss days. but there's a point where it gets ridiculous.

a part of me kinda wishs we had some policy on the site where if a member were absent for an extended period of time...say a year and a half, their account would be deleted. they could recreate it later but it wouldn't be er...clogging up the system?

I agree, if you aren't going to show up don't waste your money and don't take a spot that someone else wanted.
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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   6th December 2012, 7:42 pm

I should be studying, but I saw this and wanted my say in this.


Sailor Pluto wrote:
Well, after tallying up the math, and an estimated 16-week course (for me), that means a student can miss roughly 8 days of class.

I do think that teacher-to-teacher would be better than having it campus-wide, though.

8 days? That's not bad. My school it's 6, but not all teachers follow that policy though. It depends on the department, but instead of dropping you they give you an F even if you are doing well in the class.

Honestly, I feel like instead of dropping you should get a F. Yeah people who skip will do poorly so whats the big deal? Well what if the teacher puts their material on the school's blackboard? So there's no point going to class so that person will just show up on test days (not all college classes give out homework). Because of that they'll get a F for the class for never showing up even if they did well on the tests. Stupid yes, but if you're going to pay to go to school then go to class! Yes life happens don't get me wrong, but skipping on purpose? Yeah, they're lame and should be punished.

Instead they should do what my school does. Drop people who don't show up for the first day of classes. It helps weed out those skippers and allows people who needed that class to get in.

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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   6th December 2012, 7:53 pm

Just as a thought, since I am currently sick with something that is likely contagious... sometimes absence policies encourage sick students to come to school (which results in other students/faculty/staff also becoming sick). For example, the student does not want to miss out on extra credit opportunity for good attendance, the teacher has not allowed for few absences or make-ups, that day's lesson is important, etc.

I actually wen to school the other day sick, but decided to leave about a quarter of the way through the class, because I was worried about getting my fellow graduate students sick right before finals.

At least in college, I've always had the thought that you are just wasting your own damn money if you don't show up to class.

This wouldn't be a good argument for a paper or anything, but it is pretty damn annoying trying to find a parking spot the last week of classes (including finals), because of all a sudden all of the skippers decide to show up and take all damn the parking spots.



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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   6th December 2012, 7:56 pm

Yamichan16 wrote:
I should be studying, but I saw this and wanted my say in this.


Sailor Pluto wrote:
Well, after tallying up the math, and an estimated 16-week course (for me), that means a student can miss roughly 8 days of class.

I do think that teacher-to-teacher would be better than having it campus-wide, though.

8 days? That's not bad. My school it's 6, but not all teachers follow that policy though. It depends on the department, but instead of dropping you they give you an F even if you are doing well in the class.

Honestly, I feel like instead of dropping you should get a F. Yeah people who skip will do poorly so whats the big deal? Well what if the teacher puts their material on the school's blackboard? So there's no point going to class so that person will just show up on test days (not all college classes give out homework). Because of that they'll get a F for the class for never showing up even if they did well on the tests. Stupid yes, but if you're going to pay to go to school then go to class! Yes life happens don't get me wrong, but skipping on purpose? Yeah, they're lame and should be punished.

Instead they should do what my school does. Drop people who don't show up for the first day of classes. It helps weed out those skippers and allows people who needed that class to get in.

I think my biggest issue with skippers is that they are wasting their money. Like skipping a day or two fine..but not showing up for weeks I don't get it. Also if you're someone who gets a FULL RIDE through school and just decides to never show up Imma hunt you down! >Sad
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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   6th December 2012, 8:00 pm

Ok here is my thought. I personally think it would be important to have a 75% attendence rate...

However, if the person wasn't there for medical reasons, he or she should have the choice to catch up with after class lessons to at least reach the 75% attendence rate. Could necessite a doctor paper or it could be determined as if the student has to pay an extra for it or not but it would definetely show and prove he or she really cares for his or her studies.

This would instantly eliminate those who weren't in class because they simply didn't want to attend.

And I believe people can be sick but... to miss over 25% attendence rate? If so, this truly is serious!

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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   6th December 2012, 9:16 pm

This is certainly a good start! I'm sorry that I haven't replied to each post individually, but I've got to head to bed so I can function tomorrow and still write my draft. *huggles.*

Feel free to continue discussion and post more pros/cons. I'm sifting through what I have, cutting, rearranging, and whatnot, so it's making my outlined arguments shorter.

Have a good night, and thank you! <3
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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   7th December 2012, 1:25 pm

Bump~.
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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   7th December 2012, 2:15 pm

I am against the idea of abolishing the attendance rate rule. I think that it is important for students to attend class, and if they aren't interested in coming to class more than 75% of the time, then why bother? It just brings the class back, and if a person misses a lot of classes, they most likely won't do well in the class anyway.

I do think that if a student has a legitimate doctor's note, that should give them some kind of leeway, but over all, I think there should be repercussions to not attending class. You're the one who signed up for the class, you should take the responsibility to show up and do your best.


(Sorry if this isn't articulated in the best way ^^;; hehe)

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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   7th December 2012, 2:27 pm

I know at my college each semester you can miss 4 days of class a semester otherwise the teacher will have to put you down as not attending. They did this to me due to my being in the hospital during finals. Something I could not control nor could the teachers since they were having to do as the school told them.

I can see both sides of it. I think that it should be a bit more relaxed verses completely done away with.

Yes, if a student doesn't want to go to class they won't go and Yes, some days you just need a "mental health day" regardless of the class and what's going on.

There is enough technology out now that student should have no reason NOT to get their work. Teachers can post class assignments online for the week, chapter readings etc so the student as no excuse to fall behind in class. Yes, if you are out you might miss something in class, but honestly, most of those don't count very much toward your grade.

I can completely understand where the school is coming from too. If the attendance is low then their funding is cut. So the more people they have attend the more money they get. It's that simple on their side of things.

But in a nutshell for now. They should be more relaxed about attendance with the understanding that things do come up especially if the student attends class as much as possible but has underlying commitments (Taking a parent or themselves to weekly doctors appointments, helping with children. things of that nature) Students that are trying should not be punished due to those that are lazy.

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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   7th December 2012, 4:59 pm

Verdandi wrote:
I am against the idea of abolishing the attendance rate rule. I think that it is important for students to attend class, and if they aren't interested in coming to class more than 75% of the time, then why bother? It just brings the class back, and if a person misses a lot of classes, they most likely won't do well in the class anyway.

I do think that if a student has a legitimate doctor's note, that should give them some kind of leeway, but over all, I think there should be repercussions to not attending class. You're the one who signed up for the class, you should take the responsibility to show up and do your best.


(Sorry if this isn't articulated in the best way ^^;; hehe)

I agree with having proof, like proof of a doctors note or proof you were in an accident, or you should email the teacher in advance saying you won't be there because..idk God forbid you have to go to a funeral or something.
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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   7th December 2012, 5:28 pm

Lovely Lexi wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
I am against the idea of abolishing the attendance rate rule. I think that it is important for students to attend class, and if they aren't interested in coming to class more than 75% of the time, then why bother? It just brings the class back, and if a person misses a lot of classes, they most likely won't do well in the class anyway.

I do think that if a student has a legitimate doctor's note, that should give them some kind of leeway, but over all, I think there should be repercussions to not attending class. You're the one who signed up for the class, you should take the responsibility to show up and do your best.


(Sorry if this isn't articulated in the best way ^^;; hehe)

I agree with having proof, like proof of a doctors note or proof you were in an accident, or you should email the teacher in advance saying you won't be there because..idk God forbid you have to go to a funeral or something.

I agree with you Lexi, while I am very often sick due my weak immunity system I can understand a student who gets put down just due health problems. I can see both sides of the situation but inn general I think I am more against the idea of abolishing the attendance rule. I pretty much go with the same things as Verdi said; some may not just be interested so why bother?

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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   7th December 2012, 6:25 pm

Gah! I haven't started my draft yet, and I was planning on having the rough one done. But after condensing all the like points, I only have 4/6. T_T

I'll post what I've got so far, maybe I'm just missing something painfully obvious.

Quote :
Introduction: With a sixteen week semester, standard attendance requirements allot a student to miss approximately eight classroom days per class. When those days are all used, the student is dropped from the class in question. Some would argue that the allotment either isn’t enough, or is entirely pointless.
Thesis: To maintain the 75% attendance rate would be for not only the best interest of the students, but also the teaching staff.

Opposing Argument: Abolishing the requirements of a 75% attendance rate would be in favor of students in general, allowing them more time to develop homework assignments and prepare for tests. Because of that, they would receive better grades all the way around.
Refutation or Concession: In contrast, however, for a student to skip classroom time means that they are also skipping time for discussion on problem areas, as well as potential bonus materials. Skipping would hurt a student more than it would benefit them, time-wise.

Opposing Argument: For easier classes, it would allow full-time students to devote their efforts towards more extensive courses. Turning up for class, for something that may take twenty to thirty minutes, may not be worth their time.
Refutation or Concession: Dedication and ability are shown to not be connected. Regardless of brightness of the student, absence shows a lack of dedication to schoolwork.

Opposing Argument: There have been leaps and bounds of improvement in technology, and with that, a teacher can post the week’s work online and a student would have no excuse to fall behind. Therefore, they shouldn’t be punished for not needing the classroom time.
Refutation or Concession: To take a lecture class and then refuse to show up for it entirely defeats the point of that teaching style, and considering it was the student that signed themselves up, they should take responsibility for themselves and maintain attendance.
- Students are wasting their own money by not using tuition fees to the fullest.

Opposing Argument: The absence penalties as they are not only encourage sick students to come, which in turn leaves both other students and teachers sick later, but are also unfair to students with full-time jobs. For those that truly try, it isn’t fair to punish them.
Refutation or Concession: Just as with students, the professors are human. In that, they would understand time constraints and likely offer ways to make up the grade.

Opposing Argument:
Refutation or Concession:

Opposing Argument:
Refutation or Concession:

[Pure supporting arguments: Fluff, but good.]
Additional Supporting Arguments: Group projects.
Additional Supporting Arguments:
Additional Supporting Arguments:

Conclusion: Restate thesis, review points.
Rather than completely abolishing the rule, it should simply be relaxed in order to allot for students that are actually trying. Punishing them for those that don’t care would be unfair to students who actually have unshakable commitments, such as working a full-time job or taking care of sick family, or even being sick themselves.
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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   7th December 2012, 6:38 pm

Hm, I know as an honors student I feel super stressed out if I miss a portion of a single class for a doctor's appointment or other school errand. I think it is important for students to attend school, pass their classes, and be prepared to either go into the work force, go to technical school, a four year college, what ever the case maybe, they will need these skills no matter what they do. Without a high school education, it is very hard to find a job because employers will think you are unreliable if you have quit high school.


We all need breaks from school. No one can just go full steam ahead all the time. Perhaps more short breaks are needed throughout the year to keep up attendance.

My teachers have brought up the point of having a reward such as the exemption of exams, with a A average in the class and 2 absences or a B in the class and 1 absence. When this privilege was given just to seniors, attendance rates plunged. Many have considered reinstating this privilege to all classes.

A friend of mine, who often skips school, has not been at school for two weeks straight now. She is smart but unmotivated. It makes me so sad that she just doesn't want to come but I know she could easily pass all of her classes if she applied herself. She has been going to school for eleven years, and is so close to being done. I just wish I had a way to encourage her.

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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   7th December 2012, 7:23 pm

Sorry about the delayed response, but you know why it was. *Thwaks essay.*

The point in particular about the reward system might be good to use as an additional argument on a compromise, though ... I could see that standing as a paragraph by itself, even by the 150+ minimum.

(*huggles.* I'm sorry to hear about your friend. Sad )
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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   7th December 2012, 7:33 pm

@Luna Nova wrote:
Hm, I know as an honors student I feel super stressed out if I miss a portion of a single class for a doctor's appointment or other school errand. I think it is important for students to attend school, pass their classes, and be prepared to either go into the work force, go to technical school, a four year college, what ever the case maybe, they will need these skills no matter what they do. Without a high school education, it is very hard to find a job because employers will think you are unreliable if you have quit high school.


We all need breaks from school. No one can just go full steam ahead all the time. Perhaps more short breaks are needed throughout the year to keep up attendance.

My teachers have brought up the point of having a reward such as the exemption of exams, with a A average in the class and 2 absences or a B in the class and 1 absence. When this privilege was given just to seniors, attendance rates plunged. Many have considered reinstating this privilege to all classes.

A friend of mine, who often skips school, has not been at school for two weeks straight now. She is smart but unmotivated. It makes me so sad that she just doesn't want to come but I know she could easily pass all of her classes if she applied herself. She has been going to school for eleven years, and is so close to being done. I just wish I had a way to encourage her.

I understand how your friend feels Luna, but my parents would never let me do that. This is me going off on a tangent, but I think some kids would benefit better from going to a Montessori school. I guess this would apply more to small children then adults because there aren't many "Middle School and High School" Montessori schools..but I think some kids work better on their own...learning at their own pace...my parents actually regret not putting me in a Montessori school...or at least private school since I exceeded many standards as a child..then in high school..all the structure...all the rules...it just was so... un-motivating... especially since they expect you to know what you want to do with you life career wise...in high school like as a freshman! I'm sorry for going off on a tangent here..as a psych major who's main area of interest is child development..I'm sort of thinking about growth..and motivation and such XD
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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   7th December 2012, 7:37 pm

There's nothing wrong with private schools. Both my grade school and my high school has structure and rules so it was so different. By they way what's Montessori school?

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PostSubject: Re: 75% Attendence Rate - Opinions   7th December 2012, 7:50 pm

Montessori schools are schools centered around self paced learning and letting psychological growth take it's course. Children basically learn on their own with little amounts of teacher intervention and classrooms usually are pretty mixed age wise. Instead of grade you may have children ages 3-6 in the same room together.
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