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 [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...

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SailorStar9
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[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Empty
PostSubject: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime26th September 2013, 1:46 am

Could he had fallen for Beryl?[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... 111859084
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Ktenshi
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[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Empty
PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime26th September 2013, 6:07 am

I'd say yes.  Beryl seems like she would've been an interesting match for him in someways.

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magic713
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[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Empty
PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime26th September 2013, 7:23 am

I don't think so. Someone who would be willing to sell her soul to the devil to get what she wants, does not exactly sound like a stable person. True, she might not have done it if Serenity and Endymion weren't together, but just the fact that she is capable, bring the question of mental health.

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[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Empty
PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime26th September 2013, 7:48 am

I'm not sure that Beryl and Endymion would have really been happy. Serenity and Beryl are so different, personality wise. Endymion and Serenity pair well because they have strengths and flaws that compliment, rather than clash.
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Ktenshi
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[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Empty
PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime26th September 2013, 10:50 am

@magic:  But, in PGSM- Princess Sailor Moon would've destoryed the entire -world- because she wasn't with Endymion. 

@ Aurae:  You can't know that Beryl wouldn't have been a good match or not for Endymion because we only know so little about her. We know nothing about her origin, her life before endymion.  We knew what Serenity's was. It's not really fair in comparison to them.

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[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Empty
PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime26th September 2013, 11:08 am

Ktenshi has a very valid point. I think it may have worked out (especially if they were together for political reasons but found a liking for each other anyway) but might not have been the romance that defys time, like the one between Endymion & Serenity.

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Lust
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[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Empty
PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime26th September 2013, 11:51 am

Well, for Starters, ChibiUsa would never have been reborn. Without the Silver Millennium being destroyed, there's a good possibility that she wouldn't have a reason to be reborn and all the Sailor Senshi as we know would never have existed. This is me assuming they have a very long life span like they would have in Crystal Tokyo. Princess Serenity would eventually become Neo Queen Serenity and her mother wouldn't have had to sacrifice her life. The Silver Crystal would be just as strong as ever with infinite power.

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[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Empty
PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime26th September 2013, 1:57 pm

I always believed that there was already feelings between both of them (both her for him, and him for her) before Princess Serenity ever even got into the picture. I don't believe that Beryl would have gone through what she went through simply because someone didn't love her back. I've always believe or headcanoned that Endymion showed interest to give Beryl hope before he met Princess Serenity, which is why Beryl always feels so betrayed and angry by the two of them. She believes Endymion belongs to her, and I don't see her getting that sort of belief unless it was true at one point or another.

So I think it's very possible that the two could have stayed together, perhaps ruling over Earth with one another.

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[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Y97whxc6[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Yc3hqps4[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Y9a8m54p[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Ycc3u8tl[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Yaarnsvz[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Yal54fl7[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Yda5mpfp
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Ktenshi
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[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Empty
PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime26th September 2013, 4:49 pm

Pretty much what Ver said which aligns rather nicely with my headcanon about Beryl over in the Headcanon thread.

I really do think that before P. Serenity was ever in the picture, that Endymion had or shown interest in Beryl for her to become that devoted to him or for her to get that idea. 

Manga wise- her dying words were "Prince Endymion.. I only wanted you."   <-  which seems to imply that she wasn't extremely interested in power but in Endymion, himself.  That even if she had the choice between giving up the power or giving up Endymion- she'd rather let power go if Endymion would love her.

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[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Empty
PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime26th September 2013, 5:48 pm

Hello loves. Just a little note that I am going to move this to the theories and debates section since odds are, this is going to turn into a lovely debate. ^^

Because, let's be honest here. WAS Beryl even WITH Endymion, ever, at all? Some myus say yes, but that's one continuity. That doesn't speak for every continuity of Sailor Moon. I mean, La Reconquista just said that Beryl was a member of the royal family. That wasn't mentioned, as far as I know, anywhere else. It's just stated that she was a sorceress. Sorceress =/= royal family necessarily. The most common theme is that Beryl loved Endymion from afar. So, Endymion may not have ever loved her/been with her/knew of her existence.

But at the same time, we don't know Beryl's true personality or if she was ever going to be in contact with Endymion.

Someone made a good point in saying in PGSM Serenity wanted to destroy the Earth if she couldn't be with Endymion. The fact that she committed suicide because he was dead and even in PGSM wanting to destroy the world, demonstrates very Beryl-like qualities. Those are very selfish and honestly that doesn't set Serenity and Beryl apart very much. I don't even know if I could say Beryl is more of an extreme case, either. I feel the playing field is pretty balanced.

One of my favorite things a good friend of mine on here (and I believe a few others) says: Usagi and Serenity are NOT the same person.

So, would he be with Beryl? Maybe. Maybe not. Could Endymion had shown some sort of interest, as mentioned above, to give Beryl hope? Perhaps.

Though this does lead to the question of: who would Endymion be with? Who would Serenity be with?

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Ktenshi
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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime26th September 2013, 11:39 pm

I think, if Endymion never met Serenity, he probably would have gotten with Beryl in some fashion OR he could've gotten with a noble woman.

As for Serenity, she probably would've ended up doing the same thing her mother did.  There's no real definitive proof that she ever had a father at all- and it lends itself to the possibility that maybe she could've just created an 'empty shell' of an infant and went to the galaxy cauldron herself.

(I mean hey, Before No52 in DC,  We all pretty much went with the whole, Wonder Woman was created from clay and blood/magic deal.   It's not that much of a stretch.)

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[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Empty
PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime27th September 2013, 12:46 am

Possibly, but not certain. No Serenity/Endymion relationship means no ammunition for Queen Metalia to turn Beryl evil and attack the moon, no moon attack means no death, no death no rebirth like Lust mentioned. Unless Endymion ended up breaking her heart some other way or Metalia finds someone else to use as a pawn. Interesting to think about.

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[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Empty
PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime27th September 2013, 5:39 am

We don't know nearly as much about Beryl as we do about Serenity, but we know they're different. Serenity wouldn't have made the same choices that Beryl has. I also think it's not an unreasonable assumption that Beryl's non-evil personality isn't too far from her current personality. Unlike some other villains, she is not possessed or brainwashed. She's taken a pretty active role in her current dark path.
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[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Empty
PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime27th September 2013, 6:57 am

actually she was possessed.  It's more clear during the battle in the manga that she -was- possessed by Metallia to kill Endymion.  She wouldn't have done it otherwise. It's also clear that Metallia does have the power to make people do things they clearly don't want to or are against. 
Also, we don't really know P. Serenity's personality outside of her mooning over Endymion or how her guardians mostly preceive her.  We don't know if she was like the PGSM version, who's actually pretty cold hearted towards everyone but Endymion.  

After all, what we see aren't unbais memories- they're all slanted because of the person telling it.

We only have few views of what happened (If going by the manga): Beryl, Sailor Venus, Awakened P. Serenity/Queen Serenity/Luna and Kunzite.
Normally this might be enough but it's not because they're all focused tightly on a certain period of time. 

We also don't hear about Endymion's side at ALL.
We don't know what he's like before he met P. Serenity.  We only know he was around the Shitennou and they were his guards.  We don't know if he knew Beryl or not.  if he -did- give her some hope or not. 

Also, Beryl- never once really- has ever expressed interest in the material things.  Like gold, jewels, what have you.  Sure she wants to rule the earth (which actually, there's no real passion there or reasoning for that. Why does she want to real it should be a better question. ), but first and formost she wants Endymion/be with Endymion/have Endymion's love.


-----------------------
As a character and what little I can see of him, Endymion strikes me as one of those progressive types that wants the best for his kingdom and people. He also seems like he would honestly try to keep his promises, if he made any- but unfortunately would also be the type to go with how he feels. Perhaps against tradition even. 

Considering this, I think as a couple, he and Beryl would've probably been interesting. Beryl seems the type to do anything for a cause she really, truly believes in. So while Endymion could talk the game and look the part, she'd be the one to really watch because she would amass power/coin for whatever he needs.  

They could be a real power duo in that. 


We shouldn't assume that the Silver Millennium -wouldn't- it.  It would, because Metallia probably could've found someone else just as easily.  Beryl was just the better Tool at that point and time.  There could've been one on the moon that possessed the same hatred/anger/jealousy or one one earth. 

Beryl was just the better option.

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[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Empty
PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime25th January 2015, 8:25 pm

if he didnt meet serenity he probably would have ended up with Beryl though w/o Serenity in the picture I wouls ship him with Puu.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime5th April 2015, 9:08 pm

I'd like to think he'd end up with Mars (anime wise) or Pluto (manga wise)

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime8th April 2015, 11:53 am

Think about what would also not have happened if Endymion had not met Serenity. If he hadn't met her, he also would likely not have met her guard. There would have not been any reason for Metalia to corrupt Beryl, since Beryl wouldn't have been jealous of Serenity, so the Four Generals would also not have been corrupted. The war with the Moon Kingdom could have been avoided, or could have at least been less catastrophic, and  Queen Serenity would not have had any reason for forcing  the reincarnation cycle for Serenity and the senshi.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime8th April 2015, 12:15 pm

Well, the moon kingdom may not have perished. Endymion would have stayed close to Beryl and would have given her no reason to go succumbing to metallia in a fit of jealous rage. 
However, this gives wiggle room for the moon kingdom to perish. I imagine some war between earth and the moon would have happened (if we go by what we were presented with in sailor moon, another story.) In a chance that this moon kingdom fell to this hypothetical threat, there is a chance that everyone would have been reborn and would fight against this new enemy. The only kicker, no Mamoru/Endymon and no chibiusa/time travel.

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[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Empty
PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime8th April 2015, 12:30 pm

@Cosmos-Hime wrote:
Well, the moon kingdom may not have perished. Endymion would have stayed close to Beryl and would have given her no reason to go succumbing to metallia in a fit of jealous rage. 
However, this gives wiggle room for the moon kingdom to perish. I imagine some war between earth and the moon would have happened (if we go by what we were presented with in sailor moon, another story.) In a chance that this moon kingdom fell to this hypothetical threat, there is a chance that everyone would have been reborn and would fight against this new enemy. The only kicker, no Mamoru/Endymon and no chibiusa/time travel.
That's very true. And Metalia could have found another way in, but if she hadn't, even if war had broken out between the Moon and Earth, I think It could have possibly been somewhat less volatile and could have been conducted through more civilized means with peace-talks and diplomats. But even if the Moon Kingdom did perish and the reincarnation cycle reboot, you're right, Endymion's soul would either not be a part of it or would have little to nothing to do with Sailor Moon. He could even be an enemy if the earth went to war with them moon, since as the Prince of Earth, he might have lead the army in this alternate universe.

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[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Empty
PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime8th April 2015, 12:35 pm

^That would be one heck of a hearbreaking AU, that's for sure. and I'd be all over that.

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[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Empty
PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime17th July 2015, 4:00 pm

I'm pretty darn sure that if Endymion hadn't met Serenity, then the whole Sailor Moon story would have never happened.

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PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime26th June 2016, 8:44 pm

bump

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[Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... Empty
PostSubject: Re: [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity...   [Debate] If Endymion had never met Serenity... I_icon_minitime26th June 2016, 8:55 pm

No...Beryl is a terrible person, let alone a villain. The world and universe will lose to her, so I'm glad the senshi are here...Endymion's true heart goes to one lady who never tries to destroy everything (like him in Beryl's rage).

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